Joe Pa said in 2004 when it seemed imminent of his demise....

[Mr. Potter]

"We are one, two players away from competing for a championship."

Of course he was prophetic we got Derrick Williams and Justin King. 2005 rocked.

To make a comparison to this PSU's team future. Allar and the RB from FLA might play like history suggest and deliver this program and University the pride of Championship.
Is it possible that we can attempt on this new forum to support the Program and those within it, by offering constructive criticism, than insults (If possble. I know some on this board are road ragers and this is the outlet --Thank G-d). No doubt scream when there's a high injustice. But it would be nice to see posters lifting people up rather than putting them down.

But if we offer positive than negative direction, everyone will be better for it.

Shalom.


PS: pulled out the train set for winter to set up.

 

[Player2BNamedL8r]

Paterno >>>>>>>>> Franklin

 

[Pennst8]

Paterno >>>>>>>>> Franklin

Not from 2000 on. 2 good teams. 4 horrible teams. The other 5 filled with Morelli, Zach Mills, Seneca, and the like.

 

[ripengleshat]

"We are one, two players away from competing for a championship."

Of course he was prophetic we got Derrick Williams and Justin King. 2005 rocked.

To make a comparison to this PSU's team future. Allar and the RB from FLA might play like history suggest and deliver this program and University the pride of Championship.
Is it possible that we can attempt on this new forum to support the Program and those within it, by offering constructive criticism, than insults (If possble. I know some on this board are road ragers and this is the outlet --Thank G-d). No doubt scream when there's a high injustice. But it would be nice to see posters lifting people up rather than putting them down.

But if we offer positive than negative direction, everyone will be better for it.

Shalom.


PS: pulled out the train set for winter to set up.

Shalom

 

[Player2BNamedL8r]

Not from 2000 on. 2 good teams. 4 horrible teams. The other 5 filled with Morelli, Zach Mills, Wally, Thompson and the like.

Nope. Even “dark years” Joe was a better coach than Franklin. Sure, he had lost a step, but imagine if Joe had the talent this team has back then? There wouldn’t have been any dark years.

 

[Pennst8]

Well, that's kind of the job as a college coach - getting talent. Joe simply was not anything special from 2000 on. Obviously, way too old and should have called it a career instead of dragging it on as he did.

 

[MacNit]

"We are one, two players away from competing for a championship."

Of course he was prophetic we got Derrick Williams and Justin King. 2005 rocked.

To make a comparison to this PSU's team future. Allar and the RB from FLA might play like history suggest and deliver this program and University the pride of Championship.
Is it possible that we can attempt on this new forum to support the Program and those within it, by offering constructive criticism, than insults (If possble. I know some on this board are road ragers and this is the outlet --Thank G-d). No doubt scream when there's a high injustice. But it would be nice to see posters lifting people up rather than putting them down.

But if we offer positive than negative direction, everyone will be better for it.

Shalom.


PS: pulled out the train set for winter to set up.

Need some old fashioned toughness and inspired, smart play. Joe’s teams had this even during the worst of times. No sign of this with CJF.

 

[Mufasa94]

Nope. Even “dark years” Joe was a better coach than Franklin. Sure, he had lost a step, but imagine if Joe had the talent this team has back then? There wouldn’t have been any dark years.

From ‘97-‘99 PSU had a ton of talent and more disappointment of potential special seasons than any PSU era of my life.

People age and they don’t function as well. It’s a fact of life. Can we please stop over inflating how things were after a certain point in time?

 

[GrimReaper]

Yeah, but Joe never played the kind of games with intimations of leaving and his contract that Franklin does.

 

[BobPSU92]

Some folks were ready to buy Joe a plane ticket and drive him to the airport to get rid of him back in ‘02.

 

[LaJollaCreek]

Paterno >>>>>>>>> Franklin

Of course he was in his prime. The problem is Joe was so content his last 2 decades he basically went into cruise control and his program fell way behind. Great man, great coach, but he too set PSU back in his last 15 or so years with his inability to see his program getting passed by. OSU drove right on by and waved looking through the rear view mirror.

 

[Connorpozlee]

"We are one, two players away from competing for a championship."

Of course he was prophetic we got Derrick Williams and Justin King. 2005 rocked.

To make a comparison to this PSU's team future. Allar and the RB from FLA might play like history suggest and deliver this program and University the pride of Championship.
Is it possible that we can attempt on this new forum to support the Program and those within it, by offering constructive criticism, than insults (If possble. I know some on this board are road ragers and this is the outlet --Thank G-d). No doubt scream when there's a high injustice. But it would be nice to see posters lifting people up rather than putting them down.

