What happened to LBP and Serra ?
- Thread starter GLYCERINE
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I have been wondering about that too. Are they just victims of the Trinity powers expanding their draw and recruiting efforts? Are there just more kids making the 45, 60, and 90 minute drives to Bosco and MD?
I don’t know by the last big player we signed from LBP was Jack Jones, what 5 or 6 years ago?
There are a couple of dynamics at play. In the case of Long Beach Poly, LBUSD has an open-enrollment policy and as mentioned, the private schools are scooping up kids. They do have a ton of young talent in the pipeline C/O 23 and 24 recruits to keep an eye on. Will they still be at Poly or will they move on? Stephen Barbee is the HC and is trying to rebuild.
One starting point for Serra would be for their alumni to start paying it forward and help with facilities and infrastructure stuff.
Mission Viejo, is in a different situation. I spoke to a prominent HC from the area and it basically came down to, the talent-pool of kids available in their area is shrinking. Families that grew up in the area are not moving out and young families are not replacing the kids who have grown and moved on with new ones. When I attended the LBPoly/MV game at Veterans Stadium a few weeks ago, Poly barely had a 40-man roster.
A lot of schools cannot field a varsity, JV, and freshman squad anymore. Just not enough kids playing football.
There's also the paradigm shift from contact sports from future generations.
One starting point for Serra would be for their alumni to start paying it forward and help with facilities and infrastructure stuff.
Mission Viejo, is in a different situation. I spoke to a prominent HC from the area and it basically came down to, the talent-pool of kids available in their area is shrinking. Families that grew up in the area are not moving out and young families are not replacing the kids who have grown and moved on with new ones. When I attended the LBPoly/MV game at Veterans Stadium a few weeks ago, Poly barely had a 40-man roster.
A lot of schools cannot field a varsity, JV, and freshman squad anymore. Just not enough kids playing football.
There's also the paradigm shift from contact sports from future generations.
There's been a lot of realignment across Southern California. Plus, I do think success is cyclical in a lot of areas.
This is likely one of the main contributors. There are a of kids on D1 rosters, and the pros, who attended high schools 45-60 minutes away from home. Private high schools, at least some, have the ability to offer scholarship money to the most talented. Right now, the Trinity League has 3 teams in the top 10 in the country. Could be the year Servite finally gets that Mater Dei monkey off their back....but probably not.
Mission Viejo used to get kids who would drive because of Coach Bob Johnson and the "ag" program at Mission which allowed transfer kids to do a rules run around. Now that Johnson is retired and the new transfer rules made the ag program less necessary, the talent is still there but off from 4-5 years ago.
I'm surprised at Poly having a difficult time fielding a 40-man roster. Just shows how aggressive the private schools are in poaching all the considerable talent from that area. Serra is obviously the closest, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of these Long Beach kids are driving down to Santa Ana and Anaheim or Bellflower or elsewhere to play football.
Probably like the modern SEC, So Cal private high schools are in an arms race with each other and willing to do whatever it takes to be like Mater Dei and SJB.
The lack of football playing kids is a long-term trend that is nationwide, and not just a California thing. Parents these days are more leery of their sons playing a sport where they judge that the long-term effects outweigh the momentary joys and glories of playing a glamorous pastime.
Also, I think part of the hesitation of letting their sons play football stems from the enormous size of high school players today. A generation ago, I recall that the Washington Redskins (yes, they were still called that then, so suck it PC police) offensive line, the famed "Hogs" of the late 1980s, was notable for being not just very good at what they did, but were also (IIRC) the first offensive line in football anywhere that averaged over 300 pounds per man. And that was in the pros, the highest level of football. In those same years, my own high school's football team, one which was very competitive and sent numerous D1 athletes to Pac10 schools, had a center who was probably like 185 pounds, and an all-League tackle who was maybe like 6-0 and about 220.
Nowadays, that Washington offensive line would look puny next to the offensive lines of schools like Mater Dei, SJB, Bishop Gorman, IMG, etc.
From my casual observations of kids in general that attend school with my own kids, I'd say that the average size of a typical high schooler hasn't changed much since I was in high school. Maybe there is a higher percentage of fat kids, but the same proportion of gangly 135-pound boys still seems to hold true today.
So, a parent whose average-sized son (call him 5-10 and 160lbs.) says, Mom, I want to play football - looks at the monsters that populate high school football rosters these days and probably feels a lot more nervous seeing boys that look like grown-*** men than the parent of 30-40 years ago when most of the other boys on the team looked similar to their own son.
Poly had a handful of players not suited up due to injury, but yeah.
When I played HS ball in the LBUSD, it was 10th-12th grades. We had a sophomore, JV, and Varsity squads.
Here's an example of just how far.....
