Houston...Why not UK?

[WildcatofNati]

That's bogus excuse. If you have 20 times the recruits, then you have 20x the schools recruiting them as well. Louisville, Nashville, Cincinnati, St Louis, Indianapolis, are all close enough to Lexington. And, as close as a lot of those cities in Texas are to Houston. That's a lame excuse and always has been.

Of five cities you named, none of them, not even Cincinnati or St. Louis, are even close in size to Houston. Of the top of my head, I'd say that none of them outside of St. Louis have metro areas with 50% of that of Houston. Not to mention, though some of these places have good high school football, I'd also be willing to be that Houston also has more good prospects per capita than anywhere in the mid-South or Midwest. Texas football is very, very good at the high school level.

I agree that it's not a complete excuse for our suckitude. But there's a reason that there are invariably a lot of really good teams in states with really good high football. In states with crap high school football, including high population centers like New York, there is often crap college football. There are exceptions, but it's a pretty reasonable general rule.

 

[Mojocat_rivals48469]

Maybe some of the posters who preach "it's anything and everything but the coaching" could chime in on this one?

Who in the world says that? My Spidey-sense tells me you're making stuff up.

 

[Free_Salato_Blue]

Looked like to me that for a top ten in the nation team, they didn't fill up the stadium.
Wonder if they can pull the fans in more so if they was in the Longhorn Conference.

 

[dyersburgcatfan]

It absolutely starts with coaching. Elite programs always go after the elite coaches. Look at Alabama, for example. They are an elite football program. They went for, and got, perhaps the best coach in the country. Look at UK basketball. Would we go after anyone except a proven winner? Occasionally an up and coming coach catches fire, but you are always gambling when you hire one. Top coaches are attracted to the top programs. We are a mediocre football program. Top recruits want to play for proven coaches. So the question for a mediocre program is how do we entice a Saban-like coach to take over a program like ours? What promises have to be made; what commitments given? Is it just money, facilities, blank check books for assistants? Or if you really want to dream...what would it take to steal Saban from Alabama? or another top 10 coach from another winning program?

 

[WildCard]

Art Briles (34-28...8-26 in 3 preceding years), then Kevin Sumlin (35-17), then Tony Levine (21-17 and fired for that), then Tom Herman (now 18-1). Plus all the talent you need within a cab ride of campus. Those are the only differences. [winking]

Peace

 

[Big John Stud]

Texas has like 20 times the recruits than the state of ky does

And we still have better or similar recruiting classes to Houston, TCU, and Baylor. They just have great coaches and we don't.

 

[Big John Stud]

There was this stat from Houston/UC game a couple weeks ago. Of the 43 scholarship players their coach has brought to UH in his 2 years there, 24 of them have come from a 25 mile radius of UH's campus. That one hell of a recruiting base that UK does not have.

You guys would be bitching and moaning if we signed those 2 and 3 star guys that live 25 miles within Houston's campus. It's coaching, not recruiting base. See Boise State, see Louisville...

 

[Randy Bob]

Its all about coaching , you can look next door to the ville, or Houston , and they do not get 4 and 5 stars players, go back a few yrs ago and coach Brooks had players with less stars then than what Stoops has now and was going to bowls about every yrs..

 

[Big John Stud]

Recruiting doesn't matter when the coaches can't develop the talent. That, and 3 star Texas kids are better than 4 star Ohio kids.

Yeah, a 4.4 40 in Texas is a 4.5 in Ohio...


Why is Ohio State better than every team in Texas then?

 

[Mike-D]

Yeah, a 4.4 40 in Texas is a 4.5 in Ohio...


Why is Ohio State better than every team in Texas then?

Ohio State recruits nationally.

 

[shutzhund]

Why can't UK do what Houston is doing? I understand UK plays in the SEC, but Houston could easily compete for the SEC East. Why can't UK do the same? I can't believe the players Houston has were any higher rated than UK's players. It seems to me we have comparable QBs and WR talent and probably better RB talent. Let's use them like Houston uses theirs.

Houston is in Texas. They play real tough man high school football in Texas.

UK is in Kentucky. Is there any reason to say more.

