Thoughts from a doubtful man

[NavyCat88]

This is game 3 in a series of 4 "elimination" games for bowl eligibility. USC & Vandy were the first and second must-have wins.

We now need MSU and Mizzou. MSU has increased importance because we have the benefit of a bye week, a home game, and a night game while MSU is coming off a tough road loss at BYU.

If we defeat the Bulldogs in CWS, we continue rolling into Missouri, and I think we have a fair chance of winning.

If we don't win this game with all the advantages and bowl eligibility on the line....I don't see us rebounding and beating Mizzou on the road next week--and thus begins a tough second half of the season again for CMS.

Let's whip the dogs and go get win #4! GBB!

 

[theoledog]

I'm not very confident in Stoops' head coaching ability, but then again, I've always believed UK football doesn't need to be in the business training coaches on the job.

But I will say this, if UK makes a bowl game, after the Southern Miss and Florida debacles, and losing their starting QB, then I'll feel a lot better about Stoops.

What will give me even more confidence in Stoops, is if he goes out gets a veteran DC to replace Eliot. That will show me he has the necessary balls to make a tough decision like firing a friend when it is what needs to be done.

But lets make that bowl game first.

Stoops on Eliot..... "we work very well together"....
He's not going anywhere.

 

[allabouttheUK]

Stoops is fools gold, whether or not he gets to 6 is irrelevant to me. 6 wins today is just for bowl revenue. You lost as many as you won. That's not impressive to me.

If he could win 6 and build on that, I'd be fine with it. But I don't see any way he could move that to 7,8,9 wins. If he wins 6 next year could be the same and he's probably go back to 3,4,5 win seasons for a while. We are putting this program back a decade or more sticking with this guy.

6 > 5, we learned it early on in school. This means that 6 is actually...an IMPROVEMENT!!!! I think I've suggested it once to you already, but if you aren't impressed with anything you see then by all means submit your superior resume. We would all love to see you turn around the program.

It's not just bowl revenue, it's extra practice time which every coach in the nation will tell you is extremely valuable.

Improvement comes with maturity, and experience. The defense is led by a group of Sophomores who didn't get the benefit of a RS year. If you can't understand that, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[sluggercatfan]

6 > 5, we learned it early on in school. This means that 6 is actually...an IMPROVEMENT!!!! I think I've suggested it once to you already, but if you aren't impressed with anything you see then by all means submit your superior resume. We would all love to see you turn around the program.

It's not just bowl revenue, it's extra practice time which every coach in the nation will tell you is extremely valuable.

Improvement comes with maturity, and experience. The defense is led by a group of Sophomores who didn't get the benefit of a RS year. If you can't understand that, then I don't know what to tell you.

Never has been about defense with MS for me...it's his philosophy towards offense. It's 2016 and the game has changed, just ask NS and his defense is still awesome, but he has certainly discovered that sometimes you must outscore people.

 

[docholiday51]

A win this week gives us a decent shot a 6 and a bowl and that is a big deal.It is also about much more than that,we have had two weeks to prepare for a team that we should be able to compete with for 4 quarters,they are coming off a loss on the other side of the country.In the game before that they were manhandled and embarrassed at home by Auburn,their coach challenged their lack of physical play and they were more physical in the next game but lost anyway. They are likely as down as they are going to be,I would imagine that practice hasn't been a whole lot of fun at ss St this week.

We have as much going for us as we have had in a game in quite some time,Stoops and the team have to take advantage of what is right in front of them.Closing the deal in this game is more important than possible bowl implications because not closing the deal says more about who we are and where we are than we can overcome this year or next year.The outcome of this game defines us as a football program.

 

[fuzz77]

Never has been about defense with MS for me...it's his philosophy towards offense. It's 2016 and the game has changed, just ask NS and his defense is still awesome, but he has certainly discovered that sometimes you must outscore people.

If it has never been about defense to you then you're not as football savvy as you might think. NS makes sure that his defense is solid before he went and tinkered with the offense.

