FB Recruiting An almost unprecedented move (warning: long)

[JRowland]

I spent my morning writing about the almost unprecedented move Lamar Thomas will make from Louisville to Kentucky, why it's so damaging to the Cardinals, and the unfortunate (but, I believe, unintended) unfortunate racial stereotype that some of the 'spin' perpetuates.

STORY: An almost unprecedented move

 

[frost1]

Nice read, JR.

 

[Lonesome Hippopotamus]

This article is perhaps the best article I have read in a while.. Thank you very much JR.. Your hard work shows man.

 

[vhcat70]

Good article.

Not sure how/why the FL/FSU cross-conference in-state rivalry was left out.

I don't think there's much overlap in the recruits the two schools go after outside Jefferson County. And the choice of many of those is a given going in. So we're typically talking 1-3 recruits a year imo.

I don't think Stoops's priority in going after LT was to make LV worse. If there was a significantly better WR coach choice available, I think he would have taken him & should have taken him. Why not make UK the best it can be over dragging LV down & leaving UK weaker than it could have been? Makes zero sense to me.

I don't think the racism, if any, is in saying LT is a good recruiter but in implying he can't coach.

 

[richbrookstomato]

Great read!

Thanks for outing the obvious biases that exist in the UofL spin machine.

 

[BigBoyBlueMMA]

Such a pleasure to read - and moreover, such a well written and truthful delineation of the Uof Smell Rhetoric - that proves that Jody Demling was, once again, tabbed the mouthpiece by the way they went after Coach Thomas and his NOW inability allows for everyone to see behind the scenes that there is grandiose level of butt hurt from UofSmell

 

[2330859]

Any reality that UL, or a UL fan offers to this rather bizarre development will be met with disdain and accused of "spinning" the story. However, here are three (3) facts that can not be disputed:
1. Nick Petrino is now, as he was all of the 2015 season the only WR coach at UL.
2. Lamar Thomas did not recruit a single kid into this 2016 recruiting class .............not a single one.
3. Lamar was extremely well-liked by the UL players, but for reason #1, he was an unhappy camper this last year and everyone knew he was leaving UL ..............just did not expect the timing or his new destination.

This does not mean that LT will not turn out to be a great hire for UK, and many here at UL sincerely wish him the best. I just think the misconception as to what contribution LT had at UL over the last 9 months on the UK side is inconsistent with the facts.

 

[Beatle Bum]

Excellent column. Not sure I agree with all of the opinions or the emphasis on the zinger side of this move, but it was a really good read and got me thinking of things I had not considered.

I think Stoops has his Kentucky team, his Ohio team, and now has his Florida team of recruiters. I think he realizes that between the core group of Kentucky kids and the Ohio connection, he did not have enough. Bringing in south Florida covers enough territory to make UK recruiting even better than it has been under Stoops.

This shows he is not static, but is growing into the job and making changes to the original blue print. All signs of a good CEO.

When I heard of this move all I thought was, "okay, did not see that coming (kudos to Stoops again). I wonder if he can coach and recruit." Nothing more. Just seems like business to me. But, I get the perspective Rowland offers and appreciate that filter.

Thanks.

 

[Glenn Fohr]

I love this guy!! I hated his guts while he was at the U. But his take no **** attitude is going to be good for this team. he will get in guys faces when he has to and sweet talk the momma's out there!! Great hire!!!

 

[Beatle Bum]

When I think about the timing, it leaked just before a dead period, so Thomas really cannot impact UK's recruiting this year like he could if he was announced a week before signing day. Seems that was probably a favor to his old boss.

 

[Dallas-Wild]

JR, Great work !

Really a great write up!

 

[How Blue Can You Get?]

"This is the kind of move Bobby Petrino would have made.
Don't take that as a knock on Stoops." -hilarious!

As far as the race thing, I think it was in poor taste for you to say that. If, as you said, it was not the writer's intent, then you should not have brought it up, as even bringing it up plants a seed and insinuates that their is some intent behind it. jmo, but the article would have been better without that portion.

