4.5 Hours Wasted

[catfans5]

Spent 4.5 hours going to, attending, and getting home. Picked and dropped a buddy off. Pretty hard to continue. Chris is below Bill’s success.

Filks talk about talent, but there is no Juice, Shurna, Drew or Vic on this team.

Our offense does not go to the basket or create any scenario to create fouls to get to the basket. Tonight, Beran finally took the ball to the basket. The only plays to the hooo are for Pete and Buie in the 2 man game. The rest of our players are stagnant. Audited made some aggressive plays following up shots. Otherwise, Beran, Berry and Greer/Audige just stand there making the 2 man game easier to defend.

 

[Sec_112]

Filks talk about talent, but there is no Juice, Shurna, Drew or Vic on this team.

It blows my mind how many people have said this team is talented ... of course always with that caveat that compares it to other NU teams - the tallest midget. I understand much of it is to promote the idea that Collins can't coach. But it's laughably myopic to think this level of bad could be reversed with a replacement-level coach.

Recruiting's obviously a problem. Luckily for the Crucify Collins Crowd that leads back to him also.

I don't know how many different ways a team has to lose and play badly before the general premise sinks in that this is a bad team for SO many reasons that include coaching. Give me 10 weaknesses on this team and a replacement level coach MIGHT change three of them. Buie would not be coached into impeccable shot selection at the same time Greer was gaining more confidence in his shot and Young was stronger to the hoop against good B10 front lines.

And even if those weaknesses were solved, that's just the tip of the iceberg with this team.

 

[IdahoAlum]

It blows my mind how many people have said this team is talented ... of course always with that caveat that compares it to other NU teams - the tallest midget. I understand much of it is to promote the idea that Collins can't coach. But it's laughably myopic to think this level of bad could be reversed with a replacement-level coach.

Recruiting's obviously a problem. Luckily for the Crucify Collins Crowd that leads back to him also.

I don't know how many different ways a team has to lose and play badly before the general premise sinks in that this is a bad team for SO many reasons that include coaching. Give me 10 weaknesses on this team and a replacement level coach MIGHT change three of them. Buie would not be coached into impeccable shot selection at the same time Greer was gaining more confidence in his shot and Young was stronger to the hoop against good B10 front lines.

And even if those weaknesses were solved, that's just the tip of the iceberg with this team.

This decision will be made for the administration because the arena will be empty (even without COVID) and Collins will be unable to recruit. We’re seeing signs of that now — one player signed for next year and one National recruit declaring “I need to go to a winning environment.” The administration won’t be crucifying Collins, they will be performing a mercy killing. Will they find someone better? Who knows. But they will have no choice but to look.

 

[TheC]

This decision will be made for the administration because the arena will be empty (even without COVID) and Collins will be unable to recruit. We’re seeing signs of that now — one player signed for next year and one National recruit declaring “I need to go to a winning environment.” The administration won’t be crucifying Collins, they will be performing a mercy killing. Will they find someone better? Who knows. But they will have no choice but to look.

This is the bottom line. There is no way Collins will be able to recruit based on the past few years. He can't sell any kind of upward trajectory. He can't sell a hot, new, innovative coach ready to build something exciting. There is nothing left to sell.

Once I saw Carmody's recruitment start to nosedive with his last recruiting class, that is when I knew it was time for him to go. I think we are now in the same place with Collins.

 

[its_the_sauce]

To compound the problem they screwed up the Chick-fil-A giveaway lol. Lots of people hanging in the lobby waiting for non-existent vouchers with staff really not knowing what to do.

 

[Jonny2TheP]

It blows my mind how many people have said this team is talented ... of course always with that caveat that compares it to other NU teams - the tallest midget. I understand much of it is to promote the idea that Collins can't coach. But it's laughably myopic to think this level of bad could be reversed with a replacement-level coach.

Recruiting's obviously a problem. Luckily for the Crucify Collins Crowd that leads back to him also.

I don't know how many different ways a team has to lose and play badly before the general premise sinks in that this is a bad team for SO many reasons that include coaching. Give me 10 weaknesses on this team and a replacement level coach MIGHT change three of them. Buie would not be coached into impeccable shot selection at the same time Greer was gaining more confidence in his shot and Young was stronger to the hoop against good B10 front lines.

