2025 Bears

[Hungry Jack]

The more things change, the more things stay the same.

If there is one thing the bears have perfected of the past decade or so, it is finding new and unusual ways to lose football games.

Last night was no exception. It was a brilliant loss at home to open the 2025 season.

New coaching staff, new scheme, many new players, and the same result: another craptastic loss characterized by an inability to make plays when they are most needed.

carry on.

 

[its_the_sauce]

Same old, same old.....

On the plus side it was a beautiful night and the moon looked awesome.

 

[Styre]

The hope is that things improve over the season and they stop doing this stuff. But it's the Bears, so...

 

[CatManTrue]

The more things change, the more things stay the same.

If there is one thing the bears have perfected of the past decade or so, it is finding new and unusual ways to lose football games.

Last night was no exception. It was a brilliant loss at home to open the 2025 season.

New coaching staff, new scheme, many new players, and the same result: another craptastic loss characterized by an inability to make plays when they are most needed.

carry on.

New season, same old Bears.

McCarthy winning was a surprise given his coaches weren’t able to illegally steal signals for him.

 

[hdhntr1]

The more things change, the more things stay the same.

If there is one thing the bears have perfected of the past decade or so, it is finding new and unusual ways to lose football games.

Last night was no exception. It was a brilliant loss at home to open the 2025 season.

New coaching staff, new scheme, many new players, and the same result: another craptastic loss characterized by an inability to make plays when they are most needed.

carry on.

I was never in love with the idea of using the #1 overall pick on Caleb Williams, He has interesting talent but not sure he is a winner, Thought they could have parlayed that pick into an OL and other assets that would have enabled a relatively average QB to succeed. Sorry but just not sure I see him as the winner that every one envisions. I have seen too many top picks at QB fail. Baegent may ultimately be the better QB. Not the best talent but a better head for the game. Of course if they play him in a couple games they might make him valuable enough to trade for a 1st roudn pick.

Hope I eat my words but based on past experience....

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I was never in love with the idea of using the #1 overall pick on Caleb Williams, He has interesting talent but not sure he is a winner, Thought they could have parlayed that pick into an OL and other assets that would have enabled a relatively average QB to succeed. Sorry but just not sure I see him as the winner that every one envisions. I have seen too many top picks at QB fail. Baegent may ultimately be the better QB. Not the best talent but a better head for the game. Of course if they play him in a couple games they might make him valuable enough to trade for a 1st roudn pick.

Hope I eat my words but based on past experience....

Poles would have been fired on the spot if he didn’t take Williams. As usual, QB gets all the blame when a team losses.

 

[its_the_sauce]

Poles would have been fired on the spot if he didn’t take Williams. As usual, QB gets all the blame when a team losses.

I totally agree with you for the 2024 draft. Given the needs on both lines I just don't get drafting a tight end in the first round this year.

 

[CatManTrue]

I totally agree with you for the 2024 draft. Given the needs on both lines I just don't get drafting a tight end in the first round this year.

I was also surprised by that given the turnstile at the Bears LT. I recall a UDFA from Yale was in the running during the preseason to protect Williams’ blindside.

It’s unfortunate: he has some incredible raw talent, but misses a lot of throws. It may be because he has Tim Couch disease after getting obliterated during his rookie season.

Micah Parsons must be licking his chops. He may get 3 sacks against this OL, even while injured.

 

[hdhntr1]

Poles would have been fired on the spot if he didn’t take Williams. As usual, QB gets all the blame when a team losses.

He isn't hired or fired by the general population, His move on trading the #1 overall pick the year before was brilliant. I wanted it done again. The history of QBs taken with #1 overall pick recently has not been great. Is it their fault? Sometimes but often it is where they go. Teams win and lose in the trenches

 

[hdhntr1]

I totally agree with you for the 2024 draft. Given the needs on both lines I just don't get drafting a tight end in the first round this year.

