Some thoughts now that we head into the real part of the schedule.

Raysor

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Number one, is that I think we have a better DC and a better DB coach, now that MStoops doesn't have the responsibility to coach four, or more commonly five or six positions on the defense every snap. He has the freedom to spend most of his time on game plans and analysis of opposing offenses. I believe it means that no matter who was coaching OUr secondary, that they'd be better.

Obviously with pretty much everybody back, mostly very young last season, they're all better with experience. But Kerry Cooks deserves considerable credit. I'm particularly impressed with the performance of Dakota Austin. His coach has had him prepared when the moment came. Both Austin and his coach deserve credit for that.

OU's overall defensive performance has a lot to do with scheme. Mostly, I think it's because of line of scrimmage depth. and grown up linebackers and defensive depth overall. Frank stepped in and we didn't miss a beat. Lindley stepped in and was terrific. Dakota Austin has been at least solid, occasionally spectacular. It will be interesting to see how the D plays against the best three offenses on the schedule. They ain't done it yet, but we should all be encouraged that they will.

Second, Baker Mayfield, as good as he's played, I think is better than we're giving him credit for. First offensive snap of the game last night was the "flea flicker. Great design to get a guy that wide open. But the subtlety of Mayfield's throw has to be seen in replay to be appreciated.

Plays like that, a quarterback doesn't get his customary pre throw routine. It's an imprecise place that he will receiver the third exchanges of the "triple reverse," and on this one, he caught a pitch, and quickly had a guy in his face. He has to watch the ball hit his hands, set his feet quickly and find the receiver to get rid of the ball. Despite a wide open receiver, that was a very challenging play to execute. Baker made it look easy. It wasn't. His running is underrated. His TD run last night was terrifically athletice.

That's a segue into the third point. I was thinking this morning about all this SEC hype and how irritating it becomes after a while. Just off the top of your head, tell me who in the SEC has a quarterback who is good enough to start for OU this year. In the East? Certainly not Florida. UTenn? no. Arky is in the West. Allen was spectacular yesterday, but that was his exception, not the rule. Not Mizzou. Not Bama. Not LSU. Not A&M. Kelly is good, but not as good as Baker. Maybe MSU. Different guy. But they aren't a contender.

Non of the SEC contenders is close to OU at quarterback. I think maybe two guys in the conference MIGHT start for the top three in the Big Ten. Beathard at Iowa is better. Michigan State's Cook is excellent. Whoever tOSU puts out there is better. The SEC may have all these spectacular athletes on their defenses, but they don't have to play against the kind of passing games that you see elsewhere.

Ole Miss beat Bama last season. Boykin torched them to become a 2015 Heisman candidate. And TCU shut down their offense. Trevor Knight has been an on again off again quarterback at OU. But he torched an Alabama team two years ago that lost by an eyelash to the NC game runner up.

National talking heads keep talking about XII games using terms like Arena League. Some pro game has a lot of scoring, and an ESPN talking head jokes about wondering if he's at a Big XII game. Why? Because we have some quarterbacks? Yesterday Arkansas beat Ole Miss at Oxford 53-52. Is it possible that the SEC is really good at run defense with all those D athletes, but when a quarterback and good set of receviers show up, they look a little more than a little vulnerable. Let's not forget that Texas Tech is the SEVENTH BEST team in the XII at best. They beat Arkansas at Fayetteville, with a soph quaterback and a hurry up offense that is a pace the SEC doesn't like.

No wonder ESPN keeps making fun of the BIg XII. When those Arena League offenses play somebody from the SEC, they keep making those boring defenses look bad. OU went to UTenn with an offensive line in a rebuilding mess. And still dominated the second half and overtime. It was something that the Vols had pointed to as their coming out party. Then they went to Gainesville next and dominated Florida on the road before losing at the end to the East champ by a point.

I don't know who goes at the end. But whoever wins the XII deserves to be there if they win their three big games in November.
 

o_GoSeminoles

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SEC west is the worst I've ever seen it. I'm not convinced Bama is anything that special. They are good, but not special. We saw the results last year in the bowl games where the top 5 SEC west teams all lost. As a Texas fan, I still can't figure out how you guys lost, but college football is a weird game. I'd put OU, Baylor, OSU, and TCU against anyone in the SEC and they would do just fine. Rest of the Big 12 is terrible, but the top 4 are pretty good. I don't see a special team this year. Not like USC in 04, Texas in 05, etc... Lot of good teams, but nothing special this year. Take the top 15 and they can all beat each other.
 
