“Showtime” stats are fools gold. 1st half numbers of the last 7 games:

bulldoghair

Well-known member
Jul 9, 2013
1,071
626
108
Half time score with our total yards:

Arizona St. 3-27. (82)
Toledo. 3-28. (150)
Florida. 14-28. (210)
Texas. 6-14. (165)
Georgia. 10-27. (130)
Texas A&M 17-21. (273) (2nd half- 80)
Arkansas. 10-31. (244)

Point being, what I said before the year started. That many would be fooled by inflated offensive numbers because most would be put up in when we’re behind multiple scores and in garbage time. If our defense was any good at all, our offense would be severely exposed for what it really is: Showtime at the Apollo.
 

bulldoghair

Well-known member
Jul 9, 2013
1,071
626
108
Half time score with our total yards:

Arizona St. 3-27. (82)
Toledo. 3-28. (150)
Florida. 14-28. (210)
Texas. 6-14. (165)
Georgia. 10-27. (130)
Texas A&M 17-21. (273) (2nd half- 80)
Arkansas. 10-31. (244)

Point being, what I said before the year started. That many would be fooled by inflated offensive numbers because most would be put up in when we’re behind multiple scores and in garbage time. If our defense was any good at all, our offense would be severely exposed for what it really is: Showtime at the Apollo.
Note to add- We also received the opening 1st half kickoff of all these games too.
 

PooPopsBaldHead

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2017
8,038
5,359
113
The offense works theoretically. Just can't finish and the coach is dumb as a box of rocks when it comes to 4th and short. In the first half we had 262 yards and no punts. Hell no punts in the whole game in fact.

2 turnover on downs, 2 field goals, a fumble, and a missed field goal. A stupid penalty at the 1" line and a horrible spot led to the lack of points in the first half. That's all coaching to me. Scheme and talent on offense are good enough, but fundamentals and common sense are garbage.

It feels like an undisciplined team that doesn't care that much if they lose. The coach can't seem to quit stepping on his own pecker and somebody needs to go Tonya Harding on the defensive coordinator.
 
Last edited:

8dog

Well-known member
Feb 23, 2008
12,379
3,359
113
Really like what we have done the last 3 weeks. We have scored more points on TAMU than anyone. And it was a close game the entire time. 24 at Athens before the third qtr in a 10 point game. 244 yds today in the first half - I don’t get how that proves your point. We just didn’t convert in short yardage and had critical turnover/penatly/missed FG. Thats more an anomoly to me.

I really like where the offense is headed. It’s a backup true freshman qb and a below average O line
 
Last edited:

The Cooterpoot

Well-known member
Sep 29, 2022
4,357
7,210
113
Half time score with our total yards:

Arizona St. 3-27. (82)
Toledo. 3-28. (150)
Florida. 14-28. (210)
Texas. 6-14. (165)
Georgia. 10-27. (130)
Texas A&M 17-21. (273) (2nd half- 80)
Arkansas. 10-31. (244)

Point being, what I said before the year started. That many would be fooled by inflated offensive numbers because most would be put up in when we’re behind multiple scores and in garbage time. If our defense was any good at all, our offense would be severely exposed for what it really is: Showtime at the Apollo.
Most of those conference games were close for the better part of the game. Learning curve for coach and players to start the year. The defense can't get off the field and we still put up numbers you damn fool. Oh, wait, it's Hair, who is a damn troll anyway. Wasted my time typing
 

Perd Hapley

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2022
3,637
3,910
113
I must be confused. Where are these “inflated offensive numbers”?

Entering yesterday, we were 87th nationally in points per game, and 100th in yards per play. That’s putrid, and is almost exactly where we were last year, in spite of bringing in a renowned OC as HC, and bringing in not one, but two QB’s who are both better than anyone we had on the roster last year.

This is easily the worst MSU football team I’ve seen in 40ish years on this planet….and we’ve had some bad ones. And its a bad team across the board. There’s not a single thing you can look at and say “yep, that gives reason for future optimism”.
 

HailStout

Well-known member
Jan 4, 2020
2,541
6,212
113
It feels like an undisciplined team that doesn't care that much if they lose. The coach can't seem to quit stepping on his own pecker and somebody needs to go Tonya Harding on the defensive coordinator.


