Fantastic and infuriating read on Gamecocks basketball, the ACC and Mike Grosso

Rodemi

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Blues man

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The folks who would like to see us in the ACC even today... well, I just write that off as ignorance.
 
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18IsTheMan

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GREAT READ ! I knew part of this story, but not all of it Thanks for posting

Yeah, most Gamecocks fans are probably familiar with the notion that ACC screwed us somehow. Very few (including me) are probably aware of the whole story.
 
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GandBinNC

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Thanks for sharing - fantastic read! And so cool Cloninger was about to interview Grosso. What a sad story all around. What could have been...
 

athenscock3

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Yeah, most Gamecocks fans are probably familiar with the notion that ACC screwed us somehow. Very few (including me) are probably aware of the whole story.
Uh. You don't think making up never before rules as they went along targeting one school was not intended to screw a coach and his prize recruit. If not, share with us the whole story. By the way, Coach Dietzel was a force behind leaving the ACC because he was losing prize recruits many to the SEC where they could play. Coach McGuire supported that move at the time but later came to regret it.
 

18IsTheMan

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Uh. You don't think making up never before rules as they went along targeting one school was not intended to screw a coach and his prize recruit. If not, share with us the whole story. By the way, Coach Dietzel was a force behind leaving the ACC because he was losing prize recruits many to the SEC where they could play. Coach McGuire supported that move at the time but later came to regret it.

What in the world are you talking about? The article I posted tells the whole story of how the ACC screwed us.
 
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KingWard

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It's fascinating that grown men would conspire behind closed doors to destroy one kid's basketball career.
Really, what they were trying to destroy was McGuire's emergent program. Once people understood that, it made the rivalries with UNC and Duke hotter than ever. There was that one year when Duke was even too scared to play in Columbia. The hatred was palpable, and I don't mind saying I miss it.
 
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18IsTheMan

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Really, what they were trying to destroy was McGuire's emergent program. Once people understood that, it made the rivalries with UNC and Duke hotter than ever. There was that one year when Duke was even too scared to play in Columbia. The hatred was palpable, and I don't mind saying I miss it.

Well, yeah, I guess to the powers-that-were, Grosso was just necessary collateral damage. All anyone can do is speculate, but you have to wonder how good he must have been to scare the ACC powers into blocking him from playing.
 

KingWard

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Well, yeah, I guess to the powers-that-were, Grosso was just necessary collateral damage. All anyone can do is speculate, but you have to wonder how good he must have been to scare the ACC powers into blocking him from playing.
Well, he didn't do all that well at Louisville nor in the pros. It's what he represented: the possibility of McGuire scoring big success in Columbia and upending Tobacco Road.
 

atl-cock

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Really, what they were trying to destroy was McGuire's emergent program. Once people understood that, it made the rivalries with UNC and Duke hotter than ever. There was that one year when Duke was even too scared to play in Columbia. The hatred was palpable, and I don't mind saying I miss it.
Actually, in the aftermath of the Grosso affair, the ACC gave all member schools the option of not playing USC in the upcoming season without penalty. Dook was the only school which exercised the option.
 

KingWard

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Actually, in the aftermath of the Grosso affair, the ACC gave all member schools the option of not playing USC in the upcoming season without penalty. Dook was the only school which exercised the option.
Because Eddie Cameron knew what he had done and he knew we knew what he had done.
 
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Rogue Cock

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Uh. You don't think making up never before rules as they went along targeting one school was not intended to screw a coach and his prize recruit. If not, share with us the whole story. By the way, Coach Dietzel was a force behind leaving the ACC because he was losing prize recruits many to the SEC where they could play. Coach McGuire supported that move at the time but later came to regret it.
True....but that was changing due to the Clemson lawsuit against the ACC....and we knew it was going to change. Within the year after we left the ACC, the ACC was forced to reduce their higher academic (SAT) requirements.
 
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CockofEarle

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athenscock3

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What in the world are you talking about? The article I posted tells the whole story of how the ACC screwed us.
My bad. Misread your intent. I thought you were insinuating there was some sinister reason not contained in the story.
 

18IsTheMan

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It’s too bad we never got to see Grosso here and see him 100% healthy. Just a bad turn of events for the kid. Screwed over by the ACC cuz they were afraid of Frank. And then knee injuries took his abilities. He must’ve been one heck of a player though for the ACC guys to zero went on him like they did.
 
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Hobcawcreekcock

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Freddie Solomon in football was almost as bad. Committed to USC, acc had higher standards than the NCAA. The next year or so, AFTER SOLOMON headed to the University of Tampa, the acc lowered SAT score requirements. Bunch of ******** then and NOW. Many believe that Solomon was the best offensive HS football player EVER in SC.
 

cockthehammer

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I was at the Capitol Newsstand on Main St. the day Dan Klores’ “Roundball Culture” was released in 1980. I got one of the 1st books out of the first box opened. Klores was there to sign. I still have it. Needs re-bound. Spine is about torn away from the pages. Still refer to it from time-to-time, but try not to handle it too much.
 

cockthehammer

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From Dan Klores’ “Roundball Culture”, Freddie Soloman & C.A. Wilson signing football grants-in-aid with South Carolina (“click/tap” to read caption).
 

