Winds of Winter news
- Thread starter JonnyVito
- Start date
Summary: he's hoping to get the book done soon, there will be differences between the books and the series, and while there's still no release date, he hints that it may be in the hands of the publishers already.
My guess would be Stannis since the show killed him.
If not him then Sansa doing something of key importance in the Vale.
If not him then Sansa doing something of key importance in the Vale.
You may be on to something. He may have been talking about Jaime. When last we saw him, he was leaving his men and following Briene somewhere. She told Jaime that she was taking him to one of the Stark girls (I don't remember which), but we know that she was sent by LS. Since HBO took him to Dorne, instead of the Riverlands, anything that happens to him early in WOW would be a significant change from what HBO is going to do with his character. I think GRRM has laid the groundwork for Jaime to end up being a key player, while HBO has somewhat minimized his character.
@JonnyVito I think Stannis is clearly a main character. Maybe more so for HBO than GRRM, but I think GRRM would consider him one of the main characters of the story.
My guess would be Stannis.
If he truly is dead, I'm having a hard time seeing the point of show Stannis. I'm probably forgetting something but you could completely cut him out and I'm not sure what changes in the big scheme of things.
If he truly is dead, I'm having a hard time seeing the point of show Stannis. I'm probably forgetting something but you could completely cut him out and I'm not sure what changes in the big scheme of things.
Based on the context of GRRM's quote, I think it is unlikely that it is Snow. The way I interpret his comment, HBO has already traveled down a road, with a particular character, that would preclude HBO's version from being part of the the events that occur in TWOW. Arya, Cersei, Dani, Jon, and Bran, are all basically in the same situation at the end of Season 5 and Book 5. That means that whatever happens to them in TWOW, could still potentially happen to them in Season 6/7. Tyrion and Theon are not in exactly the same situation, in book and show, but they is pretty close.
Jaime, Brienne and Sansa are in completely different locations.
Stannis is dead in the show and alive in the books, so it makes the most sense that it would be him. I think there is a good chance that he dies before the end of the books, but that does not mean that he won't do something of significance before his death. I am expecting him to rescue fake Arya and Theon, then take Winterfell from the Boltons/Freys in TWOW. Maybe that is what GRRM was talking about.
Is Stannis actually dead in the show? We never truly saw him die. One could even argue that we saw Jon Snow more dead than Stannis.
Who knows. I agree with everyone that story-wise and theme wise it really makes no sense to bring Stannis back. Everyone seems to think he really is dead.
However ... I just can't get over the fact they didn't show it. That seems incredibly convenient and on purpose. If he isn't dead I have no idea what they do with him though.
I guess that is fair. The way I see it, HBO had Melisandre leave Stannis and show up at Castle Black for a reason. It is difficult to imagine her not resurrecting Jon Snow.
On the other hand, Stannis might be still alive, but it is difficult to imagine why that would be. His army is devastated. His chances of ever sitting the Iron Throne are gone. They were completely dependent upon him freeing Winterfell and gaining support of all of the Northern Lords. In addition, it does not seem to be in Brienne's nature to have last minute mercy on the man who was responsible for the death of Renly.
I will be very surprised if Stannis is still alive. I will be very surprised if Jon is not resurrected by Mel.
I just thought of another major character that GRRM might have been referring to.....Davos.
In the books, Davos is (most likely) on his way to Skaagos, an island populated by cannibals, in an attempt to find Rickon and bring him back to the North. I don't see HBO making this happen, since they haven't even introduced Wyman Manderly (the man who sent Davos on the mission), and Stannis is now dead/a nobody. The only reason Davos went (in the books) was in an attempt to garner more support for Stannis.
In the books, Davos is (most likely) on his way to Skaagos, an island populated by cannibals, in an attempt to find Rickon and bring him back to the North. I don't see HBO making this happen, since they haven't even introduced Wyman Manderly (the man who sent Davos on the mission), and Stannis is now dead/a nobody. The only reason Davos went (in the books) was in an attempt to garner more support for Stannis.
