2017 Outlook

[BigBluePhantom]

Back before the season started when most of us were predicting anywhere from 6 to 8 wins, there was much scorned group of posters who were saying that 5 wins was our ceiling this year and that next year would be our breakout year. Well, it looks like these people were right. What I would like to hear now is an explanation of why we will improve so much between this year and next. It seems that line play on both sides of the ball is the main problem this year. Is there reason to believe our line play will be that much better next year?

 

[ThePhoenix_rivals211191]

D Line play has to be better just because of depth and experience. I think the O line can just play better than they have the last 6 quarters.

I mean some of it's not personnel. Some of it is the personnel are capable of playing better. I mean UMass isn't talented but didn't get pushed around by Florida. Nichols St isn't, but didn't get pushed around by Georgia. The boys we have are capable of playing better than this.

 

[brianpoe]

Here are my thoughts:


If Stoops can turn this season around he can salvage recruiting this year and build on that next season with a quality group of experienced players that should be bowl bound regardless of this year's recruiting.

In this scenario recruiting maintains in 2017 and UK is on solid ground and can consistently build a winning program.


On the other hand...

If we continue to tank this year, this class will be much worse than anticipated.

Stoops will have much less enthusiasm and momentum next year but talented enough to win at least 5.

If this year sucks, next year's recruiting will not be very good either unless the team does extremely well.

Thus we have a crappy season this year along with less of a recruiting class, we have a good enough season next year in Barney's eyes to keep CMS with a poor recruiting class in 2017 giving us back to back mediocre recruiting classes to ensure several more years of mediocre football at best.

or...

Stoops is fired and the excitement of a new coach inspires recruits, along with a successful 1st season which will definitely be better than this year no matter who is coaching.

2017 recruiting picks up and we build on the momentum.

This scenario assumes MB will not be a major part of the process of selecting the next coach.


Tell me where I am wrong as I hang up and listen...

 

[UKErik]

Kentucky was just outscored 79-0 over a six or so quarter span by two unranked football teams. No, the team isn't in the ballpark of being where it needs to be.

As for next season, how much better will line play be? Probably not much, if any. UK actually has one very good o-lineman (Toth). He graduates after this season. The front seven might be better, but Eliot couldn't field a good defense that featured Bud Dupree and Zadarius Smith. I have little faith that he'll start next year.

GBB!!!

 

[BigBlueTuckian]

There are still many unknowns about the 2017 season but one thing will be a certainty: experience. We return 19 of 22 starters, and even if Boom Williams leaves we will have experienced backups.

Inexperience and youth will not be an excuse in 2017, no matter the quality of the talent.

 

[jauk11]

Some fans seem to think we have turned the corner in recruiting and now these coaches should beat most teams. And no doubt the play this year has been very un nerving, I can't imagine any coaching staff getting much worse results than the last two games. There has to be a BIG turnaround to salvage this season AND recruiting, although I think they have done a great job at that with dismal results before.

So we should be pretty equal with Florida in talent now, after all we HAVE improved it a GREAT deal.

Here are some facts about the relative talent of UK vs Florida just based on four stars, not a detailed analysis, (NO excuse for SMU debacle, or Florida for that matter).

Fifth year IMPORTANT senior leaders, (12 class): UK ONE four star in the 12 class (we did get TWO STAR Toth)-----Oh, I forgot, Towles transferred. Class was ranked 67th.

Florida fifth year class, ten four stars, class was ranked 13th.

Fourth year players, important experience, UK three four stars, one a JC, one a loser, only McWilson still playing (pretty good) but probably better younger players. Class was ranked 29th..

Florida fourth year players, FOURTEEN four stars, class was ranked fourth------with that lousy recruiter JOKER as RC.

Third year players, great class (for UK), EIGHT four stars, class ranked a respectable 18th. About half redshirted.

Third year Florida, twelve four stars, class was ranked fourth (one class was third?) with that dumb Joker still in charge of recruiting.

Second year players, two four stars, back to the thirties in the rankings.

Florida second year players, "only" five four stars, and fell to 23rd, Joker gone.

First year players, ONE (first legit this century probably) FIVE STAR. but a true freshman that didn't have spring practice, still going to be a player, with four year quota (for UK prior to Stoops) four four stars.

Florida nine four stars, finished 14th in the rankings.

So, in the previous five year UK has had eighteen four star commits, while Florida has had FIFTY four star commits, UK with ONE senior four star.

But that is NOT the big disparity, UK fans think Young will be a great player (I agree, but right now he is a true freshman without spring training) while Florida has had TEN FIVE stars, you know, real difference makers, players like Couch and Robertson.

Still a long long way to go, if we want to compete in the SEC. Recruiting is the key, IMO, and I think most agree this staff is good at that, but they will have to salvage this season to improve on what we have now, and next year is really critical.

They need help, not everyone stomping on them, they will be here all year I am sure and very likely next year if they rebound at all..