But if we offer positive than negative direction, everyone will be better for it.

Shalom.


PS: pulled out the train set for winter to set up.

Problem is the line. One or two skilled players can’t help you out if the line can’t block.

 

[Player2BNamedL8r]

From ‘97-‘99 PSU had a ton of talent and more disappointment of potential special seasons than any PSU era of my life.

People age and they don’t function as well. It’s a fact of life. Can we please stop over inflating how things were after a certain point in time?

I agree with everything you said, and still would take late 90’s Joe over the current staff. Especially on game days.

 

[Player2BNamedL8r]

Of course he was in his prime. The problem is Joe was so content his last 2 decades he basically went into cruise control and his program fell way behind. Great man, great coach, but he too set PSU back in his last 15 or so years with his inability to see his program getting passed by. OSU drove right on by and waved looking through the rear view mirror.

And yet his game management skills were still far superior to those of our current HC.

 

[LaJollaCreek]

And yet his game management skills were still far superior to those of our current HC.

Great, that's awesome. He left the program in a bad spot in terms of staying current though....he was too good for it all. He was above it all.....now the school and HC's are playing catch up and it's not so simple. I still remember him saying how he couldn't visit recruits as it was too big a distraction. For all of Joe's greatness and getting PSU to the top, he didn't have the drive or desire to put in the work to stay there as he aged. Unpopular opinion, but it's pretty clear that both OB and JF were both kind of shocked how far PSU was behind in the toys race. Joe could have snapped his fingers to raise money and it would have flowed in....but again... he was above it all.

I'm tired of Franklin's annual dating routine as well as the product on the field. He wants to be a top 5 paid coach with 1 title in 8 years and a 1-7 mark against tOSU coming off a losing season? If he didn't have a good recruiting class, this wouldn't even be a discussion right now.

 

[danvillenit]

From ‘97-‘99 PSU had a ton of talent and more disappointment of potential special seasons than any PSU era of my life.

People age and they don’t function as well. It’s a fact of life. Can we please stop over inflating how things were after a certain point in time?

Yup. The dark years were bad but 97-99 were also a failure. Not only did we lose three games a year we got shellacked in several including a prime time matchup with Michigan at home in 97

 

[Player2BNamedL8r]

Great, that's awesome. He left the program in a bad spot in terms of staying current though....he was too good for it all. He was above it all.....now the school and HC's are playing catch up and it's not so simple. I still remember him saying how he couldn't visit recruits as it was too big a distraction. For all of Joe's greatness and getting PSU to the top, he didn't have the drive or desire to put in the work to stay there as he aged. Unpopular opinion, but it's pretty clear that both OB and JF were both kind of shocked how far PSU was behind in the toys race. Joe could have snapped his fingers to raise money and it would have flowed in....but again... he was above it all.

I'm tired of Franklin's annual dating routine as well as the product on the field. He wants to be a top 5 paid coach with 1 title in 8 years and a 1-7 mark against tOSU coming off a losing season? If he didn't have a good recruiting class, this wouldn't even be a discussion right now.

I’d be the first to agree with you about the collateral damage from Joe staying way past his prime. If he just wanted to be a figurehead, then he needed to hire young, energetic go-getters to fill in the gaps from those spaces he wasn’t able to manage. He didn’t, and the program suffered for it. That said, even in his advanced age, he maintained his ability to manage a game from the sideline.

Again, I really like Franklin and wish things were working better for him than they are. He does a lot of things right. Just too many head-scratching sideline decisions…poor clock management…the inability to develop OL…the awful record against the other conference power brokers…and finally, the perceived flirtations with every other big vacancy on the cfb landscape. Sometimes it seems he cares more about the perception of the program than the actual results on the field. Ultimately, he’s not getting the job done, and has had a long enough audition to prove he’s not in over his head.

 

[razpsu]

Not from 2000 on. 2 good teams. 4 horrible teams. The other 5 filled with Morelli, Zach Mills, Seneca, and the like.

Paterno, 2000 on, 2 big championships, 3 10 win season and 8-1 in his final year. Yea ok whatever you say.

 

[Nohow]

We sometimes forget that Joe had an offer from NE in the NFL. He at first accepted, thought about it overnight and changed his mind.