If (and a big if here) I am remembering didn't Stannis say to Brienne "go ahead and do your duty". If this is true then I could see her remembering her promise to Mrs Stark about her daughters and she has a change of heart thinking Stannis can help her. Now I doubt this is the character Martin is talking about as it would be pretty easy for the show to get him to where the book would be.
Forgot about Barriston. Another possibility. Although it appears that HBO has basically just moved Tyrion into that role. Maybe GRRM's Tyrion will end up going in a completely different direction and not end up in Mereen with Dani.
I don't see why Stannis would be alive either just saying we didn't actually see him dead.
All this thread is doing is making me realize I need to re-read all the books before WoW comes out.
I know the remarks in this thread have made me realize just how far HBO has strayed from the books. I forgot Selmy even had a POV in the books. lol
Just finished the first Hedge Knight book and loved it. Also if you haven't bought this map type book you need to I love it and am going to have them framed.
Thanks for the head's up, Vito. I'll give them a look.I know the remarks in this thread have made me realize just how far HBO has strayed from the books. I forgot Selmy even had a POV in the books. lol
Just finished the first Hedge Knight book and loved it. Also if you haven't bought this map type book you need to I love it and am going to have them framed.
I thought Selmy's POV was really good, and very informative.
Fresh perspectives on Rhaegar Targaryen, Ashara Dayne, the Stark brothers...
Tyrion can play a role as Dany's advisor, sure. He can't play Selmy's role as a legendary, even at his age, knight of the Kingsguard. I think it was incredibly short sited of the show to do away with him so early. Of all the characters orbiting around Dany in this story he is by far the most interesting to me (or was before Tyrion got there).
Fresh perspectives on Rhaegar Targaryen, Ashara Dayne, the Stark brothers...
Tyrion can play a role as Dany's advisor, sure. He can't play Selmy's role as a legendary, even at his age, knight of the Kingsguard. I think it was incredibly short sited of the show to do away with him so early. Of all the characters orbiting around Dany in this story he is by far the most interesting to me (or was before Tyrion got there).
Well there goes my theory on the Nights King and Cersi getting married and ruling Westeros. I got this question and a quote from GRRM out of an article I read today. Thought I would share it here to give @The Duke some hope.
The number one question people ask me about the series is whether I think everyone will lose—whether it will end in some horrible apocalypse. I know you can’t speak to that specifically, but as a revisionist of epic fantasy—
(GRRM response):
I haven’t written the ending yet, so I don’t know, but no. That’s certainly not my intent. I’ve said before that the tone of the ending that I’m going for is bittersweet. I mean, it’s no secret that Tolkien has been a huge influence on me, and I love the way he ended Lord of the Rings. It ends with victory, but it’s a bittersweet victory. Frodo is never whole again, and he goes away to the Undying Lands, and the other people live their lives. And the scouring of the Shire—brilliant piece of work, which I didn’t understand when I was 13 years old: “Why is this here? The story’s over?” But every time I read it I understand the brilliance of that segment more and more. All I can say is that’s the kind of tone I will be aiming for. Whether I achieve it or not, that will be up to people like you and my readers to judge.
The number one question people ask me about the series is whether I think everyone will lose—whether it will end in some horrible apocalypse. I know you can’t speak to that specifically, but as a revisionist of epic fantasy—
(GRRM response):
I haven’t written the ending yet, so I don’t know, but no. That’s certainly not my intent. I’ve said before that the tone of the ending that I’m going for is bittersweet. I mean, it’s no secret that Tolkien has been a huge influence on me, and I love the way he ended Lord of the Rings. It ends with victory, but it’s a bittersweet victory. Frodo is never whole again, and he goes away to the Undying Lands, and the other people live their lives. And the scouring of the Shire—brilliant piece of work, which I didn’t understand when I was 13 years old: “Why is this here? The story’s over?” But every time I read it I understand the brilliance of that segment more and more. All I can say is that’s the kind of tone I will be aiming for. Whether I achieve it or not, that will be up to people like you and my readers to judge.
