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David Taylor on how Oklahoma State wins NCAA team title: 'We have to be the best team in the history of wrestling'

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Efejle

All-Conference
Apr 30, 2023
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Its becoming interesting in one way: For the first time, David is experiencing a very similar problem that Cael has had for a decade: Who to put on the mat in a room that is too close to call.

I think the question people should be asking doesn't have to do with his program or how close they are closing the gap to PSU, but how is he going to handle the hard questions of who will produce the best results in March.

Don't get it twisted, because it ain't easy in that thin air and not even Cael got it 100 percent right every single time.
 
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M

McScoreley

All-Conference
Oct 31, 2021
564
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Efejle said:
Its becoming interesting in one way: For the first time, David is experiencing a very similar problem that Cael has had for a decade: Who to put on the mat in a room that is too close to call.

I think the question people should be asking doesn't have to do with his program or how close they are closing the gap to PSU, but how is he going to handle the hard questions of who will produce the best results in March.

Don't get it twisted, because it ain't easy in that thin air and not even Cael got it 100 percent right every single time.
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I'm not sure we ever had a situation quite like Dee Lockett.

Well I guess we kind of did ... DT was on the wrong end of that as everyone remembers.

But it's a little different since Cael was trying to establish a culture year 1, wanted his brother in the lineup and did have finite scholarships to give at the time whereas it's a lot easier for DT to keep everyone these days and let Dee work through it. Also, DT is trying to close the gap and fast so maintaining and harnessing talent is ultimately his priority 1 2 and 3.
 
M

McScoreley

All-Conference
Oct 31, 2021
564
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93
Efejle said:
Don't get it twisted, because it ain't easy in that thin air and not even Cael got it 100 percent right every single time.
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2018 197 maybe kept Cael up for several nights.

Shakur Rasheed:
1. Won the wrestleoff
2. Was a bonus machine with his cradle whereas Cassar was going to win a ton of decision matches that might even be too close for comfort
3. Seemed way less suspect to bad losses (he did lose to Darmstadt and Conel but Cassar lost to Holschlag, who Shak pinned, and Garrett Hoffman)

Like not a single data point made sense to pick Cassar except you couldn't help but think does he really just have the "it factor" where he THRIVES when the pressure is on and lights are brightest.

People forget before the Kollin Moore match, Cassar saved our initial streak against Lehigh as well (if he lost, Nevills basically has to pin Wood to win the dual)
 
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R

Random4598375

All-Conference
Jan 10, 2020
664
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McScoreley said:
I'm not sure we ever had a situation quite like Dee Lockett.

Well I guess we kind of did ... DT was on the wrong end of that as everyone remembers.

But it's a little different since Cael was trying to establish a culture year 1, wanted his brother in the lineup and did have finite scholarships to give at the time whereas it's a lot easier for DT to keep everyone these days and let Dee work through it. Also, DT is trying to close the gap and fast so maintaining and harnessing talent is ultimately his priority 1 2 and 3.
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Cael has had multiple examples of elite level recruits who couldn't crack the lineup. Connor Mirasola is the current version of this, and Facundo was the last one.
 
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Wrestleknownothing

All-American
Oct 30, 2021
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McScoreley said:
Dee watched two less heralded guys in his class (Robideau and Vega were both top recruits but IIRC Dee was consensus best kid in 2025 for Oklahoma State until Jax reclassed) win an individual title as true freshman, neither who ever favored while he DNPed when everyone thought he would be no worse than 3-4.

I imagine DT hoped that might have been the best motivator for Dee to change what he is doing ... and it doesn't seem like it was, which has to be frustrating because I imagine DT thinking to catch PSU would require Dee to be that guy.
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You recall correctly. Lockett was #3 overall (behind Blaze and Duke) prior to Forrest reclassifying. Robideau was #5 and Vega was #7.

We can argue the margins of less heralded for guys who are bunched so tight, but that was the order.
 
El_Jefe

El_Jefe

Heisman
Oct 11, 2021
3,946
16,249
113
McScoreley said:
I'm not sure we ever had a situation quite like Dee Lockett.