And even if those weaknesses were solved, that's just the tip of the iceberg with this team.

This team is pretty talented, but they just don’t know how to win close games. Unfortunately, that makes them an average team. I said back in November that this is the year we find out if this team can use that talent and experience to win close games. There was no more “we’re so close” or “they just need to figure it out”. For this team, this year is it. They either make the jump or that’s it. Time is up. And while I know the season is only about halfway over, there is zero evidence they have made that jump. They just can’t pull out close games and in the end are an average team that could never get over the hump.

Pretty disappointing really. I do like these guys and think they all put in the effort and work to get to that next level, it just hasn’t happened and likely won’t.

 

[phatcat_rivals223240]

Just hire the championship coach of a lower level league and be done with it. I'm ok with 8-12, 16-16 or whatever, just not the continued suck, year after year. I aspire to mediocrity. Too old to wait for 10 years for another miracle

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

I think anybody who watches NU play is aware that the team has decent talent.

What I find strange is that when people correctly point our various realities about recruiting or player development or strategy or substitution anomalies or even the coach's demeanor, there is an instinct (by some) to shoot the messenger.

It doesn't make a lot of sense. The players and fans are not deliberately trying to undermine the coach.

 

[Sec_112]

This decision will be made for the administration because the arena will be empty (even without COVID) and Collins will be unable to recruit.

You really think it takes a poor recruiting class or an empty arena to emphasize the problem? If there's some longtime level of administration beyond Gragg and Blank who has input into this decision, they've seen this before, and rarely done much about it. I don't think that bothers them much.

The play on the court is more than making the decision for them. No uncertainty about that.

But you couldn't be more correct that it's a mercy killing. God love anybody that puts their soul and career into this gig.

 

[TheC]

You really think it takes a poor recruiting class or an empty arena to emphasize the problem? If there's some longtime level of administration beyond Gragg and Blank who has input into this decision, they've seen this before, and rarely done much about it. I don't think that bothers them much.

The play on the court is more than making the decision for them. No uncertainty about that.

But you couldn't be more correct that it's a mercy killing. God love anybody that puts their soul and career into this gig.

The one thought I had as I woke up to this morning's score was that no matter how depressed I felt by seeing it, Coach Collins must feel 1000X worse. I can't imagine the stress he is going through right now. He must realize this dream is ending.

 

[DaCat]

Spent 4.5 hours going to, attending, and getting home. Picked and dropped a buddy off. Pretty hard to continue. Chris is below Bill’s success.

Filks talk about talent, but there is no Juice, Shurna, Drew or Vic on this team.

Our offense does not go to the basket or create any scenario to create fouls to get to the basket. Tonight, Beran finally took the ball to the basket. The only plays to the hooo are for Pete and Buie in the 2 man game. The rest of our players are stagnant. Audited made some aggressive plays following up shots. Otherwise, Beran, Berry and Greer/Audige just stand there making the 2 man game easier to defend.

I feel bad for you. I watched the game on TV from over a 1,000 miles away and the game dragged on for 2OT even though I already knew that we would find a way to lose. It's a combination of Collins not pulling the right strings and the players choking or failing to deliver at key moments - a missed free throw, a missed layup, etc. At the end of the first OT we had a chance to inbound and win the game with just over 3 seconds left. So the play that we draw up in the timeout is a lob to Nance in the paint surrounded by three guys, and he never got the ball. WTF was that?

 

[lunker35]

To compound the problem they screwed up the Chick-fil-A giveaway lol. Lots of people hanging in the lobby waiting for non-existent vouchers with staff really not knowing what to do.

Wait really? The one game I miss. I guess I’m extra glad that I missed. Did they ever get you the vouchers?

 

[IdahoAlum]

You really think it takes a poor recruiting class or an empty arena to emphasize the problem? If there's some longtime level of administration beyond Gragg and Blank who has input into this decision, they've seen this before, and rarely done much about it. I don't think that bothers them much.

The play on the court is more than making the decision for them. No uncertainty about that.

But you couldn't be more correct that it's a mercy killing. God love anybody that puts their soul and career into this gig.

Not just a poor recruiting class — rather a poor recruiting future. It’s going to be nearly impossible to bring in kids with other Power 5 options under these circumstances. No recent history of success (5 straight bottom dwelling seasons), no fan base and no momentum for the program. At some point you have to pull the plug.

