IF UK DOESN'T PRODUCE

[shutzhund]

in year five and Stoops leaves, for one reason or another, you realize that Barnhart is going to make the decision on who we hire. It takes convoluted thinking, leaving intelligence on the side lines, to think you would see a good hire.

None of the type coaches, named here recently, will pass Barney's morality test. Even if they did why would they want to work under the "saint"?

All the internet chest beating and demands will not move Barnhart out of the equation. He'll still be here when the yelling ends.

 

[Chuckinden]

Hopefully, he has learned from past errors.

 

[shutzhund]

Hopefully, he has learned from past errors.

Heresy.

 

[JHB4UK]

Hopefully, he has learned from past errors.

yeah those Gillispie & Joker hirings really taught him well

 

[Chuckinden]

yeah those Gillispie & Joker hirings really taught him well

They turned out to be bad hires, but at the time, not so much.

Joker deserved a chance and just couldn't get it done.
As for basketball, Gillispie was an up and coming coach and the vast majority of fans would have taken practically anyone than who we had.

 

[51stFan]

They turned out to be bad hires, but at the time, not so much.

Joker deserved a chance and just couldn't get it done.
As for basketball, Gillispie was an up and coming coach and the vast majority of fans would have taken practically anyone than who we had.

Gillespie was hired because he beat UofL. Obviously, MB did a very poor background screening on the guy. He was a poor recruiter and he recruited here like he was at EKU. No excuse for that hire.

 

[kb22stang]

yeah those Gillispie & Joker hirings really taught him well

Well, as much as I dislike Mitch, it appears they did "teach" him. After Billy G we got Cal, no matter how it happened it's worked out perfectly. After Joker he hired a big time coordinator from a big time program and although it might not work out it was a solid strategy. At least GA thinks so considering they did the same thing.

 

[Ugoff]

They turned out to be bad hires, but at the time, not so much.

Joker deserved a chance and just couldn't get it done.
As for basketball, Gillispie was an up and coming coach and the vast majority of fans would have taken practically anyone than who we had.

I don't get this logic. Both hires were disasters so they were bad hires at the beginning, middle and end.

 

[gamalielkid]

in year five and Stoops leaves, for one reason or another, you realize that Barnhart is going to make the decision on who we hire. It takes convoluted thinking, leaving intelligence on the side lines, to think you would see a good hire.

None of the type coaches, named here recently, will pass Barney's morality test. Even if they did why would they want to work under the "saint"?

All the internet chest beating and demands will not move Barnhart out of the equation. He'll still be here when the yelling ends.

As of the moment the hiring decision should be done THIS year if we don't win 6 games. The decision is easy - UK finally has a young alum who is a very successful head coach at a non power 5 school who is a no brainer - at least as of this moment. Just think about how well our OC did here in 2014 and how we won 5 games that year - remember it was ONLY year 2 - the cupboard was still pretty bare! That OC put 31 points up on both Georgia and Mississippi State - when State was ranked number 1. His offense led us to 5 wins that year and also put up 30 on Florida. His offense put 40 on Louisville at Louisville that year. If we had had an average defense we would have easily went to a bowl game that year with an exciting offense. He is doing very well this year and is playing with a two deep roster that is playing 17 players in the two deep he has recruited in only two years - with one of them being a short relationship year. Most people realize we need to get a great young HEAD coach who is up and coming. Yes - this should be the easiest selection of a head coach hire in UK football history!

Go Big Blue!

 

[Calsarmy]

First of all if that plays out it wont be barney making the decision. It will be just like the Calipari situation, he didn't make that one. and he wont make this one. UK has invested too much money in football now to let barney have his finger prints on the next hire. The man is simply incapable of hiring a coach at any level.

 

[3Ringer]

I am in the group that thinks Stoops should have been fired already. I don't care about what he is owed...it's lost money any way you look at it. But Barnhart hiring him was a pretty good move at the time. The mistake, and one I don't see Mitch ever recovering from, was the preposterous raise and extension. Absolutely nothing warranted it at the time. That's why Mitch should not even be involved in hiring Stoops' successor.

