We have just got to find some minutes somewhere on that bench.
8 is enough 6 is not
- Thread starter BluePhil
- Start date
No team is going to win playing six guys. Might as well lose and get some other guys some experience.
Me either - lots of season left. Love watching my team play win or lose - it is in my blood.
I don't know what you do...you could go big with Plumlee,Obi,Ingram, Allen and Kennard. Bring Jones and Thornton off the bench with Jeter.
At least we should rebound well and have some depth. But driving lanes will be clogged..and defensive philosophy would have to be a total change.
I don't know what else you could try?? But this roster is a mess and that's on the entire staff. Your core philosophies have to change for this team and I'm not sure K will do that.
At least we should rebound well and have some depth. But driving lanes will be clogged..and defensive philosophy would have to be a total change.
I don't know what else you could try?? But this roster is a mess and that's on the entire staff. Your core philosophies have to change for this team and I'm not sure K will do that.
That's actually not a bad idea.. And even if you are winning with 6 players.. There is no way those 6 players will have anything left by the end of the season, so you're going to be put out quick.
I say change the lineup, let Jeter start at the 4 with Ingram at his natural position 3. I say bring Matt Jones and Kennard of the bench first and give Obi some minutes. With Jeter at the 4 we should be able to rebound the ball if nothing else. Plus by him starting that may help his confidence and might just play better. I would rather lose trying something different than continuing to do the same thing and it not working.
Especially since doing the same thing, even if it works better in the short run, only guarantees a certain early exit in March. Still remember the game we had against FL when we simply ran out of gas. I think this is what awaits in March if we just keep doing this 6 man rotation. (Does anyone know of a 6-person rotation team going deep in March? UNC had a very short bench in 97-98 season, as I recall.)
We don't have a bench that let's us go 8 deep - both Obi and Jeter have been given limited playing time and honestly haven't shown anything. We're in this position because we lost Sheed and Semi last year, Tyus surprised by going pro, both Jeter and Obi were recruiting misses by the staff, and Thorton plays like a high school senior.
The losses of Sheed, Semi and Tyus weren't anticipated. All three were figured in to be factors this season.
As for Jeter, it's a bit premature to call him a recruiting miss this early on. I mean, give the kid a little time.
As for Jeter, it's a bit premature to call him a recruiting miss this early on. I mean, give the kid a little time.
That was my point - the staff expected all 3 of them on this year's team.
Re: Jeter, if we're talking about this season, unfortunately we haven't seen anything to indicate he'll make an impact. He was rated 15th in the class, similar to Zimmerman, and ahead of Swanigan and Thomas Bryant. All of those guys have made impacts, and I expect the staff expected similar from Jeter. From that perspective - an impact this year - he's a miss.
By comparison, Skal at UK and Diallo at KU are really struggling too. They were the two top ranked bigs in the class.
It's amazing how the game has changed in such a short amount of time. These days freshman can't even get a whole year before being called a miss.
It's amazing how the game has changed in such a short amount of time. These days freshman can't even get a whole year before being called a miss.
I imagine that those that are calling Jeter a bust/miss just because he's struggling this season are probably the same ones that were calling Grayson a bust/miss last season and we all know how that's turned out this season.
I completely agree that options 7 and 8 on this team are not ready for ACC basketball, but what other choice does this team have? In the last 3 losses we are getting killed at the end of the first half and the last 10 minutes of the game (we also blew a double digit first half lead against Wake). Guys are just tired and K has to find some rest for the starters. Go back and look at how effective Ingram and Plumlee are in the first ten minutes of a game defending the paint and rebounding, then watch what happens as the game goes on.
You can't call him a recruiting miss by any means. He's a young freshmen. I hope you aren't basing the miss off of the previous freshmen that we have gotten (I.E. last year's group) because they were a special, once in a long while group of kids.
You guys are all sitting here typing on your computers/phones thinkin you have the answers lol. Coach K has given every scholly player a chance this year. The reason we are only losing by 2-5 in these games are because we are keeping MP3 in. Obi and Jeter playing more than 5-10 mins each would lead to a blow out.
We have an 8 man rotation except Coach K doesn't use them. I would try for a 5-10 minute stretch playing Jeter and Plumlee together at the 4&5, let Ingram go back to his spot at the 3 with Allen and Thornton starting too. Then bring Kennard and Matt Jones off the bench and let Obi play a few minutes for Jeter/Plumlee.