I realize that you think that throwing the ball 60 times a game is the only way to win. However, if you don't have a QB that can complete 70% of their passes then that is a recipe for disaster. We thought that Pat was that QB...he wasn't. Drew hasn't proven he can do so plus and we know Stephen isn't that guy. This isn't the NFL where you can go out and trade and get what you need. You have to work with what you have.
Our defense has gotten better because the offense has been able to control the ball for the most part. Any defense that is on the field for 70+ plays is going to give out. We don't have 3-4 people deep that we can keep guys fresh.
You have to exhort some kind of ball control. We have something that is working that accomplishes the task. There is no reason to abandon it.

 

[carolinacat]

Do you realize it is a zero sum game? The only goal is to be better than everyone else. If everyone sucks, and we win, are you really going to say we only won because everyone sucks? Alabama could say that every year. You are good if sucked. Our goal is not to be the best team in history, it is to be the best team this year.

You are one of the people that my dear mother would say "would ***** if they were hung with a gold rope."

true...we've won a few SEC championships in basketball because the conference was horrible.

 

[carolinacat]

6 > 5, we learned it early on in school. This means that 6 is actually...an IMPROVEMENT!!!! I think I've suggested it once to you already, but if you aren't impressed with anything you see then by all means submit your superior resume. We would all love to see you turn around the program.

It's not just bowl revenue, it's extra practice time which every coach in the nation will tell you is extremely valuable.

Improvement comes with maturity, and experience. The defense is led by a group of Sophomores who didn't get the benefit of a RS year. If you can't understand that, then I don't know what to tell you.

Thanks for giving this "contributor" a lesson in basic math. Doubt it will register though. LOL!

 

[carolinacat]

So now that we seem to be improving the complainers have shifted to the "we might make a bowl but it isn't because of our players and staff, but rather because everyone else sucks".

Gotcha. Hear you loud and clear guy.

Bingo. His meme is falling apart and now he's backtracking.

 

[BBBLazing]

true...we've won a few SEC championships in basketball because the conference was horrible.

so we didn't do well against national competition those years?

 

[Jared1985]

At the end of the day Stoops may right the ship enough to keep his job for at least this season.

I give him all the credit in the world for what he's done so far. The team we were week 1 to now.....

What bothers me is us EVER being as bad as we were week one I know he's turned this around but the fact that we sank that low to begin with is insanity.

I still feel like at the end of the day we need an offensive coach of we ever want to get to the "middle of the pack". Every good season we have, Stoops is going to lose his playcaller to bigger jobs. That will be his downfall eventually.

But at least maybe he can help set up a decent recruiting base for the next guy.

 

[allabouttheUK]

At the end of the day Stoops may right the ship enough to keep his job for at least this season.

I give him all the credit in the world for what he's done so far. The team we were week 1 to now.....

What bothers me is us EVER being as bad as we were week one I know he's turned this around but the fact that we sank that low to begin with is insanity.

I still feel like at the end of the day we need an offensive coach of we ever want to get to the "middle of the pack". Every good season we have, Stoops is going to lose his playcaller to bigger jobs. That will be his downfall eventually.

But at least maybe he can help set up a decent recruiting base for the next guy.

Middle of the pack....was Hal Mumme a "middle of the pack" coach? Flashy offensive coach that put fans in the seats, but 1 bowl game, right?

How about Rich Brooks? What was it 3 or 4 straight bowl games all wins.

One was an offensive minded coach and the other was a defensive minded coach, guess which is which.

This is the SEC not the BIG12 or PAC12, defense isn't optional in this league, it's mandatory.

 

[Jared1985]

Middle of the pack....was Hal Mumme a "middle of the pack" coach? Flashy offensive coach that put fans in the seats, but 1 bowl game, right?

How about Rich Brooks? What was it 3 or 4 straight bowl games all wins.

One was an offensive minded coach and the other was a defensive minded coach, guess which is which.

This is the SEC not the BIG12 or PAC12, defense isn't optional in this league, it's mandatory.

I agree defense was better under Brooks than Mumme, but if you think we won big games under Brooks because of defense you need to rewatch some football games.

It's been proven TIME AND TIME AGAIN. small schools in big conferences don't consistently compete well unless they do so with offense (Vandy under Franklin, Ole miss under Freeze).

