The true keys to success or failure now

Apr 13, 2002
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I just can't believe that 4 years into the Mark Stoops experiment, we have a JUCO QB starting against SEC competition. We really need to land some good depth at the QB position

To be fair: he's the backup. He's exactly what a team needs as a backup. He's winning games and making a few plays here and there. Noone expects some immense talent, otherwise he'd be starting.

Also, there's talent in the wings. But Hoak saving his redshirt is crucial for the future. It's the right move, long term.
 

Blue Decade

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And we could easily be 1-5 so far this season. Very easily. Each game being won or lost on a bounce of the ball here and there is not where you want your program at.
You can play this game with every team in the country. Every team could have lost games that they won, or won games that they lost. Kentucky is 3-3. That's a fact, not a feeling.
 
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BlueRunner11

Heisman
Mar 26, 2011
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There is no definition for "entry level bowl". Our 1984 team beat Wisconsin in the Hall of Fame Bowl. Prior to that game, Wisconsin was the #9 team in the country. So that was a significant win. Brooks beat Clemson and Florida State in bowls. Those were meaningful victories for our football program. You can disagree, of course, but you would be wrong. And again, you are jumping the gun to conclude that Stoops isn't the "right coach". You say it isn't "debatable" but that is an emotional response, not a fact. Maybe he is. Maybe he isn't. We will know in November, 2017.

Don't disagree with those wins at all. Just stating there's obvious a difference in the level of bowl games.

And it's not an emotional response at all. As of now, Mark Stoops has never coached a winning season or made any type of bowl game as a head coach and until he does, there's no reason to expect someone to do something they've never done. Maybe next year?
 

BlueRunner11

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You can play this game with every team in the country. Every team could gave lost games that they won, or won games that they lost. Kentucky is 3-3. That's a fact, not a feeling.

That was in response to saying we were a play or two away from bowl games witch I agree but also we've been a play or two away from even worse seasons.
 

Blue Decade

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Is it too much of a stretch to think that maybe CMS, at this time in his career, is a coach good enough to recruit players to pull a team from the bottom but has a ceiling when it comes to game preparation, on-field coaching, in-game decision making, and the overall moxie required to take that next level of upsetting better teams on such a large stage?

It is very tough on the job training in the SEC, whether it is UK or UGA.
Mark Stoops is 49 years old. He has been a head football coach for 42 games. As you said, Stoops is on a challenging learning curve. We can't conclude yet whether Stoops is the right man for this job because we don't know how successfully he will climb the learning curve, and because he still has 18 games to climb it.
 

Blue Decade

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That was in response to saying we were a play or two away from bowl games witch I agree but also we've been a play or two away from even worse seasons.
But again, I can say the same thing about almost any team. If you can't take the nuances and uncertainties of organized athletic competition, then it's going to be hard to be a fan of a team.
 

Blue Decade

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Don't disagree with those wins at all. Just stating there's obvious a difference in the level of bowl games.

And it's not an emotional response at all. As of now, Mark Stoops has never coached a winning season or made any type of bowl game as a head coach and until he does, there's no reason to expect someone to do something they've never done. Maybe next year?
Uh uh. If you insist it's "not debatable" whether Stoops might be the right man for the Kentucky job, that is an emotional response, not a fact. I have spent my entire life in football, and I believe it's still highly debatable. I still clearly remember when our fans were adamant that Rich Brooks wasn't the right man for this job.
 

BlueRunner11

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Uh uh. If you insist it's "not debatable" whether Stoops might be the right man for the Kentucky job, that is an emotional response, not a fact. I have spent my entire life in football, and I believe it's still highly debatable. I still clearly remember when our fans were adamant that Rich Brooks wasn't the right man for this job.

Well all we can do is wait and see because you're right about one thing, he's not going anywhere until November 2017.

My prediction and fear is that we spend 10 years with Stoops straddling the line of 5/6 wins year in and year out always on the verge of turning the corner but never actually turning it. As @brianpoe mentioned, I think this is most likely his ceiling but I'd love to be wrong.

Just remember, if it wasn't for some of us fans having higher expectations and demands than what other fans had...Joker would still be coaching.
 

sluggercatfan

Heisman
Aug 17, 2004
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This is a bye week post about the future. I will even use paragraphs to satisfy critics. Even though we are 3-3, 2-2 and our coach has 3 more years on his contract, some posters are just locked into the next Kentucky football coach and trashing Stoops. If you are 1 of them, please stop reading at this point, because continuing may spur you to sarcasm that isn't fair to other people interested in our current football team. Since June, I have said Kentucky will win 4-5 games in 2016, then at least 7 games in 2017. My 2016 forecast is looking very good. My reasoning was based on extreme inexperience on Kentucky's defensive front 7 and at the quarterback position. My 2017 reasoning is based on the opposite - 19 incumbent starters pIus both kickers coming back. Our most important personnel weaknesses of 2016 can be turned into strengths by 2017. I am not saying they will or won't. I am only saying they "can be".