 

[BrucePa]

The problems I see with this team were not typical of Paterno-coached teams.

This team has an O-line that waves at D-linemen and LBs that run through them like a hot knife through butter. This team has RBs and WRs that fall down as soon as they're touched or breathed on by the defenders. This team has arm tacklers that allow yards-after-contact in double digits. This team is 10-9 over the past two years, and is likely to finish 6-6 this year.

 

[Quint526]

The problems I see with this team were not typical of Paterno-coached teams.

This team has an O-line that waves at D-linemen and LBs that run through them like a hot knife through butter. This team has RBs and WRs that fall down as soon as they're touched or breathed on by the defenders. This team has arm tacklers that allow yards-after-contact in double digits. This team is 10-9 over the past two years, and is likely to finish 6-6 this year.

I call B.S. I have video evidence that #12 never uses his arms to tackle.

 

[GrimReaper]

Great, that's awesome. He left the program in a bad spot in terms of staying current though....he was too good for it all. He was above it all.....now the school and HC's are playing catch up and it's not so simple. I still remember him saying how he couldn't visit recruits as it was too big a distraction. For all of Joe's greatness and getting PSU to the top, he didn't have the drive or desire to put in the work to stay there as he aged. Unpopular opinion, but it's pretty clear that both OB and JF were both kind of shocked how far PSU was behind in the toys race. Joe could have snapped his fingers to raise money and it would have flowed in....but again... he was above it all.

I'm tired of Franklin's annual dating routine as well as the product on the field. He wants to be a top 5 paid coach with 1 title in 8 years and a 1-7 mark against tOSU coming off a losing season? If he didn't have a good recruiting class, this wouldn't even be a discussion right now.

Can't disagree that at the end Joe didn't do a lot of things that he should have. But if not upgrading facilities is one of them, there should be a huge pile of money laying around somewhere. So where is it?

Reality is that even if he had, the current regime would want it redone. Believe Franklin said something to the effect that certain things haden't been touched for 15 years.

 

[Pittston-Lion]

The problems I see with this team were not typical of Paterno-coached teams.

This team has an O-line that waves at D-linemen and LBs that run through them like a hot knife through butter. This team has RBs and WRs that fall down as soon as they're touched or breathed on by the defenders. This team has arm tacklers that allow yards-after-contact in double digits. This team is 10-9 over the past two years, and is likely to finish 6-6 this year.

Likely to finish 7-5, I appreciate the sentiment but they are a 17 point favorite this weekend. I don’t want to defend CJF here because these last two years have the program trending in the wrong direction, but the revisionist history of the last 15 years of the Paterno era is unreal. In 1997 and 1999 we saw highly ranked teams collapse in the last game of 1997 7-5 MSU ran for almost 500 yards. In 1999 number 2 PSU lost it’s last 3 games. In 2003 an absolutely loaded PSU team couldn’t hold leads and lost I think four close games. The dark years produced the four worst teams in the program’s history. Joe rarely beat OSU and they weren’t the power they are right now, as well as nearly 10 game losing streaks to UM and Iowa. 2005 and 2008 were great but there was a lot of disappointment in his last 15 years.

 

[Pennst8]

From ‘97-‘99 PSU had a ton of talent and more disappointment of potential special seasons than any PSU era of my life.

People age and they don’t function as well. It’s a fact of life. Can we please stop over inflating how things were after a certain point in time?

Yup. The dark years were bad but 97-99 were also a failure. Not only did we lose three games a year we got shellacked in several including a prime time matchup with Michigan at home in 97

Paterno, 2000 on, 2 big championships, 3 10 win season and 8-1 in his final year. Yea ok whatever you say.

And 26-33 from 2000-2004. Ugh. Those were fun years. His last full year 7-6. Not that impressive at all. His 3 Champ teams were fun and tough. 2-3 good teams in a 12 year span at the end wasn't that fun.

 

[GrimReaper]

We sometimes forget that Joe had an offer from NE in the NFL. He at first accepted, thought about it overnight and changed his mind.

Did Joe ever use that offer as leverage?

 

[Alphalion75]

I have to chuckle a bit when some people point out Joe's "dark years" in the 2000 decade when making comparisons to Franklin. Remember Joe was in his 70s and near the end of his career. A better comparison would be to compare the first 8 years of both careers. Here are the stats. Records: Joe 75-13, James 66-32....undefeated seasons: Joe 3, James 0. Bowl record: Joe: 4-1-1, James 3-3. Let's just look at the last 4 years of that 8 year period, just to be fair due to sanctions. Record: Joe 40-6: James 30-15. Undefeated seasons: Joe 1, James 0. Bowl record: Joe 3-1, James 1-1. And remember Joe's best decade was still years in the future...the 80s. Do we believe James future is as bright?