 

[51stFan]

Well, as much as I dislike Mitch, it appears they did "teach" him. After Billy G we got Cal, no matter how it happened it's worked out perfectly. After Joker he hired a big time coordinator from a big time program and although it might not work out it was a solid strategy. At least GA thinks so considering they did the same thing.

The Stoops name was red hot a decade ago and not even a mid major hired the Stoops that we have. What is telling to me is that the guy was still available after Oklahoma made their run. You know this guy wasn't turning down jobs waiting on Kentucky. There was a flaw somewhere keeping him from being considered to be HC material.

Georgia hired a former alumni that turned down numerous head coaching jobs. He knew that UGA would finally pull the trigger and fire Richt and he was just waiting it out.

 

[Friedas_Boss]

in year five and Stoops leaves, for one reason or another, you realize that Barnhart is going to make the decision on who we hire. It takes convoluted thinking, leaving intelligence on the side lines, to think you would see a good hire.

None of the type coaches, named here recently, will pass Barney's morality test. Even if they did why would they want to work under the "saint"?

All the internet chest beating and demands will not move Barnhart out of the equation. He'll still be here when the yelling ends.

I realize that Calipari has been much cleaner since he's been at UK, but he had a fairly long list of violations and or questionable recruiting related "issues" prior to his arrival. I know many UK fans who did not like the hire for that exact reason, even saw some posts here saying that they shouldn't hire him.

All of that said, Mitch Barnhart is the guy who hired Cal, so why do y'all continue to reference his unwillingness to hire a coach who doesn't pass his "morality test?"

Did something change with Barnhart?

 

[Nuke99m.]

I may be wrong but I don't think Cal has any violations tied to him. One was on an agent and one is on a player taking the SAT in Chicago.

 

[JPFisher]

I don't get this logic. Both hires were disasters so they were bad hires at the beginning, middle and end.

Joker was personally appointed by the coach who gave us the best and most consistent success in years. We gave Brooks the benefit of the doubt because, you know, he knew his ****. Then Joker booted out all the good old coaches that had built up our success and pissed everything Brooks achieved away. For a moment, Joker wasn't a horrible hire. We even made a bowl under him.

Gillispie was, as has been said, an up-and-comer. Booted in two years because screw losing to VMI. Cal hired. Yay.

Barnhart learned. The two seemed like good hires until they proved us wrong.

Cal was a home run by all rational accounts, supposedly the baseball coach was as well, and the one we're waiting on (pending Eliot's termination and getting over the win hump) is Stoops.

It's easy to say that they were horrible hires when hindsight is 20/20.

 

[kb22stang]

The Stoops name was red hot a decade ago and not even a mid major hired the Stoops that we have. What is telling to me is that the guy was still available after Oklahoma made their run. You know this guy wasn't turning down jobs waiting on Kentucky. There was a flaw somewhere keeping him from being considered to be HC material.

Georgia hired a former alumni that turned down numerous head coaching jobs. He knew that UGA would finally pull the trigger and fire Richt and he was just waiting it out.

Charlie Strong was more similar to Stoops then, and he did a pretty good job at UofL. The point was only that it's common practice to hire a great coordinator, doesn't always work, but it's a decent strategy.

I realize that Calipari has been much cleaner since he's been at UK, but he had a fairly long list of violations and or questionable recruiting related "issues" prior to his arrival.
All of that said, Mitch Barnhart is the guy who hired Cal, so why do y'all continue to reference his unwillingness to hire a coach who doesn't pass his "morality test?"

Cal has never had a violation associated with him. He had a player that took money from an agent (impossible to monitor) and a player who may have cheated on his SAT. He's had a bad rep because he acts like a used car salesman half the time.

 

[Ugoff]

Joker was personally appointed by the coach who gave us the best and most consistent success in years. We gave Brooks the benefit of the doubt because, you know, he knew his ****. Then Joker booted out all the good old coaches that had built up our success and pissed everything Brooks achieved away. For a moment, Joker wasn't a horrible hire. We even made a bowl under him.