 

[SanAntonioCat_rivals376502]

This, and they pulled a uavel, in that they've played in weak conferences and have slowly built a powerhouse. They've flirted with success before, but the real success has come now that they've hired a good football coach. So, in summary - (1) talent rich recruiting pool relative to the college (2) pulled a uavel (3) recently hired an excellent coach to elevate them to new heights

Houston recruits the majority of their players within a 50 mile radius of Houston.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

Yeah, a 4.4 40 in Texas is a 4.5 in Ohio...


Why is Ohio State better than every team in Texas then?

They weren't until Urban starting bring kids in for Fl. Tx. Ga, Ca.

 

[billoliver40]

Good coaching, Texas is down with Strong trying to rebuild, something like a blue ocean of kids to recruit, weak conference.

Or......Boise State version two.

 

[Big John Stud]

Well hell, forget coaching, we need to recruit a bunch of 2 stars from Texas.

 

[SanAntonioCat_rivals376502]

Houston is in Texas. They play real tough man high school football in Texas.

UK is in Kentucky. Is there any reason to say more.

The state of Texas is all about football. Period. High school football in a state as vast as Texas has kids who grow up with one ambition: play football. And, there is an endless number of players whose talents lead them to mostly Texas colleges and universities. LSU, Oklahoma and Arkansas raid the state occasionally. And, yes, they play tough, no holds barred high school football across the state.

 

[thepip]

Why can't UK do what Houston is doing? I understand UK plays in the SEC, but Houston could easily compete for the SEC East. Why can't UK do the same? I can't believe the players Houston has were any higher rated than UK's players. It seems to me we have comparable QBs and WR talent and probably better RB talent. Let's use them like Houston uses theirs.

Its not a matter of figuring it out, here are the figures: Mark Stoops is simply not a head coach, he doesn't have the it.
I honestly believe he will be here the remainder of this year and all of next year and we will be back to the Joker era.
I said all that to say this, it is just not CMS, we have an AD is satisfied with what we have on the field and IMO he has no clue about evaluating coaching talent...PROVEN.
Ps: Leo is pleased as well and so is Lee Todd!
Mitch isn't sufferin and neither is Leo, it's just the microwave fans like myself.

 

[billoliver40]

Football in Texas, Florida, Alabama, Georgia is what basketball USED to be in Kentucky. It's the game the guys want to play and be good at. It fills the stadiums from Lee wee league through elementary and high school.
And yes, I would not doubt a three star player from those states is more sound, more developed and has a higher game IQ than players from Kentucky, Indiana and even yes, players from Ohio.

 

[BlueRunner11]

Houston is in Texas. They play real tough man high school football in Texas.

UK is in Kentucky. Is there any reason to say more.

But I thought I read on here that the toughest kids in the world come from the mtns of eastern kentucky...

 

[mrhotdice]

They do, just not that many schools with that many kids. Mountain kids will kick *** but since they are ignored, it appears now they would rather go to Louisville. Doesn't anyone think it strange that a Belfry kid was never offered to UK but is going to Louisville?

And don't say UKmdoesnt need another lineman. That is recruiting BS.

 

[The_Oak]

Forget trying to hire Herman, we need to hire Hunter Yurachek Houston's AD.

 

[football follies]

Trade QBs out with houston or ul and then you'll see the difference. Do you think those teams would be very good without those guys?

 

[truebluewildcat_rivals34254]

A few things...

Tom Herman is a rare talent by all accounts. Cowherd said that he was MENSA member.

In addition to his coaching talent and genius, Houston has been building towards a competitive football program since they hired Briles. They went outside the box of defense, run game, traditional trench oriented football and brought in an offensive oriented coach who had a different style and playbook than a lot of people. Cougars continued that with Sumlin.

Both Briles and Sumlin do not recruit the biggest baddest RBs, OLs, DLs, etc...they find players with raw speed/open field ability that they can develop to be successful in their system, and they attack open space with precise timing.

They have a similar approach on D as well. For Briles, he was never going to get the biggest baddest 4 and 5 star DLs and LBs, but what he did focus on and find were the leftovers who were maybe just a bit small, short, lean, etc for their position, or lacked traditional mechanics/technique but were just as fast and athletic if not more so than the guys going to Texas, Oklahoma, the big SEC powers, etc.

Throw Chip Kelley and Bobby Petrino into a similar category.

Also, they all get one thing right more often than not, and that is the QB.