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kwsusmc

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Still worried Mayfield holds on to the ball way to long and takes sacks where he should throw the ball away
 

bdshull2001

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I've seen this argument before Brent. I would counter with Baker is maybe holding on the ball to go through all his reads. It works and proof is his nearly 70% passing ratio. I'll also argue the point of him throwing it out of bounds, though your point is noted. We wanted a mobile q-b that makes things happen with his feet and Baker has been great. You can't make things happen when you throw it out of bounds. JMO.
 

rob90_rivals128078

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Mayfield is the least of my worries. O Line, D backs, game planning for Baylor O are at the top of my list. Mayfield's few sacks rarely involve fumbles and his scrambling ability and accurate passing more than make up for the sacks. See Iowa State game.
 
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SoonerTulsan

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Still worried Mayfield holds on to the ball way to long and takes sacks where he should throw the ball away

Yes, he does. Wonder if it's related to being told to try and stay in the pocket more? He looks like he's staying in the pocket when he wants to run at times.
 
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SoonerTulsan

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Great write up Plaino. I think Coach Mike has done a great job, and his players have executed very well and improved weekly. We finally have some depth and experience too.

Wouldn't it be cool for Bedlam to be for the B12 and a shot at the NC?

Sure glad we didn't fire Coach Stoops. ;)
 
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rkhufu7

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OU has the best defense making this run and should play like it. OSU know the Air-raid offense and can defense it well. OU is only Big 12 team with a legit shot at final 4 with one loss.
 

JB4AU

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There was a poll on the premium board and around half thought it would be a good idea about a week after the RRR.
Well that's the pay board. Typically after bad losses it's not exactly full of reasonable and logical fans.
 

Raysor

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The point is Billy, that there were plenty of Sooner fans who thought Bob's departure was a good idea. And as a pretty large critic of his, you and some of your buds foster an environment in tough times that encourages such thinking.
 
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JB4AU

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The point is Billy, that there were plenty of Sooner fans who thought Bob's departure was a good idea. And as a pretty large critic of his, you and some of your buds foster an environment in tough times that encourages such thinking.
And there it is. You can call out people from the pay board all you want. But get off your self-appointed pedestal in trying to attach what people on the pay board say is in line with my thinking as well. I've never called for Bob Stoops to be fired. I do however, hold coaches accountable for results on the field, and I have no doubt you have a problem with that. Just because a poll was done on the pay board, don't make an assumption that it needs to be preached over here. If you are so determined to hold such posters accountable for such things, then take yourself over there and take up the fight with the pay board posters.

And on the flip side of your statement, your position or line of thinking fosters an environment that a coach doesn't feel the need to strive for results because people like you believe he can do no wrong and is irreplaceable because he won a natty over 15 years ago. Now I never called for Bob to be fired or to step down, but I certainly felt if he wasn't capable of making changes to change the course of the program then maybe it was time to hang it up since that would be a sign of him losing his fire. But ya know what, Bob fired coaches and shuffled up his staff. So hell yes I'm 100% behind Bob Stoops for doing that!!

Plaino, I remember you several years ago beating your drum about how OU has "the best staff in the country". A quick question Plaino....where are most of those coaches these days??
 
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SoonerTulsan

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And there it is. You can call out people from the pay board all you want. But get off your self-appointed pedestal in trying to attach what people on the pay board say is in line with my thinking as well. I've never called for Bob Stoops to be fired. I do however, hold coaches accountable for results on the field, and I have no doubt you have a problem with that. Just because a poll was done on the pay board, don't make an assumption that it needs to be preached over here. If you are so determined to hold such posters accountable for such things, then take yourself over there and take up the fight with the pay board posters.

