Haley's FY 13 budget includes consolidation of colleges
- Thread starter Indndawg
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At risk of turning this into a political thread, I long for the day when Mississippi allows a little common sense to invade the state government. The state really does have hold a good bit of promise if only we could get past the good ole boy way of doing things. I guess the same thing could be said for the US as a whole though.
But I suppose it's easier to choose a college than a school district. Both are too top-heavy in MS.<div class="ugdv_contextMenu" id="ugdv_myMenu" style="display: none; "><ul id="ugdv_contextMenu">[*]Open in Google Docs Viewer[*]Open link in new tab[*]Open link in new window[*]Open link in new incognito window[*][*]Download file[*]Copy link address[*]Edit PDF File on PDFescape.com[/list]</div><div id="ugdv_jqContextMenu"></div><div></div>
I have family in Vardaman which I visit regularly.There areVardaman, Calhoun City, and Bruce High School all within a short distance of each other and none of them are big enough to field a decent sized band, sports teams, quality labs, etc... Not to mention redundant administration. Seems rediculous.
Mississippi has a large minority populous so closing Alcorn will never happen regardless of my opinion but if I was king for a day, I'd shut'er down...........
Even at the college level, if the colleges were kept as campuses of some others, that would cut a great deal of the fat from the administration.
At the High School level, it's tough for a Clinton guy to say that Clinton schools should get sucked into Hinds County, but that's definitely the types of decisions that have to be made, especially when the schools are struggling.
Edit: Yuku's editor hatin' on Chrome
At the High School level, it's tough for a Clinton guy to say that Clinton schools should get sucked into Hinds County, but that's definitely the types of decisions that have to be made, especially when the schools are struggling.
Edit: Yuku's editor hatin' on Chrome
However, that is not likely anytime soon. I do think you could see DSU/MVSU merge together, or form a "partnership."
but it'll never happen because it makes too damn much sense. This is the problem when you let public officials get too numerous: to trim fat, you essentially cut jobs and no one wants to be "that guy". Same reason it'll never happen in the fed govt.<div>Close them schools that are essentially not making it. I just never understood why the state should be forced to keep the doors open on the poorer schools. If the state is to finance their poor financial issues, the state should be able to come in and clean house the way they want to. </div><div>Sad thing is that if anyone touches the black schools, racism will be decried and ole Jesse and Al will be down here quicker than if you said you were giving them a million bucks.</div><div>Could you imagine the national news when ASU, MVSU, or JSU are closed or combined with one of the larger schools? MS would get raked thru the coals.</div><div>Good luck, Guv! I hope your successor follows thru with your plan.</div>
S
Sauron
Guest
Honestly, we don't need a billion JUCOs in Mississippi.Every rural community in the state doesn't need a junior college. To the people who teach there, it aint the Mississippi taxpayer's fault that you were too lazy to get a PhD.
JUCOs make a helluva lot more sense for Mississippi and its average public high school grad than most of our 4-year schools. Eliminating or cutting JUCOs would be a mistake, IMO.
http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/assets/pdf/DB1830961220.PDF
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</div><div><div>"To achieve the savings contemplated for community colleges, I again recommend</div><div>eliminating $3 million in state funds spent on community college athletics. Mississippi</div><div>community colleges spend more than $23 million in state, local and student fees</div><div>combined to fund athletics. Private funds and campus boosters can support these</div><div>activities if an institution desires. Local governments may choose to support community</div><div>college athletics, and student fees to support athletics should be at the students’ option.</div><div>There are more than 1,100 community and junior colleges in America, but there are only</div><div>70 football members of the National Junior College Athletic Association. Of those, 15 are</div><div>in Mississippi. In a time when resources are scarce, it is difficult to justify spending</div><div>millions in tax dollars on the field of play.</div><div>Likewise, universities should rely less on state funds to pay for athletic costs. While</div><div>some universities use virtually no state funds to support their athletic programs, other</div><div>universities aren’t as prudent. I believe universities should save at least ten percent on</div><div>athletic costs, with a goal of eliminating within five years their reliance on tax dollars to</div><div>pay for these athletic programs. Student fees that are used to support athletics should be</div><div>at the students’ option, too."</div></div>
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</div><div><div>"To achieve the savings contemplated for community colleges, I again recommend</div><div>eliminating $3 million in state funds spent on community college athletics. Mississippi</div><div>community colleges spend more than $23 million in state, local and student fees</div><div>combined to fund athletics. Private funds and campus boosters can support these</div><div>activities if an institution desires. Local governments may choose to support community</div><div>college athletics, and student fees to support athletics should be at the students’ option.</div><div>There are more than 1,100 community and junior colleges in America, but there are only</div><div>70 football members of the National Junior College Athletic Association. Of those, 15 are</div><div>in Mississippi. In a time when resources are scarce, it is difficult to justify spending</div><div>millions in tax dollars on the field of play.</div><div>Likewise, universities should rely less on state funds to pay for athletic costs. While</div><div>some universities use virtually no state funds to support their athletic programs, other</div><div>universities aren’t as prudent. I believe universities should save at least ten percent on</div><div>athletic costs, with a goal of eliminating within five years their reliance on tax dollars to</div><div>pay for these athletic programs. Student fees that are used to support athletics should be</div><div>at the students’ option, too."</div></div>
Clinton can stand alone as it's own school district as it currently stands. They are big enough to reasonably do that.
