Div I Wrestling and the perceived value of the regular season: Part 2 – Possible Answers

Old Number Nine · Tuesday at 11:03 AM

I’ve been thinking about what I see as a big problem with NCAA wresting at this time being, the lessening perceived value of the regular Wrestling season as to it’s value toward competing in the NCAA Tournament.

This has brought me to some possible actions that might enhance value of the Regular Season:

Have a greater regard to a Wrestlers regular season toward seeding such as…
- Apply a negative component if a ranked wrestler does not wrestle against another ranked opponent in a schedule event (Dual or Tournament).
  - I think should even include Injury defaults but maybe to a lesser degree.
    - There needs to be a consequence from dodging an opponent.
- Apply a positive component for wresting in Tournaments
  - Make a weighted list of Tournaments giving a greater value for the more important (such as National Duals)

I’m certain that you all have many other ideas for RS enhancement, thanks

chasepollard · Tuesday at 11:43 AM

You have to beat the best to be the best in March. I don't think ducking would hold much water.

Now, if a team went into NCAA's with team points already attached, we have some traction.

Ex. #1 SOS guy gets 3 team points before the tourney starts. Decrease by half points until zeroed.
Ex. Bonus % with a certain level of SOS gets 2 points.

Until we do stuff like that, March will be protected.

Corby2 · Tuesday at 12:01 PM

Old Number Nine said:
I’ve been thinking about what I see as a big problem with NCAA wresting at this time being, the lessening perceived value of the regular Wrestling season as to it’s value toward competing in the NCAA Tournament.

This has brought me to some possible actions that might enhance value of the Regular Season:

Have a greater regard to a Wrestlers regular season toward seeding such as…

Apply a negative component if a ranked wrestler does not wrestle against another ranked opponent in a schedule event (Dual or Tournament).

I think should even include Injury defaults but maybe to a lesser degree.

There needs to be a consequence from dodging an opponent.

Apply a positive component for wresting in Tournaments

Make a weighted list of Tournaments giving a greater value for the more important (such as National Duals)

I’m certain that you all have many other ideas for RS enhancement, thanks

Years ago when guys ducking started annoying everyone I said on a show with Willie that wrestling needed a points system. You publish the total weekly so everyone knows where they stand and the top 33 qualify and it runs through conference weekend. You don't wrestle you get no points . The way you finish in points is your seed at NCAAs

chasepollard · Tuesday at 12:32 PM

Corby2 said:
Years ago when guys ducking started annoying everyone I said on a show with Willie that wrestling needed a points system. You publish the total weekly so everyone knows where they stand and the top 33 qualify and it runs through conference weekend. You don't wrestle you get no points . The way you finish in points is your seed at NCAAs

My idea is better and March starts in November my way.

I agree that this "growing the sport" is not a major focus for coaches...so they get forced to. If you can walk into March with points already on the board, the dual and in-season tourneys would accomplish what all fans want.

Corby2 · Tuesday at 1:48 PM

chasepollard said:
My idea is better and March starts in November my way.

I agree that this "growing the sport" is not a major focus for coaches...so they get forced to. If you can walk into March with points already on the board, the dual and in-season tourneys would accomplish what all fans want.

Not sure if you missed what I was saying you get points for wrestling and if you don't wrestle you get no points those points would be the seeds at NCAA so every match would matter and that would start in November

Wrestleknownothing · Tuesday at 2:21 PM

chasepollard said:
You have to beat the best to be the best in March. I don't think ducking would hold much water.

Now, if a team went into NCAA's with team points already attached, we have some traction.

Ex. #1 SOS guy gets 3 team points before the tourney starts. Decrease by half points until zeroed.
Ex. Bonus % with a certain level of SOS gets 2 points.

Until we do stuff like that, March will be protected.

Corby2 said:
Years ago when guys ducking started annoying everyone I said on a show with Willie that wrestling needed a points system. You publish the total weekly so everyone knows where they stand and the top 33 qualify and it runs through conference weekend. You don't wrestle you get no points . The way you finish in points is your seed at NCAAs

Whatever system you come up with there will be a way to game it or it will be flawed. And then we will debate that.

chasepollard · Tuesday at 8:11 PM

Corby2 said:
Not sure if you missed what I was saying you get points for wrestling and if you don't wrestle you get no points those points would be the seeds at NCAA so every match would matter and that would start in November

I’m saying the season brings points to the tourney, not seeds. If the body of work throughout the season impacts the ability to get a title, the body of work matters…see CFB (for the most part.)