 

[irishcat1965]

Any reality that UL, or a UL fan offers to this rather bizarre development will be met with disdain and accused of "spinning" the story. However, here are three (3) facts that can not be disputed:
1. Nick Petrino is now, as he was all of the 2015 season the only WR coach at UL.
2. Lamar Thomas did not recruit a single kid into this 2016 recruiting class .............not a single one.
3. Lamar was extremely well-liked by the UL players, but for reason #1, he was an unhappy camper this last year and everyone knew he was leaving UL ..............just did not expect the timing or his new destination.

This does not mean that LT will not turn out to be a great hire for UK, and many here at UL sincerely wish him the best. I just think the misconception as to what contribution LT had at UL over the last 9 months on the UK side is inconsistent with the facts.

3 facts that can not be disputed. [roll]

 

[Dallas-Wild]

3 facts that can not be disputed. [roll]

No kidding.....still waiting for one tard to say whether Nick is going to be hired into the position he currently holds.

 

[Beatle Bum]

In a negotiated move, Ms Powell has been hired as "WR coach" at UL. Jurich has decided she is as good a recruiter as Thomas and with Lil P on the staff doing the actual coaching, Ms P can focus on the art of recruiting.

 

[BigBluePhantom]

"This is the kind of move Bobby Petrino would have made.
Don't take that as a knock on Stoops." -hilarious!

As far as the race thing, I think it was in poor taste for you to say that. If, as you said, it was not the writer's intent, then you should not have brought it up, as even bringing it up plants a seed and insinuates that their is some intent behind it. jmo, but the article would have been better without that portion.

Poor taste? Are you kidding me? So, it is fine for people to go back 50 years and try to make UK look like racist but its not ok to call UofL out when it is happening right here and now? Racism doesn't have to be blatant to be offensive. The writer and all of the UofL fans who keep putting out the storyline that he couldn't coach may not have mentioned a word about race but they are relying on the stereotype to give their babble credence. That is indeed implied racism.

 

[theoledog]

Coach Thomas wouldn't have moved if he didn't wanna be here.... It's not like we kidnapped the guy... I mean, what if we'd have gotten one of RMK's assistants back when he was at Indiana? Lord knows we got a few Indiana players.... Why, I bet it was for the same reason we got Coach Thomas?.... Some guys don't like working/playing for an asshat!!!

Besides that all you gotta do is read all the ish on this thread .... UK peeps lots funnier than the dickweeds over on the red board.....
We sell ourselves.... And if you wanna know why they're so sports stupid over there I got an answer for that one also... Because most of'em spent more time play'n pocket pool than real sports... They do the best they can... god love'em....

 

[JRowland]

"This is the kind of move Bobby Petrino would have made.
Don't take that as a knock on Stoops." -hilarious!

As far as the race thing, I think it was in poor taste for you to say that. If, as you said, it was not the writer's intent, then you should not have brought it up, as even bringing it up plants a seed and insinuates that their is some intent behind it. jmo, but the article would have been better without that portion.

I'm not easily offended. I'm really not offended here. However, I do think that public people should be conscious of associations, stereotypes and realities that exist, in part because black coaches are the only ones who are ever stigmatized with that "just a recruiter" label. He said it and I have no doubt that the only intent was spin, not to insinuate that. But I also believe that you should be more conscious of how, when you just throw that out there, it's going to be received and potentially shape perceptions in an unintended way.

 

[Crushgroove]

Brother Bill Oliver leaving DC position at Bama in January for same position at Barn comes to mind. That was a huge deal.

 

[rmattox]

IMO, the heart of racism is barely beating in sports and most professions. It's not that we've become a better, more morally upright culture. It's simply that racism has been replaced by greed and focus only on the bottom line.

CMS is interested in the bottom line. Most coaches are. Most AD's are. If Thomas can improve the bottom line, it shouldn't and won't matter what color, gender, religion, etc... he is.

 

[How Blue Can You Get?]

I'm not easily offended. I'm really not offended here. However, I do think that public people should be conscious of associations, stereotypes and realities that exist, in part because black coaches are the only ones who are ever stigmatized with that "just a recruiter" label. He said it and I have no doubt that the only intent was spin, not to insinuate that. But I also believe that you should be more conscious of how, when you just throw that out there, it's going to be received and potentially shape perceptions in an unintended way.

I see what you mean, and don' t really disagree. I just think nobody would have thought about it that way had you not brought it up...I wasn't offended, or trying to call you out or anything...just the way I took it and thought it was worth a conversation.