Well I guess we kind of did ... DT was on the wrong end of that as everyone remembers.

But it's a little different since Cael was trying to establish a culture year 1, wanted his brother in the lineup and did have finite scholarships to give at the time whereas it's a lot easier for DT to keep everyone these days and let Dee work through it. Also, DT is trying to close the gap and fast so maintaining and harnessing talent is ultimately his priority 1 2 and 3.
Click to expand...
Jake Kemerer
 
Goggles Paisano

Goggles Paisano

All-Conference
Feb 6, 2018
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Random4598375 said:
Ok, then how about Gulibon as an elite recruit who was expected to be a multi-title contender who never got anywhere close to that?
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Guliban, Facundo, Howard, Sealy, Berge, Beard, Ryder, Manville, Nevills.. One can argue just what level of blue chipper for some of those, but here have been several very high HS P4P recruits that were not National champions even once. This is partially offset by lesser guys who Cael coached up like Cassar and Dean. Nonetheless, Cael's track record remains unequaled, just a coursery look at TnTs and the twins top recruits over the last decade clarifies the picture, with most of their top level recruits that never win one, topped by someone in blue and white.
 
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Wrestleknownothing

All-American
Oct 30, 2021
2,389
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Goggles Paisano said:
Guliban, Facundo, Howard, Sealy, Berge, Beard, Ryder, Manville, Nevills.. One can argue just what level of blue chipper for some of those, but here have been several very high HS P4P recruits that were not National champions even once. This is partially offset by lesser guys who Cael coached up like Cassar and Dean. Nonetheless, Cael's track record remains unequaled, just a coursery look at TnTs and the twins top recruits over the last decade clarifies the picture, with most of their top level recruits that never win one, topped by someone in blue and white.
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I did something on this a year or so ago. No one comes close to Sanderson's ability to turn potential into actualization. I will dig it up.
 
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Efejle

All-Conference
Apr 30, 2023
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I didn't say that Cael wasn't an absolute MASTER of this situation: I said he d get it right EVERY SINGLE TIME

What I meant by that was Cassar/Shakur. I think he got it right every other time.

I don't believe David will get it right every single time either, and that absolutely matters.
 
D

Dogwelder

All-Conference
Aug 1, 2013
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Wrestleknownothing said:
.. PSU and Ohio St each brought in 18 top 10 Big Boarders. OSU turned them into 8 individual titles. PSU turned them into 26 individual titles. ..
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By random chance, the same thing happened to the same guy, Cael, more than 26 times.

 
M

McScoreley

All-Conference
Oct 31, 2021
564
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Random4598375 said:
Ok, then how about Gulibon as an elite recruit who was expected to be a multi-title contender who never got anywhere close to that?
Click to expand...
What point are you trying to make? Did I say Cael had a 100% hit rate?

Do you not see how Dee is a little different from any case we've ever had? A hometown talent who clearly has the ability in college and showed it early but fell short at his first NCAAs and seemingly still isn't trying to improve?
 
A

AgSurfer

All-Conference
Aug 9, 2013
756
2,385
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Efejle said:
I didn't say that Cael wasn't an absolute MASTER of this situation: I said he d get it right EVERY SINGLE TIME

What I meant by that was Cassar/Shakur. I think he got it right every other time.

I don't believe David will get it right every single time either, and that absolutely matters.
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Let’s not forget that PSU probably has the best coaching staff in the US. It’s not just Cael making these decisions. You can bet he is getting the input from CC&N and probably a few other people as well when these decisions are made.

So regarding DT, does he have the same depth in his coaching staff? Those guys are all fairly new and don’t have the same track record as the PSU crew. Maybe will turn out to be just as good but maybe they won’t. But I think it’s important to look at the complete picture when making those comparisons.
 
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HikeNatParks

HikeNatParks

All-Conference
May 12, 2023
226
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Watched DT’s media spot from yesterday. Definitely more forthcoming than Cael and nicely tabled the OSU/PSU dual talk as backburner stuff. Both teams will steer the course they feel best serves the common goal, a March title. Still shocked how quickly Iowa has become nearly irrelevant, even in the runnerup race. :unsure:
 
Fatwoodchuck

Fatwoodchuck

Senior
Oct 19, 2023
557
839
93
McScoreley said:
I'm not sure we ever had a situation quite like Dee Lockett.