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cockthehammer

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According to Klores, in the pre-season of 1966 (before Grosso was declared ineligible)) South Carolina was scrimmaging Davidson, coached by Lefty Driesell. Grosso blocked a shot, took off down court &, taking the pass from our guard who retrieved the block, jammed it through the rim almost tearing it away from the backboard (just before the dunk was banned in college hoops). Driesell, reportedly having a video recording machine close by, called a time out to rewatch the play. Kept muttering “wow” & shaking his head each time he watched it.
 
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cockthehammer

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Well, he didn't do all that well at Louisville nor in the pros. It's what he represented: the possibility of McGuire scoring big success in Columbia and upending Tobacco Road.
Yep…the terrible knee injury when he was undercut vs. Guilford robbed him of much of his athleticism. Considering he was still able to avg. a “ Double-Double” at Louisville, he could have potentially helped the ‘67-‘68 “4 horsemen + 1” (Gregor, Harlicka…both 1st round NBA pics…w/Standard & Thompson “plus” Bobby Cremins) and/or the 1968-‘69 “Super Sophs +1” (Roche, Owens, Ribock, Powell plus Bobby Cremins) to more seriously challenge for our first ACC tourney championship. I believe you are correct, though. The symbolic damage of the ban was worse than the actual. A completely healthy Grosso, though, & who knows what could’ve been.
 
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atl-cock

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Walker, in his book, gives a pretty thorough background into what led to the formation of the ACC.

Two factions become odd bedfellows:
  • The Big Four schools, who felt that the unwieldy size of the SoCon (almost two dozen members by 1952) made it difficult to control athletics and felt a smaller league would enable them to achieve a good balance between academics and athletics.
  • USC, Clemron, and Maryland, who were, in essence, p*$$3d at the SoCon for enacting a bowl ban for 1951 (pretty sure it was 51). Taters & Terps said "$cr3ew this," and accepted bowl bids anyway. SoCon retaliated by forbidding Clemron & Maryland from playing any other SoCon school on the gridiron with the exception of each other. That's when/why the SC General Assembly enacted legislation requiring USC & Clemron to play each other in the fall of 1952.
And thus, USC joined the ACC with the understanding of league aspirations for reasonable academic standards. And no objection in 1964 when the league upped the SAT requirement to 800 in order to be eligible for an athletic scholarship for gridiron and hoops play.

Virginia is not a charter member of the ACC. But shortly after league formation, the 7 charter members members sought out an eighth member so as to have an even number of schools for the postseason basketball tournament. Charlottesville did not jump at the opportunity. It was actually a close (BOT?) vote to accept the invitation. They joined in December, 1953, 5 months after the league was formed.
 
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Tngamecock

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I hated the ACC then and now. The ref favoritism for the NC schools is legendary. Anyone wishing we were in the ACC is a MORON. The taters deserve that weak *** conference.
 

The coup nazi

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I’ve not read that article in years. I just can’t. Every time I do I feel like….
 

81 Alumnus

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Well, he didn't do all that well at Louisville nor in the pros. It's what he represented: the possibility of McGuire scoring big success in Columbia and upending Tobacco Road.
Mike tore up his knee as a Biddie and had multiple surgeries. He transferred to Louisville where he played with Wes Unseld and Butch Beard. He was all-MVC his junior and senior years and average a double-double both seasons. Louisville has one of the great basketball traditions in college hoops. There are a grand total of 11 basketball players in their athletic Hall of Fame. Mike is one of them. And he did it all with one knee and a broken heart.

Not sure how that is "not all that well," but it ain't my job to educate the world
 

Rock Hill Cock

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From Dan Klores’ “Roundball Culture”, Freddie Soloman & C.A. Wilson signing football grants-in-aid with South Carolina (“click/tap” to read caption).
C.A. worked with my wife in Chester. Been a while since I've talked with Jerry Witherspoon in Lancaster but he and CA are best friends. Last I heard from him is that CA is not doing well,
 

Rock Hill Cock

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Well, he didn't do all that well at Louisville nor in the pros. It's what he represented: the possibility of McGuire scoring big success in Columbia and upending Tobacco Road.

Mike tore up his knee as a Biddie and had multiple surgeries. He transferred to Louisville where he played with Wes Unseld and Butch Beard. He was all-MVC his junior and senior years and average a double-double both seasons. Louisville has one of the great basketball traditions in college hoops. There are a grand total of 11 basketball players in their athletic Hall of Fame. Mike is one of them. And he did it all with one knee and a broken heart.

Not sure how that is "not all that well," but it ain't my job to educate the world

From the article:
Still recovering from the injury, Grosso played in five games for Louisville in the 1967-68 season. He recovered to average 17.2 points and 15 rebounds over his final two seasons.