Gillispie was, as has been said, an up-and-comer. Booted in two years because screw losing to VMI. Cal hired. Yay.

Barnhart learned. The two seemed like good hires until they proved us wrong.

Cal was a home run by all rational accounts, supposedly the baseball coach was as well, and the one we're waiting on (pending Eliot's termination and getting over the win hump) is Stoops.

It's easy to say that they were horrible hires when hindsight is 20/20.

I get what you're saying but by your own admission, Joker fired the staff that built the sucess and that is his fault. I think what you mean is that it looked like a good hire at the time. The tenure has to be judged in its entirety and when it ends in disaster (i.e loss of fan support and millions of $$) there are no shades of gray, IMO.

 

[51stFan]

It's easy to say that they were horrible hires when hindsight is 20/20.

MB gets paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to not screw up the hires. It's not like he is volunteering his time doing this. No other AD in the SEC could screw up football this much (not to mention Gillespie) and still be hanging around.

 

[Friedas_Boss]

Charlie Strong was more similar to Stoops then, and he did a pretty good job at UofL. The point was only that it's common practice to hire a great coordinator, doesn't always work, but it's a decent strategy.



Cal has never had a violation associated with him. He had a player that took money from an agent (impossible to monitor) and a player who may have cheated on his SAT. He's had a bad rep because he acts like a used car salesman half the time.

I don't want to argue semantics, but if you are intellectually honest, you get my point with Barnhart.

 

[51stFan]

Charlie Strong was more similar to Stoops then, and he did a pretty good job at UofL. The point was only that it's common practice to hire a great coordinator, doesn't always work, but it's a decent strategy.

Strong was rumored to be hired for a couple of years at a lot of openings. Stoops was not even mentioned as a possibility before he came here. That says a lot. It takes some intangibles to run a program and for some reason AD's around the nation wasnt considering him.

 

[Ugoff]

I don't want to argue semantics, but if you are intellectually honest, you get my point with Barnhart.

You said Cal had a long list of violations. He has zero. You're talking about being intellectually honest when you're not even being factually honest.

 

[dallasg23]

lol morality test! And we wondering why we are considered as one of the laughingstock a of college football

 

[sluggercatfan]

As of the moment the hiring decision should be done THIS year if we don't win 6 games. The decision is easy - UK finally has a young alum who is a very successful head coach at a non power 5 school who is a no brainer - at least as of this moment. Just think about how well our OC did here in 2014 and how we won 5 games that year - remember it was ONLY year 2 - the cupboard was still pretty bare! That OC put 31 points up on both Georgia and Mississippi State - when State was ranked number 1. His offense led us to 5 wins that year and also put up 30 on Florida. His offense put 40 on Louisville at Louisville that year. If we had had an average defense we would have easily went to a bowl game that year with an exciting offense. He is doing very well this year and is playing with a two deep roster that is playing 17 players in the two deep he has recruited in only two years - with one of them being a short relationship year. Most people realize we need to get a great young HEAD coach who is up and coming. Yes - this should be the easiest selection of a head coach hire in UK football history!

Go Big Blue!

I LOVE NB and I wouldn't mind at all seeing him get a shot...He, Mike Leach and Jeff Brohm would be my top three. I would probably favor Leach because of success and experience at this point.

 

[DACats86]

Simply put, Barnhart cannot choose another football coach because he will strike viable candidates without performing his due diligence based on his biases and religious beliefs. Likewise, he will consider coaches that he should not because of his biases and religious beliefs. If/when UK performs another coachin search, they have to start by considering any viable candidate - no one can be preemptively struck because of Barnhart's biases and religious beliefs. Due diligence should be performed on all viable candidates.

That said, this is as likely to occur as the Easter bunny come hopping into my house and dropping golden turds.

 

[Ugoff]

Simply put, Barnhart cannot choose another football coach because he will strike viable candidates without performing his due diligence based on his biases and religious beliefs. Likewise, he will consider coaches that he should not because of his biases and religious beliefs. If/when UK performs another coachin search, they have to start by considering any viable candidate - no one can be preemptively struck because of Barnhart's biases and religious beliefs. Due diligence should be performed on all viable candidates.