The last 3 games have been very close down the stretch and Duke has lost because of the players being tired I don't care what nobody says. Tired players give up driving lanes on defense, tired players miss key free throws and tired players have a tendency of fouling when they get beat and they definitely give up rebounds. Coach K needs to find a way to use the 8 man rotation slow the game down and then play your best 5 man lineup down the stretch to give the team the best chance of winning.
The last 3 games have been very close down the stretch and Duke has lost because of the players being tired I don't care what nobody says. Tired players give up driving lanes on defense, tired players miss key free throws and tired players have a tendency of fouling when they get beat and they definitely give up rebounds. Coach K needs to find a way to use the 8 man rotation slow the game down and then play your best 5 man lineup down the stretch to give the team the best chance of winning.
^ You should apply for the job when it opens up. You have all the answers.
I can't seriously believe that the staff anticipated Tyus to be here this year when they told Tyler Dorsey he wouldn't. Top 5 recruit, what did they really expect? I'm not mad about it, it worked out well.
K needs to bite the bullet and maybe some losses and put more than one big man in there. If all Sean freaking does is rebound, so be it, but we can't continue to get decimated on the glass like that.
No easy answers this year I'm afraid, but such is life.
K needs to bite the bullet and maybe some losses and put more than one big man in there. If all Sean freaking does is rebound, so be it, but we can't continue to get decimated on the glass like that.
No easy answers this year I'm afraid, but such is life.
I sure will do that. What would you say do? Coach K can't continue playing 6 players that will not work. Brandon Ingram gets in foul trouble because he is playing out of position playing the PF position that is a simple fix move him back to the SF position. At the end of the game those guys are tired, coach K needs to adjust minutes played in the 1st half.
Duke has the scoring to contend with any team. What has been killing them is REBOUNDING, Coach K has a 6'8 guy in Semi 6'10 guy in Jeter and a 7'0 in Vrank. If you are getting beat rebounding put another guy out there who can help rebound. In 2010 Coach k had a lineup of 3 scorers and 2 other guys who played defense and rebounded, lets try that same lineup this year with Plumlee Jeter Ingram Allen and Thornton and bring Jones Kennard and Obi off the bench. Atleast try it for one half and see if it works.
Tyus expected to be here this season, and that's firsthand knowledge. Things change, though. I'm ok with how that played out.
I think K has already bit the bullet in a sense by playing small. Even with the huge disparity in rebounding numbers Duke had a chance to win each of the last three games. Taking one of our strengths, which besides last night had been our offense, and sacrificing it to get a few more rebounds and lose offense might not be the best strategy, either.
I think it's time people accept that this is who we are. Sean and Chase just don't appear to be ready. Our best hope is adding Amile in the next four weeks and hoping we can get some things figured out in the meantime.
I think K has already bit the bullet in a sense by playing small. Even with the huge disparity in rebounding numbers Duke had a chance to win each of the last three games. Taking one of our strengths, which besides last night had been our offense, and sacrificing it to get a few more rebounds and lose offense might not be the best strategy, either.
I think it's time people accept that this is who we are. Sean and Chase just don't appear to be ready. Our best hope is adding Amile in the next four weeks and hoping we can get some things figured out in the meantime.
Playing seven or eight, if two of them provide little to no value, doesn't add a lot either.
Ingram is fine. The way the college game is he's not playing drastically out of position. I agree that more minutes exclusively on the perimeter is ideal, but is it a viable option right now? I don't know. Bottom line, Brandon was always going to spend time at the "four" with or without Amile. it just turns out it's more than expected now.
We'll see what tricks the staff can come up with. I have a hunch they're invested more than any of us and are looking at a variety of things to do.
Tired lol I don't get where people come away saying our guys are "tired" I assure you a game is less tiring then a full practice. I honestly don't believe people really think about what they are saying when they say 18,19,20 year olds are tired from playing a 40 min game
I agree with you Pisgah, I don't buy the tired legs crap. They must have been tired the first 3 or 4 possessions and the majority of the first half. The shots just weren't falling and there are going to be nights like that. Shoot, we missed lots of lay ups vs Utah. I still say the tired legs is a bunch of bull s**t! They're top D1 players and young, they can handle the minutes.
