TU Men's Soccer Fall 2025

[TU_BLA]

Think before you type. First of all, it can't cover the coaches salary. It is not meant to cover anything but scholarships. And you didn't read every post, and you do not know how I was figuring it nor did you read my subsequent posts where I spoke of actually putting money to the figure.

Second if you are spending the interest it does not compound. Third I was assuming the University is covering the scholarships like they were before, and adding the interest to additional scholarship amounts. It would be silly to not add it, because the 30m wouldn't even match up to the scholarship amount that the university was covering before the 30m simple interest was there.

Yes, if you were funding a full scholarship, 1.5m simple interest would not even cover it for 26 scholarships. But the university is not funding all 26 players either. Even if you were figuring compound interest that would only account for 35k additional funds, (if it were bringing in compound at 5%) which it is not. So the difference in compound interest would be negligible. You often don't read all the posts and don't correct yourself when you do read later posts, if that even happens.

It would take approx. 20M in interest to cover everyone at 70k. 30m won't bring in 66% simple interest. And that is what I was referencing in my later post. If the University were funding at the same level as the 30m brought in and it was doubled, that would only account for approx. a 10k scholarship for each athlete in the Olympic sports excluding basketball, at best. Likely with interest from 30m and scholarships school was already providing, it adds up to 12%-18% scholarships of total cost to attend, being funded by both the endowment and the school for 275 Olympic sports athletes.

I did read the post. If you saw the latter half of my post, you saw where I said it would take an endowed fund of $300M or so to cover athletic scholarships for everyone. And yes, I realize TU is not covering all 26 players on the men's soccer team with full scholarships covering the full cost of attendance. I know one of those players is covered by an employee benefit (Tom's son Ian).

What I think we can agree on is TU will find it much harder to compete without committing to fully funding every player on the roster (and other Olympic sports rosters) because while many peer schools may not be doing it now, they are working towards it. This is all new for this year so my guess is many will find that $ somewhere to compete for players and if we're not looking to do it within 5 years then we are absolutely handcuffing (and handicapping) our coaches before a game is ever played.

It is possible for smaller schools to compete at the highest levels in Olympic sports but those schools have to commit to the programs and that means $. Volleyball, Softball, soccer, etc. #2 team in the country right now (D1) is Bryant. Bryant is tiny like TU (3200 UGs) and it's in Smithfield, RI, about 20 min NW of Providence. I can tell you Smithfield is not a happening place but they've committed to bringing D1 athletics to the school. Last year the University of Vermont won the national championship. Burlington is a great place for hippies and skiers and ice hockey, and if you like Ben & Jerry's. UVM is a really good school but no one would mistake it as a destination for great soccer players. It gets cold in early October and doesn't warm up until May (if they're lucky).

The athletic dept. and the university together need to ask themselves why they sponsor D1 athletics. Is it to say they're D1 and attract students or do they actually want to be able to compete at that level because the current landscape requires significant financial investment to achieve that. Is it they just really want D1 basketball and football?

 

[Gmoney4WW]

I did read the post. If you saw the latter half of my post, you saw where I said it would take an endowed fund of $300M or so to cover athletic scholarships for everyone. And yes, I realize TU is not covering all 26 players on the men's soccer team with full scholarships covering the full cost of attendance. I know one of those players is covered by an employee benefit (Tom's son Ian).

What I think we can agree on is TU will find it much harder to compete without committing to fully funding every player on the roster (and other Olympic sports rosters) because while many peer schools may not be doing it now, they are working towards it. This is all new for this year so my guess is many will find that $ somewhere to compete for players and if we're not looking to do it within 5 years then we are absolutely handcuffing (and handicapping) our coaches before a game is ever played.