To be fair on the OL they felt that they had addressed that in Free Agency and somewhat in the draft. Did they do it well? Time will tell

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

He isn't hired or fired by the general population, His move on trading the #1 overall pick the year before was brilliant. I wanted it done again. The history of QBs taken with #1 overall pick recently has not been great. Is it their fault? Sometimes but often it is where they go. Teams win and lose in the trenches

He made the correct pick.

 

[Styre]

I was never in love with the idea of using the #1 overall pick on Caleb Williams, He has interesting talent but not sure he is a winner, Thought they could have parlayed that pick into an OL and other assets that would have enabled a relatively average QB to succeed. Sorry but just not sure I see him as the winner that every one envisions. I have seen too many top picks at QB fail. Baegent may ultimately be the better QB. Not the best talent but a better head for the game. Of course if they play him in a couple games they might make him valuable enough to trade for a 1st roudn pick.

Hope I eat my words but based on past experience....

Yeah but average QBs on good teams don't win championships anymore. The only average-or-below QB to win a Super Bowl in the last 23 years was Nick Foles, and he only did so by somehow playing at an MVP level in the playoffs. The goal is to win a title, and Caleb Williams has the potential to be a championship QB. Tyson Bagent does not. The best you can realistically hope for by going with the high-floor, low-ceiling guy is to be the Andy Dalton Bengals, winning a crap division every year and immediately getting blasted out of the playoffs by better QBs.

 

[CatManTrue]

To be fair on the OL they felt that they had addressed that in Free Agency and somewhat in the draft. Did they do it well? Time will tell

They still don’t have a NFL caliber left tackle based on what we saw in the first game

 

[hdhntr1]

He made the correct pick.

Time will tell, but so far, not seeing it

 

[hdhntr1]

They still don’t have a NFL caliber left tackle based on what we saw in the first game

They got the guy from BC in the draft but it does not look like he is the answer for that position. Poles has made some very good moves but also some very bad ones Hopefully the good will outweigh the bad

 

[CatManTrue]

I thought Caleb Williams was overrated in college… and now he’s playing like a bust.

 

[Hungry Jack]

Brutal all around

 

[its_the_sauce]

I thought Caleb Williams was overrated in college… and now he’s playing like a bust.

Is he a bust or is it as simple as the Bears suck?

 

[Arlcatsfan]

I know most posters are talking about the offense, but the D for Da Bears sucks eggs. Non-existent pass rush. The secondary is getting torched. No turnovers created. Goff could have thrown for 3 more touchdowns if the Lions needed it. The D collapsed in the 4th quarter against the Vikings Monday and that continued all game today. Da Bears looked like a beaten team on the sidelines. No emotion just a blank stare on their faces.
Well they have 15 games to go. Hope they can improve.

 

[Falcon86]

I thought Caleb Williams was overrated in college… and now he’s playing like a bust.

today was not Caleb….

the whole thing is a train wreck.
clobbered at the LOS. no one coild cover 14.

 

[CatManTrue]

today was not Caleb….

the whole thing is a train wreck.
clobbered at the LOS. no one coild cover 14.

The whole team is a mess, but Caleb has looked like one too. He looks skittish and lacks confidence on virtually every passing play.

Now the Vikings offense looks like a mess again against the Falcon. McCarthy is a bum and Williams lost to him too after he played like a bum for three quarters in the opener.

Bad Owners = Bad Professional Teams. Old Lady McCaskey needs to sell to the Ryans or someone else and let them find a winning coach.

 

[hdhntr1]

He made the correct pick.

Sure about that? Not from what I have seen, He still holds the ball too long, tends to be erratic with up and down accuracy, and seems to have a hero complex where he is looking of the spectacular play rather that take what is there (an example today was where the play was just to throw the ball out of bounds but instead he tries to make the spectacular play and instead throws the pick.. The OL is crap but he makes them look even worse. It takes him to long to digest what is in front of him.