I feel the need to point out that I have never understood why saying that someone steps on their own pecker is an insult. I would take out a billboard bragging about it if I ever did that.
 

MoronDawg

Member
Nov 26, 2022
61
73
18
I feel the need to point out that I have never understood why saying that someone steps on their own pecker is an insult. I would take out a billboard bragging about it if I ever did that.

Dude.

Thank you so much for your thoughtful comment.

I can shut it all down now.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: HailStout

bulldoghair

Well-known member
Jul 9, 2013
1,071
626
108
Most of those conference games were close for the better part of the game. Learning curve for coach and players to start the year. The defense can't get off the field and we still put up numbers you damn fool. Oh, wait, it's Hair, who is a damn troll anyway. Wasted my time typing
If you’re a major NIL funder I understand why you’re pissed. Just don’t be blindly pissed. Go back and reread my original post and think about it again. Look, you might think you’re smarter than everyone, cootertootie, for all I know you might even speak 16 languages. If so you gone need them when you in time square selling fake hats. I know gucci when I see it, *****I’m rich. I got a coalition of the willing! I got 40 nations ready to roll son!
 
  • Like
Reactions: OG Goat Holder

OG Goat Holder

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2022
8,185
7,787
113
If you’re a major NIL funder I understand why you’re pissed. Just don’t be blindly pissed. Go back and reread my original post and think about it again. Look, you might think you’re smarter than everyone, cootertootie, for all I know you might even speak 16 languages. If so you gone need them when you in time square selling fake hats. I know gucci when I see it, *****I’m rich. I got a coalition of the willing! I got 40 nations ready to roll son!
I really don’t get it. We have some relatively smart people who believe that this is some Croomy rebuild. And those same people now want to fire the DC. What about the rebuild? Does he not get the benefit of the doubt? Why didn’t Lebby bring him in some players like he did on offense? Does Lebby understand that head coaching is more than offense?

ETA: the Croom BS wasn’t as big of a rebuild as the Lenny Lovers are saying now either. Just something they tell themselves to make it seem better.
 
Last edited:

Howiefeltersnstch

Active member
Dec 28, 2019
697
858
78
I hate how bad our defense sucks but I'm not ready to blame it all on Hutzler and I don't really think canning him is all thst smart. Not sure what it helps. Maybe maybe if you got a sure thing lined up. It's tough and yes Lebby is at fault here also
 

patdog

Well-known member
May 28, 2007
49,001
13,119
113
I hate how bad our defense sucks but I'm not ready to blame it all on Hutzler and I don't really think canning him is all thst smart. Not sure what it helps. Maybe maybe if you got a sure thing lined up. It's tough and yes Lebby is at fault here also
How can you not fire him? His resume is awful for a defensive coordinator. This defense lacks talent for sure. But it may be the worst coached defense I've ever seen. He freaking played most of the game with 5 in the box against the #14 passing QB in the Big 12 while we gave up 346 yards rushing. He has no clue.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Doubledawgblitz

Howiefeltersnstch

Active member
Dec 28, 2019
697
858
78
You are not wrong but still.
How can you not fire him? His resume is awful for a defensive coordinator. This defense lacks talent for sure. But it may be the worst coached defense I've ever seen. He freaking played most of the game with 5 in the box against the #14 passing QB in the Big 12 while we gave up 346 yards rushing. He has no clue.
 

Howiefeltersnstch

Active member
Dec 28, 2019
697
858
78
I mean the whole thing is bullsh*t. Lebby yapping about showtime and we just now started showing some life. Honestly we struggle to score until we are down 14 points. The defense is a 17n joke. They can't tackle, can't get pressure and can't cover for sh*t. As I stated a few weeks back sh*tshow time. I'm not sure we will win again this year. The offense ain't exactly great ya know. 4th and 1 is an impossibility for some reason. It's just disgusting and all we can do is say " Well 17 it. Maybe next year" This year is shot up a wild hogs a$$ already. Then when signing day comes I bet we get another swift kick in the nuts. Who is coming to help ??? Hahaha. Zilch. UAB guys we poached
 