It is possible for smaller schools to compete at the highest levels in Olympic sports but those schools have to commit to the programs and that means $. Volleyball, Softball, soccer, etc. #2 team in the country right now (D1) is Bryant. Bryant is tiny like TU (3200 UGs) and it's in Smithfield, RI, about 20 min NW of Providence. I can tell you Smithfield is not a happening place but they've committed to bringing D1 athletics to the school. Last year the University of Vermont won the national championship. Burlington is a great place for hippies and skiers and ice hockey, and if you like Ben & Jerry's. UVM is a really good school but no one would mistake it as a destination for great soccer players. It gets cold in early October and doesn't warm up until May (if they're lucky).

The athletic dept. and the university together need to ask themselves why they sponsor D1 athletics. Is it to say they're D1 and attract students or do they actually want to be able to compete at that level because the current landscape requires significant financial investment to achieve that. Is it they just really want D1 basketball and football?

To truly finance approx. 275 student athletes fully, at your stated full cost of $70k, it would actually take more like 400m to finance it by itself at your stated interest rate of 5% in simple interest. You can subtract the 1-2m that the school is already covering in scholarships, before there ever was an endowment. But that is a negligible amount. It's just really irritating that I was talking in vague terms, and you stated that the endowment did not work that way. When you had no idea how I was figuring the total amounts necessary for fully funding all non Olympic sports athletes. And one scholarship for a single coach doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Most coaches do not have a son or daughter on the team. That's a red herring on the line. That scholarship is only 7/8ths of tuition. So that amounts to 42k.

 

[TU_BLA]

To truly finance approx. 275 student athletes fully, at your stated full cost of $70k, it would actually take more like 400m to finance it by itself at your stated interest rate of 5% in simple interest. You can subtract the 1-2m that the school is already covering in scholarships, before there ever was an endowment. But that is a negligible amount. It's just really irritating that I was talking in vague terms, and you stated that the endowment did not work that way. When you had no idea how I was figuring the total amounts necessary for fully funding all non Olympic sports athletes. And one scholarship for a single coach doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Most coaches do not have a son or daughter on the team. That's a red herring on the line. That scholarship is only 7/8ths of tuition. So that amounts to 42k.

My figure was based on 200 but yes, we have more than that so your figure, for fully endowed athletic scholarships is closer to what is needed.

And fully endowing the athletic program with actual cash to cover those scholarships would be GIANT to TU's operating budget because right now those scholarships are nothing more than magic accounting and moving $ around on balance sheets

 

[Gmoney4WW]

My figure was based on 200 but yes, we have more than that so your figure, for fully endowed athletic scholarships is closer to what is needed.

And fully endowing the athletic program with actual cash to cover those scholarships would be GIANT to TU's operating budget because right now those scholarships are nothing more than magic accounting and moving $ around on balance sheets

My figure was really rough but double checked. I flipped through the various athletic rosters and added up non basketball and football players in my head. Then I took the basketball and football rosters and subtracted them from the over 400 athletes that is quoted by the University and the figures were around 275ish, with a small # subtracted for walk-on status. It isn't an exact figure, but a good enough figure to do a rough estimate of the outlay for scholarships.

 

[drboobay]

They have won three conference games in a row and also beat Creighton early this season I think. At least they have a decent shot to make the conference tourney for the first time in three years.

 

[TU_BLA]

I watched last night's game on ESPN+ in between shuttling my daughter around town for various things. This game was one of the more boring games I have watched at any level recently. Very little happening in the attacking 1/3 for either time outside of a couple legit chances for both teams. In between the awful turnovers for TU in the 1st half, they carried more possession for sure but it rarely got to be dangerous in the attacking 1/3. My son would call some of their chances "1/2 chances". TU always wants to force play inside once they get to the attacking 1/3 when there was some legit options to push the ball deeper into the corner before sending their cross in. What getting the ball deeper does is actually open up little spaces to bring the ball back and the let the MF or FB send in the crosses to the top of the box or penalty spot when the defenders have sagged closer to the goal line. Of course TU was trying to give the game away late with some really bad turnovers and just settling to clear the ball out over the touchline deep allowing MoSt to take some deep throw ins to the area.