You have to have explosive play making ability from your signal caller in today's game. Whether that be in the form of a passing oriented QB with an arm and ability to take full command of the O, or a dual QB with dynamic play making ability outside of the passing game.

 

[DCFseattle]

I see a lot of people talking about being able to recruit close to the school. That helps to some extent, but it's mostly coaching. Just take a look at the basketball program. The majority of those kids are not from Kentucky. It's all about coaching.

Kentucky's basketball program is the best all-time. When you have the long term success it has, you don't worry about recruiting bases. You recruit nationally.

Not every program can do that. Comparing a program like Kentucky basketball being able to recruit nationally to a program like Kentucky football just isn't fair. Compare Alabama's football reach to Kentucky basketball's. Compare Kentucky football's reach to Alabama basketball.

Why can't Avery Johnson just walk into any highly ranked kid's home anywhere in the country and be an actual contender for his services (unless his handshakes are made of money)? For the same reason no coach at Kentucky can in football... Because who the hell cares.

To go from where Kentucky football is right now to being able to recruit nationally is gonna take a while. And football is a much slower burn than basketball. Unless you have the full power of Nike behind you like Oregon, and their seemingly unlimited resources, you have to build to that over time.

Mark Stoops has built a fantastic foundation at UK. Without him, there is no beautiful new Commonwealth Stadium most likely. And there definitely isn't a fancy-pants new training facility, which he helped design. He's responsible for securing the funding for that. He got the administration to buy in and he got the donors to buy in. Whether he makes it as the coach or not, we have a great foundation from which to build.

And even then, you still have a lot of work to do. No coach, short of a Saban or Meyer or one of the other couple monsters on football coaching, is going to get anything close to immediate success.

And Kentucky just doesn't have the home recruiting base to pull from, so we have to go out of our area just to fill the roster. And that makes it even more difficult.

Lewisville didn't just happen overnight. They got to build slowly, and had the added benefit of being in trouble conferences while they built. They're now on a position to recruit, however limited, nationally (and Jackson is gonna further that brand exponentially). We have to build in the SEC. Much harder to get the success to sell to better players to have more success.

Obviously, there are outliers. Missouri winning SEC east a couple times consecutively. There's an exception to every rule.

tl;dr
It's just not that simple to build a program vs already being an established one. The UK basketball comparison is realistically and categorically unfair.

 

[merrimanm]

If it's "Texas" then why doesn't UT, TT, or T a&m consistently challenge for the National Championship? Those teams should be able to out recruit Houston in their own state? I think it has to be the style of play and the freedom that those players feel to make plays. They have an identity...they know what it is...and they are good at it. UK could do the same. I DO NOT understand why we consistently think we have to be a smashmouth FB team to win in the SEC. USE the PASS to set up the RUN. Don't try to be balanced or run first just because we think we have to play tough. That's my whole position on why can't UK be like Houston?

Ummmm...Those teams minus TT have competed for more championships than Houston...and have won more.

 

[DCFseattle]

And we still have better or similar recruiting classes to Houston, TCU, and Baylor. They just have great coaches and we don't.

True. But we're still at the bottom of the SEC, who we're competing against. We've had some of the best recruiting in the program's history under Stoops, and we're still around the bottom 3 in our conference. Don't undervalue that part of the equation.

 

[Big John Stud]

True. But we're still at the bottom of the SEC, who we're competing against. We've had some of the best recruiting in the program's history under Stoops, and we're still around the bottom 3 in our conference. Don't undervalue that part of the equation.

We lost to Southern Miss.

 

[olblue]

Yeah, a 4.4 40 in Texas is a 4.5 in Ohio...


Why is Ohio State better than every team in Texas then?

Ohio State has a national brand. Plus Urban - like he did at Florida - knows to be truly elite, you have cast a wider net.

 

[catfootballfan]

Why can't UK do what Houston is doing? I understand UK plays in the SEC, but Houston could easily compete for the SEC East. Why can't UK do the same? I can't believe the players Houston has were any higher rated than UK's players. It seems to me we have comparable QBs and WR talent and probably better RB talent. Let's use them like Houston uses theirs.

Two words Mitch Barnhart!!!!!!!

 

[DCFseattle]

We lost to Southern Miss.

