What no one wants to hear

[Piscis]

South Carolina is not an attractive program to coaches or coordinators who are in any sort of demand or in their prime coaching years. Look at the past coaches and coordinators and point out how many have gone on to be hired as a head coach somewhere else. South Carolina is known as a coaches career graveyard. We drug two hall of fame coaches out of retirement and both left with their legacies tarnished and neither one won a championship. Muschamp went to UGA as an analyst and Asst DC for a year or two. Brad Scott went to Clemson. Sparky Woods ended up a big time loser at VMI. Joe Morrison died young. Carlen ended his career after coaching here and Dietzel did the same. There has never been a head coach at South Carolina who went on to be a head coach anywhere else. I look for Beamer to be a position coach at his next stop if he decides to keep coaching.

Established coaches and coordinators who want to have successful careers don't look to South Carolina as a place make or help it happen. G5 or FCS coaches and coordinators who are looking for a step up to P4 are the inventory we really have to pick from. The "we should go get _________" talk about big name coaches or coordinators is foolish. They don't want to come to South Carolina.

Money isn't the answer. In demand coaches know they can get money wherever they go and the really good ones are already making very good money. Those G5 and FCS coordinators who are making $200,000 a year can be lured with money, same with the head coaches making $500,000 a year. I still think Chadwell was the biggest miss ever.

 

[cofcgamecock9]

It is hard to argue some of your individual facts, but I think the overall idea is off.

I think it is more of the fact that SC just continue to make really bad hiring decisions and passes over great decisions.

Eli Drinkiwitz would have happily taken a job at SC. When he was coaching at Appalachian State. Chadwell would have happily come to SC. Cignetti would have happily taken the head coaching job at SC when he was at JMU.

We could have hired any of these guys plus I am sure a lot more just like them that have gone on to be successful.

But we don't. We always miss on the guys that end up being great coaches.

 

[sclawman77]

Like I said last week and is well known, coaches here either die (RIP Joe), retire or take a lower job in coaching after they're done here. Graveyard of coaching. We are not that appealing no doubt combined with not much success in our past and being in the SEC. And Shane won't get another D1 head coaching job if we can him. That's a given. He was a TE coach after 20 years coaching in college (never a coordinator) when we hired him as head coach.

Guess we have to hope to get lucky with our next big hire. Up to Donati.

 

[Ole Cockeye]

As far as a HC is concerned, I would hope we are not viewed as a career stepping stone.

 

[Lurker123]

As far as a HC is concerned, I would hope we are not viewed as a career stepping stone.

I would rather be a stepping stone than the "coach's graveyard ".

I always thought that if we were a stepping stone, the guy was at least succeeding while he was here.

 

[Lurker123]

Established coaches and coordinators who want to have successful careers don't look to South Carolina as a place make or help it happen. G5 or FCS coaches and coordinators who are looking for a step up to P4 are the inventory we really have to pick from. The "we should go get _________" talk about big name coaches or coordinators is foolish. They don't want to come to South Carolina.

I agree with this completely.

Some like to think of getting the "hot name" candidate, but we'll always be one of the lower tier jobs available. Or at least not one of the destination positions.

Some rightfully argue that pulling the old guy was the only times we really had success.

But imo, we need to pull from either P4 coordinators or G5 head coaches.

It's a crap shoot all around, so people can pull examples of failures in the past, or argue that its not guaranteed, so why bother trying. The truth is, we need to work on identifying the smaller school coach that would be open to making a go here.

 

[Legal_fowl]

South Carolina is not an attractive program to coaches or coordinators who are in any sort of demand or in their prime coaching years. Look at the past coaches and coordinators and point out how many have gone on to be hired as a head coach somewhere else. South Carolina is known as a coaches career graveyard. We drug two hall of fame coaches out of retirement and both left with their legacies tarnished and neither one won a championship. Muschamp went to UGA as an analyst and Asst DC for a year or two. Brad Scott went to Clemson. Sparky Woods ended up a big time loser at VMI. Joe Morrison died young. Carlen ended his career after coaching here and Dietzel did the same. There has never been a head coach at South Carolina who went on to be a head coach anywhere else. I look for Beamer to be a position coach at his next stop if he decides to keep coaching.