Schools like Alcorn Central and Corinth for example, would be the ones that should merge.
Schools like Alcorn Central and Corinth for example, would be the ones that should merge.
Mobile County works well with a metro school system. Lots and lots of politics involved with consolidations though ... that's when parochialism really rears its head.<div>
</div><div>Personally, at least where I live in Madison County, AL, I'd like to see the several school systems merged as well as a metro government established. And why do we need both police forces and a sheriff? Just have one county-wide, or even multi-county in the same metro area, police force and eliminate the sheriff department.</div><div>
</div><div>Closing school buildings can create problems though ... you get overcrowding in the ones you consolidate to ... and you've still got to pay utilities, upkeep, and security services for the shuttered buildings. That adds up ... planning has to be done correctly.</div>
</div><div>Personally, at least where I live in Madison County, AL, I'd like to see the several school systems merged as well as a metro government established. And why do we need both police forces and a sheriff? Just have one county-wide, or even multi-county in the same metro area, police force and eliminate the sheriff department.</div><div>
</div><div>Closing school buildings can create problems though ... you get overcrowding in the ones you consolidate to ... and you've still got to pay utilities, upkeep, and security services for the shuttered buildings. That adds up ... planning has to be done correctly.</div>
The community colleges provide more at a lower cost than the IHL universities and they're the designated workforce development agencies for the state.
...is a response by the jucos to emphasize providing opportunities to more Mississippians so that it would deflect Barbour's proposal.
Consolidate districts? Yes definitely. Schools..no. Combining Districts spreads out red tape cost of Supintendents, Asst Sup, secretaries for each, IT support, Purchasing, Maintenance and the such. Lots of slop in District offices.
Keeping schools smaller (and not consolidating) should actually be good for the student. Smaller school population should allow more opportunites for the students to get more teacher attention (smaller classes) and more opportunities to be involved in extra-curricular activities. Combine Vardaman, Calhoun City, and Bruce and you just eliminated 2 starting QBs, Shortstops, point guards, #1 Debate team, #1 Trombone etc..... Combine the schools and maybe some kids never try out for a certain sport and miss out on learning how to be part of a team atmosphere. Worse, you start bussing kids to an area where they dont live and it opens up more opportunity for some kids to go astray when at a young age they need to be growing up in their local community amongst the people they see every day...not 10 miles down the road. Aside of poor parenting, education in local schools is losing because of the hammer and redtape from bureacrats from above. Need to head back to the local community wanting to have successful schools and to be involved with their schools for life. And while I am bellyaching...give power back to the principals. They have been beaten down to puppet status in most areas. And track the success of a school by what its graduates are doing 2-4 years down the road. Did they advance to college, JC and pass or are they gainfully employed on a career path? Harder to track than the "test" they teach to but it would be a better guage of success of the school and community. Keep schools small and in their community, hire good teachers (not the clock watchers) and put the principals back in charge and education would improve.