And on the flip side of your statement, your position or line of thinking fosters an environment that a coach doesn't feel the need to strive for results because people like you believe he can do no wrong and is irreplaceable because he won a natty over 15 years ago. Now I never called for Bob to be fired or to step down, but I certainly felt if he wasn't capable of making changes to change the course of the program then maybe it was time to hang it up since that would be a sign of him losing his fire. But ya know what, Bob fired coaches and shuffled up his staff. So hell yes I'm 100% behind Bob Stoops for doing that!!

Plaino, I remember you several years ago beating your drum about how OU has "the best staff in the country". A quick question Plaino....where are most of those coaches these days??

Breathe in...breathe out...breathe in...breathe out....
 
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Raysor

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Are you playing both sides? Are you saying that nobody here was calling for Bob's head, while you were?

You're such a fool that you seem to want to take credit for the staff changes.

In the last 16 years, when the Sooners have stayed healthy, they've competed for a conference title. When we've had key players get beat up and out, then the results were more than a little disappointing.

Bob wanted to go back to the spread. The reason he left it still is a factor. He kept getting his quarterback beaten up and that's happening again this year. But it is more explosive and there has been an upgrade at OC.

I find it funny that the big bashing here was for Mike and Josh. I believe Mike is still here and has proven he is a high quality DC when he was the guys. The most bragged about coach by you and your buds was at DL, and I think we've had a great hire there. And I like having OUr new DB coach, but it's a great fit because being DC and coaching half the position players on the field was too much.

You loved Norvell, but we have an upgrade at receiver coach, partially because the best asst coach on the staff moved there.

So I think that any staff with Bob Stoops leading it is the best staff in the America. And this one might be better.

But I beleive you were blaming coaches again after the RRR. I think Bob has shown he can right a ship. And We are lucky to have him. And you won't replace him, with better than him. And if we stay reasonably healthy, we might now be the best team in the conference. I would really like to see Alvarez back at left guard, though.
 
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villebj

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Someone bump the I'm sorry thread. I'm tired of doing it.
 

Snake98

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I don't recall ever seeing anyone calling for Coach Bob Stoops head. Mike is a different story. Having him off the field is paying huge dividends. Hoping it continues thru the last three games of the season. We have an offense that can score so all Mike needs to do is get his D to get a couple stops each half.
 

glevans22

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Over the years stoops and company have been badly out coached at times, yet other times a game plan has been nothing short of a masterpiece. I am very happy with Riley and stoops coaching from upstairs. Changes needed to be made and they were made.
 
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Unconquered

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Plano, great post very spot on. Let me add a couple of things. Without sounding to much like a homer..... I am a homer who am I trying to fool. Lol

First and for most Defense wins championships, OU defense is playing at a very high level right now. I will say stopping the run is still a work in progress imo. The offense will have no difficulties getting into the end zone on the next 3 opponentsthe D will be the game deciding factor going forward.

Let's take a peak at Baylor vs OU game.
While Baylor is on Offense they will have to beat us by running the ball, and short passes and bubble screens. If they try to go over the top they will have no success. If OU game plans for the short passes and get some linebacker support in the middle they will slow Baylor down.

OU will need to score and score often on Offense. They will need to do most of this with Baker, Perine, Mixon running the ball.

I can tell you now, I'm taking the points in this game. Very confident the staff learned their lesson last year. Also think they will be using MSU's game film from last year's bowl. OU wins this game.

Moving on to TCU, the D game plan will be the same except Bond will need to be used more, where ever Boykins goes he goes. OU does this it should be a lopsided victory at home.

On to little Brother, first the plan should be a lot easier. THEY have zero running game and I do mean zero. If our safeties play like they have been OSU will be lucky to Score 20 points. However the problem will be on the O side we will need to sustain drive and get good O line play or we will be lucky to Score 20 ourselves. OSU is winning the D battle, this is why they're undefeated. OU beats OSU but they will have to protect the football, and sustain drives.
 
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JB4AU

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Are you playing both sides? Are you saying that nobody here was calling for Bob's head, while you were?
While I was?? So you are still trying to hold onto your failed assumption that I was calling for Bob's head??

You're such a fool that you seem to want to take credit for the staff changes.

Where did I take credit for staff changes?? You really need to work on your reading comprehension before calling others fools. But since you decided to go there, let's take a look at who the real fool is....it's the guy who for years has boasted about OU having the best staff in the country. Yet, here we are a handful of years later, and the vast majority of that staff got canned. Sorry Plaino, but you are the one who looks like the fool for labeling a bunch of fired coaches as the best staff in the country.