If Stoops ever manages to put together a team that doesn't look like boiled ****, it will be one with a really good offense and a managable defense.

We're not Alabama, LSU or UT. If you think Kentucky will ever become a contender in the SEC as a defensive minded team you are fooling yourself.

 

[allabouttheUK]

I agree defense was better under Brooks than Mumme, but if you think we won big games under Brooks because of defense you need to rewatch some football games.

It's been proven TIME AND TIME AGAIN. small schools in big conferences don't consistently compete well unless they do so with offense (Vandy under Franklin, Ole miss under Freeze).

If Stoops ever manages to put together a team that doesn't look like boiled ****, it will be one with a really good offense and a managable defense.

We're not Alabama, LSU or UT. If you think Kentucky will ever become a contender in the SEC as a defensive minded team you are fooling yourself.

#1 LSU @ CWS...DEFENSIVE stop on 4th down to win the game. Can't think of a much bigger game than that one. During the Brooks years UK was also a very opportunistic defense +T.O. margin.
Yes the offense those years was good, but it wasn't Art Briles, Hal Mumme, or any other hot name good. It was a balanced attack with a solid QB and solid cast of players around him on offense.

By leading with offense instead of defense, you just make it that much harder to compete in the SEC.

As to your proof...DUKE, Wake Forest, UF this year..I'm sure there are other examples, but those are off the top of my head. Teams that have a really good defense and just enough offense to get the job done. You won't win in the SEC unless you have a good defense. Proof is UK and Hal Mumme. We've been there and done that.

 

[Jdhays21]

#1 LSU @ CWS...DEFENSIVE stop on 4th down to win the game. Can't think of a much bigger game than that one. During the Brooks years UK was also a very opportunistic defense +T.O. margin.
Yes the offense those years was good, but it wasn't Art Briles, Hal Mumme, or any other hot name good. It was a balanced attack with a solid QB and solid cast of players around him on offense.

By leading with offense instead of defense, you just make it that much harder to compete in the SEC.

As to your proof...DUKE, Wake Forest, UF this year..I'm sure there are other examples, but those are off the top of my head. Teams that have a really good defense and just enough offense to get the job done. You won't win in the SEC unless you have a good defense. Proof is UK and Hal Mumme. We've been there and done that.

I don't really have a dog in this fight but that 2007 team won because we had a Heisman candidate QB that threw for like 40 TD's and 10 INT. We put up around 40 just about every time we went on the field.

 

[Comebakatz3]

I think that offense is the quick and easy answer. If you have the right scheme then you can hide a bad offensive line and you don't have to have the most skilled receivers and running backs. You get people in space and you make quick throws or move the pocket and you can make things happen. However, this isn't really a long term goal. It is great to get that immediate success on offense and it can pump life into the program, but to be successful long term you have to build at least a decent defense. Defense is much harder to get from day one as you cannot hide poor defensive linemen. You can blitz and you can do things to help them some, but every risk you take can get you burned. In 2007 we won with offense, but our defense was also just good enough to get stops when needed. In the Mumme era our defense was horrible and we basically had to outscore everyone. Hell, Tennessee would put up like 70 points against us in those days.

Obviously, balance is the key. Alabama has an amazing defense year in and year out, but their offense is also one that can go out there and hang 40+ on anyone. I am encouraged by what Stoops has done on defense in the last three games, but I am also remaining skeptical. What does have me concerned is that in four years we have really failed to have any semblance of a consistent offense. We have had poor offensive line play and poor quarterback play. So, I don't know if that is a product of Stoops keeping the reins on his offensive coaches or if that is because of poor talent at quarterback and O-line or what. I do know that Towles and Barker and the skill players have the credentials to be an amazing offense, but they have failed to really show that they have the ability for four years and that is extremely concerning. Hopefully Barker heals up and he can come in next year and be that quarterback we've wanted and the offense booms while the defense continues to steadily become more formidable.

 

[allabouttheUK]

I don't really have a dog in this fight but that 2007 team won because we had a Heisman candidate QB that threw for like 40 TD's and 10 INT. We put up around 40 just about every time we went on the field.

I acknowledged that in my post. We had a very good QB and a very good supporting cast around him. However our defense was pretty damn good that year as well.