This TU side lacks the ability to work the ball through the MF easily and put defenders on their heels and they have no true 9 to attack. And the GK is not very good. He's listed at 6'0" but I'd be shocked if he's over 5'10...he looks about the same size as my son in goal. My son is better with the ball at his feet and in possession distribution. I haven't seen anything from this GK that he's a better shot stopper either.

It also sucks that the AACs preseason defender of the year hasn't played at all this season because of injury. I'm sure that has really hurt TU some but the lack of a goal scorer is really the bigger issue for TU.

TU has some absolutely atrocious losses in non-conference games this season. Win 2-3 of them and their 6-6-3 or 7-5-3 and not looking terrible. They're likely to make the AAC tournament with their recent 4 game unbeaten streak in conference

 

[Gmoney4WW]

At least we know the staff hasn't lost their touch coaching and training.

 

[drboobay]

The 70k is not a hard and fast number at all btw. Many things are fungible. I do think TU is doing well covering tuition in most sports, and more.

 

[TU_BLA]

Men earned a 0-0 draw at FAU yesterday and clinched a spot in the conference tournament.

 

[lawpoke87]

Men earned a 0-0 draw at FAU yesterday and clinched a spot in the conference tournament.

Pretty good result. Hopefully we can make some noise this week in the conference tourney.

 

[TU_BLA]

Pretty good result. Hopefully we can make some noise this week in the conference tourney.

This team is so hit or miss. In the past I would have felt confident about TU pushing games to OT and then to PKs as I felt they had some great GKs back there for about the last 6-8 years. I would not feel that confident this year.

 

[TU_BLA]

I trash the GK for not being very good and a couple of days later he's named Top Drawer's player of the week and part of the top XI for the last week...what am I missing?

 

[lawpoke87]

I trash the GK for not being very good and a couple of days later he's named Top Drawer's player of the week and part of the top XI for the last week...what am I missing?

He had a nice game in a shutout against Fla Atlantic. Seven saves. Two clean sheets in a row.

 

[TU_BLA]

He had a nice game in a shutout against Fla Atlantic. Seven saves. Two clean sheets in a row.

I just haven't been impressed with his overall game. I tend to look at GKs for more than just their shot-stopping abilities.

I get he's had 2 straight clean sheets. I didn't see the FAU game but coming away with a clean sheet and draw in that one is certainly a really nice result. I did watch the MoState game...MoState didn't really create any danger at all in that game outside of the last 30 seconds on a couple of deep throw-ins and a corner.

 

[lawpoke87]

I just haven't been impressed with his overall game. I tend to look at GKs for more than just their shot-stopping abilities.

I get he's had 2 straight clean sheets. I didn't see the FAU game but coming away with a clean sheet and draw in that one is certainly a really nice result. I did watch the MoState game...MoState didn't really create any danger at all in that game outside of the last 30 seconds on a couple of deep throw-ins and a corner.

He had a really nice game against Florida Atl. Faced 19 shots and made 7 saves. I admit I’m not near your level when it comes to goalie evaluation. Now if you ever want to talk center backs then I’m good to go.

 

[Li'l Eric Coley]

19 shots and only 7 saves?! I would've turned another 6 of those shots into saves b/c I'm one helluvan actor!

 

[TU_BLA]

He had a really nice game against Florida Atl. Faced 19 shots and made 7 saves. I admit I’m not near your level when it comes to goalie evaluation. Now if you ever want to talk center backs then I’m good to go.

Yeah, I admittedly didn't get to watch that game. But I have watched several games this season and my biggest concern is his ineffectiveness with the ball at his feet and his vision of the field in distribution. And maybe I've been spoiled because for 4 years TU had Alex back there and he was simply the best in the country with the ball at his feet

 

[TU_BLA]

19 shots and only 7 saves?! I would've turned another 6 of those shots into saves b/c I'm one helluvan actor!