Keeping schools smaller (and not consolidating) should actually be good for the student. Smaller school population should allow more opportunites for the students to get more teacher attention (smaller classes) and more opportunities to be involved in extra-curricular activities. Combine Vardaman, Calhoun City, and Bruce and you just eliminated 2 starting QBs, Shortstops, point guards, #1 Debate team, #1 Trombone etc..... Combine the schools and maybe some kids never try out for a certain sport and miss out on learning how to be part of a team atmosphere. Worse, you start bussing kids to an area where they dont live and it opens up more opportunity for some kids to go astray when at a young age they need to be growing up in their local community amongst the people they see every day...not 10 miles down the road. Aside of poor parenting, education in local schools is losing because of the hammer and redtape from bureacrats from above. Need to head back to the local community wanting to have successful schools and to be involved with their schools for life. And while I am bellyaching...give power back to the principals. They have been beaten down to puppet status in most areas. And track the success of a school by what its graduates are doing 2-4 years down the road. Did they advance to college, JC and pass or are they gainfully employed on a career path? Harder to track than the "test" they teach to but it would be a better guage of success of the school and community. Keep schools small and in their community, hire good teachers (not the clock watchers) and put the principals back in charge and education would improve.
is the effect it has on honors opportunities. I attended Walthall County Public Schools for a couple of years, and only one of the three high schools in the district at that time was able in terms of faculty and interest to offer an honors math track. I was planning to transfer the following year to that school by a loophole, just so I could take advanced math. Such things affect multiple grades (e.g. AP Calculus students have to take every math class a year ahead of schedule) and are hard for smaller schools to maintain. Not that I disagree with anything you said, but there are some problems with keeping schools small.
The rest of the story: A couple of years ago, Walthall County was charged with being segregationist, because they were allowing students to transfer to that smaller high school (Salem) that had the better math program. I don't have any inside knowledge on all of that, but I know I would have taken advantage of the opportunity for totally academic reasons. The distribution of honors students appears segregated, but is necessarily based on test performance. You can see the same trends reflected in larger districts in the way they have to "pool" students and teachers to provide honors offerings. Not sure if it's a "problem", depending on whom you ask, but it's certainly something smaller schools spanning broader districts have to address, especially when it comes to trying to excel.
The rest of the story: A couple of years ago, Walthall County was charged with being segregationist, because they were allowing students to transfer to that smaller high school (Salem) that had the better math program. I don't have any inside knowledge on all of that, but I know I would have taken advantage of the opportunity for totally academic reasons. The distribution of honors students appears segregated, but is necessarily based on test performance. You can see the same trends reflected in larger districts in the way they have to "pool" students and teachers to provide honors offerings. Not sure if it's a "problem", depending on whom you ask, but it's certainly something smaller schools spanning broader districts have to address, especially when it comes to trying to excel.
our esteemed legislators would just find more ways to squander it. I bet if this happened the next day they would vote to quadruple their pay, in a sense, making any merges or closings a moot point. Personally, if they are going to 17 something up I would rather it not be our higher education system. </p>
...I would like to see (the state of) Alabama consolidate Auburn, Alabama, UAB, South Alabama, etc. first, then let's see how that works out.
I want to see all the Bear Bryant sheep & Cam Newton worshippers agree to compromise the unique identities of Bama & Auburn. This, just so some politicians can use college & university consolidation as a guinea pig for their austerity measure experiment.
If (state of) Alabama is able to come up with a centralized university that manages to include the football traditions of Auburn & Alabama without setting off street riots among the Bama & Auburn faithful, then possibly we could consider doing the same thing in Mississippi.
Of course, Haley Barbour's vision is seeing all the other (state of Mississippi) universities being obsorbed into Ole Miss. Haley Barbour is a living embodiment of everything Ole Miss holds sacred. Take that into consideration as you ponder this ******** proposal.
I want to see all the Bear Bryant sheep & Cam Newton worshippers agree to compromise the unique identities of Bama & Auburn. This, just so some politicians can use college & university consolidation as a guinea pig for their austerity measure experiment.
If (state of) Alabama is able to come up with a centralized university that manages to include the football traditions of Auburn & Alabama without setting off street riots among the Bama & Auburn faithful, then possibly we could consider doing the same thing in Mississippi.
Of course, Haley Barbour's vision is seeing all the other (state of Mississippi) universities being obsorbed into Ole Miss. Haley Barbour is a living embodiment of everything Ole Miss holds sacred. Take that into consideration as you ponder this ******** proposal.