 

[its_the_sauce]

Wait really? The one game I miss. I guess I’m extra glad that I missed. Did they ever get you the vouchers?

I hung around for 5 minutes or so and left. I didn't need the sandwich that badly and my son didn't want to hang around given how late the game went.

You could tell other people were quite aggravated. It was also clear the staff were quite clueless about how to secure the vouchers. The kicker is the crowd size was so small I'm not sure how it could have been a problem logistically. Two years ago they gave them out for full houses with no problem.

 

[thewildcat2011]

I hung around for 5 minutes or so and left. I didn't need the sandwich that badly and my son didn't want to hang around given how late the game went.

You could tell other people were quite aggravated. It was also clear the staff were quite clueless about how to secure the vouchers. The kicker is the crowd size was so small I'm not sure how it could have been a problem logistically. Two years ago they gave them out for full houses with no problem.

We got ours just fine.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

We got ours just fine.

Then you left before the game was over.

 

[phatcat_rivals223240]

Then you left before the game was over.

Smart man

 

[thewildcat2011]

Then you left before the game was over.

Incorrect, saw every last miserable second of it.

 

[AdamOnFirst]

I think the perception of talent comes from our players being less obviously unathletic as they were in the Carmody era. Even our good players weren't particularly athletic, they could just shoot the lights out.

 

[TheC]

I think the perception of talent comes from our players being less obviously unathletic as they were in the Carmody era. Even our good players weren't particularly athletic, they could just shoot the lights out.

They are more athletic in the past, but one consistent thing I notice is that our players are across the board skinnier than our opponents. Other teams just have a thickness that our guys lack. The only guy who looks like a Division I athlete in terms of strength is our grad transfer. Young isn't skinny, but even after 4 years in Evanston, he doesn't look like his body has changed at all - no real muscle definition. I know people have talked about lack of strength development on the football board before. I am not a weight room guy so I know nothing about this, but it does make me wonder about our strength training program. Or maybe our guys are just too well-rounded to spend so many hours in the weight-room or too smart to put a bunch of dumb supplements in their bodies.

 

[rwhitney014]

To compound the problem they screwed up the Chick-fil-A giveaway lol. Lots of people hanging in the lobby waiting for non-existent vouchers with staff really not knowing what to do.

I got mine coming down the stairwell at the east exit. No problems there.

 

[phatcat_rivals223240]

They are more athletic in the past, but one consistent thing I notice is that our players are across the board skinnier than our opponents. Other teams just have a thickness that our guys lack. The only guy who looks like a Division I athlete in terms of strength is our grad transfer. Young isn't skinny, but even after 4 years in Evanston, he doesn't look like his body has changed at all - no real muscle definition. I know people have talked about lack of strength development on the football board before. I am not a weight room guy so I know nothing about this, but it does make me wonder about our strength training program. Or maybe our guys are just too well-rounded to spend so many hours in the weight-room or too smart to put a bunch of dumb supplements in their bodies.

"too well-rounded". Nice. Maybe less time at the training table?

 

[Sec_112]

The one thought I had as I woke up to this morning's score was that no matter how depressed I felt by seeing it, Coach Collins must feel 1000X worse.

I assume BTN didn't show Audige by himself staring blankly at the court while the rest of the team was gathering for handshakes as the refs are figuring out that last call. That was the essence of how bad a player felt.

Having said that, Audige was a little nutty yesterday. He was chirping with Maryland. He was halfway waiting for the refs at halftime and barked at them. He also needed to be called down in an OT timeout.

But I appreciate the fight.

 

[ParisCat_rivals]

Audige was really going after Boo during a timeout, I think it was after Boo dribbled down from 6 seconds to 3 seconds before calling the timeout in the 1st OT. It was almost a physical altercation. I don’t know if that’s good or bad.

 

[GatoLouco]

Audige believing it’s his job and not the coach to put pressure on refs = bogus 4th foul

Audige barking at Buie or anyone, despite the fact he could be right about wasting seconds before timeout = no bueno

Audige does not have the pedigree to step up and be the leader. Not when he jacks up shots that make me want to poke toothpicks in my eyes. It also makes me wonder if there’s any leaders amongst the players. There usually is in functional team and it grows organically. Thought Nance was playing a role there. Maybe not.