Reality is that watching him play today was a lot like watching Stone on Sat.

 

[hdhntr1]

Yeah but average QBs on good teams don't win championships anymore. The only average-or-below QB to win a Super Bowl in the last 23 years was Nick Foles, and he only did so by somehow playing at an MVP level in the playoffs. The goal is to win a title, and Caleb Williams has the potential to be a championship QB. Tyson Bagent does not. The best you can realistically hope for by going with the high-floor, low-ceiling guy is to be the Andy Dalton Bengals, winning a crap division every year and immediately getting blasted out of the playoffs by better QBs.

Your statement is FALSE. Teams win and you have to get to the SB before you can win it. If one assume that supposed stud QBs (not avereage coming out of college) are taken in first round and generally in top half, then anyone taken in the second round or later could be assumed to be average at best coming out of college, Last year, Jalen Hurts, who was taken in the second round with the 53rd pick got there and won and he was in the SB two years before as well, The year before Mr irrelevant (last pick Purdy) got to the super bowl Grappolo made it to SB in 2019 and he was a late second round pick (62) It was Foles that won in 2018 (3rd round pick 88)) In 2019 Stafford(1st) made it but it took him 13 years In 2014 and 2015 Seattle and Russel Wilson (3rd round 75) made and won in 2014. In 2013 it was Kapernick (2nd round 36 pick that made it to SB and lost. In 2010 it was 2nd rounder Drew Breese that won. Could go on as in early 2000s you even get some late round guys like Brad Johnson or even undrafted guys like Curt Warner and Dehomes taking their teams to and some winning SB. Basically there are plenty of examples of lower rated guys taking teams to and winning superbowls. Those guys often made the players around them better, Have not seen that with Williams.

I am sure you could argue that these guys are not average but reality is that they were the definition of average NFL level QB draft pick coming out of college

 

[TheC]

At least you’re not Bengals’ fans. Yeesh!

 

[its_the_sauce]

Hey, I'm looking at the positive. Our draft position should put us in line to draft the best tight end in the draft.

 

[hdhntr1]

Is he a bust or is it as simple as the Bears suck?

Yes

 

[Styre]

Bad Owners = Bad Professional Teams. Old Lady McCaskey needs to sell to the Ryans or someone else and let them find a winning coach.

I suspect Old Lady McCaskey isn't going to be making any decisions going forward...

 

[Styre]

Your statement is FALSE. Teams win and you have to get to the SB before you can win it. If one assume that supposed stud QBs are taken in first round and generally in top half, then anyone taken in the second round or later could be assumed to be average at best coming out of college, Last year, Jalen Hurts, who was taken in the second round with the 53rd pick got there and won and he was in the SB two years before, The year before Mr irrelevant (last pick Purdy) got to the super bowl Grappolo made it to SB in 2019 and he was a late second round pick (62) It was Foles that won in 2018 (3rd round pick 88)) In 2019 Stafford(1st) made it but it took him 13 years In 2014 and 2015 Seattle and Russel Wilson (3rd round 75) made and won in 2014. In 2013 it was Kapernick (2nd round 36 pick that made it to SB and lost. In 2010 it was 2nd rounder Drew Breese that won. Could go on as in early 2000s you even get some late round guys like Brad Johnson or even undrafted guys like Curt Warner and Dehomes taking their teams to and some winning SB. Basically there are plenty of examples of lower rated guys taking teams to and winning superbowls. Those guys often made the players around them better, Have not seen that with Williams

I never said anything about draft position, I said you can't win with an average (or below) QB. You're more likely to get a better QB with a higher pick, but obviously you can get lucky and find Tom Brady in the 6th round. My point was that Bagent isn't Tom Brady and Williams is the only QB on the Bears roster with the potential to be good enough to win a title so they need to roll with him no matter what while he's here. If he's bad, then he's bad, and they'll have to find another QB.

(And yes, you have to get to the Super Bowl in order to win it, but you also have to win it in order to win it.)