I'm expecting a Claudius-type scenario where our worst enemies are perhaps vanquished as well as a big chunk of the good guys. I don't expect Jon to survive, although perhaps he ultimately leads Westeros to victory over the ice king. I'm trying to think of who might be a reluctant/average ruler in the end but I have a hard time seeing any 'hero' on the throne when all is said and done.
I could see Jon being the Frodo of the series. Him having to make choices that changes who he is. He is about the only one I could see them doing that with. Maybe Dani but the others I don't see how they could do it and all the other good people have been killed off.
This is technically news about the next season of GoT, not WoW, but supposedly it was just confirmed that the Castillo de Zafra, a shooting location in Spain, will serve as the Tower of Joy. Hopefully this means we will finally get confirmation about Jon's parentage. The castle certainly looks the part:
@cornichon
Very interesting. I am very curious as to how HBO chooses to share the Tower of Joy events with the viewer. In the books, we get what information we have from what is basically a flashback within Ned's mind. I can see 3 possible ways we get to see the Tower of Joy events from HBO.
1). HBO casts Howland Reed and he tells someone the story while the viewer gets to see what he is narrating.
2). HBO brings Bran's mystical powers into the story line and he becomes the vehicle for showing us events that happened in the past. (this would not necessarily be in line with the books, as it seems that Bran can only see past events that occurred next to a Weirwood tree).
3). HBO could do what is done in many movies/shows....They could just give us a graphic that says "16 years ago" and then show the events.
As an aside, I wonder if Sean Bean (Ned Stark) will be back to film the scene. My guess is we get a new actor who plays the young Ned Stark, which would allow them to film other past scenes over the last 3 seasons of the show.
Very interesting. I am very curious as to how HBO chooses to share the Tower of Joy events with the viewer. In the books, we get what information we have from what is basically a flashback within Ned's mind. I can see 3 possible ways we get to see the Tower of Joy events from HBO.
1). HBO casts Howland Reed and he tells someone the story while the viewer gets to see what he is narrating.
2). HBO brings Bran's mystical powers into the story line and he becomes the vehicle for showing us events that happened in the past. (this would not necessarily be in line with the books, as it seems that Bran can only see past events that occurred next to a Weirwood tree).
3). HBO could do what is done in many movies/shows....They could just give us a graphic that says "16 years ago" and then show the events.
As an aside, I wonder if Sean Bean (Ned Stark) will be back to film the scene. My guess is we get a new actor who plays the young Ned Stark, which would allow them to film other past scenes over the last 3 seasons of the show.
I saw something earlier this week or last week that a young Ned Stark had been cast. People surmised at the time that it would be for a Tower of Joy scene, and now with confirmation this location is being used as the Tower, it seems a pretty safe bet.
I agree. I pictured it as just a tower in the middle of a wide expanse of open land. Not as a castle. But, if you think about it. It wouldn't make much sense for Rhaegar to send Lyanna, and his baby (born or unborn) to anyplace other than some type of fortress.
speaking of locations for the show filming. Who is going to the Wall once filming is done? I am going and gonna pee of that beast. I saw Ireland wants to covert the set to a tourist attraction. I would also go see this castle(?) that they are filming the Tower of Joy scenes at also place looks really cool.
Remember there was a Cercei flashback this last season from her childhood. And as I recall there was no context, it was simply a scene that jumped to Cercei sitting there thinking once it was done.
Good point. Of course, they can't really do that, in this case, since Ned is dead. If Sean Bean doesn't return, and they cast "young Ned", it would not be as easy for the viewer to understand what they are watching and appreciate the significance. I guess they can figure out creative ways to explain it to the viewer. The young actor can arrive at the tower, and the leader of the Kingsguard can call him Ned Stark. Then, a dying Lyanna can give the baby to Ned and tell him to name him Jon and keep his parentage a secret. That seems like it would work.
I bet John Snow sees it or is shown it while he is "dead."
Not at all what the book did with it, but it would be dramatic for that to end with John "waking up."
Not at all what the book did with it, but it would be dramatic for that to end with John "waking up."