Well seeds could be impacted? MM at the 32…yeah, give me or my guy the bottom half haha.

Corby2 · Tuesday at 8:37 PM

chasepollard said:
I’m saying the season brings points to the tourney, not seeds. If the body of work throughout the season impacts the ability to get a title, the body of work matters…see CFB (for the most part.)

Well seeds could be impacted? MM at the 32…yeah, give me or my guy the bottom half haha.

We have already had 7 teams win the last 50 team titles and 4 teams won 46 of them . Having teams start with points will only widen the gap. Wrestling is an individual sport first and you do your job for the team. Let's leave the NCAA team championship and the way it's scored alone that's my opinion

chasepollard · Wednesday at 7:32 AM

Corby2 said:
We have already had 7 teams win the last 50 team titles and 4 teams won 46 of them . Having teams start with points will only widen the gap. Wrestling is an individual sport first and you do your job for the team. Let's leave the NCAA team championship and the way it's scored alone that's my opinion

It’s already been fooled with by the NCAA, covid and now NIL.

I don’t see what it hurts to have Nebby, OSU, Va Tech, etc. show up to the tournament with 10 points or so?

Maybe it would make PSU schedule more than 3 duals and send a team to Vegas?

Corby2 · Wednesday at 8:20 AM

chasepollard said:
It’s already been fooled with by the NCAA, covid and now NIL.

I don’t see what it hurts to have Nebby, OSU, Va Tech, etc. show up to the tournament with 10 points or so?

Maybe it would make PSU schedule more than 3 duals and send a team to Vegas?

Now I understand this is all about Penn St . Just because Oklahoma st is good again doesn't mean we need to change the format

Wrestleknownothing · Wednesday at 9:16 AM

chasepollard said:
It’s already been fooled with by the NCAA, covid and now NIL.

I don’t see what it hurts to have Nebby, OSU, Va Tech, etc. show up to the tournament with 10 points or so?

Maybe it would make PSU schedule more than 3 duals and send a team to Vegas?

PSU had the highest RPI of any team last year. Everyone wants to complain about their strength of schedule, but when you boil it down to who took the mat against them no one had it tougher.

This is the final RPI published by the NCAA last year prior to the conference tournaments

Corby2 · Wednesday at 9:31 AM

Wrestleknownothing said:
PSU had the highest RPI of any team last year. Everyone wants to complain about their strength of schedule, but when you boil it down to who took the mat against them no one had it tougher.

This is the final RPI published by the NCAA last year prior to the conference tournaments

Exactly now they will say but it's the big 10 and they don't schedule them

. Maybe that's why they don't schedule tough non conference duals because they've the best RPI without it

chasepollard · Wednesday at 9:47 AM

Wrestleknownothing said:
PSU had the highest RPI of any team last year. Everyone wants to complain about their strength of schedule, but when you boil it down to who took the mat against them no one had it tougher.

This is the final RPI published by the NCAA last year prior to the conference tournaments

Did not know that. Good rebuttal!

I wonder why PSU fans complain about the in-season schedule and lack of participation?

chasepollard · Wednesday at 9:49 AM

Corby2 said:
Now I understand this is all about Penn St . Just because Oklahoma st is good again doesn't mean we need to change the format

No, it isn't all about PSU. As the post below proves, the narrative that they don't Wrestle until March is incorrect.

Now, with the RPI chart provided, I don't think my idea is the best idea...unless PSU is exempt from pre-tourney points, which I am for (that is about PSU.)

chasepollard · Wednesday at 9:51 AM

Corby2 said:
Exactly now they will say but it's the big 10 and they don't schedule them . Maybe that's why they don't schedule tough non conference duals because they've the best RPI without it

That is good info! I wonder why it isn't talked about in media? Listening to FRL and Baschmania, it is constantly the boobirds on their competition level...which obviously isn't accurate.

Wrestleknownothing · Wednesday at 10:31 AM

chasepollard said:
Did not know that. Good rebuttal!

I wonder why PSU fans complain about the in-season schedule and lack of participation?

I am not aware of PSU fans with this complaint. I have only heard it from fans of other teams. The one knock you can make against PSU's schedule is usage rate. Everyone wants them to wrestle more matches. But they are not alone in this regard. They only rank fourth least among teams that qualified at least 7 wrestlers last year.