Wish we had some players play "not all that well"
 

KingWard

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From the article:
Still recovering from the injury, Grosso played in five games for Louisville in the 1967-68 season. He recovered to average 17.2 points and 15 rebounds over his final two seasons.

Wish we had some players play "not all that well"
Better things were projected for him, and in those days, which predated even the Big East, Louisville was playing at a level significantly below the ACC.
Mike tore up his knee as a Biddie and had multiple surgeries. He transferred to Louisville where he played with Wes Unseld and Butch Beard. He was all-MVC his junior and senior years and average a double-double both seasons. Louisville has one of the great basketball traditions in college hoops. There are a grand total of 11 basketball players in their athletic Hall of Fame. Mike is one of them. And he did it all with one knee and a broken heart.

Not sure how that is "not all that well," but it ain't my job to educate the world
I refer the gentleman to the reply I gave some moments ago.
 

KingWard

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From the Duke perspective:

Received as information to be laid beside other information. It conveniently omits South Carolina's departure from the ACC as having anything to do with McGuire not quite getting us "to the top". That's a questionable omission, to say the least..
 
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atl-cock

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I hated the ACC then and now. The ref favoritism for the NC schools is legendary. Anyone wishing we were in the ACC is a MORON. The taters deserve that weak *** conference.
I wish we were in the 8-member league we left.

Too many people misunderstand that USC was in the the crossfire between McGuire and the ACC.
 
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KingWard

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I wish we were in the 8-member league we left.

Too many people misunderstand that USC was in the the crossfire between McGuire and the ACC.
And it was wonderfully turbulent for several years. Whatever we were, we weren't irrelevant. That didn't happen until we left. Neither did the basketball program collapse prior to then.
 

Tngamecock

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Growing up we basically got ACC games on the Jefferson Pilot network. There was no espn. As a kid I watched games all the time I thought were fixed by the way refs cheated for Duke and NC against everyone. Much props to McGuire for not taking their ****. ACC was rigged. Article confirms it.

Heck…the cheating for NC schools was still going on into the 80s. Anyone remember the NC State game in Raleigh when Todd was QB and Marcum was AD? I saw the ref throw a flag in the end zone, then pick it up and run off the field. I had a long conversation with the AD the Sunday after that game. He was trying to find video to send to the league. A local station in Raleigh showed highlights of the game that night and showed the last play…..I saw the ref picking up the flag in the video and gave Marcum the station info.
 

athenscock3

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From Dan Klores’ “Roundball Culture”, Freddie Soloman & C.A. Wilson signing football grants-in-aid with South Carolina (“click/tap” to read caption).
Ah. Freddie Solomon. I sat in the old stadium and watched the magic of Freddie Solomon in the Shrine Bowl. I was estatic when Paul Dietzel announced he had signed with us. Back then prospects could sign in December I believe, but it wasn't valid til the national signing date in February. Because of the ACC 800 rule he was not eligible, although he qualified by NCAA standards. Solomon was just one of many but I think he and Issac Jackson a rb from Macon were the ones that broke the camel's back. When I moved to Georgia in 1968, the UGA roster was loaded with S. C. kids many of them due to the 800 ACC rule. Frank Howard lamented the loss of Kent Lawrence a stand out rb from Daniel H. S. who starred at Georgia. I don't regret for one minute the break with the ACC. USC was never going to get a break from the power of Tobacco Road.
 
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GCJerryUSC

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This still upsets me. USC was a founding member of the ACC and deserved to be treated with respect.
One thing is Bad Karma is catching up with those ACC _________. Their conference may collapse and I hope so. The only reason it hasn't already collapsed is because of their GOR. Why the ACC teams agreed to that is hard to understand. They had to promise to pay seventy seven septillion $ if they wanted to leave.
Even worse is the fact that USC practically begged to be re-admitted in the late 70s but the ACC ever vindictive said ok but you gotta pay the ACC for the bowls you attended. In other words, NO.
Will be a happy moment when they go the way of the Big East. No other strong conference really wants Duke but might take them to get UNC.

BTW, look what Mack is doing at UNC and to think our fantastic, brilliant, unequaled AD could have hired him instead of he who shall not be named.
 

atl-cock

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Growing up we basically got ACC games on the Jefferson Pilot network. There was no espn. As a kid I watched games all the time I thought were fixed by the way refs cheated for Duke and NC against everyone. Much props to McGuire for not taking their ****. ACC was rigged. Article confirms it.

Heck…the cheating for NC schools was still going on into the 80s. Anyone remember the NC State game in Raleigh when Todd was QB and Marcum was AD? I saw the ref throw a flag in the end zone, then pick it up and run off the field. I had a long conversation with the AD the Sunday after that game. He was trying to find video to send to the league. A local station in Raleigh showed highlights of the game that night and showed the last play…..I saw the ref picking up the flag in the video and gave Marcum the station info.
ACC was cheating from the get-go - think 1953.
 
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