I find it funny that the big bashing here was for Mike and Josh. I believe Mike is still here and has proven he is a high quality DC when he was the guys. The most bragged about coach by you and your buds was at DL, and I think we've had a great hire there. And I like having OUr new DB coach, but it's a great fit because being DC and coaching half the position players on the field was too much.

Yep...Mike has been awful the last few years. Some of the worst defensive performances in Sooner history happened under Mike. But let's not forgot the debacle at Texas this year. It wasn't the defenses fault about the loss, but that defense was horrible. Even Teddy Lehmen called it the worst coaching job he's even seen from Mike Stoops and even made a comment about how Mike must have literally fell asleep up in the booth. The defense has played damn well since then, but let's not forget the teams OU has been playing. Not exactly powerhouses. These last 3 games are the ones that will test the mettle of this defense.

And yes...the new DB coach has worked out great so far. But I guess BJW as being part of the "best staff in the country" maybe wasn't getting it done anymore right?? And yes, myself, my buds, and virtually everyone bragged about Monty when he was hired and the job he did. And so far, his replacement looks to be solid as well.

You loved Norvell, but we have an upgrade at receiver coach, partially because the best asst coach on the staff moved there.

You wanna talk about a straight up lie, or the fact that shows just how confused you really are. You really think I loved Norvell?? Do you seriously not remember the epic battles I had on here with JM and Texas fans over this?? Were you blind, or is this simply another case of your incompetent reading comprehension?? Norvell was awful. And he was another part of your so-called "best staff in the country". Twice during Norvell's tenure, when OU's top WR went down, the offense ground to a halt. OU rarely had any WR depth under Norvell. And it's amazing the number of highly touted WR talent that busted while at OU.

So I think that any staff with Bob Stoops leading it is the best staff in the America. And this one might be better.

Well no doubt Bob is one of the best coaches in the country. But just because he holds that title, does not mean his assistants automatically get labeled as one of the best in the country. That's nothing but sunshine pumping, crimson colored fan bravado speaking. And with Bob showing so many coaches the door in recent years, he apparently didn't agree with you Plaino.

But I beleive you were blaming coaches again after the RRR. I think Bob has shown he can right a ship. And We are lucky to have him. And you won't replace him, with better than him. And if we stay reasonably healthy, we might now be the best team in the conference.

Yes, the coaches are in fact responsible for the Texas loss. That's how it works. Once again, Mike not making any adjustments was pitiful. The offense holds the majority of the blame for the loss, but the defense was pretty atrocious, and let's be honest here.....thank god the Texas offense was incompetent or it could have been much worse.
And Bob's mention of how he prepared the team in the week before the Texas game is just awful. Absolutely awful. Showing your team over 100 times game footage of losing??? Who in their right minds would mentally reinforce to their team the idea of losing?? Good grief....
 

glevans22

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Plaino lied? No that's never happened;) By the way billyray your post was a masterpiece.... That's my new word
 
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RumphSquatch

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Number one, is that I think we have a better DC and a better DB coach, now that MStoops doesn't have the responsibility to coach four, or more commonly five or six positions on the defense every snap. He has the freedom to spend most of his time on game plans and analysis of opposing offenses. I believe it means that no matter who was coaching OUr secondary, that they'd be better.

Obviously with pretty much everybody back, mostly very young last season, they're all better with experience. But Kerry Cooks deserves considerable credit. I'm particularly impressed with the performance of Dakota Austin. His coach has had him prepared when the moment came. Both Austin and his coach deserve credit for that.

OU's overall defensive performance has a lot to do with scheme. Mostly, I think it's because of line of scrimmage depth. and grown up linebackers and defensive depth overall. Frank stepped in and we didn't miss a beat. Lindley stepped in and was terrific. Dakota Austin has been at least solid, occasionally spectacular. It will be interesting to see how the D plays against the best three offenses on the schedule. They ain't done it yet, but we should all be encouraged that they will.

Second, Baker Mayfield, as good as he's played, I think is better than we're giving him credit for. First offensive snap of the game last night was the "flea flicker. Great design to get a guy that wide open. But the subtlety of Mayfield's throw has to be seen in replay to be appreciated.