Having said all this, I appreciate he cares and that he can be a junkyard dog. Hope that gets channeled in a positive way

 

[No Chores]

In my opinion, Audige hurts us more than he helps us if he continues to take 3 point shots. His misses, typically, are bad misses, even when he is wide open. As Lou pointed out, he is 4 for 24 from 3 on the season. That is unacceptable. Last night was a classic example. Audige could have put us well ahead in the first half if he had made a couple of his wide open 3s. I think our opponents are getting wise to all of this and inviting him to take the 3. If I were an opposing coach I'd let anybody take a shot which he makes 1 out of 6 times. If I were Collins, I'd tell him to lay off the 3s and concentrate on defense, rebounding and setting up his teammates.

 

[TheC]

In my opinion, Audige hurts us more than he helps us if he continues to take 3 point shots. His misses, typically, are bad misses, even when he is wide open. As Lou pointed out, he is 4 for 24 from 3 on the season. That is unacceptable. Last night was a classic example. Audige could have put us well ahead in the first half if he had made a couple of his wide open 3s. I think our opponents are getting wise to all of this and inviting him to take the 3. If I were an opposing coach I'd let anybody take a shot which he makes 1 out of 6 times. If I were Collins, I'd tell him to lay off the 3s and concentrate on defense, rebounding and setting up his teammates.

His shot selection has certainly been poor, but I also wonder if his injury is affecting his lift on those shots. He wasn't THIS BAD of a shooter last year.

 

[DaCat]

His shot selection has certainly been poor, but I also wonder if his injury is affecting his lift on those shots. He wasn't THIS BAD of a shooter last year.

He has shown that he has limited range. He hits the mid-range jumper fairly well, but from the three, he's pretty bad. Also I like his energy and passion, but it can get out of control at times as already noted. I also think his injury isn't trivial, the announcers said it was his hip that kept him out at the start of the season, and now he's dealing with back spasms. So I doubt he is 100% healthy, which might be affecting his game.

 

[catfans5]

Audige believing it’s his job and not the coach to put pressure on refs = bogus 4th foul

Audige barking at Buie or anyone, despite the fact he could be right about wasting seconds before timeout = no bueno

Audige does not have the pedigree to step up and be the leader. Not when he jacks up shots that make me want to poke toothpicks in my eyes. It also makes me wonder if there’s any leaders amongst the players. There usually is in functional team and it grows organically. Thought Nance was playing a role there. Maybe not.

Having said all this, I appreciate he cares and that he can be a junkyard dog. Hope that gets channeled in a positive way

I don’t know if you could tell from your vantage point, but Audige plays really hard.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Audige shot almost 37% from 3 last year in Big Ten games.
2nd best on team behind Ryan Greer (45.5%).

 

[Katatonic]

This is the bottom line. There is no way Collins will be able to recruit based on the past few years. He can't sell any kind of upward trajectory. He can't sell a hot, new, innovative coach ready to build something exciting. There is nothing left to sell.

Once I saw Carmody's recruitment start to nosedive with his last recruiting class, that is when I knew it was time for him to go. I think we are now in the same place with Collins.

Carmody was hampered by Phillips when he was basically on a year to year contract, and he still landed one of the highest rated recruits in Jaren Sina.

That being said, CC's issues hasn't been so much recruiting on paper, but that so many of his top recruits fail to live up to their ratings (whether that be poor analysis of said recruits actual ability, poor development or both).

His best recruits (aside from Vic, who had to work on his O skills) were BMac and Pardon who were both 3*.

Have realistic expectations, so out of a 3 recruit class, don't expect more than 1 to be a legit B1G starter, another to be bench player and 3rd to see sparing minutes, but we haven't even seen that.

Carmody was never able to recruit the depth needed to overcome the inevitable injuries, but we knew immediately that Coble, Juice, Shurna, Crawford, Cobb were players and that's not counting guys further back like VV and TJ.

Nance is the only player on the team that would put on that level, but was expecting something like this from his soph season onward (he was supposedly the less physical but more skilled Nance brother).