Established coaches and coordinators who want to have successful careers don't look to South Carolina as a place make or help it happen. G5 or FCS coaches and coordinators who are looking for a step up to P4 are the inventory we really have to pick from. The "we should go get _________" talk about big name coaches or coordinators is foolish. They don't want to come to South Carolina.

Money isn't the answer. In demand coaches know they can get money wherever they go and the really good ones are already making very good money. Those G5 and FCS coordinators who are making $200,000 a year can be lured with money, same with the head coaches making $500,000 a year. I still think Chadwell was the biggest miss ever.

In addition, it seems like, if they are hired here, they sit back and take it easy. Hell, Holtz spent most of his time in Florida. (granted, his wife was ill) Spurrier liked it here, but he just stayed too long. That's one of the reasons I was excited about Beamer. I saw him as an up and coming coach that had been overlooked by others, and he really wanted this job.

Honestly, we are just going to have to get lucky to have another run like 2009-2013.

 

[Piscis]

It is hard to argue some of your individual facts, but I think the overall idea is off.

I think it is more of the fact that SC just continue to make really bad hiring decisions and passes over great decisions.

Eli Drinkiwitz would have happily taken a job at SC. When he was coaching at Appalachian State. Chadwell would have happily come to SC. Cignetti would have happily taken the head coaching job at SC when he was at JMU.

We could have hired any of these guys plus I am sure a lot more just like them that have gone on to be successful.

But we don't. We always miss on the guys that end up being great coaches.

You are sort of helping my overall point. None of the three coaches you note were big name, well known coaches who were in any sort of high demand. They were G5 head coaches who had won everywhere they had been and wanted to jump to P4 and were sort of "who?" hires at the time.

I think that is the kind of coach SC is going to have to find. The big names aren't interested in coming to SC.

 

[SouthernBelly]

You are sort of helping my overall point. None of the three coaches you note were big name, well known coaches who were in any sort of high demand. They were G5 head coaches who had won everywhere they had been and wanted to jump to P4 and were sort of "who?" hires at the time.

I think that is the kind of coach SC is going to have to find. The big names aren't interested in coming to SC.

OK, with you now. Began to reply to your op but after reading this one I see what you mean by in demand coaches. I tend to think the in demand coaches are the G5 / FCS guys that generate attention and get hired by P4 programs. We're defining "in demand" differently. I see them as in demand because people generally want to move up and being at a lower level a coach has several more options to move up. It's rare that a coach will move from a P4 to another P4. Gotta be a Franklin from Vandy to Penn St type deal, but even that is a rare case. Or even more rare is a Brian Kelly going from ND to LSU.

Matt Campbell's name used to ge thrown around in Gamecock circles alot. Which I thought was asinine. He's been doing well at Iowa St; if you're him why would you want to go somewhere else and start a builidng process all over again? I think that is the type of guy you would define as a big name in demand type coach - please correct if I'm getting this wrong.

G5, FCS is the best option for SC. We know that's hardly a gaurantee but it's the most realistic option to find a good coach who could stick around for a while.

 

[gamecock stock]

Those of you who say getting a coach from a lower tier FBS school are spot on. Someone like James Franklin won't give us the time of day.

Paul Dietzel: wanted to get back into coaching
Jim Carlen: he rubbed people at Texas Tech the wrong way. I liked his personality. He was like Spurrier . He spoke his mind. But, unlike Spurrier, he was abrasive.
Joe Morrison: came from lower tier FBS New Mexico. Might have been the best game day coach we have ever had.
Lou Holtz and Steve Spurrier: lured out of retirement.

Richard Bell: never had been a Head Coach; fired after one season.
Sparky Woods: App. State was not a FBS school when we hired him. Fired after 5 seasons.
Brad Scott: was OC: no Head Coaching experience in college. Fired after 5 seasons.
Will Muschamp: an unmitigated failure as Florida Head Coach. Fired after 5 seasons.
Shane Beamer: never been a Head Coach.