That said, this is as likely to occur as the Easter bunny come hopping into my house and dropping golden turds.

Hey if it happened once (allegedly), it could happen again.

 

[jnewc2_rivals30628]

in year five and Stoops leaves, for one reason or another, you realize that Barnhart is going to make the decision on who we hire. It takes convoluted thinking, leaving intelligence on the side lines, to think you would see a good hire.

None of the type coaches, named here recently, will pass Barney's morality test. Even if they did why would they want to work under the "saint"?

All the internet chest beating and demands will not move Barnhart out of the equation. He'll still be here when the yelling ends.

My gosh, if we think it's bad now can you imagine what the fan interest and ticket sales will have dwindled to at this point next year? We'll have yet again failed to reach a .500 record and once again will get a beatdown to Louisville heading into the the long offseason by the coach who we wouldn't give an interview.

If Stoops is around this time next year Mitch better hope he has some extra money and fan support stored up in his bunker because the football program will be hemorrhaging and on life support. If he thought the drop in season ticket sales was bad this year he's going to be in for a rude awakening next year. He might have to make the stadium even more "fan friendly" and decrease seating by another 10k so he can attempt to hide people's disinterest in the program.

Oh well, at least we have basketball. Take that SEC! You might have gotten us in the nation's most popular sport Alabama, but wait until that Tuesday night showdown in January at Rupp! We'll get you back and the rest of the SEC will be watching on the edge of their seats as the one hour and fifteen minute battle between our two programs takes place. Revenge will be sweet. Sure we play 30 games and if you lose one it doesn't matter, but boy I just love that roundball. There's something about it. The pregame, the tailgating, the nice weather, the passion around the nation for the sport. Watching those true freshman on the hardwood who love this university and state with all their hearts. I just love it so, God help me I do love it so

 

[Mr Schwump]

in year five and Stoops leaves, for one reason or another, you realize that Barnhart is going to make the decision on who we hire. It takes convoluted thinking, leaving intelligence on the side lines, to think you would see a good hire.

None of the type coaches, named here recently, will pass Barney's morality test. Even if they did why would they want to work under the "saint"?

All the internet chest beating and demands will not move Barnhart out of the equation. He'll still be here when the yelling ends.

This has been discussed ad naseum on here, you just now figured it out?

 

[JPFisher]

I get what you're saying but by your own admission, Joker fired the staff that built the sucess and that is his fault. I think what you mean is that it looked like a good hire at the time. The tenure has to be judged in its entirety and when it ends in disaster (i.e loss of fan support and millions of $$) there are no shades of gray, IMO.

It is. I don't disagree with you on your other points.

 

[JPFisher]

MB gets paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to not screw up the hires. It's not like he is volunteering his time doing this. No other AD in the SEC could screw up football this much (not to mention Gillespie) and still be hanging around.

And you'll notice that this has led to an overall decline in SEC prominence since, oh, the BCS era and even before that.

Everyone wants to be Alabama and we're seeing more firings than a montage of Trump sound bites. I attribute the quick trigger tendencies of the conference (and from what I have heard, various Twitter sources and commentators do as well) to the SEC not performing to expectations.

Bret Bielema was great at Wisconsin... not so much in the SEC. Fire that damn athletics director! He do bad job!

 

[ClockCalamity]

I don't get this logic. Both hires were disasters so they were bad hires at the beginning, middle and end.

Not to defend MB, because I think he's terrible, but I don't get your logic. It's completely logical to think that someone could, on paper, look like a good hire at the time the hire was made. Then, after time, realize that the person was not a good hire, for various reasons - the guy's a philandering fall-down drunk and can't recruit, or doesn't have what it takes to lead and motivate, or whatever. Bad hires are never intentionally made; that would be illogical.

 

[Woodrow24]

And you'll notice that this has led to an overall decline in SEC prominence since, oh, the BCS era and even before that.

Everyone wants to be Alabama and we're seeing more firings than a montage of Trump sound bites. I attribute the quick trigger tendencies of the conference (and from what I have heard, various Twitter sources and commentators do as well) to the SEC not performing to expectations.