 

[Quint526]

Did Joe ever use that offer as leverage?

And even if he did, it was not almost ever blanking year.

 

[Quint526]

"We are one, two players away from competing for a championship."

Of course he was prophetic we got Derrick Williams and Justin King. 2005 rocked.

To make a comparison to this PSU's team future. Allar and the RB from FLA might play like history suggest and deliver this program and University the pride of Championship.
Is it possible that we can attempt on this new forum to support the Program and those within it, by offering constructive criticism, than insults (If possble. I know some on this board are road ragers and this is the outlet --Thank G-d). No doubt scream when there's a high injustice. But it would be nice to see posters lifting people up rather than putting them down.

But if we offer positive than negative direction, everyone will be better for it.

Shalom.


PS: pulled out the train set for winter to set up.

Did Franklin say that too? I thought that he was blaming the facilities.

I get your point and I appreciate your positive attitude, but this is a different situation.

 

[psu31trap]

I have to chuckle a bit when some people point out Joe's "dark years" in the 2000 decade when making comparisons to Franklin. Remember Joe was in his 70s and near the end of his career. A better comparison would be to compare the first 8 years of both careers. Here are the stats. Records: Joe 75-13, James 66-32....undefeated seasons: Joe 3, James 0. Bowl record: Joe: 4-1-1, James 3-3. Let's just look at the last 4 years of that 8 year period, just to be fair due to sanctions. Record: Joe 40-6: James 30-15. Undefeated seasons: Joe 1, James 0. Bowl record: Joe 3-1, James 1-1. And remember Joe's best decade was still years in the future...the 80s. Do we believe James future is as bright?

Pound for pound, over an entire career there’s no comparison, not even close. To try and compare the two on accomplishments is borderline insulting.

That 1986 Miami team was invincible and loaded with NFL Prospects. No one gave the Nittany Lions a shot. But coach Paterno’s work ethic, tenacity and dedication to detail all but eliminated that advantage. There was also a DC that we won’t mention who should be credited for shutting down one of the most explosive offenses to take the field. Four years earlier he shut down a solid Georgia team and Herschel Walker.

 

[Pittston-Lion]

I have to chuckle a bit when some people point out Joe's "dark years" in the 2000 decade when making comparisons to Franklin. Remember Joe was in his 70s and near the end of his career. A better comparison would be to compare the first 8 years of both careers. Here are the stats. Records: Joe 75-13, James 66-32....undefeated seasons: Joe 3, James 0. Bowl record: Joe: 4-1-1, James 3-3. Let's just look at the last 4 years of that 8 year period, just to be fair due to sanctions. Record: Joe 40-6: James 30-15. Undefeated seasons: Joe 1, James 0. Bowl record: Joe 3-1, James 1-1. And remember Joe's best decade was still years in the future...the 80s. Do we believe James future is as bright?

Yeah a fair comparison to what 1966 lol. Are you serious with that? Compareing 1990 to now is impossible never mind the 60s .Also and again I’m very disappointed with Franklin right now, but what he took over and walked into was a terrible situation, did we have 65-70 scholarship players? Joe made this program a blue blood and is the reason the program is what it is today, but comparing anything from 1966 to today let alone college football is utterly ridiculous.

 

[Alphalion75]

Yeah a fair comparison to what 1966 lol. Are you serious with that? Also and again I’m very disappointed with Franklin right now, but what he took over and walked into was a terrible situation, did we have 65-70 scholarship players?

My friend....everything is relative.

 

[Alphalion75]

Pound for pound, over an entire career there’s no comparison, not even close. To try and compare the two on accomplishments is borderline insulting.

That 1986 Miami team was invincible and loaded with NFL Prospects. No one gave the Nittany Lions a shot. But coach Paterno’s work ethic, tenacity and dedication to detail all but eliminated that advantage. There was also a DC that we won’t mention who should be credited for shutting down one of the most explosive offenses to take the field. Four years earlier he shut down a solid Georgia team and Herschel Walker.

Tell that to Pittston Lion.

 

[Speedie]

Not from 2000 on. 2 good teams. 4 horrible teams. The other 5 filled with Morelli, Zach Mills, Seneca, and the like.