Why we have not gone after a proven, successful lower tier FBS coach like we did Morrison, is a head scratcher.

As someone above said, I think we really screwed up not taking Chadwell. I don't care how he is doing this season. He has won at too many places.

 

[Piscis]

OK, with you now. Began to reply to your op but after reading this one I see what you mean by in demand coaches. I tend to think the in demand coaches are the G5 / FCS guys that generate attention and get hired by P4 programs. We're defining "in demand" differently. I see them as in demand because people generally want to move up and being at a lower level a coach has several more options to move up. It's rare that a coach will move from a P4 to another P4. Gotta be a Franklin from Vandy to Penn St type deal, but even that is a rare case. Or even more rare is a Brian Kelly going from ND to LSU.

Matt Campbell's name used to ge thrown around in Gamecock circles alot. Which I thought was asinine. He's been doing well at Iowa St; if you're him why would you want to go somewhere else and start a builidng process all over again? I think that is the type of guy you would define as a big name in demand type coach - please correct if I'm getting this wrong.

G5, FCS is the best option for SC. We know that's hardly a gaurantee but it's the most realistic option to find a good coach who could stick around for a while.

Exactly. I am addressing the people who say things like "we should hire Norvell as OC" or "we should get Napier to come in as OC" or "let's hire Franklin" when a head coach is fired. Those things would be great but the reality is, they aren't going to happen because no legit current P4 coach or coordinator is going to want to come to South Carolina.

Donati should be looking at G5 coaches in the Southeast.

 

[Piscis]

Those of you who say getting a coach from a lower tier FBS school are spot on. Someone like James Franklin won't give us the time of day.

Paul Dietzel: wanted to get back into coaching
Jim Carlen: he rubbed people at Texas Tech the wrong way. I liked his personality. He was like Spurrier . He spoke his mind. But, unlike Spurrier, he was abrasive.
Joe Morrison: came from lower tier FBS New Mexico. Might have been the best game day coach we have ever had.
Lou Holtz and Steve Spurrier: lured out of retirement.

Richard Bell: never had been a Head Coach; fired after one season.
Sparky Woods: App. State was not a FBS school when we hired him. Fired after 5 seasons.
Brad Scott: was OC: no Head Coaching experience in college. Fired after 5 seasons.
Will Muschamp: an unmitigated failure as Florida Head Coach. Fired after 5 seasons.
Shane Beamer: never been a Head Coach.

Why we have not gone after a proven, successful lower tier FBS coach like we did Morrison, is a head scratcher.

As someone above said, I think we really screwed up not taking Chadwell. I don't care how he is doing this season. He has won at too many places.

The tragic thing is; we sort of turned our noses up at Chadwell, acted like we were too good for him and he didn't have the ability to coach here. One of South Carolina's biggest flaws is a highly inflated sense of self worth that has no basis in reality. We have far too many people who think South Carolina is some storied program with a rich history of winning in football. South Carolina has some nice wins over the years but the overall history is one of a program that is barely above .500 after 133 years (28 more wins than losses over 1310 games) and is a perennial lower tier SEC program.

The two most successful coaches, Holtz and Spurrier, took the job to massage their egos and prove they were not over the hill as coaches. With the money coaches make now and the new NIL and portal landscape in college football, I don't think you are going to see many coaches who retire come back. Belichick is learning the hard way that college coaching is a brutal job now.

 

[Gamecock Jacque]

The tragic thing is; we sort of turned our noses up at Chadwell, acted like we were too good for him and he didn't have the ability to coach here. One of South Carolina's biggest flaws is a highly inflated sense of self worth that has no basis in reality. We have far too many people who think South Carolina is some storied program with a rich history of winning in football. South Carolina has some nice wins over the years but the overall history is one of a program that is barely above .500 after 133 years (28 more wins than losses over 1310 games) and is a perennial lower tier SEC program.