 

[ThePhoenix_rivals211191]

Some fans seem to think we have turned the corner in recruiting and now these coaches should beat most teams. And no doubt the play this year has been very un nerving, I can't imagine any coaching staff getting much worse results than the last two games. There has to be a BIG turnaround to salvage this season AND recruiting, although I think they have done a great job at that with dismal results before.

So we should be pretty equal with Florida in talent now, after all we HAVE improved it a GREAT deal.

Here are some facts about the relative talent of UK vs Florida just based on four stars, not a detailed analysis, (NO excuse for SMU debacle, or Florida for that matter).

Fifth year IMPORTANT senior leaders, (12 class): UK ONE four star in the 12 class (we did get TWO STAR Toth)-----Oh, I forgot, Towles transferred. Class was ranked 67th.

Florida fifth year class, ten four stars, class was ranked 13th.

Fourth year players, important experience, UK three four stars, one a JC, one a loser, only McWilson still playing (pretty good) but probably better younger players. Class was ranked 29th..

Florida fourth year players, FOURTEEN four stars, class was ranked fourth------with that lousy recruiter JOKER as RC.

Third year players, great class (for UK), EIGHT four stars, class ranked a respectable 18th. About half redshirted.

Third year Florida, twelve four stars, class was ranked fourth (one class was third?) with that dumb Joker still in charge of recruiting.

Second year players, two four stars, back to the thirties in the rankings.

Florida second year players, "only" five four stars, and fell to 23rd, Joker gone.

First year players, ONE (first legit this century probably) FIVE STAR. but a true freshman that didn't have spring practice, still going to be a player, with four year quota (for UK prior to Stoops) four four stars.

Florida nine four stars, finished 14th in the rankings.

So, in the previous five year UK has had eighteen four star commits, while Florida has had FIFTY four star commits, UK with ONE senior four star.

But that is NOT the big disparity, UK fans think Young will be a great player (I agree, but right now he is a true freshman without spring training) while Florida has had TEN FIVE stars, you know, real difference makers, players like Couch and Robertson.

Still a long long way to go, if we want to compete in the SEC. Recruiting is the key, IMO, and I think most agree this staff is good at that, but they will have to salvage this season to improve on what we have now, and next year is really critical.

They need help, not everyone stomping on them, they will be here all year I am sure and very likely next year if they rebound at all..

The problem is though that something else is amiss. Last year we were a play away from beating Florida, even with Towles playing awful. Year before we really outplayed them in the Swamp and was a play (or a blown call) away from beating them.

Now, I do believe that the missing guys on the D Line has led to massive shortcoming up front that is affecting the whole defense. And I do believe that Barker simply had as horrific a day as possible. I mean every time we had a chance to quell momentum he made a horrible play.

But personnel aside, after playing evenly with them two years in a row (and many of the same guys on both sides of the ball) we had no excuse to get beat like we did. In that fashion, so one sidedly. That's indicative of something bigger being amiss.

 

[buckkiller]

There are still many unknowns about the 2017 season but one thing will be a certainty: experience. We return 19 of 22 starters, and even if Boom Williams leaves we will have experienced backups.

Inexperience and youth will not be an excuse in 2017, no matter the quality of the talent.

It should be no excuse this year at all. I think we take a step back we loose Boom and Kemp. That is are only true proven work load in bacfield. They should be pissed being seniors and the teams effort is this. I would Love to see a turn around inly for them 2 players maybe few more. They deserve better.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

D Line play has to be better just because of depth and experience. I think the O line can just play better than they have the last 6 quarters.

I mean some of it's not personnel. Some of it is the personnel are capable of playing better. I mean UMass isn't talented but didn't get pushed around by Florida. Nichols St isn't, but didn't get pushed around by Georgia. The boys we have are capable of playing better than this.

Nichols St wasn't talented in most positions, but they had 2 DL who could play in the SEC, both in the 300-310 range and very quick. Only thing I can come up with is even after 2 years of JUCO they still couldn't get into 90% of the 4 year programs and had to go the Nichols route. They both would start for us this year. But the rest wasn't overly talented, we just couldn't handle those 2 guys and they disrupted our offense, especially when we were determined to run right at those guys.

 

[BlueRunner11]

Here are my thoughts:


If Stoops can turn this season around he can salvage recruiting this year and build on that next season with a quality group of experienced players that should be bowl bound regardless of this year's recruiting.

In this scenario recruiting maintains in 2017 and UK is on solid ground and can consistently build a winning program.


On the other hand...

If we continue to tank this year, this class will be much worse than anticipated.

Stoops will have much less enthusiasm and momentum next year but talented enough to win at least 5.

If this year sucks, next year's recruiting will not be very good either unless the team does extremely well.

Thus we have a crappy season this year along with less of a recruiting class, we have a good enough season next year in Barney's eyes to keep CMS with a poor recruiting class in 2017 giving us back to back mediocre recruiting classes to ensure several more years of mediocre football at best.

or...