Bullldawg78

Well-known member
Aug 30, 2018
1,226
799
113
back to the future great scott GIF

Doc Brown just showed up at my place of work, I formed me that he traveled 10 years into the future and Jeff Lebby's at 50 looks just like this guy!
1730096644936.png
 
  • Haha
Reactions: OG Goat Holder

bulldoghair

Well-known member
Jul 9, 2013
1,071
626
108
I mean the whole thing is bullsh*t. Lebby yapping about showtime and we just now started showing some life. Honestly we struggle to score until we are down 14 points. The defense is a 17n joke. They can't tackle, can't get pressure and can't cover for sh*t. As I stated a few weeks back sh*tshow time. I'm not sure we will win again this year. The offense ain't exactly great ya know. 4th and 1 is an impossibility for some reason. It's just disgusting and all we can do is say " Well 17 it. Maybe next year" This year is shot up a wild hogs a$$ already. Then when signing day comes I bet we get another swift kick in the nuts. Who is coming to help ??? Hahaha. Zilch. UAB guys we poached
Exactly. Once you’re down multiple scores and the other team knows they are in total control of the game, then they are going to play you differently defensively.
 

TheStateUofMS

Well-known member
Dec 26, 2009
8,720
910
113
Half time score with our total yards:

Arizona St. 3-27. (82)
Toledo. 3-28. (150)
Florida. 14-28. (210)
Texas. 6-14. (165)
Georgia. 10-27. (130)
Texas A&M 17-21. (273) (2nd half- 80)
Arkansas. 10-31. (244)

Point being, what I said before the year started. That many would be fooled by inflated offensive numbers because most would be put up in when we’re behind multiple scores and in garbage time. If our defense was any good at all, our offense would be severely exposed for what it really is: Showtime at the Apollo.
You don't know how to read this data. This is just showing we have a scoring efficiency issue. The anecdotal would be watching us get stuffed on 4th and 1 multiple times trying to run the ball and turning the ball over on downs.

We put up plenty of yards in the first halfs to win games. We just don't score and our defense can't stop anyone. The only terrible offensive first half where we couldn't move the ball was game 1. We have horrible scoring efficiency on offense and defense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PooPopsBaldHead

TheStateUofMS

Well-known member
Dec 26, 2009
8,720
910
113
The offense works theoretically. Just can't finish and the coach is dumb as a box of rocks when it comes to 4th and short. In the first half we had 262 yards and no punts. Hell no punts in the whole game in fact.

2 turnover on downs, 2 field goals, a fumble, and a missed field goal. A stupid penalty at the 1" line and a horrible spot led to the lack of points in the first half. That's all coaching to me. Scheme and talent on offense are good enough, but fundamentals and common sense are garbage.

It feels like an undisciplined team that doesn't care that much if they lose. The coach can't seem to quit stepping on his own pecker and somebody needs to go Tonya Harding on the defensive coordinator.
Had a feeling you would understand how to read the numbers!
 

bulldoghair

Well-known member
Jul 9, 2013
1,071
626
108
You don't know how to read this data. This is just showing we have a scoring efficiency issue.
We put up plenty of yards in the first halfs to win games.
Yes I do. Sure we put up some yards in the first halves, but we’re usually down in score. The other team is in total control and they know it. They don’t play as aggressive on defense against us, or keep or rotate their players the same, and then they just tighten up when they have too. That all is the correlation to the yards we have compared to our scoring.
 

TheStateUofMS

Well-known member
Dec 26, 2009
8,720
910
113
Yes I do. Sure we put up some yards in the first halves, but we’re usually down in score. The other team is in total control and they know it. They don’t play as aggressive on defense against us, or keep or rotate their players the same, and then they just tighten up when they have too. That all is the correlation to the yards we have compared to our scoring.
You just said our stats are in garbage time and they aren't. Half our stats are coming in the first half. We're just not efficient at scoring. We get stuffed on 4th and 1 often and near the goal line. Talking about all your biases about aggression and stuff isn't how you support data claims.