It's time for people to forget about Southern Miss and put on our big boy pants, as Coach Claiborne used to say. We have a team with lots of talent, but also with fatal positional gaps. These positional gaps have largely been created by departures. I won't recite the list of departures, because they aren't about the future.

At this point, Coach Stoops can still succeed or fail. To succeed, Coach Stoops must do 3 things. Recruit at high level, develop staff better, develop players better. 1. We have begun to see recruiting momentum fall off. Less than 20 scholarships are available this year. Cedrick Dort and Jamin Davis should not be high priorities. Kentucky won't sign Jedrick Wills, but Stoops can still save this class by keeping Javonte Richardson and signing Danny Clark and a couple of high quality linemen and linebackers. Clark has already scheduled his announcement. A year from now, recruiting must be at a higher level. Jarren Williams is a good start, and he must be kept. 2. Kentucky's coaching staff is still a work in progress. The offensive staff has been stabilized by Eddie Gran. Matt House has stabilized special teams. But our defensive staff is still unsettled. This starts at the top. When Coach Stoops took over the defense, that was a no-confidence vote in Eliot and Clinkscale. Those 2 staff positions need upgrades. Especially Eliot. Stoops must hire an SEC-capable defensive coordinator. 3. Although Melvin Lewis, Josh Forrest, CJ Johnson were spectacular development stories, Stoops hasn't had enough of those. Too many players still underperform. Some of this is inexperience. Inexperience no longer a problem in 2017.

It doesn't matter what preconceived notions some fans had about season 4, unless those notions were supported by known facts. For example, strength at running back and wide receiver is a fact. Inexperience at quarterback and the front 7 is a fact. Whereas being tired of this or tired of that is an emotion, not a fact. Stoops and our players can't and shouldn't be responsible for emotions of fans. Even when we win, the same people are always upset and negative. That's compulsion. On the ground, this coaching staff has not failed yet. They can still succeed or fail. But recruiting must pick up, and our coaching staff still needs further development. More success in those 2 areas should lead to more consistent player development. If Stoops can pull them off. I'm not saying he can. I'm not saying he can't. But for now, all these posts about the next coach are pointless, at best. All they do is make people like Jordan Griffin's mother angry.
Wow...not a glowing endorsement of a HC who is supposed to be a defensive guru in his fourth!
 
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sluggercatfan

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You are a perfect example of what I meant in the 1st paragraph, which is where you should have stopped reading.
Problem with you is he is correct and you are wrong. With Bobby Petrino or Mike Leach as HC we would probably be looking at our 3rd st bowl season...not wishing, hoping we win five games..the sec east ,despite what some like you think, has been week for at least 5 straight years..we should be competitive in year 4 of Stoops
 

ukdesi

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Dec 17, 2002
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Bigger question to me is whether Stoops can sustain 6-8+ win seasons, not one 7 win season and then regress to below 6. To get 7 wins next year, I think we'll need a semblance of a passing offense. We likely won't have a returning QB that will have solidified the position. Much less margin for error in matchups such as at Southern Miss or at South Carolina with little passing offense. Averaging 7 wins/season over the long haul is not too much to expect I think for Kentucky, especially with the down SEC east and when schools like WVU, UL or Michigan State can do it. Just need the right head coach (which may or may not be Stoops).
 

UKWildcats#8

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Jun 25, 2011
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The fact remains there is 0 excuse to have lost to Southern Miss. If UK beats MSU then Stoops failed to get UK to a bowl yet again due to losing to an inferior opponent. And as for winning "at least 7" next year, one just has to chuckle after looking at the schedule for next year. We shall see about that prediction, as I have a great memory and will remember. The OP has beat his chest about 4-5 again and again in 2016, let's see if he is around at the end of 2017 if that bold prediction goes wrong.
 

willievic

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Aug 28, 2005
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After watching Miss. State last night, and Vandy beat Georgia, There are NO strong teams in the SEC East, except Tenn., and they have not looked that good. An excellent example was against Georgia, on a "Hail Mary", to win, and Georgia just lost to Vandy. There was absolutely NO EXCUSE for USM to beat us, and that is what caused a lot of fans to turn on Coach Stoops.
If were improving as much as Coach Stoops says, and as most fans think, we should be able to win two of the three against Miss State, Missouri, and Georgia. Austin Peay is definitely winnable (I think), and after watching UofL against Duke, UofL is not as good as advertised. Clemson is definitely not as good as most people thought. NC State just missed a 33 yard field goal to win with 2 seconds to go. Into overtime. NC State lost earlier in the season to East Carolina.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!
 