The two most successful coaches, Holtz and Spurrier, took the job to massage their egos and prove they were not over the hill as coaches. With the money coaches make now and the new NIL and portal landscape in college football, I don't think you are going to see many coaches who retire come back. Belichick is learning the hard way that college coaching is a brutal job now.

I remember after a bowl win an Ohio St. fan telling me that when we lose our good coach we'd be back to being Carolina.

 

[Anon1705945076]

I don’t think Carolina gets a coach who has options.Two weeks ago I would have said no way but I think Dan Mullen might be a guy who could have success at Carolina.I mean he built a winner at Miss St which is even harder than at Carolina and his track record of developing QB’s is stellar.
He’s a proven guy Carolina could get.

 

[gamecock stock]

I will say this. I want Carolina to be respected in football. I don't want it for me, although that would make me very happy. I want it for the generations behind us. I don't want them to put up with the mediocre football we have been putting up with for decades.

I remember when Lou Holtz got here. A fan told Lou, "Coach, I have had season tickets going to Carolina football games since the 1950s. What do you think of that?"
Lou: "I think you have been paying good money to see a lot of lousy football".

 

[KingWard]

Those of you who say getting a coach from a lower tier FBS school are spot on. Someone like James Franklin won't give us the time of day.

Paul Dietzel: wanted to get back into coaching
Jim Carlen: he rubbed people at Texas Tech the wrong way. I liked his personality. He was like Spurrier . He spoke his mind. But, unlike Spurrier, he was abrasive.
Joe Morrison: came from lower tier FBS New Mexico. Might have been the best game day coach we have ever had.
Lou Holtz and Steve Spurrier: lured out of retirement.

Richard Bell: never had been a Head Coach; fired after one season.
Sparky Woods: App. State was not a FBS school when we hired him. Fired after 5 seasons.
Brad Scott: was OC: no Head Coaching experience in college. Fired after 5 seasons.
Will Muschamp: an unmitigated failure as Florida Head Coach. Fired after 5 seasons.
Shane Beamer: never been a Head Coach.

Why we have not gone after a proven, successful lower tier FBS coach like we did Morrison, is a head scratcher.

As someone above said, I think we really screwed up not taking Chadwell. I don't care how he is doing this season. He has won at too many places.

Paul Dietzel actually came here seamlessly from Army, but he hadn't won that much there and his high profile rubbed the brass the wrong way. He was "encouraged to leave" Army - I got that from one of his former Carolina players - but he did come directly here from there.

Scott was only the titular OC at FSU. He was actually running the Offensive Line job, probably a cumshaw to keep him there and pay him a little extra. Mark Richt ran the offense from the QB coach position.

 

[SuperCock99]

I won’t pretend to be an expert on picking the right head Coach.

When Tanner and our incompetent BOT was still giving Muschamp raises and bonuses and contract extensions for losing seasons, I was saying GET Kiffin!

I was perplexed when Carolina hired Muschamp in the first place. Rumors started before it was official and even Florida fans were coming to Carolina social media circles kind of warning people that it would be a bad idea. When I saw the first headlines that he was the new HC I thought it was a joke. A/D Tanner (who is gone now thank god) and our BOT don’t have the desire and/or ability build a winning football program. As long as they are selling tickets, it’s all that matters.

IMO watching a Carolina game at this point is a waste of time and money if you expect competitive football. Hopefully 2026 will be better.

 

[unctar2001]

I’d have to disagree overall with the OP on how majority of coaches worth their salt wouldn’t come to South Carolina. Trust me, as a UNC alum and a casual fan bc of family with South Carolina football, I’ve seen a lot of bad hires.

First, I think that Beamer is a good hire. I think he’s made a few bad decisions in his assistant hires which are biting him. I fully believe that if you fix the offense with a new coordinator, you’re a lot better off than it feels right now.

South Carolina is in the SEC and it has unbelievable fan support. That’s worth more than people realize. This offseason is going to be crazy in the coaching carousel, and if I’m Beamer, I’m calling on whoever I can to shore up this offense.