It’s not even close

 

[Catch1lion]

Some folks were ready to buy Joe a plane ticket and drive him to the airport to get rid of him back in ‘02.

Rumor has it, Joe and Sue were out for scones and a latte, and the driver missed out on the opportunity.

 

[Pittston-Lion]

My friend....everything is relative.

Not even close to relative talking about starting a career in 1966 to 2014 especially something like big time college football. It’s like comparing Joe to the 1916 coach. There were 9 bowl games then for crying out loud. Hell Joe couldn’t maintain the pace he set in his first 8 years, and you want to compare a guy 50 years later who took over with 70 scholarships and the PSU name was in the dumpster. Saying Franklin is Joe or headed to Paterno levels is just as asinine a statement as trying to compare their first 8 years.

 

[razpsu]

And 26-33 from 2000-2004. Ugh. Those were fun years. His last full year 7-6. Not that impressive at all. His 3 Champ teams were fun and tough. 2-3 good teams in a 12 year span at the end wasn't that fun.

His last year was 8-1. To compare Franklin to paterno in any way is ludicrous.

 

[LaJollaCreek]

Can't disagree that at the end Joe didn't do a lot of things that he should have. But if not upgrading facilities is one of them, there should be a huge pile of money laying around somewhere. So where is it?

Reality is that even if he had, the current regime would want it redone. Believe Franklin said something to the effect that certain things haden't been touched for 15 years.

Where would the pile of money be for facility upgrades that Joe never fundraised for? It's probably in a lot of wills because people are pissed on how the school handled the end of his career. Right or wrong, had Joe snapped his fingers when he was alive he could get the money flowing.

I get there will always be work to do and totally agree with you there, but it didn't happen and the program is a bit behind. I'm all for OB and JF fighting for it, but JF flirting with bolting every year while delivering very average seasons lately doesn't sit too well with me. He could lose to Rutgers this week and it wouldn't be a huge shock as bad as his offense is....as well as lose his shrinking leverage he has over PSU right now. Then USC is hiring a guy who went 4-5 and 6-6 the last 2 years. It's hard to be loyal to a guy who talks about loyalty but wants to play this game annually. Signs a 6 year deal and 2 years in you have your hand back out....with **** for the on the field performance. You can fight for facilities without doing this each year, but it's an out for him either way. That is all it is at this point.

 

[Alphalion75]

Not even close to relative talking about starting a career in 1966 to 2014 especially something like big time college football. It’s like comparing Joe to the 1916 coach. There were 9 bowl games then for crying out loud. Hell Joe couldn’t maintain the pace he set in his first 8 years, and you want to compare a guy 50 years later who took over with 70 scholarships and the PSU name was in the dumpster. Saying Franklin is Joe or headed to Paterno levels is just as asinine a statement as trying to compare their first 8 years.

Have another beer my friend and relax. The sun will rise tomorrow.

 

[GrimReaper]

Where would the pile of money be for facility upgrades that Joe never fundraised for? It's probably in a lot of wills because people are pissed on how the school handled the end of his career. Right or wrong, had Joe snapped his fingers when he was alive he could get the money flowing.

I get there will always be work to do and totally agree with you there, but it didn't happen and the program is a bit behind. I'm all for OB and JF fighting for it, but JF flirting with bolting every year while delivering very average seasons lately doesn't sit too well with me. He could lose to Rutgers this week and it wouldn't be a huge shock as bad as his offense is....as well as lose his shrinking leverage he has over PSU right now. Then USC is hiring a guy who went 4-5 and 6-6 the last 2 years. It's hard to be loyal to a guy who talks about loyalty but wants to play this game annually. Signs a 6 year deal and 2 years in you have your hand back out....with **** for the on the field performance. You can fight for facilities without doing this each year, but it's an out for him either way. That is all it is at this point.

Not sure that PSU was that far behind the 8-ball facilities wise ten years ago. Most of the projects people point to have been built in the last ten years. Anything Joe could have raised money for in his last years would be dated by now.

 

[FrontierLion]

This thread makes me wonder - what was JVP's best team from 2000 on? I'd probably go with the 2008 B1G champs over the 2005 team. And what's the best James Franklin team? 2016 or 2017?

Anyway, if they could play each other, who would win? On paper I think James Franklin 2017 team has more talent, but I still may give a slight edge to the 2008 team, due to toughness/mean streak alone, something I think the CJF teams lack.