Bret Bielema was great at Wisconsin... not so much in the SEC. Fire that damn athletics director! He do bad job!

Yeah let's compare what Barnhart has done to a coach that is 4-1 right now ranked 16th in the country and won 8 games. Last year alone he beat Tennessee, ole miss, and lsu. Ole Barney definitely compares to that.

 

[Ugoff]

Not to defend MB, because I think he's terrible, but I don't get your logic. It's completely logical to think that someone could, on paper, look like a good hire at the time the hire was made. Then, after time, realize that the person was not a good hire, for various reasons - the guy's a philandering fall-down drunk and can't recruit, or doesn't have what it takes to lead and motivate, or whatever. Bad hires are never intentionally made; that would be illogical.

Saying that someone looked like a good hire "at the time" is another way of saying it was a bad hire. It's not like the team was making New Years Day bowls and then the wheels fell off. As someone pointed out MB gets paid big money to make these hires.

Ask yourself... if you knew then what you know now, would you make the coach in waiting announcement? If not, it was a bad hire. You might counter that by saying hindsight is 20/20, but this was the 2nd bad hire and the third is taking on water. At some point it's time to identify the pattern and deal with it.

 

[CB3UK]

Mitch simply will not fire people unless his hand is forced by the fan or the boosters, or both.

 

[WildCard]

Gillespie was hired because he beat UofL. Obviously, MB did a very poor background screening on the guy. He was a poor recruiter and he recruited here like he was at EKU. No excuse for that hire.

Gotta agree with this. You don't go to aTm for a basketball coach any more than you go to UK for a football coach.

As for Joker hire, imo, he had done nothing to "deserve" being named CIW at an SEC school for his inaugural HC gig. If there was a legitimate "fear" he would take his OC talents to another school...let him go. You could always hire him back to the HC job at UK if he proved successful elsewhere.

Peace

 

[CB3UK]

Saying that someone looked like a good hire "at the time" is another way of saying it was a bad hire. It's not like the team was making New Years Day bowls and then the wheels fell off. As someone pointed out MB gets paid big money to make these hires.

Ask yourself... if you knew then what you know now, would you make the coach in waiting announcement? If not, it was a bad hire. You might counter that by saying hindsight is 20/20, but this was the 2nd bad hire and the third is taking on water. At some point it's time to identify the pattern and deal with it.

 

[JPFisher]

Yeah let's compare what Barnhart has done to a coach that is 4-1 right now ranked 16th in the country and won 8 games. Last year alone he beat Tennessee, ole miss, and lsu. Ole Barney definitely compares to that.

The point being that even success doesn't satisfy those with too stringent of criteria. I never made a comparison between the two directors in my point. You assumed I was comparing Barney and whoever sits at Arky. I'm comparing attitudes.

 

[Woodrow24]

The point being that even success doesn't satisfy those with too stringent of criteria. I never made a comparison between the two directors in my point. You assumed I was comparing Barney and whoever sits at Arky. I'm comparing attitudes.

Understand. Thanks for replying.

 

[JPFisher]

Saying that someone looked like a good hire "at the time" is another way of saying it was a bad hire. It's not like the team was making New Years Day bowls and then the wheels fell off. As someone pointed out MB gets paid big money to make these hires.

Ask yourself... if you knew then what you know now, would you make the coach in waiting announcement? If not, it was a bad hire. You might counter that by saying hindsight is 20/20, but this was the 2nd bad hire and the third is taking on water. At some point it's time to identify the pattern and deal with it.

I'm not sure even Saban could've come in and gotten us to a NYD bowl.

No, I wouldn't make a coach-in-waiting announcement because we saw that fail miserably with Joker.

I understand what you're saying when you say to identify a pattern, but do you really think starting over with a new AD would help? If the new guy didn't know the patterns at UK, could they realistically do a better job?

 

[JPFisher]

Understand. Thanks for replying.

Very welcome, Friend.

 

[Woodrow24]

Very welcome, Friend.

I misinterpreted your post and apologize. I'm never afraid to admit when I'm wrong.