About the trick play Clemson pulled on the fumbled kick return

[18IsTheMan]

After Shipley fielded the kick, he ran up and huddled with 4 other Clemson players. Our guys eased up, not knowing who would have the ball. Would it have been legal for a couple of our players to have just run full steam into the Clemson players as they were huddled up before the handled the ball off? It obviously worked out to our advantage anyway, but looking at the replay, I was just curious if if they huddle up like that, and you're close enough, if you can just barrel in and knock the snot out of them. Our guys were about 5 yards away when Shipley huddled up and eased up at that point.

 

[Rogue Cock]

Good question...if we did hit them, would it be a block in the back? How the heck would you know who had the ball and who you could or couldn't hit?

 

[Augusta_Gamecock33]

A buddy of mine also advised that it was an illegal forward pass and shouldn't have been allowed anyways, but it worked out for us. What a boneheaded play call. haha

 

[18IsTheMan]

Good question...if we did hit them, would it be a block in the back? How the heck would you know who had the ball and who you could or couldn't hit?

That's what I was wondering. It would seem to me, if the return team is intentionally concealing who has the ball, then it should be fair game. With them huddled up like that, how would the refs know who had the ball at the time of the hit?

 

[18IsTheMan]

A buddy of mine also advised that it was an illegal forward pass and shouldn't have been allowed anyways, but it worked out for us. What a boneheaded play call. haha

I wondered about this. If an illegal forward pass, would that negated the fumble call?

 

[Shagginrooster]

A buddy of mine also advised that it was an illegal forward pass and shouldn't have been allowed anyways, but it worked out for us. What a boneheaded play call. haha

A forward hand off IS illegal. Thank goodness the refs did not think Shipley was handing it forward. However clemson is very familiar with a forward hand off behind the line of scrimmage.....

 

[Shagginrooster]

I wondered about this. If an illegal forward pass, would that negated the fumble call?

Yes, but it was clearly a hand off and not a forward pass.

 

[TopHook]

A buddy of mine also advised that it was an illegal forward pass and shouldn't have been allowed anyways, but it worked out for us. What a boneheaded play call. haha

Still don't believe it was a pass. It fell out of his arms.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Still don't believe it was a pass. It fell out of his arms.

It was really hard to tell. Live speed, I thought he was trying to throw it forward and thought "that's pretty stupid." On replay it looks more like a fumble.

 

[Shagginrooster]

Still don't believe it was a pass. It fell out of his arms.

I thought they were referring to the exchange between Shipley and the guy who ultimately fumbled. No way that guy was trying to throw a pass with Jeter wrapped around his ankle. That was a fumble all the waay. Refs threw the bean bag, not a yellow flag. Had the refs thought it was a lateral attempt, yes they SHOULD have thrown a flag. And I do believe that would have negated our recovery and been a dead ball at that spot.

 

[Mauze1]

Yes, but it was clearly a hand off and not a forward pass.

Forward laterals are now called illegal forward pass. Either way, they are not legal.

 

[Shagginrooster]

Forward laterals are now called illegal forward pass. Either way, they are not legal.

That was my point. I don't see where I used the term "forward lateral." If the refs thought clemson was attempting a lateral there at the end of the kick return, they would have thrown a flag for an illegal forward pass. The refs called it correctly with the bean bag.

 

[Mauze1]

That was my point. I don't see where I used the term "forward lateral." If the refs thought clemson was attempting a lateral there at the end of the kick return, they would have thrown a flag for an illegal forward pass. The refs called it correctly with the bean bag.

Correct, I am the one who said “forward lateral” saying, I don’t believe they use that term anymore. I think it’s an illegal forward pass. And, they absolutely did lateral the ball from Shipply to to guy who fumbled it. But it was legal because it was backwards.

 

[Shagginrooster]

Correct, I am the one who said “forward lateral” saying, I don’t believe they use that term anymore. I think it’s an illegal forward pass. And, they absolutely did lateral the ball from Shipply to to guy who fumbled it. But it was legal because it was backwards.

Here is the replay. I sure can't tell that Shipley tossed the ball as he was that close to Mafa. Even the announcers called it a handoff. I think that it would be a stretch to call that an illegal forward pass. Absolutely a handoff with the second view from the end zone at the back of their cute little scrum.

 

[HTCock]

My favorite part was Todd calling him Mafu on this play and all others! He also had a very creative pronunciation of DJ’s last name. Loved watching the synched up broadcast on YouTube!