This is where soccer stats go wonky. At least in the NHL they only record shots on goal so your SOG-SHOTS SAVED = # of goals scored. Only in the rare instance an empty net goal is scored do your shots and shots saved difference not necessarily equal the goals scored. Higher level soccer they differentiate between shots attempted and shots on goal because they are used in figuring out the Expected Goals stat (which I don't really understand but my son can calculate in his head as the game is going on and it's actively changing because minutes played...and apparently there is a "danger multiplier" as part of the calculation which takes into account the distance from goal, # of defenders nearby, etc. )

And I have also noticed that college soccer statisticians are extremely lenient on what they count as a shot attempted...i.e. the long over the top ball that the keeper comes up to grab occasionally gets counted as a shot depending on how friendly the stat guy is that night.

 

[Li'l Eric Coley]

And I have also noticed that college soccer statisticians are extremely lenient on what they count as a shot attempted...i.e. the long over the top ball that the keeper comes up to grab occasionally gets counted as a shot depending on how friendly the stat guy is that night.

Yeah, that's pretty silly. With DonTom retired, who the heck is going to tell the work-study he or she is stoo-pid?

 

[TU_BLA]

TU beats USF 3-2 in extra time (golden goal). Maybe the best I e seen TU from an attack standpoint all season. I probably got to watch about 1/2 the game and outside of a ragged 10 minutes in the first half where they gave up 2 quick goals, TU really had USF on their heels much of the game. Last 10 minutes TU really turned the screws on USF and forced what I call some desperate defending.

In the extra period, TU sent the ball deep off the kick, USF GK just tried to play a long ball that TU won and the TU player who found the position literally went 50 yards straight through the middle of the field with little to no resistance from USF, laid a nice ball off to his left and that player wasn’t able to get a shot off and laid it back across the box where a TU player slotted it back inside the post for the winner. 42 seconds into the 1st extra period. It really was a crazy sequence.

TU gets to face off against FAU next…another winnable game if they play with the same energy they played with tonight.

 

[TU_BLA]

TU currently on ESPN+ in the 1st AAC semifinal vs. FAU. FAU's stud forward (2x AAC offensive POY) picked up a yellow card within the 1st 10 minutes on an ill-advised (and quite frankly unneeded) challenge with TU trying to work the ball out of their own half.

So far TU has had the better of the ball and attack although FAU looks dangerous playing the ball over the top but TU's CBs seem to have a nice grasp of what FAU is trying to do. And it looks like there is a Tulsa boy as one of the ARs in the game.

 

[lawpoke87]

Down 0-2 with 20 minutes to play. Need to find the net quickly or our season will be over.

TU loses 0-3. Disappointed the game wasn’t more competitive

 

[GWSCDad]

TU was better when we had more American based players that were just tough and gritty. 2021 was mostly American and Local talent Tulsa, OKC, Dallas.

 

[TU_BLA]

Down 0-2 with 20 minutes to play. Need to find the net quickly or our season will be over.

TU loses 0-3. Disappointed the game wasn’t more competitive

The game went from pretty even to down 2-0 really quickly towards the end of the 1st half and that seemed to be the way things went for TU most of the season.

 

[TU_BLA]

In looking at the final 16 of the men’s tourney, 5 of the top 8 teams are out including #s 1-3. Maryland at 4 is the highest seed remaining. There are a ton of “mid majors” left in the draw. So many upsets. Hofstra took out #1 Vermont in the Vermont’s 1st game (2nd round).

Mid Majors left are High Point, Portland, Grand Canyon, Furman, Hofstra, Akron, Bryant, SLU, UNC Greensboro. That leaves 7 teams from major conferences left (Maryland, Georgetown, Duke, NC State, Stanford, Washington , UCONN). UCONN plays MD so that will eliminate 1, Stanford and Washington play so that will eliminate a 2nd one. Duke plays a higher seeded team in Akron.