Plays like that, a quarterback doesn't get his customary pre throw routine. It's an imprecise place that he will receiver the third exchanges of the "triple reverse," and on this one, he caught a pitch, and quickly had a guy in his face. He has to watch the ball hit his hands, set his feet quickly and find the receiver to get rid of the ball. Despite a wide open receiver, that was a very challenging play to execute. Baker made it look easy. It wasn't. His running is underrated. His TD run last night was terrifically athletice.

That's a segue into the third point. I was thinking this morning about all this SEC hype and how irritating it becomes after a while. Just off the top of your head, tell me who in the SEC has a quarterback who is good enough to start for OU this year. In the East? Certainly not Florida. UTenn? no. Arky is in the West. Allen was spectacular yesterday, but that was his exception, not the rule. Not Mizzou. Not Bama. Not LSU. Not A&M. Kelly is good, but not as good as Baker. Maybe MSU. Different guy. But they aren't a contender.

Non of the SEC contenders is close to OU at quarterback. I think maybe two guys in the conference MIGHT start for the top three in the Big Ten. Beathard at Iowa is better. Michigan State's Cook is excellent. Whoever tOSU puts out there is better. The SEC may have all these spectacular athletes on their defenses, but they don't have to play against the kind of passing games that you see elsewhere.

Ole Miss beat Bama last season. Boykin torched them to become a 2015 Heisman candidate. And TCU shut down their offense. Trevor Knight has been an on again off again quarterback at OU. But he torched an Alabama team two years ago that lost by an eyelash to the NC game runner up.

National talking heads keep talking about XII games using terms like Arena League. Some pro game has a lot of scoring, and an ESPN talking head jokes about wondering if he's at a Big XII game. Why? Because we have some quarterbacks? Yesterday Arkansas beat Ole Miss at Oxford 53-52. Is it possible that the SEC is really good at run defense with all those D athletes, but when a quarterback and good set of receviers show up, they look a little more than a little vulnerable. Let's not forget that Texas Tech is the SEVENTH BEST team in the XII at best. They beat Arkansas at Fayetteville, with a soph quaterback and a hurry up offense that is a pace the SEC doesn't like.

No wonder ESPN keeps making fun of the BIg XII. When those Arena League offenses play somebody from the SEC, they keep making those boring defenses look bad. OU went to UTenn with an offensive line in a rebuilding mess. And still dominated the second half and overtime. It was something that the Vols had pointed to as their coming out party. Then they went to Gainesville next and dominated Florida on the road before losing at the end to the East champ by a point.

I don't know who goes at the end. But whoever wins the XII deserves to be there if they win their three big games in November.

I have to give credit - this is probably the best analysis of the strength (or weakness) of the SEC that I have ever read. It also explains the SECs record against Big 12 teams, or teams that play spread offenses. I'm firmly convinced that Saban wanted to ban the hurry up offenses because he knows he cannot beat them, and not because of the 'injury' factor he proclaimed...

And Plaino - reading between you and Billy - I will admit during the off-season I wanted Bob to make some changes. I don't think I necessarily called for his ouster, but I definitely wanted him to make more of an emphasis in recruiting, which I thought was the reason we were sliding away from the top end of the Big 12. However, with the play of Dakota Austin, PJ Lindley, and others I am willing to admit I may have been wrong judging the talent on campus. However, I would also point out play by others like (not naming names) certain OL that have been replaced, certain DBs that have been replaced, etc. Things like the re-kick to OSU I don't hold against Bob as I think half the posters here would have done the same thing in the heat of the moment. I don't have a problem with game decisions, but I did with this perceived 'lack' of recruiting, and our inability to scoop up top Texas talent.
 
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JB4AU

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First and for most Defense wins championships, OU defense is playing at a very high level right now.
No doubt I think this will always ring true. But also, I think these days in college football it appears the old standard of defense may be changing...or evolving. Nowadays with some of the offenses Mike is facing, it's unfair to compare him to his defenses in the early 2000's and presently. It's apples to oranges. And I 100% believe it's unrealistic to put an expectation on Mike to shut out offenses these days like he did during his first tenure at OU. It's just not realistic to think that is going to happen. The offenses are just on another level these days. Instead of shutting down teams like Baylor, I think a more realistic expectation would be to limit them to below 40pts or so. And the rest of the burden is on the shoulders of your teams offense to score often enough to put the team into a position to win late in the game.
 