 

[Lakecock1]

Here is the replay. I sure can't tell that Shipley tossed the ball as he was that close to Mafa. Even the announcers called it a handoff. I think that it would be a stretch to call that an illegal forward pass. Absolutely a handoff with the second view from the end zone at the back of their cute little scrum.

Shipley became a runner when he fielded the ball. According to the NCAA rule book, a runner cannot hand the ball off to a player in front of him. This wasn't an illegal forward pass. It was an illegal forward handoff.

 

[The Reel Ess]

nm

 

[KingWard]

Good question...if we did hit them, would it be a block in the back? How the heck would you know who had the ball and who you could or couldn't hit?

Well, any blockers would have had to be UPC players as long they possessed the ball, would they not? Busting up that bunch wouldn't be any different than busting up a wedge of blockers on a regular kickoff return, would it?

 

[Cowboy12]

Thought there should have been a flag because he handed the ball forward. Glad there wasn’t

 

[KalamaCock]

After Shipley fielded the kick, he ran up and huddled with 4 other Clemson players. Our guys eased up, not knowing who would have the ball. Would it have been legal for a couple of our players to have just run full steam into the Clemson players as they were huddled up before the handled the ball off? It obviously worked out to our advantage anyway, but looking at the replay, I was just curious if if they huddle up like that, and you're close enough, if you can just barrel in and knock the snot out of them. Our guys were about 5 yards away when Shipley huddled up and eased up at that point.

Good question. But I think the play was conceived around 1898, kind of like the flying wedge.

 

[KingWard]

Thought there should have been a flag because he handed the ball forward. Glad there wasn’t

It WAS handed forward - TWICE!

 

[Hobcawcreekcock]

Two huge issues
1. Mafah is not a normal ST player according to many. Why is he handling a ball on a KO return?
2. The genius that Dabo is, he stole this ‘cute little sandlot’ play from the movie “The Little Giants”. Lembo would NEVER scout a kid’s movie to delve into possible ST plays. Absolute genius!!!

 

[The Reel Ess]

Would it have been legal for a couple of our players to have just run full steam into the Clemson players as they were huddled up before the handled the ball off? It obviously worked out to our advantage anyway, but looking at the replay, I was just curious if if they huddle up like that, and you're close enough, if you can just barrel in and knock the snot out of them.

I've always wondered the same about the read run option, where the QB can keep the ball and run or hand off to the RB depending on how the unblocked DE/OLB reacts to the play. Why can't the DE just cream the QB every time until that team decides it's not beneficial for them to run the play anymore? I mean the QB is a possible ball carrier every time with the read run.

 

[GboCOCK]

Blasting one of the huddle guys in the back when they don’t have the ball would seem to me to be a personal foul.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Blasting one of the huddle guys in the back when they don’t have the ball would seem to me to be a personal foul.

But if they're using trickery like that, deliberately concealing who has the ball, does that change anything? Further, how would the refs know who even had the ball at the time of the hit?

 

[Gamecock Disciple]

How often have we seen a penetrating defensive player blow up the play so quickly that he is in the backfield and tackles BOTH the QB and RB as he is not sure who has the ball?!? I see this no differently ... the art of deception on the part of the offense (or the return team, in this case) and based on this, contextually, I believe the referee's would not throw a flag if it were not obvious if the person did NOT have the ball ... my humble thoughts ...

 

[Shagginrooster]

Blasting one of the huddle guys in the back when they don’t have the ball would seem to me to be a personal foul.

I think you could tackle all four or five in the scrum with no penalty, if your guys got there at the time of the handoff.

 

[Rogue Cock]

Well, any blockers would have had to be UPC players as long they possessed the ball, would they not? Busting up that bunch wouldn't be any different than busting up a wedge of blockers on a regular kickoff return, would it?

I thought about that...but the difference I see is in a wedge the defenders are facing each other, so no blocking in the back.

 

[Thunderstick]

My favorite part was Todd calling him Mafu on this play and all others! He also had a very creative pronunciation of DJ’s last name. Loved watching the synched up broadcast on YouTube!

Does one really expect Todd to get the names (or yard lines) correct?

 

[Rogue Cock]

But if they're using trickery like that, deliberately concealing who has the ball, does that change anything? Further, how would the refs know who even had the ball at the time of the hit?

That's the issue....how would they call it? I have never seen this before, so I'm not sure there is anything in the rules that would address. it.