Point is, it’s possible for TU to compete at the highest level in the NCAA in soccer. We need to get the players in and give Tom the resources to help get them here. I’m a firm believer Tim’s style is a winning one. We’ve seen it before when you have the quality players.

 

[lawpoke87]

With international players now the norm, smaller schools can be on fairly even footing with their power conference mates if they have good connections abroad. TU’s 2025 class has 13 new members. Of those 13, ten are international players. Not sure what that says about the development of boys here in the states compared to abroad. Actually…I am fairly sure.

 

[TU_BLA]

With international players now the norm, smaller schools can be on fairly even footing with their power conference mates if they have good connections abroad. TU’s 2025 class has 13 new members. Of those 13, ten are international players. Not sure what that says about the development of boys here in the states compared to abroad. Actually…I am fairly sure.

We know international players’ focus is on technical development throughout the youth programs. The idea of those youth academies is to ID and develop potential 1st team pros. We know the focus behind most of the youth clubs in the states…$$$ and then winning and then development.

 

[lawpoke87]

Talked to a men’s college head soccer coach today about recruiting European players. Something he does extensively. He said most have played a couple years of professional ball which gives them an advantage over our homegrown 18 year old player. He has a spreadsheet he uses in applying to the NCAA for eligibility for those players who have played professionally overseas. Fascinated all the things the NCAA considers in determining whether they qualify as amateurs.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Talked to a men’s college head soccer coach today about recruiting European players. Something he does extensively. He said most have played a couple years of professional ball which gives them an advantage over our homegrown 18 year old player. He has a spreadsheet he uses in applying to the NCAA for eligibility for those players who have played professionally overseas. Fascinated all the things the NCAA considers in determining whether they qualify as amateurs.

Do they have to be amateurs now, seeing as how we pay players? That seems like a ridiculous requirement now. If they made any real money, they likely wouldn't be coming to play college ball here, and be applying in the first place. Maybe a guy that gets injured early, and wants to play himself back into playing shape and get a college degree might rehab themselves back into playing shape and then hopefully go back to their multi million dollar career, but that's doubtful.

 

[lawpoke87]

Do they have to be amateurs now, seeing as how we pay players? That seems like a ridiculous requirement now. If they made any real money, they likely wouldn't be coming to play college ball here, and be applying in the first place. Maybe a guy that gets injured early, and wants to play himself back into playing shape and get a college degree might rehab themselves back into playing shape and then hopefully go back to their multi million dollar career, but that's doubtful.

Athletes must still meet NCAA amateurism requirements. There are several items which must be satisfied one of which is the pay cannot exceed actual or necessary expenses. Schools often get creative here.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Athletes must still meet NCAA amateurism requirements. There are several items which must be satisfied one of which is the pay cannot exceed actual or necessary expenses. Schools often get creative here.

Yeah thats not hypocritical when a lot of the athletes are getting paid way in excess of 100k.

 

[lawpoke87]

Yeah thats not hypocritical when a lot of the athletes are getting paid way in excess of 100k.

The NCAA and hypocrisy go hand in hand. This is one of the few restrictions the NCAA can still enforce so they are going guns a blazing

 

[TU1NNJ]

The NCAA and hypocrisy go hand in hand. This is one of the few restrictions the NCAA can still enforce so they are going guns a blazing

I have not been that critical of the NCAA after the OU and UGA TV lawsuit. That neutered the NCAA and they never recovered.

 

[lawpoke87]

I have not been that critical of the NCAA after the OU and UGA TV lawsuit. That neutered the NCAA and they never recovered.