Yes we did, and that's a terrible loss. No excuse for it really. But there's plenty of season left. It ain't over yet.

 

[John Henry]

Coaching has everythiing to do with it. I also read that Houston has
A team that was recruited within 30 miles of their campus. All of them. If true that is insane. Must be nice

 

[KY1WING]

Who in the world says that? My Spidey-sense tells me you're making stuff up.

Fan base. Better fan base.

We'd be an eight win team changing only the fan base if you believe some posts here

 

[stuway]

Coaching.... And an AD who wouldn't settle. The coach between Sumlin and Briles had a 21-17 record was fired because they wanted to be winners. Not mediocre.

Ive always defended Mitch in the past. If Stoops makes it much longer that will change. Every week longer Stoops is here, I lose more and more faith in Mitch

 

[shutzhund]

But I thought I read on here that the toughest kids in the world come from the mtns of eastern kentucky...

You didn't hear it from me. However, if I was in a bar in Eastern Ky you's hear something different from me.

 

[ZakkW]

I would encourage all to stop looking at recruiting rankings. They are 95% total ****. IMO.

 

[uksam21]

Why can't UK do what Houston is doing? I understand UK plays in the SEC, but Houston could easily compete for the SEC East. Why can't UK do the same? I can't believe the players Houston has were any higher rated than UK's players. It seems to me we have comparable QBs and R talent and probably better RB talent. Let's use them like Houston uses theirs.

Plain and simple.........RECRUITING BASE! Houston and East Texas is rich with talent

 

[cavecat]

If I'm not mistaken Houston is the 4th most populated city in the U.S. The average distance from their recruit's home to campus is less than 40 miles. The FBS average is over 500 miles. They are basically fielding a whole team from the Houston area, we couldn't field a team from the whole state.

 

[Kooky Kats_anon]

Art Briles (34-28...8-26 in 3 preceding years), then Kevin Sumlin (35-17), then Tony Levine (21-17 and fired for that), then Tom Herman (now 18-1). Plus all the talent you need within a cab ride of campus. Those are the only differences. [winking]

Peace

The best case study for patterning fiotball success is Louisville. If they can do it, we can too.

We just need to prioritize winning and fire our AD and hire the best mercenary coach in the country.

 

[kyjohn]

I never trust player rankings we have all sen May players be rated a 5 star and end up a bust. Plus in my personal opinion a 5* out of Texas or Florida seem to be better that a 5* out of Ohio as to me it seems those guys down south play better competition than player up north.

Urban Meyer seems to be doing pretty well with 5 star players from Ohio.

 

[Tskware]

A few things...

Tom Herman is a rare talent by all accounts. Cowherd said that he was MENSA member.

In addition to his coaching talent and genius, Houston has been building towards a competitive football program since they hired Briles. They went outside the box of defense, run game, traditional trench oriented football and brought in an offensive oriented coach who had a different style and playbook than a lot of people. Cougars continued that with Sumlin.

Both Briles and Sumlin do not recruit the biggest baddest RBs, OLs, DLs, etc...they find players with raw speed/open field ability that they can develop to be successful in their system, and they attack open space with precise timing.

They have a similar approach on D as well. For Briles, he was never going to get the biggest baddest 4 and 5 star DLs and LBs, but what he did focus on and find were the leftovers who were maybe just a bit small, short, lean, etc for their position, or lacked traditional mechanics/technique but were just as fast and athletic if not more so than the guys going to Texas, Oklahoma, the big SEC powers, etc.

Throw Chip Kelley and Bobby Petrino into a similar category.

Also, they all get one thing right more often than not, and that is the QB.

You have to have explosive play making ability from your signal caller in today's game. Whether that be in the form of a passing oriented QB with an arm and ability to take full command of the O, or a dual QB with dynamic play making ability outside of the passing game.

Pretty much think this hits the nail on the head.

If recruiting bases were all that there was to it, then UCLA would be a national power annually (no where near), and Louisville would not be able to kick Texas' *** on a regular basis (for the last 6 or 7 years anyway). Houston is not outrecruiting Texas or Oklahoma, they are just really well coached, developed and have meshed together perfectly, sort of like the Butler basketball teams that played (twice!!) for the NC, or the KC Royals who played in the WS (twice in a row!!) and won it all last season.