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SoonerTulsan

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I have to give credit - this is probably the best analysis of the strength (or weakness) of the SEC that I have ever read. It also explains the SECs record against Big 12 teams, or teams that play spread offenses. I'm firmly convinced that Saban wanted to ban the hurry up offenses because he knows he cannot beat them, and not because of the 'injury' factor he proclaimed...

And Plaino - reading between you and Billy - I will admit during the off-season I wanted Bob to make some changes. I don't think I necessarily called for his ouster, but I definitely wanted him to make more of an emphasis in recruiting, which I thought was the reason we were sliding away from the top end of the Big 12. However, with the play of Dakota Austin, PJ Lindley, and others I am willing to admit I may have been wrong judging the talent on campus. However, I would also point out play by others like (not naming names) certain OL that have been replaced, certain DBs that have been replaced, etc. Things like the re-kick to OSU I don't hold against Bob as I think half the posters here would have done the same thing in the heat of the moment. I don't have a problem with game decisions, but I did with this perceived 'lack' of recruiting, and our inability to scoop up top Texas talent.

You're not the only one who misjudged, but one of the few willing to admit it. Kudos.

Lot of folks seem to forget the coaches are with, watching, and evaluating these kids every day. The reality is some kids look awesome in practice and are challenged when the cameras are rolling on game day. There's also a "reason" you don't replace a kid because of one or two "bad" games. These guys are pretty good at what they do. :)
 

Soccerpal

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No doubt I think this will always ring true. But also, I think these days in college football it appears the old standard of defense may be changing...or evolving. Nowadays with some of the offenses Mike is facing, it's unfair to compare him to his defenses in the early 2000's and presently. It's apples to oranges. And I 100% believe it's unrealistic to put an expectation on Mike to shut out offenses these days like he did during his first tenure at OU. It's just not realistic to think that is going to happen. The offenses are just on another level these days. Instead of shutting down teams like Baylor, I think a more realistic expectation would be to limit them to below 40pts or so. And the rest of the burden is on the shoulders of your teams offense to score often enough to put the team into a position to win late in the game.

I think limiting offenses to certain point totals has to be the new way of thinking in the B12. The problem in the past has been that we scored 12 and 14 on Baylor. BAYLOR! I have some confidence in LR, BM and the new offense. Just hope limiting our opponents to 25 - 30 points is enough.
It has been said in the past, but Mike Gundy brought it back up a week or two ago, with the Air Raid or any spread offense, you can't judge them by points/yards per game. You have to judge them by points/yards per possession.
In 2000, if Mike had to defend 8 possessions and 50 plays, the D is definitely going to give up far fewer points and yards, than if he has to defend 14 possessions and 88 plays today.
 

phillinois

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I think limiting offenses to certain point totals has to be the new way of thinking in the B12. The problem in the past has been that we scored 12 and 14 on Baylor. BAYLOR! I have some confidence in LR, BM and the new offense. Just hope limiting our opponents to 25 - 30 points is enough.
It has been said in the past, but Mike Gundy brought it back up a week or two ago, with the Air Raid or any spread offense, you can't judge them by points/yards per game. You have to judge them by points/yards per possession.
In 2000, if Mike had to defend 8 possessions and 50 plays, the D is definitely going to give up far fewer points and yards, than if he has to defend 14 possessions and 88 plays today.

Yep, it's all Bud Wilkinson fault.
He thought he was pretty cool pioneering the hurry up, no huddle offense in the fifties.
He even had a catchy name for it...'The Go Go'.

Now it's biting everyone in the buttocks.:rolleyes:
 

JB4AU

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It has been said in the past, but Mike Gundy brought it back up a week or two ago, with the Air Raid or any spread offense, you can't judge them by points/yards per game. You have to judge them by points/yards per possession.
In 2000, if Mike had to defend 8 possessions and 50 plays, the D is definitely going to give up far fewer points and yards, than if he has to defend 14 possessions and 88 plays today.

Man this is a great point.