Well I guess we kind of did ... DT was on the wrong end of that as everyone remembers.

But it's a little different since Cael was trying to establish a culture year 1, wanted his brother in the lineup and did have finite scholarships to give at the time whereas it's a lot easier for DT to keep everyone these days and let Dee work through it. Also, DT is trying to close the gap and fast so maintaining and harnessing talent is ultimately his priority 1 2 and 3.
Click to expand...
Cassar, Facundo, Ryder, DT and Bubba, Sealy, Its a huge list. It is just now that Dt isreally in his first roster battles of all his own recruits and not Johns. So yeah it will be interesting.
 
E

Efejle

All-Conference
Apr 30, 2023
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So, what happens to the backup behind Ross? Pretty good back up I think. Ross by the way is the real deal, I have him either national championship or runner up behind Keuter. I think Keuter is the only one who can stay with him. That was a huge pickup for DT. I wonder if they go with White now after he beat Berge? I don't see White breaking into that top 4, which is still insane, but he absolutely can get on the podium, and I don't see Berge getting up there.
 
Fatwoodchuck

Fatwoodchuck

Senior
Oct 19, 2023
557
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McScoreley said:
MUCH different from Dee, who did make the lineup and had a season that made everyone think he should have been a Top 4 guy as a true freshman.
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How many starters were not 4 year starters in the penn state lineup since cael took over? That's also what youd have to compare. Braiden might even get his fourth year.

Caels track record (as far as I know which isnt alot) is pretty damn good at picking the right guys to start and not having to portal or recruit over them.
 
C

Corby2

Heisman
Jul 14, 2025
5,561
12,319
113
Efejle said:
So, what happens to the backup behind Ross? Pretty good back up I think. Ross by the way is the real deal, I have him either national championship or runner up behind Keuter. I think Keuter is the only one who can stay with him. That was a huge pickup for DT. I wonder if they go with White now after he beat Berge? I don't see White breaking into that top 4, which is still insane, but he absolutely can get on the podium, and I don't see Berge getting up there.
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The guys who won will start this weekend. Dee Routledge Norman Berge White Jordyn Raney will all be at the Michigan st open
 
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Nitlion1986

All-American
Apr 13, 2024
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HikeNatParks said:
Watched DT’s media spot from yesterday. Definitely more forthcoming than Cael and nicely tabled the OSU/PSU dual talk as backburner stuff. Both teams will steer the course they feel best serves the common goal, a March title. Still shocked how quickly Iowa has become nearly irrelevant, even in the runnerup race. :unsure:
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Considering that Iowa has managed 1 runner-up finish in Cael's 13 championship seasons it is difficult to consider Iowa relevant in any runner-up conversation. 😁
 
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Nitlion1986

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Apr 13, 2024
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Efejle said:
So, what happens to the backup behind Ross? Pretty good back up I think. Ross by the way is the real deal, I have him either national championship or runner up behind Keuter. I think Keuter is the only one who can stay with him. That was a huge pickup for DT. I wonder if they go with White now after he beat Berge? I don't see White breaking into that top 4, which is still insane, but he absolutely can get on the podium, and I don't see Berge getting up there.
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They finish second either way, but now that it is 5 in 5 there isn't any reason to not put the best kid on the mat.
 
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PennState1985

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Mar 14, 2016
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Efejle said:
So, what happens to the backup behind Ross? Pretty good back up I think. Ross by the way is the real deal, I have him either national championship or runner up behind Keuter. I think Keuter is the only one who can stay with him. That was a huge pickup for DT. I wonder if they go with White now after he beat Berge? I don't see White breaking into that top 4, which is still insane, but he absolutely can get on the podium, and I don't see Berge getting up there.
Click to expand...
Keuter has zero shot at beating Ross. I’m calling that now.
 
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