Joey Yellen originally started at Bosco, driving from Coto de Caza to Bellflower. Too deep in the depth chart so he made a move to San Clemente. Same thing. Finally landed at Mission Viejo, even though he wasn't in that district. He ended up at ASU....but moved on from there as well. And did anyone really think Olaijah Griffin's dad lived in the Saddleback Valley USD?
Kids are going to Bosco, MD, Servite, ect. You have to remember how close Bosco (Bellflower) is to Long Beach and it’s right next to the frwy.
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From my observation, it's a combination of several factors.
First, I'd say the overall football playing population is smaller then it was in the past, simply not as many kids playing as they used to. When my son went to Servite, there were 100 kids on the freshman roster, and 150 or so on varsity/JV. Now, it's about 60 freshman and 90 varsity/JV.
Second, the change in transfer rules by CIF allows kids to move around more freely than ever without having to sit out. I recall that you used to have to sit out a full season when you transferred. Now, eligibility is usually granted immediately.
Third, the talent that does exist is far more concentrated at a select few schools, in particular St. John Bosco and Mater Dei. If you believe the reporting, those schools each have 30+ D1 prospects on 100+ strong varsity rosters. When you take into account other prominent schools such as Sierra Canyon, Alemany, Servite, Santa Margarita, Los Alamitos and Corona Centennial, that's a lot of potential D1 prospects across just a handful of schools, leaving fewer prospects to be distributed elsewhere.
First, I'd say the overall football playing population is smaller then it was in the past, simply not as many kids playing as they used to. When my son went to Servite, there were 100 kids on the freshman roster, and 150 or so on varsity/JV. Now, it's about 60 freshman and 90 varsity/JV.
Second, the change in transfer rules by CIF allows kids to move around more freely than ever without having to sit out. I recall that you used to have to sit out a full season when you transferred. Now, eligibility is usually granted immediately.
Third, the talent that does exist is far more concentrated at a select few schools, in particular St. John Bosco and Mater Dei. If you believe the reporting, those schools each have 30+ D1 prospects on 100+ strong varsity rosters. When you take into account other prominent schools such as Sierra Canyon, Alemany, Servite, Santa Margarita, Los Alamitos and Corona Centennial, that's a lot of potential D1 prospects across just a handful of schools, leaving fewer prospects to be distributed elsewhere.
Spoke to a HS coach at a public school from a blue collar community. He said the main reasons for low participation in HS FB are the cost factor, under budgeted booster clubs and low family incomes. He said the cost for a set of practice uniforms, shoes, helmets and game uniforms are about $1,200 to $1,300 per player. The cost of playing football is expensive (other expenses are involved, 7 on 7 tournaments, travel expenses, summer camps, recruiting expenses, etc.) He said the total cost per season is well over $2,000 per player. Their booster club were having a difficult time coming up with the funds to subsidize a big team. He could only field a Varsity team of 36 players, the JV team only 28 players.
At every level of FB (youth, JV, Varsity) team booster clubs help fund/subsidize FB cost, but they vary in budgets. And, if the B.Club funds are not enough, families must cover the rest. Some communities have wealthier families and booster clubs. At his school where families are struggling to pay their bills, it's tough to recruit & get kids to play. He said, there were so much talent at his school of about 3,200 student body, it was frustrating seeing these kids not play FB.
Richer, white collar communities and private schools have well funded booster clubs + scholarships. That's why kids transfer to these schools, everything are basically free.
Shoot, in my time everything was free, we only had to buy shoes. We had a Varsity team of 55 players and JV team of 45 players. Our student body was fairly small, about 1,200 kids, 9th to 12th grades. Somehow my school (public) provided everything...
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Only one sport/activity I know that's more expensive than football. And that's cheerleading.
And you are 100% correct. The costs involved to put a player on the field at all levels are significant. Those private schools will always have scholarship money for the top 2% willing to drive. They just want to win.
Yes, and God forbid your kid wants to play goalie...
VBall, Shoot did not know that about cheer-leading. Years ago, a couple of my friends had daughters take dance lessons (sometimes up to 6 different styles) starting 7 yrs all the way to 12th grade and hearing them complain about the high cost for lessons, clothes, dance shoes, recital outfits, travel cost (competition). Heck having girls take up sports can be costly. Heck what about golf and even tennis, those are costly sports too. But, it's all good. I believe extra curricular activities are good for kids. Keeps them out of trouble and sports teach valuable life lessons...
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Right - cost is a factor i think has ramped up hugely in the last generation or two.
Not just the cost of uniforms and equipment and such, but these days, if your kid wants to play a sport in high school, then they darn well better have started playing that sport at least by age 10, if they are to have developed the requisite skill level and experience to play effectively in HS. Unless your kid is an uber-gifted athlete who can quickly learn and play a sport with minimal experience, most of the time your child will need to have several years of playing experience if they want to make the team in HS. And that means all that time the parents are paying for club teams, travel, private coaches, etc.