The defense is the main reason we're losing. It's requiring the offense to play perfect.
 

ckDOG

Well-known member
Dec 11, 2007
8,379
2,795
113
I feel the need to point out that I have never understood why saying that someone steps on their own pecker is an insult. I would take out a billboard bragging about it if I ever did that.
You can't?
 

patdog

Well-known member
May 28, 2007
49,001
13,119
113
You don't know how to read this data. This is just showing we have a scoring efficiency issue. The anecdotal would be watching us get stuffed on 4th and 1 multiple times trying to run the ball and turning the ball over on downs.

We put up plenty of yards in the first halfs to win games. We just don't score and our defense can't stop anyone. The only terrible offensive first half where we couldn't move the ball was game 1. We have horrible scoring efficiency on offense and defense.
82, 150, 165, 130 is pretty pitiful for 1/2 of football. 210 is OK. 273 & 244 are pretty good, but as you say, not nearly enough points for those yards.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bulldoghair

TheStateUofMS

Well-known member
Dec 26, 2009
8,720
910
113
82, 150, 165, 130 is pretty pitiful for 1/2 of football. 210 is OK. 273 & 244 are pretty good, but as you say, not nearly enough points for those yards.
82 is pitiful, which I said. 150 is not pitiful for a first half. It's not great but you can still compete if you don't have a defense with any type of a pule. If that's your first half yardages, you have another half to do better as well as a good team gets stronger as the game goes on.

The OP said most of yards come in garbage time which make the offense look like fool's gold. That's not what the data shows.
 

patdog

Well-known member
May 28, 2007
49,001
13,119
113
82 is pitiful, which I said. 150 is not pitiful for a first half. It's not great but you can still compete if you don't have a defense with any type of a pule. If that's your first half yardages, you have another half to do better as well as a good team gets stronger as the game goes on.

The OP said most of yards come in garbage time which make the offense look like fool's gold. That's not what the data shows.
150, 165, and 130 are all pitiful for 1/2 of football. This isn't the 1980s any more. 150 yards in a half just won't get the job done. Not even close.
 

TheStateUofMS

Well-known member
Dec 26, 2009
8,720
910
113
For a first half if your defense shows up, it's not awful. If you get the same results in the second half, then your offense is awful.

Case in point: Missouri and Texas A&M avg 10 more yards per game than we do on offense. Both good teams. Tennessee averages less than us on offense, still a good team.

UGA averages 37 more yards per game than we do.

Our offensive yards, are NOT the problem. It's certainly not amazing, but we have played some great teams and have a freshman QB.
 

bulldoghair

Well-known member
Jul 9, 2013
1,071
626
108
You just said our stats are in garbage time and they aren't. Half our stats are coming in the first half. We're just not efficient at scoring.
And that’s the whole point of offense: SCORING.

We’re already behind multiple scores in the first half. Garbage time is being down multiple scores and the other team knows they are not threatened and are in total control. They tighten up when they have too. Fools gold brother.

It’s like playing one on one basketball in your driveway against your 10 year old son. You’re in total control, maybe allow him to make a few open jump shots ect, but you tighten up when you need too.
 
Last edited:

TheStateUofMS

Well-known member
Dec 26, 2009
8,720
910
113
You're moving the goalpost. Garbage time is late in the game when the backups are in.

The offense does enough to win games in terms of moving the football. They are however very inefficient when it comes to scoring. It's bad play calling from the last game and the fact we suck in short yardage run situations.
 

Bullldawg78

Well-known member
Aug 30, 2018
1,226
799
113
150, 165, and 130 are all pitiful for 1/2 of football. This isn't the 1980s any more. 150 yards in a half just won't get the job done. Not even close.
Agree, not a lot of games have winning teams with 300 total yards of offense these days .
 

The Cooterpoot

Well-known member
Sep 29, 2022
4,357
7,210
113
I hate how bad our defense sucks but I'm not ready to blame it all on Hutzler and I don't really think canning him is all thst smart. Not sure what it helps. Maybe maybe if you got a sure thing lined up. It's tough and yes Lebby is at fault here also
LOL
 

bulldoghair

Well-known member
Jul 9, 2013
1,071
626
108
You're moving the goalpost. Garbage time is late in the game when the backups are in.

The offense does enough to win games in terms of moving the football. They are however very inefficient when it comes to scoring. It's bad play calling from the last game and the fact we suck in short yardage run situations.
If that’s what you think, then evidently “garbage time” is subjective then. Either way we’re getting our *** kicked.