I don't think either of us in the conversation are wrong, in fact we are both right. You have to be balanced on both sides of the ball to be successful consistently. Some people prefer offense to defense and some prefer the opposite, nothing at all wrong with that.

 

[allabouttheUK]

I agree defense was better under Brooks than Mumme, but if you think we won big games under Brooks because of defense you need to rewatch some football games.

It's been proven TIME AND TIME AGAIN. small schools in big conferences don't consistently compete well unless they do so with offense (Vandy under Franklin, Ole miss under Freeze).

If Stoops ever manages to put together a team that doesn't look like boiled ****, it will be one with a really good offense and a managable defense.

We're not Alabama, LSU or UT. If you think Kentucky will ever become a contender in the SEC as a defensive minded team you are fooling yourself.

You aren't entirely wrong, and I apologize for the polarizing take. Offense is important, just as defense is important. To be truly successful or at worst average in this league you have to have a bit of both. I just prefer defense over offense. I love the ground and pound offense with some play action, and a defense that knocks some peckers into watch pockets. [banana]

 

[Soupbean]

Stoops is fools gold, whether or not he gets to 6 is irrelevant to me. 6 wins today is just for bowl revenue. You lost as many as you won. That's not impressive to me.

If he could win 6 and build on that, I'd be fine with it. But I don't see any way he could move that to 7,8,9 wins. If he wins 6 next year could be the same and he's probably go back to 3,4,5 win seasons for a while. We are putting this program back a decade or more sticking with this guy.

I think this is the big concern. Even if Stoops doesn't get to 6 this year he still has the benefit of the doubt with the administration because of the impression that the recruiting the first 3 years was real and there really is young talent that they expect to eventually pay dividends.

So Stoops future and his ability to go 6 or 7 years will depend on two things . . .

1. If the talent already here starts to show development
2. If he can continue to recruit in the top 35 despite the limited wins.

He has to have both to continue past next year. His surprising recruiting the first few years bought him a lot of time with some fans and admin but if it doesn't show more on the field or if he can't sustain it that's when the admin will have no choice but to move on.

 

[allabouttheUK]

I've said this before, but it's worth repeating. Fans expecting to see continue improvement year to year (W-L) are setting themselves up for disappointment. Take a look at next years schedule and even with a better team that is still a tough road to go. They could realistically play well in all 3 phases of the game next year from beginning to end and still struggle for 6 wins. Scheduling shouldn't be left out of expectations.

 

[sluggercatfan]

You aren't entirely wrong, and I apologize for the polarizing take. Offense is important, just as defense is important. To be truly successful or at worst average in this league you have to have a bit of both. I just prefer defense over offense. I love the ground and pound offense with some play action, and a defense that knocks some peckers into watch pockets. [banana]

It's 2016...Offense is more important today than it's ever been because of the speed that teams play. Even A La has to outscore teams that have put lots of emphasis of scoring...watch a&m game Sat

 

[fuzz77]

It's 2016...Offense is more important today than it's ever been because of the speed that teams play. Even A La has to outscore teams that have put lots of emphasis of scoring...watch a&m game Sat

a&m has run the ball more than it has thrown it and has 2 RBs on pace for > 1000 yds this year. They have rushed it 6 times less than UK but have accumulated 500 more yards. 19 TDs running the ball and only 9 throwing it. UK has 7 passing TDs on 100 fewer attempts. UK has also thrown 7 INTs vs only 5 by a&m.
With Boom averaging 7.1 yds/carry and Snell 5.6...you are stupid to throw it any more than necessary.

I want UK to do what they do best and right now that means the pound the rock. If a QB comes along that is accurate and has receivers that can catch and move the chains...we can do that then.
Offense is only important when it is effective.

 

[Jared1985]

The problem with being a defensive minded team is recruiting and talent is WAY more important to defense than it is offense. You can scheme your into a good offense....much much harder to do that with defense.

Kentucky would have to put together 15 or 20 years to be able to have enough recruiting power and prestige to be a type of program that can "play lock down defense and just enough offense to win". Hell LSU can't even do it anymore.