 

[CatManTrue]

I suspect Old Lady McCaskey isn't going to be making any decisions going forward...

The whole family’s football IQ is suspect.

Then again… Pat Ryan did back you know who…

 

[hdhntr1]

I never said anything about draft position, I said you can't win with an average (or below) QB. You're more likely to get a better QB with a higher pick, but obviously you can get lucky and find Tom Brady in the 6th round. My point was that Bagent isn't Tom Brady and Williams is the only QB on the Bears roster with the potential to be good enough to win a title so they need to roll with him no matter what while he's here. If he's bad, then he's bad, and they'll have to find another QB.

(And yes, you have to get to the Super Bowl in order to win it, but you also have to win it in order to win it.)

What we are talking about is their perceived value coming out of college. Draft position is an indication of what the teams and GMs thought was the potential. In general there are about 9-10 QBs taken each year and about half of them taken in the first round (2022 was an exception with only one take in first round. So on average if a guy is taken in the second round there are usually about 5 guys taken ahead of them, So coming out of college if they are taken in second round they would be concidered average NFL QB talent or lower. Your statement was that average NFL QB had not won the SB (your only criteria for success) in 23 years (Other than Foles) and I showed that that is simply not true.

The real value of a QB isn't just if they have some athletic talent, It is really, do they make the people around them better, Williams has some interesting talents but thus far the answer to the question of whether he makes the people around him better is a resounding no. At this point, though he does not have the physical talent of Williams, Baegent is the better QB. Do I want to see Williams being successful? Absolutely. Will it happen? ???? Right now what I see is a guy that is slow process the information in front of him, holds the ball too long and is up and down in his accuracy, He also seems to think he has to make the spectacular play rather than just make the play in front of him, Can they be corrected? Hopefully. Will it? The real issue is the slow processing of the information on the field, Maybe if he had carried a clipboard for a year rather than being thrust into running for his life

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Sure about that? Not from what I have seen, He still holds the ball too long, tends to be erratic with up and down accuracy, and seems to have a hero complex where he is looking of the spectacular play rather that take what is there (an example today was where the play was just to throw the ball out of bounds but instead he tries to make the spectacular play and instead throws the pick.. The OL is crap but he makes them look even worse. It takes him to long to digest what is in front of him.

Reality is that watching him play today was a lot like watching Stone on Sat.

Damn close to positive he made the only pick it could have.

 

[hdhntr1]

Damn close to positive he made the only pick it could have.

I don't that if they used the pick that anyone else would have been the target. Again, I was not thinking of using the pick itself and choosing someone else. I wanted to see it traded as was done the year before, For the 2023 #1 overall pick we ended up getting two first round picks (the #9 in 2023, and what turned out to be another #1 overall in 2024 which probably would have been high but not #1 overall usually) Also got Moore who was worth another first round pick plus a whole lot more including a 2nd round pick this year. The team still had a lot of holes and I was looking at something similar to 2023 to fill them so that a real team could be put on the field.

Huge trade a gift that keeps on giving for Bears

Trading the 2024 #1 overall pick would likely have yielded a lot again (though not another #1 overall) and with it could have rebuilt the OL and DL and likely more.

 

[PURPLEBookCat]

Go Lions!

 

[Username Not Available]

The Bears, and they're not alone, have a long history of chasing the next greatest QB to put behind a weak OL rather than chasing the best OL and putting a moderately talented QB in a relatively safe pocket to keep doing damage for victory.

 

[Styre]

What we are talking about is their perceived value coming out of college. Draft position is an indication of what the teams and GMs thought was the potential. In general there are about 9-10 QBs taken each year and about half of them taken in the first round (2022 was an exception with only one take in first round. So on average if a guy is taken in the second round there are usually about 5 guys taken ahead of them, So coming out of college if they are taken in second round they would be concidered average NFL QB talent or lower. Your statement was that average NFL QB had not won the SB (your only criteria for success) in 23 years (Other than Foles) and I showed that that is simply not true.