The match totals below are prior to the NCAA tournament.

The OSU total includes Jax Forrest. If you exclude him from the count OSU's average goes up to 19.6.

chasepollard · Wednesday at 10:41 AM

Wrestleknownothing said:
I am not aware of PSU fans with this complaint. I have only heard it from fans of other teams. The one knock you can make against PSU's schedule is usage rate. Everyone wants them to wrestle more matches. But they are not alone in this regard. They only rank fourth least among teams that qualified at least 7 wrestlers last year.

The match totals below are prior to the NCAA tournament.

The OSU total includes Jax Forrest. If you exclude him from the count OSU's average goes up to 19.6.

DOOD!

That is all you hear on pods and even some of the PSU posters that come here. Tom, I forgot his callsign, but wrote about OSU fans getting ready for "diluted" dual schedules.

Either way, I would like to see guys/schools get rewarded for in-season activity. Even if it means the evil empire benefits too.

Corby2 · Wednesday at 12:14 PM

Most fans don't deep dive and understand the RPI dynamics. They just want to see the big names dual regardless. And Penn st is a dynasty so people are gonna hate. Cael has a formula and it works and that also drives people crazy. Penn St fans are bored and some want to see them dual Oklahoma St and VA tech so those people complain Cael has been against national duals forever so he was never gonna participate.

chasepollard · Wednesday at 12:44 PM

Corby2 said:
Most fans don't deep dive and understand the RPI dynamics. They just want to see the big names dual regardless. And Penn st is a dynasty so people are gonna hate. Cael has a formula and it works and that also drives people crazy. Penn St fans are bored and some want to see them dual Oklahoma St and VA tech so those people complain Cael has been against national duals forever so he was never gonna participate.

Well, he uses unfair advantages, so there's that!

Old Number Nine · Thursday at 8:54 AM

Wrestleknownothing said:
PSU had the highest RPI of any team last year. Everyone wants to complain about their strength of schedule, but when you boil it down to who took the mat against them no one had it tougher.

This is the final RPI published by the NCAA last year prior to the conference tournaments

I obviously, don't know the numbers of how RPI is calculated but, consider this:

A case in which a PSU wrestler wrestles 10 matches against 4 top 10 wrestlers, 4 middle 10 and 2 bottom and an OSU wrestler wrestles 18 matches against 2 top, 8 middle and 8 bottom 10 wrestles.

The number of matches should count for something toward total RPI in a sport that is trying to promote the regular season as is should for NCAA Seed.

Wrestleknownothing · Thursday at 9:21 AM

Old Number Nine said:
I obviously, don't know the numbers of how RPI is calculated but, consider this:

A case in which a PSU wrestler wrestles 10 matches against 4 top 10 wrestlers, 4 middle 10 and 2 bottom and an OSU wrestler wrestles 18 matches against 2 top, 8 middle and 8 bottom 10 wrestles.

The number of matches should count for something toward total RPI in a sport that is trying to promote the regular season as is should for NCAA Seed.

Those are some pretty stylized numbers given that PSU wrestled both more and more difficult matches on average than OSU last year.

RPI is based on the wrestlers win percentage (25%), win percentage of their opponents (50%), and the win percentage of the opponents opponents (25%). It is an individualized strength of schedule measure.

The number of matches comes into play in the qualifying and seeding criteria where a minimum number of matches is required to have an RPI, a win percentage, a coaches' rank, and a pre-allocated spot.

Howie_Fartz · Thursday at 10:07 AM

The one thing I always noticed about psu is that their schedule isnt much until mid January. The Stanford dual in December was decent.

Old Number Nine · 2026-10-30T10:22:32-0500

Wrestleknownothing said:
Those are some pretty stylized numbers given that PSU wrestled both more and more difficult matches on average than OSU last year.

RPI is based on the wrestlers win percentage (25%), win percentage of their opponents (50%), and the win percentage of the opponents opponents (25%). It is an individualized strength of schedule measure.

The number of matches comes into play in the qualifying and seeding criteria where a minimum number of matches is required to have an RPI, a win percentage, a coaches' rank, and a pre-allocated spot.

Sorry, bad choice using RSU in that example. I don't know which teams are more or less "giving" to the quality of the regular season I just want it better. For all I know PSU is much better than we are.

Div I Wrestling and the perceived value of the regular season: Part 2 – Possible Answers

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