While I do believe the "W" could be easily absorbed by MSU and several other schools could be combined, I think one of the best aspects of Mississippi's education system is the junior colleges. The are affordable, located within driving distance of almost everyone and provide a solid stepping stone to the 4 year schools.
I also believe that college athletics at junior colleges provides both a stepping stone and a goal for students who might not reach for college if not offered the opportunity to play ball. Mississippi needs to do everything in its power to education the students that need encouragement and funds to achieve a higher education.
I also believe that college athletics at junior colleges provides both a stepping stone and a goal for students who might not reach for college if not offered the opportunity to play ball. Mississippi needs to do everything in its power to education the students that need encouragement and funds to achieve a higher education.
I agree that smaller schools may not be able to offer all the honor courses as the bigger schools. But...I wonder if that doesnt come down to how our system has eroded. Sometimes if districts worked harder on finding the right teachers they could hire some very qualified teachers who could handle some honor courses. I went to a small high school and had a teacher who taught Algebra, Chemistry and Physics. It wasnt called honors (late70s) but she was as good as anyone in the state. Tough as nails but you knew your stuff when you got out her classes. There are very qualified teachers in sciences and math that are retiring early because they have become sick of the educational bureacracy and lose their passion. Need to change how system works.
They are that small. And their football team may not even have two dozen guys. I'm for community schools but in this case the High School could easily be set in Calhoun City with Bruce and Vardaman kids being bused in, I think Vardaman is 6 miles away and Bruce is like 8 miles away.
Totally with you on the redtape etc...
Totally with you on the redtape etc...
I wouldn't really be in favor of consolidating larger schools, obviously, but even pretty large districts in the same county should at least be considered.
We need to take a look at the whole purpose of Schools- to educate our kids.
I would look at what exactly is needed in a school. You have students. You need teachers to teach them.You need a Principal above them to supervise them. Then, you need a Superintendent to supervise the Principals inthe district. You need secretaries to help with the paperwork, and you need janitors to keep things clean, and you need Maintenance to fix things.
After all this, you have to see what you WANT (not "need") to make each school the best they can be.
Mississippi's teachers are among the lowest paid in the nation, while Principals and Superintendents are among the highest paid. I think they need to eliminate many of the Central offices and school districts, while opening more neightborhood Satellite schools, especially at the Elementary level. I wouldn't mind seeing Mississippi having about 12 school districts, with 12 school superintendents spread around the State.
I think Teachers and Principals need more power and authority over what is taught at each school. To me, it's a copout whenever I hear a Principal say, "Sorry, but it's District Policy..." to something that defies common sense. Back when I was at Meridian High School, Principal Charles Armstrong ruled with an iron hand ("Charlie A" did it with velvet gloves)....if some Central Office staff weasel had come to him telling him he need to fill out some new forms, he'd have told him to do it himself.
As I said before, they need to "de-consolidate" some schools to the point where kids don't have to be on a bus at 6 AM and not get home until 5PM, while consolidating the Admin duties (they have fancy computers and that internet-thingy nowadays to handle a lot of that there paperwork).
I would look at what exactly is needed in a school. You have students. You need teachers to teach them.You need a Principal above them to supervise them. Then, you need a Superintendent to supervise the Principals inthe district. You need secretaries to help with the paperwork, and you need janitors to keep things clean, and you need Maintenance to fix things.
After all this, you have to see what you WANT (not "need") to make each school the best they can be.
Mississippi's teachers are among the lowest paid in the nation, while Principals and Superintendents are among the highest paid. I think they need to eliminate many of the Central offices and school districts, while opening more neightborhood Satellite schools, especially at the Elementary level. I wouldn't mind seeing Mississippi having about 12 school districts, with 12 school superintendents spread around the State.
I think Teachers and Principals need more power and authority over what is taught at each school. To me, it's a copout whenever I hear a Principal say, "Sorry, but it's District Policy..." to something that defies common sense. Back when I was at Meridian High School, Principal Charles Armstrong ruled with an iron hand ("Charlie A" did it with velvet gloves)....if some Central Office staff weasel had come to him telling him he need to fill out some new forms, he'd have told him to do it himself.
As I said before, they need to "de-consolidate" some schools to the point where kids don't have to be on a bus at 6 AM and not get home until 5PM, while consolidating the Admin duties (they have fancy computers and that internet-thingy nowadays to handle a lot of that there paperwork).