Can't see how CC has much of anything to sell national recruits (can we consider getting players from NE a bust?) and due to his contract situation, don't see the program moving on from CC, so the only hope I see left is for CC and the staff to mine the Chicago-land area for under the radar hard-nosed and skilled recruits a la Juice, Shurna, Crawford.

For all the talk of CC's love for stretch-4s and skilled wings, we haven't exactly seen much in the way of that, and to make matters worse, they also don't have the ruggedness to bang in the B1G.

CC had that with his Tourney team in Pardon, Lumpkin, Law (despite his slight build) and Skelly.

Sobo was a bit underappreciated, but it says something when he is the 2nd best PG to play under CC.

 

[Styre]

I hung around for 5 minutes or so and left. I didn't need the sandwich that badly and my son didn't want to hang around given how late the game went.

You could tell other people were quite aggravated. It was also clear the staff were quite clueless about how to secure the vouchers. The kicker is the crowd size was so small I'm not sure how it could have been a problem logistically. Two years ago they gave them out for full houses with no problem.

Just got a message from NU marketing apologizing for the coupon snafu. Their solution: anyone who wants to drive out to the NU ticket office and show their Maryland ticket during normal business hours on a weekday can have their coupon for one $5 chicken sandwich. I'm sure they'll get a lot of takers.

 

[NUChicago]

Just got a message from NU marketing apologizing for the coupon snafu. Their solution: anyone who wants to drive out to the NU ticket office and show their Maryland ticket during normal business hours on a weekday can have their coupon for one $5 chicken sandwich. I'm sure they'll get a lot of takers.

OMG I just laughed out loud. Did you email them directly?

 

[thewildcat2011]

Just got a message from NU marketing apologizing for the coupon snafu. Their solution: anyone who wants to drive out to the NU ticket office and show their Maryland ticket during normal business hours on a weekday can have their coupon for one $5 chicken sandwich. I'm sure they'll get a lot of takers.

What do you want them to do? Mail you a $5 sandwich?

 

[Styre]

OMG I just laughed out loud. Did you email them directly?

No, they just sent out an email to ticket holders. Hard to do anything but laugh at this point.

 

[its_the_sauce]

No, they just sent out an email to ticket holders. Hard to do anything but laugh at this point.

I have to give them credit for recognizing their "fowl up" and making the attempt at an apology.

My suggestion would be come up with another promotion. When you think about it, having a promotion that depends on your opponent going to the foul line where they can score seems a bit odd.

 

[No Chores]

Audige shot almost 37% from 3 last year in Big Ten games.
2nd best on team behind Ryan Greer (45.5%).

Unfortunately, that was last year. This year is a different story, and he can't continue to hurl them up at a 1 for 6 pace. He might be injured, but what does that have to do with anything? He's hurting us if he continues to throw up the 3.

 

[Styre]

I have to give them credit for recognizing their "fowl up" and making the attempt at an apology.

My suggestion would be come up with another promotion. When you think about it, having a promotion that depends on your opponent going to the foul line where they can score seems a bit odd.

Agreed - it seems like any situation in which the opponent is getting to the free throw line enough to miss 8 shots is a situation in which you're likely losing the game. Just do a minimum score promotion like they did in the Carmody years. Except make the minimum higher than 70.

(And I don't really care about the coupon thing, I just think the amount of effort required to get one is silly)

 

[rwhitney014]

Agreed - it seems like any situation in which the opponent is getting to the free throw line enough to miss 8 shots is a situation in which you're likely losing the game. Just do a minimum score promotion like they did in the Carmody years. Except make the minimum higher than 70.

(And I don't really care about the coupon thing, I just think the amount of effort required to get one is silly)

I think the idea is to incentivize people to make noise when the other team shoots FTs. And it does work for that purpose.

 

[SimpsonElmwood]

I hung around for 5 minutes or so and left. I didn't need the sandwich that badly and my son didn't want to hang around given how late the game went.

You could tell other people were quite aggravated. It was also clear the staff were quite clueless about how to secure the vouchers. The kicker is the crowd size was so small I'm not sure how it could have been a problem logistically. Two years ago they gave them out for full houses with no problem.

I am perplexed at how bad the game day operations have been at NU for at least two decades. It’s bad when the timeout promotions are amateurish but they have to follow through with the promos when they are triggered. Especially when attendance is extremely low. How can they screw it up?