So, not surprising that otherwise excellent athletes from families that can't afford that simply don't pursue sports, or don't pursue it to the degree where they might be in position to earn a scholarship.
Not just the cost of uniforms and equipment and such, but these days, if your kid wants to play a sport in high school, then they darn well better have started playing that sport at least by age 10, if they are to have developed the requisite skill level and experience to play effectively in HS. Unless your kid is an uber-gifted athlete who can quickly learn and play a sport with minimal experience, most of the time your child will need to have several years of playing experience if they want to make the team in HS. And that means all that time the parents are paying for club teams, travel, private coaches, etc.
So, not surprising that otherwise excellent athletes from families that can't afford that simply don't pursue sports, or don't pursue it to the degree where they might be in position to earn a scholarship.
Trojan Wes Horton is coaching there. They have seen a decline in enrollment as a lot of kids from the area are going to Alemany, and others.
I was in LBUSD from 1956-1968. and still live there. The districts were rigid and you went to school where you lived which meant the schools in the larger districts (Wilson, Lakewood, Poly, and Millikan) had larger rosters and more better players to choose fom than a school like Jordan which had only 2/3 of their enrollment. Then there was St. Anthony who was able to siphon off the cream of the Catholic crop. The equalizer for Poly was that it was fully integrated whereas the other schools weren't. When Poly started getting good again around 1980, it was because they were drawing students from surrounding cities, not Long Beach. Long Beach is now a wasteland for high school football.
For youth sports overall, absolutely. Followed by boy's lacrosse and then football. Even though cheerleading is officially a high school sanctioned sport, it doesn't make these traditional youth sports lists.
For me, I was going with your basic high school sports lineup.....football, basketball, baseball, etc. Hockey and lacrosse aren't quite at the basic level because they are regionally focused. Kids out here play hockey but all club and of course those costs are ridiculous. I bet if we considered dancers and gymnasts with their 5-10 $3k each sequined outfits, they probably out-cost everything.
Joke among hockey players is that if you want to play goalie, you have to be slightly crazy or you can't skate well enough to play the other positions.
Is Coto no longer in SVUSD? When I was a wee little guy the Coto kids (I had several cousins there) were going to Trabuco Hills!
Still low cost but just for future info, for running cross country, new running shoes every 2 to 3 months and then race flats. Once it gets to track season and they do middle distance on the track they need practice practice shoes every 2 to 3 months and then race spikes.
Still totally overall low cost but it's a pain to have to get to the shoe store every few months. It's shocking how quickly they go through a pair of shoes. And if you can, find a specialty store like snails pace. The stuff you can buy at a regular sporting goods store will fit but they won't spend the time to make sure the shoe fits properly for the way they put wear on the shoe.
That makes a lot of sense. My Aunt's neighborhood in Mission Viejo reminds me of leisure world!
No. Coto kids mostly go to Tesoro, which is Capo Unified, and a few to San Juan Hills with permission. Dove Canyon kids go to Mission. Trabuco is mostly RSM, Foothill Ranch, and some Mission Viejo kids. Mission and Trabuco are both SVUSD. Mission is Div 1 for football but not for any of their other sports because they are considered a small school. Trabuco has about twice the student population so they are D1 for everything except football.
Trabuco isn't much of a football school but they are an outstanding track school. And this year they had an outstanding baseball team.
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If I remember correctly from the early 80's, a lot of the talent pool for Poly was coming from the west side of Long Beach and over the bridge into the South Bay when Carson and Wilmington were powerhouses. Then Jaso took over around 85' and the program took off.
Yep, you went to school where you were zoned and that became advantage Poly over the rest of the Moore League. Millikan became the baseball school, Wilson the water sports school, and every now and then Lakewood and Wilson would pop a good football team.
If you find a pair that fits and he is mostly done growing - buy two or three. Shoe companies "upgrade" perfectly good models and make changes that can really change the fit.
Low cost in High School but if he plays club soccer your costs just skyrocketed. My son's club team just qualified for the Northwest conference, Which is a semi-big deal. That means our boys need to travel from central Oregon to Portland, Seattle, Boise, Vegas and AZ to play "conference" games. I mean it's great exposure and competition but costs will be high. I think Norcal teams still have to travel in their section of the conference to some distant games.
Did they have to make a special rule to allow you to play on the sophomore team as a senior?
All valid points above, but there's one big one I don't think I saw mentioned - quality of education. We lived a few blocks from De La Salle High School for many years and knew many of the DLS parents. Yes you had to be a top athlete in the East Bay, but the educational, religious and societal requirements were rigid. How many financially disadvantaged parents want their sons to go to a place like that to avoid CRT and actually learn math, reading and writing skills? I know it's primarily about football skills and maybe hope to escape their parents' situation through sports, but if not, they are taught the skills they need to compete in life.