The problem is we won't get those 15 or 20 years of winning seasons being a defensive minded team with the type of talent we can realistically at this point.

The only way that EVER happens is if we get lucky enough to sign a Mike Leach type system coach who could scheme his way into winning seasons with less talent.

It's the reason why Stoops will ultimately (imo) fail. Even if he manages to put together a good offense (which I don't think he can) he'll lose his OC after every winning season.

 

[allabouttheUK]

The problem with being a defensive minded team is recruiting and talent is WAY more important to defense than it is offense. You can scheme your into a good offense....much much harder to do that with defense.

Kentucky would have to put together 15 or 20 years to be able to have enough recruiting power and prestige to be a type of program that can "play lock down defense and just enough offense to win". Hell LSU can't even do it anymore.

The problem is we won't get those 15 or 20 years of winning seasons being a defensive minded team with the type of talent we can realistically at this point.

The only way that EVER happens is if we get lucky enough to sign a Mike Leach type system coach who could scheme his way into winning seasons with less talent.

It's the reason why Stoops will ultimately (imo) fail. Even if he manages to put together a good offense (which I don't think he can) he'll lose his OC after every winning season.

Very good points, and I concede my point of view. I like the way you put it @Jared1985 makes a lot of sense.

 

[Blueaz]

I cant believe I am saying it, but we have a great shot at 6 wins now.

This isnt because the team has gotten much better, it has to do with how crazy the SEC is. And how pitiful the rest of our schedule performed this week. I wish Stoops luck in getting to 6. I dont think he is a very good coach. But I dont think he needs to be to beat atleast 3 of the teams left on our schedule.

Just my thoughts. I didnt think 6 wins was possible. But from what I have seen, any team left on our scheudle could either beat us by 40 or we beat them by 40. Thats how weird these teams are week-to-week. Impossible to predict.

Its very UK football-esque that the most positive looking week for our bowl game hopes is a bue week.

is this like the "vote of confidence"?
jk...I hope so, too

 

[WildCard]

Interesting thread. It has wandered all over the place. I'm not sure where to tag in so I'll go back to some thoughts by the OP

I cant believe I am saying it, but we have a great shot at 6 wins now.

This isnt because the team has gotten much better, it has to do with how crazy the SEC is. And how pitiful the rest of our schedule performed this week. I wish Stoops luck in getting to 6. I dont think he is a very good coach. But I dont think he needs to be to beat atleast 3 of the teams left on our schedule.

Just my thoughts. I didnt think 6 wins was possible. But from what I have seen, any team left on our scheudle could either beat us by 40 or we beat them by 40. Thats how weird these teams are week-to-week. Impossible to predict.

Its very UK football-esque that the most positive looking week for our bowl game hopes is a bue week.

I'm not going to comment about Stoop's future as the UK coach. He certainly hasn't knocked it out of the park but he deserves all of this year before making coning to any "conclusions". I think the remaining games against "peer opponents" MSU and MO will have a lot to do with it.

FWIW, I though in pre-season that a 6 win season was very achievable; not a given but certainly a real possibility. There were 7 games on the schedule that looked very winnable. The margin for error vanished in game 1 with the USM loss but a 6 win season is still very possible. And the Cats have won 2 of the 4 SEC games critical to to a 6 win season.

Which brings me to the SEC in particular. Without much question there is a historic amount of mediocrity in this once tough as nails division. The SECE looks even crazier now than it did in pre-season when it was looking like it would be GA, FL and TN then all the others. But even at the "top"...

GA has already lost 3 SEC games and pretty much dropped into the "others" category. I once considered that one a loss but now think the Cats have (much) more than just a puncher's chance.

FL leads the pack with just 1 loss but now sees a very important former home game with LSU moved to Red Stick. Plus an always dangerous trip to Piggyville.

TN has lost 2 games (and their football dignity in the AL thrashing) and has more injuries than a MASH unit. No "big" games left but opportunities to embarrass themselves.

And whoever "wins" the East gets one more loss in the Championship Game.
​

NM State stands at 2-4 and AP is 0-6. Lots of football left but UK could very conceivably have a 6 win season (including 4 in the SEC) and not have beaten a team with a winning record. Pretty damn weird.

Peace