No, that's what you're talking about, I'm talking about how good they actually are. I don't care what people thought their NFL talent would be when they were in college. Bagent is much, much better than what people expected from a guy who played for Shepherd University, but he's still a career backup. Williams is (thus far) worse than what people expected from the #1 overall pick out of USC, but he can still make throws that Bagent can't even dream about. The goal is to win the Super Bowl. If you don't have a QB that can do that, you have nothing, no matter where they were drafted or what their expectations were.

 

[Styre]

The Bears, and they're not alone, have a long history of chasing the next greatest QB to put behind a weak OL rather than chasing the best OL and putting a moderately talented QB in a relatively safe pocket to keep doing damage for victory.

You're a lot more likely to win a title with a great QB and a weak line than you are with a weak QB and a great line. The days when you could roll Trent Dilfer or Brad Johnson out there and say "don't screw up too much, let the rest of the team win it" and win a title are long over.

That said, can a QB become great behind a weak line? Good question.

 

[Username Not Available]

Fair enough, although my caveat was a moderately talented QB rather than a weak one. And tbh at this point, I'm looking for the Bears to find a way into the post season for a change. My superbowl dreams feel a few years away at best.

What I've seen over the last couple of decades is that a powerful O line can make even the most mediocre skill players look like stars, and a weak O line can make stars look like disappointing busts. I may be wrong, but I'm confident too, and that's where I'd spend my money and draft picks for a while.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I don't that if they used the pick that anyone else would have been the target. Again, I was not thinking of using the pick itself and choosing someone else. I wanted to see it traded as was done the year before, For the 2023 #1 overall pick we ended up getting two first round picks (the #9 in 2023, and what turned out to be another #1 overall in 2024 which probably would have been high but not #1 overall usually) Also got Moore who was worth another first round pick plus a whole lot more including a 2nd round pick this year. The team still had a lot of holes and I was looking at something similar to 2023 to fill them so that a real team could be put on the field.

Huge trade a gift that keeps on giving for Bears

Trading the 2024 #1 overall pick would likely have yielded a lot again (though not another #1 overall) and with it could have rebuilt the OL and DL and likely more.

Yeah, just difficult to trade the #1 pick in the entire draft in back to back year when the top pick is projected as a QB in both years and you haven’t had one in 40 years.

 

[Styre]

Fair enough, although my caveat was a moderately talented QB rather than a weak one. And tbh at this point, I'm looking for the Bears to find a way into the post season for a change. My superbowl dreams feel a few years away at best.

What I've seen over the last couple of decades is that a powerful O line can make even the most mediocre skill players look like stars, and a weak O line can make stars look like disappointing busts. I may be wrong, but I'm confident too, and that's where I'd spend my money and draft picks for a while.

Oh I agree, that should be their priority. I don't think it has to be a binary choice, I just think that if you have the opportunity to get a QB with serious potential, you should do that over getting a great offensive lineman. But in general, yes, they say "build from the inside out" for a reason.

 

[hdhntr1]

You're a lot more likely to win a title with a great QB and a weak line than you are with a weak QB and a great line. The days when you could roll Trent Dilfer or Brad Johnson out there and say "don't screw up too much, let the rest of the team win it" and win a title are long over.

That said, can a QB become great behind a weak line? Good question.

Sorry but even a "great" QB will look like dog meat behind a poor OL QBs best friend is a run game and if you don't have an OL you also don't have a run game. Combination makes it pretty hard for a QB to stay off his back.

And from what we have seen so far, Williams is a long way from being a great QB. While he has some interesting physical attributes, he has a lot of negatives. Takes to long to understand what is going on on the field so slow to make decisions and holds on to the ball too long, up and down accuracy, and not real good about taking responsibility. In short, does not make the people around him better, He is also pretty short for a QB as he is probably only 6ft or less (batted balls)