Blue Decade

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Problem with you is he is correct and you are wrong. With Bobby Petrino or Mike Leach as HC we would probably be looking at our 3rd st bowl season...not wishing, hoping we win five games..the sec east ,despite what some like you think, has been week for at least 5 straight years..we should be competitive in year 4 of Stoops
That is your assumption, and that's all it is. It doesn't make you right, and it certainly doesn't make me wrong. You have given up on Stoops. That's your business. The truth is that you have no idea how Petrino or Leach would perform as Kentucky's head coach, but you are inclined to complain.
 

Blue Decade

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After watching Miss. State last night, and Vandy beat Georgia, There are NO strong teams in the SEC East, except Tenn., and they have not looked that good. An excellent example was against Georgia, on a "Hail Mary", to win, and Georgia just lost to Vandy. There was absolutely NO EXCUSE for USM to beat us, and that is what caused a lot of fans to turn on Coach Stoops.
If were improving as much as Coach Stoops says, and as most fans think, we should be able to win two of the three against Miss State, Missouri, and Georgia. Austin Peay is definitely winnable (I think), and after watching UofL against Duke, UofL is not as good as advertised. Clemson is definitely not as good as most people thought. NC State just missed a 33 yard field goal to win with 2 seconds to go. Into overtime. NC State lost earlier in the season to East Carolina.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!
Alabama is easily the best team in the country. Texas A&M is 1 of the best. They are both SECW teams. But you are underestimating Florida and even Tennessee, both are ranked. And BTW, Southern Miss beat us for the reasons I outlined here before that game. They were the better, more experienced team.
 

Blue Decade

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The fact remains there is 0 excuse to have lost to Southern Miss. If UK beats MSU then Stoops failed to get UK to a bowl yet again due to losing to an inferior opponent. And as for winning "at least 7" next year, one just has to chuckle after looking at the schedule for next year. We shall see about that prediction, as I have a great memory and will remember. The OP has beat his chest about 4-5 again and again in 2016, let's see if he is around at the end of 2017 if that bold prediction goes wrong.
That's an emotion, not a fact. Did you play football? Southern Miss was better than us.
 

BlueRunner11

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Mar 26, 2011
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Alabama is easily the best team in the country. Texas A&M is 1 of the best. They are both SECW teams. But you are underestimating Florida and even Tennessee, both are ranked. And BTW, Southern Miss beat us for the reasons I outlined here before that game. They were the better, more experienced team.

There was NO legitimate reason other than horrendous coaching to lose to Southern Miss after being up by 25 pts as the first half neared end. You cant spin that one.
 

Blue Decade

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There was NO legitimate reason other than horrendous coaching to lose to Southern Miss after being up by 25 pts as the first half neared end. You cant spin that one.
That's total nonsense. You have heard there are 2 halves in all football games, right? We lost to Southetn Miss because Southern Miss was better. I explained this before the game and got slammed here, but I was telling the truth. The result was predictable - Lorenzen and several analysts also predicted the outcome! Southern Miss came to town with a senior quarterback, a 1,000 yard rusher, and solid lines and linebackers. We entered the game with a very inexperienced quarterback and shaky lines. We had just lost Meant. On our starting front 7, no less than 6 of the 7 players were brand new starters. Dawson and Mullens took advantage of that. For the reasons I predicted, Southern Miss gained 520 yards in the game. When that happens, you lose. Some of you guys were posting that Kentucky would "blow out" Southern Miss. There was no factual reason to predict that, but we always see unfounded hype on this board before the season starts, following which you guys typically blast our coaches for the following 4 months - which you are doing again now. You were wrong then, and you are wrong now.
 

TotesMcGotes

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Aug 31, 2015
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If he fires elliot (as he should) we will not get an sec level D coordinator to come on what will be a make or break year for stoops (assuming no bowl this year) We could hire a low level d coordinator. I think a better option (at least for one year) is to take over the defense for all of 2017 and get us to a bowl to give everyone confidence , thus making the d coordinator job more attractive in 2018
 
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