Stoops is fired and the excitement of a new coach inspires recruits, along with a successful 1st season which will definitely be better than this year no matter who is coaching.

2017 recruiting picks up and we build on the momentum.

This scenario assumes MB will not be a major part of the process of selecting the next coach.


Tell me where I am wrong as I hang up and listen...

Fine with option A or C, preferably C imo

Too bad we all know we're headed down the scenario B road. What would be more "Mitch" and "UK football" than that?

 

[dvillecatfan]

I've been of the belief that 2017 would be the breakout year. I'm not the in-depth bigtime fan many of you are. With that said, the reasons i believe(ed) 2017 was the year.
1) Toughest games are at home.
2) All stoops players. Stoops knows what theses guys bring to the team.
3) Talented and experienced roster. Stoops has recruited better than anyone at UK and these young men have gotten playing time.

 

[gamecockcat]

What evidence is there that another year of experience at UK = better performance? I've yet to see this in 45+ years. I could name a whole host of kids who walked off the campus no better than they were the day they arrived. It boggles my mind that so many think another year magically makes a player better. Look at our offense - mainly Jrs and Srs and they flat out sucked the second half vs. USM and the entire game against UF. Are our OTs better this year because they got so much PT last year? The evidence says 'No'. Without player development (which is becoming a huge criticism of this staff), another year does NOT make a player better. Not at UK, anyway.

 

[brianpoe]

What evidence is there that another year of experience at UK = better performance? I've yet to see this in 45+ years. I could name a whole host of kids who walked off the campus no better than they were the day they arrived. It boggles my mind that so many think another year magically makes a player better. Look at our offense - mainly Jrs and Srs and they flat out sucked the second half vs. USM and the entire game against UF. Are our OTs better this year because they got so much PT last year? The evidence says 'No'. Without player development (which is becoming a huge criticism of this staff), another year does NOT make a player better. Not at UK, anyway.

Good point. What players have improved year to year since CMS arrived?

 

[jte123]

we are not breaking out this year or the next year.

 

[redbudman]

I think the players have already checked out!

 

[Bluetick2100]

2017 season
Bigger, stronger, faster as usual
same as 2016 4/5 wins tops again.

Ever see groundhog day.

 

[brianpoe]

2017 season
Bigger, stronger, faster as usual
same as 2016 4/5 wins tops again.

Ever see groundhog day.

 

[ThePhoenix_rivals211191]

Nichols St wasn't talented in most positions, but they had 2 DL who could play in the SEC, both in the 300-310 range and very quick. Only thing I can come up with is even after 2 years of JUCO they still couldn't get into 90% of the 4 year programs and had to go the Nichols route. They both would start for us this year. But the rest wasn't overly talented, we just couldn't handle those 2 guys and they disrupted our offense, especially when we were determined to run right at those guys.

Yeah, I didn't mean it as Nichols had nothing. Sometimes, like you detail, those schools end up with some players.

The point is while KY has some personnel issues, sometimes part of it is the personnel you have can simply play better than they are. It's like with App St almost beating Tennessee, and heck they're only 3 point dogs to Miami this week. App St is a good team and has some good players, but their personnel still aren't on the level of Tenn or Miami's athletes. But with effort, focus, preparation, a lesser player can play with more touted ones. That's why they play the games. The guys we have can simply put forth a much better effort than they have the last 6 quarters.

 

[ThePhoenix_rivals211191]

What evidence is there that another year of experience at UK = better performance? I've yet to see this in 45+ years. I could name a whole host of kids who walked off the campus no better than they were the day they arrived. It boggles my mind that so many think another year magically makes a player better. Look at our offense - mainly Jrs and Srs and they flat out sucked the second half vs. USM and the entire game against UF. Are our OTs better this year because they got so much PT last year? The evidence says 'No'. Without player development (which is becoming a huge criticism of this staff), another year does NOT make a player better. Not at UK, anyway.

Well, one assumes that some guys will improve. And some have at KY. Some guys just don't. That applies even to basketball and a coach like Cal coaching Poythress and Lee up for years and them not getting any better. Some guys just don't improve regardless. But many do.

But even if nobody improves, you should be better just because if you return a lot of guys you should have added depth. Just on that alone you should be better.

Typically, a team that returns a lot of starters will be better. There are exceptions to every rule, but that is generally the case. Actually, if I look at betting lines early in the season I always put a lot on how much is returning. With an OSU and Bama it doesn't matter much, cause they can return like 6 starters and just plug another guy in, but for most teams more returning guys means better team.

 

[barnacle77]

It all comes down to coaching and unfortunately CMS & Company have not shown that they can develop players, especially OL & DL, therefore I really don't see next year being any better than this year. I may have to eat my words one day but I've lost basically all faith in Stoops being able to get this team over the hump. I'm really hoping that this team has the light bulb come on for like Coach Brooks's team did at the same juncture, but I just don't think we have the right people in place to make that happen. Go Cats.