Many of these posters are acting like we've been blown out in 3 straight games.
We've had a chance to win all 3 games at the end. I'll take that with the youth and Amiles injury. I have to believe that Coach K will figure things out, he's not the G.O.A.T for nothing. This team will make the tournament. I like what I'm seeing from a competitive stand point. These kids have a lot of heart and K hurts more than any one of our negative posters can imagine. He will figure it out contrary to Get Nasty, K-oach Q, and adm 015!
We've had a chance to win all 3 games at the end. I'll take that with the youth and Amiles injury. I have to believe that Coach K will figure things out, he's not the G.O.A.T for nothing. This team will make the tournament. I like what I'm seeing from a competitive stand point. These kids have a lot of heart and K hurts more than any one of our negative posters can imagine. He will figure it out contrary to Get Nasty, K-oach Q, and adm 015!
I don't know much about Diallo, but Skal does certainly seem to be a bust so far.
I completely understand the frustration. I don't think there's a single Duke fan more frustrated than the next.
Is this team tired? Maybe, but I think it's more mentally than physically. To be honest, I think it's easier for a young team to get more tired than a group of veterans. It's about picking your spots and expending energy in a more efficient way....if that makes sense. Three of our top six are freshman. That's half. And I'm not sure any of those three came in with the accolades and expectations of last year's class. So following those guys adds another dimension.
We'll see. Next up is State and we need it bad. I know it's always "one game a time," but that couldn't be more true right now. This team can't afford to look ahead.
Is this team tired? Maybe, but I think it's more mentally than physically. To be honest, I think it's easier for a young team to get more tired than a group of veterans. It's about picking your spots and expending energy in a more efficient way....if that makes sense. Three of our top six are freshman. That's half. And I'm not sure any of those three came in with the accolades and expectations of last year's class. So following those guys adds another dimension.
We'll see. Next up is State and we need it bad. I know it's always "one game a time," but that couldn't be more true right now. This team can't afford to look ahead.
Does anyone know if Obi is hurt or does the staff think that he is not ready to play. Asking because K and the rarely miss on a prospect
Duke is struggling like we haven't seen in a long time but I wouldn't necessarily count them out. Virginia has lost like three of four, Kansas just got blown out, Kentucky is slipping farther and farther, OU just lost, Michigan State has dropped some. The list keeps going. If the coaching staff can get some magic worked the season can be saved. I remember last year people saying the season was over and then they heated up and never looked back, yet I know that talent was far better than this year. I also know people are knocking Thornton and Jeter but imagine if we didn't have them.
And why won't he give Marty Pocius any run?!? HAVE YOU SEEN HIS CALVES?!?! His calves are good for 4 rebounds per game, easy!
I will say this 6 might not be better than 8, but 7 could be just as good. I think if and when Amile returns, the strides made individually by Marshall, and the freshmen will place us nicely heading into March. Then at that point everyone will say: Well (insert expletive), K did it again.
Even considering those losses (could argue we had time to replace Semi and Sheed with a late commit, albeit not the kind that takes years of recruiting), we were looking damn good before Amile went down. K had us in great position once again. The fact that he brought Thornton in late in the cycle was great. Imagine our guard situation without him... K is stepping up and protecting his guys too, saying they are playing hard and that this skid is a coaching issue. I love our coach! We're spoiled.
Vrank was a late recruit. It's too soon to be expecting him to start making notable contributions, let alone deciding whether he ends up making notable contributions, so he might not be the type of late recruit you mean, but he was a late commit.
Derryck has been up and down as we should expect a guy who skipped his senior year of hs to be, but no doubt he was a really important get. I don't think word of his potential reclassification was leaking out until after Tyus declared; between that and their playing the same position, there's an obvious action-reaction, but in order to pull it off, there had to be some major groundwork already in place. It's probably a good sign that K had the equivalent of an ace-in-the-hole as opposed to randomly drawing a card we needed.
Does anyone remember how soon after Marshall's Army enlistment we were certain he was coming back for his final year of eligibility? My recollection is that it was fairly quick. As maligned as he has been by some, can you imagine where we could be right now without a 5th year Marshall Plumlee?!?
Plum3 took about a week or two to decide iirc. He certainly hadn't told K anything before the title. Our losses would've been blowouts without Marshall, and our best wins losses.