The reason we’re insufficient when it comes to scoring and short yardage situations, is because the other teams decides to tighten up when they need too. Again, it’s like playing your 10 year old son one on one in your driveway. Come on brother.
 
Last edited:

Perd Hapley

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2022
3,637
3,910
113
You just said our stats are in garbage time and they aren't. Half our stats are coming in the first half. We're just not efficient at scoring. We get stuffed on 4th and 1 often and near the goal line. Talking about all your biases about aggression and stuff isn't how you support data claims.

The defense is the main reason we're losing. It's requiring the offense to play perfect.
It’s not just scoring where the offensive efficiency sucks. We’re not efficient at moving the ball, either.

93rd nationally in yards per play. That’s awful. Here’s some comparison to where we finished in previous years that were not great offensively:

2018 / 2019 (Moorhead years):
48th and 52nd

2020 Leach’s first year / All SEC schedule: 105th

2023 with Arnett and Barbay:
105th

2021-2022 (Leach’s better years):
76th each year

This offense is not getting it done, period. Cumulative yards is a meaningless statistic in 2024…..totally ignores pace of play, length of scoring drives, and game script. Points per game and yards per play are the only raw numbers worth looking at when judging an offense, and we straight up suck at both.

Moorhead’s offenses were the quintessential “can move the ball but can’t score” type, but even those teams finished 80th and 76th in scoring offense. Not great at all, but in about the same ballpark as Leach’s 2021 team. Those are still 2 of the better offenses we’ve had in the past 7 years by any metric you can name, which is pretty sad to think about. Dude just couldn’t control the culture or the locker room, or else he might have been able to stay a little longer (but not much longer).
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 85Bears

TheStateUofMS

Well-known member
Dec 26, 2009
8,720
910
113
It’s not just scoring where the offensive efficiency sucks. We’re not efficient at moving the ball, either.

93rd nationally in yards per play. That’s awful. Here’s some comparison to where we finished in previous years that were not great offensively:

2018 / 2019 (Moorhead years):
48th and 52nd

2020 Leach’s first year / All SEC schedule: 105th

2023 with Arnett and Barbay:
105th

2021-2022 (Leach’s better years):
76th each year

This offense is not getting it done, period. Cumulative yards is a meaningless statistic in 2024…..totally ignores pace of play, length of scoring drives, and game script. Points per game and yards per play are the only raw numbers worth looking at when judging an offense, and we straight up suck at both.
We'll be fine on offense.
 

TheStateUofMS

Well-known member
Dec 26, 2009
8,720
910
113
If that’s what you think, then evidently “garbage time” is subjective then. Either way we’re getting our *** kicked.

The reason we’re insufficient when it comes to scoring and short yardage situations, is because the other teams decides to tighten up when they need too. Again, it’s like playing your 10 year old son one on one in your driveway. Come on brother.
No. When teams line up in shot gun on 4th and 1 and run into a stacked box they get stuffed. That's predictable and bad coaching.

There's been several times Lebby has gone for it on short yardage with a creative play and it worked out well. Lane Kiffin doesn't run it up the middle on 4th and 1 often.
 

bulldoghair

Well-known member
Jul 9, 2013
1,071
626
108
No. When teams line up in shot gun on 4th and 1 and run into a stacked box they get stuffed. That's predictable and bad coaching.

There's been several times Lebby has gone for it on short yardage with a creative play and it worked out well. Lane Kiffin doesn't run it up the middle on 4th and 1 often.
You’re all over the place with excuses with this. But just responding to this one comment, objectively speaking, and in general, if you can’t get one yard most times than not, when you want too or need it, then you’re offense isn’t very good.
 

bulldoghair

Well-known member
Jul 9, 2013
1,071
626
108
No. When teams line up in shot gun on 4th and 1 and run into a stacked box they get stuffed. That's predictable and bad coaching.

There's been several times Lebby has gone for it on short yardage with a creative play and it worked out well. Lane Kiffin doesn't run it up the middle on 4th and 1 often.
 
Get unlimited access today.

Pick the right plan for you.

Already a member? Login