The NCAA was suspending players for taking a cheeseburger or accepting a plane ticket to fly home to be with a sick parent all the while making hundreds of millions of dollars of those same kids. I have no love for the hypocrites at the NCAA. In fact, I largely blame their arrogance for the current state of college athletics

 

[TU1NNJ]

The NCAA was suspending players for taking a cheeseburger or accepting a plane ticket to fly home to be with a sick parent all the while making hundreds of millions of dollars of those same kids. I have no love for the hypocrites at the NCAA. In fact, I largely blame their arrogance for the current state of college athletics

My thoughts are the NCAA held to their mission of ensuring collegiate athletics remained an amateur product. This is consistent with Universities which saw athletics as a compliment to their mission of educating young men and women.

Some alumni and supporters corrupted this mission by paying players, offering inducement, etc… going back to at least the 40’s. When caught the programs were punished to deter schools, alumni and supporters from continuing to do so. When caught those schools fans cried that the NCAA was unfair. The fans mentality was every school was doing it (which they weren’t) and we just got caught. So they turned the argument to it isn’t fair for our school not to get more of the TV money (OU and UGA - two of the biggest abusers) and those poor mistreated athletes need protection.

Under the original mandate Athletes received full tuition and board scholarships. Most received real jobs in the summer which paid fair value. That money covered most of our expenses during the year. Was it perfect? No. It was however much more in line with what the Universities are supposed to be. The NCAA football and men’s basketball revenue was from TV and NCAA basketball tournament and went back to the schools and conferences which paid for the non-revenue sports.

The new argument by the four conferences (see the millions they are spending on advertising during football games) about how they are supporting women’s athletics by increased funding. This is the current battlefield for more autonomy. If those conferences get their way total scholarships across athletics for women (and men too) will decrease because other schools will continue dropping programs at an accelerated rate. Their is know way those 4 conferences are going to add enough scholarships to cover what is being lost.

College athletics needs a powerful oversight body. You can argue it should not be the NCAA but it can’t be the foxes (those four conferences) guarding the hen house. That concept has led us from the imperfect but consistent system of the 1920’s to 1980’s to the Wild West we have today where outlaws are imposing their “law” without regard to the consequences on the larger fundamental impact on athletes and athletics as a whole.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

There are good reasons for the arguments of the NCAA and Power Schools, and even non power schools, and their are bad reasons. And the good reasons for the rules, are the same valid arguments against wih the bad reasons.

The bad reasons for nil for instance is the ncaa and power schools greed. The good reasons are that no matter how much you want to argue against it, at some point it may lead to disillusioned fans of the sports, and less money that it earns both the ncaa, the power schools, and in turn the student athletes.

We have not given it enough time yet to realize if this will happen before its all over. That can be a long term slow event to occur, even now though it is going in the opposite direction from that. Check it in 10 or 12 years to see the long term effects. If it is keeping up it's earnings at the rate of inflation, then it was probably a worthwhile decision that hurt schools like ours but is fairer to the students. Or if the sports earn much less then it was a serious mistake. And you can make similar positive and negative arguments for and against multiple transfers under the portal unlimited transfer regulation.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

There are good reasons for the arguments of the NCAA and Power Schools, and even non power schools, and their are bad reasons. And the good reasons for the rules, are the same valid arguments against wih the bad reasons.

The bad reasons for nil for instance is the ncaa and power schools greed. The good reasons are that no matter how much you want to argue against it, at some point it may lead to disillusioned fans of the sports, and less money that it earns both the ncaa, the power schools, and in turn the student athletes.

We have not given it enough time yet to realize if this will happen before its all over. That can be a long term slow event to occur, even now though it is going in the opposite direction from that. Check it in 10 or 12 years to see the long term effects. If it is keeping up it's earnings at the rate of inflation, then it was probably a worthwhile decision that hurt schools like ours but is fairer to the students. Or if the sports earn much less then it was a serious mistake. And you can make similar positive and negative arguments for and against multiple transfers under the portal unlimited transfer regulation.

Man almighty I wasnt posting with clarity last night. Psuedo fixed. I could still put this more clearly, but it is clear enough in five seconds time and that is goood enough.