 

[18IsTheMan]

This guy calls the Mafah fumble a forward lateral. It sure looked like that's what he was trying to do.

Video: Clemson Runs Dumbest Trick Play Ever Against South Carolina

The Clemson Tigers ran one of the worst trick plays you'll ever see against South Carolina and immediately backfired.

www.outkick.com

 

[Mauze1]

Here is the replay. I sure can't tell that Shipley tossed the ball as he was that close to Mafa. Even the announcers called it a handoff. I think that it would be a stretch to call that an illegal forward pass. Absolutely a handoff with the second view from the end zone at the back of their cute little scrum.

Bear with me. I’m not good at expressing myself. LOL. Not sure they use the term “ forward lateral“ anymore. Thanks for the clip. When Shippley hands to ball off, laterals it or passes it; it has to be backwards. It’s because they are in “open field.” Meaning, there is no line of scrimmage or they were past the line of scrimmage. When the ball was passed from one player to the other; was it forward/sideways, or backward? Does that make any sense?

 

[Shagginrooster]

Bear with me. I’m not good at expressing myself. LOL. Not sure they use the term “ forward lateral“ anymore. Thanks for the clip. When Shippley hands to ball off, laterals it or passes it; it has to be backwards. It’s because they are in “open field.” Meaning, there is no line of scrimmage or they were past the line of scrimmage. When the ball was passed from one player to the other; was it forward/sideways, or backward? Does that make any sense?E

Edit - Correction & apology:
A forward handoff is not legal on a kick/punt return because it is not behind the line of scrimmage. Shipley's handoff was definitely close to being forward but apparently the refs deemed it lateral or legal and not forward. My apologies Mauze1.

clemson is now on the laughing side of two of the most infamous forward handoff plays in college football history....

Also FSU Fumblerooski

 

[KingWard]

A forward handoff is legal on any play, whether on a kick/punt return or on an offensive play from the line of scrimmage. If the ball is tossed in the air, it is no longer a handoff and is subject to "forward" or "backwards/lateral" limitation rules.

clemson is now on the laughing side of two of the most infamous forward handoff plays in college football history....

Also FSU Fumblerooski

The handoff on the Punt Rusky play occurred entirely behind the line of scrimmage. Are you saying that the line of scrimmage isn't a factor on handoffs?

 

[Shagginrooster]

@KingWard and @Mauze1 My apologies I just thought I knew that rule. I was wrong.
I was going to copy and paste but I got a nasty message about who owned that text.

Football Illegal Forward Handoff Penalty

www.rookieroad.com

Lucky for us the refs did not rule that a forward handoff.

 

[Silverspur02]

Does one really expect Todd to get the names (or yard lines) correct?

As long as we win the game, I don't care if he calls them Mofo's or not. I just enjoy that he has a passion for Gamecock football.

You people that want that "professional" Charley MacAlexander back can go suck an egg...

 

[WingchunCock]

Does one really expect Todd to get the names (or yard lines) correct?

Or call the play in time with what is transpiring? He seems to be on a permanent 2 second delay…

 

[Lakecock1]

Well, any blockers would have had to be UPC players as long they possessed the ball, would they not? Busting up that bunch wouldn't be any different than busting up a wedge of blockers on a regular kickoff return, would it?

Wedge blocking is a penalty.

 

[Lakecock1]

The handoff on the Punt Rusky play occurred entirely behind the line of scrimmage. Are you saying that the line of scrimmage isn't a factor on handoffs?

The line of scrimmage is irrelevant provided the runner either hands the ball off or laterals the ball to another player who is not in front of him.

Plus this was not similar to the Punt Rooskie that has been banned by the NCAA since 1992. When Shipley fielded the ball, he became a 'runner' by definition according the NCAA rule book. And, as a runner, he can only hand a ball off laterally or behind him - NOT forward.

 

[KingWard]

The line of scrimmage is irrelevant provided the runner either hands the ball off or laterals the ball to another player who is not in front of him.

Plus this was not similar to the Punt Rooskie that has been banned by the NCAA since 1992. When Shipley fielded the ball, he became a 'runner' by definition according the NCAA rule book. And, as a runner, he can only hand a ball off laterally or behind him - NOT forward.

But a quarterback in the shotgun could hand the ball off to a runner passing in front of him because both are behind the line of scrimmage. Downfield, he couldn't do that. Is that correct?