 

[SanAntonioCat_rivals376502]

I'm not easily offended. I'm really not offended here. However, I do think that public people should be conscious of associations, stereotypes and realities that exist, in part because black coaches are the only ones who are ever stigmatized with that "just a recruiter" label. He said it and I have no doubt that the only intent was spin, not to insinuate that. But I also believe that you should be more conscious of how, when you just throw that out there, it's going to be received and potentially shape perceptions in an unintended way.

In other words, JR, African American coaches deserve our great respect for their ability not only as a recruiter, but an outstanding coaches. I truly think the majority of OP on this board feel the same way.

 

[JRowland]

In other words, JR, African American coaches deserve our great respect for their ability not only as a recruiter, but an outstanding coaches. I truly think the majority of OP on this board feel the same way.

I'm just saying I've covered recruiting for 15 years and that includes covering the recruiting of probably 30 different college football programs at various points during that time. The number of white coaches far outweighs the number of black coaches, yet black coaches are overwhelmingly (no statistic here, only my experience, although I'll stand by that experience) the ones who face the "just a recruiter" accusations and/or perceptions. If you look at individual cases a person may be able to justify it in many cases. But it really doesn't make sense that, A) Given the greater number of white coaches, B) Given that I've almost always heard that tag attached to black coaches, C) Coaching isn't always rocket science, and D) Media figures really aren't in a position to judge how good a position coach is, it is really unfair and I think it's a stereotype that has to be acknowledged in order to move beyond it.

 

[SanAntonioCat_rivals376502]

I'm just saying I've covered recruiting for 15 years and that includes covering the recruiting of probably 30 different college football programs at various points during that time. The number of white coaches far outweighs the number of black coaches, yet black coaches are overwhelmingly (no statistic here, only my experience, although I'll stand by that experience) the ones who face the "just a recruiter" accusations and/or perceptions. If you look at individual cases a person may be able to justify it in many cases. But it really doesn't make sense that, A) Given the greater number of white coaches, B) Given that I've almost always heard that tag attached to black coaches, C) Coaching isn't always rocket science, and D) Media figures really aren't in a position to judge how good a position coach is, it is really unfair and I think it's a stereotype that has to be acknowledged in order to move beyond it.

So, how does that change?

 

[RackOps]

Today I learned that Ron Zook is black.

 

[Beatle Bum]

So Vince Marrow is or is not a greater recruiter? Which of those conclusions is least racist? Have we been giving Vince too much credit for being black?

 

[JRowland]

Today I learned that Ron Zook is black.

Ron Zook was a head coach at Florida and then after doing an awful job there got another Power Five coaching job. Doesn't exactly disprove the point that the stereotype is disproportionately applied to black coaches.

 

[JRowland]

So Vince Marrow is or is not a greater recruiter? Which of those conclusions is least racist? Have we been giving Vince too much credit for being black?

The issue isn't saying Marrow is a great recruiter. The issue is insinuating, disproportionately - and I'm talking fans, media, etc., - that coaches like Marrow, Thomas, etc., are just recruiters and 'not' coaches.

The "he's a recruiter" comment was a passive aggressive and immature (not to mention unbelievable, given the timing and the audience) statement not so much about his recruiting as about his coaching, or lack thereof.

 

[JRowland]

So, how does that change?

Media figures should first off stop pretending like they know more than they do. I don't care if he walked around five practices and it didn't look like Lamar Thomas was coaching the same way other coaches were. Watching somebody five times doesn't make you an expert on what they say in the film room, at the staff's tables or to the players under their watch. It isn't rocket science. Sure, some coaches are brighter than others in terms of being football minds and knowing what buttons to push. But more than anything being a great position coach is about being able to motivate your players to play for you and to set them on the right track to develop themselves in accord with basic fundamental football principles that pretty much every position coach at every position in the country is teaching in some way.

 

[Beatle Bum]

The issue isn't saying Marrow is a great recruiter. The issue is insinuating, disproportionately - and I'm talking fans, media, etc., - that coaches like Marrow, Thomas, etc., are just recruiters and 'not' coaches.

The "he's a recruiter" comment was a passive aggressive and immature (not to mention unbelievable, given the timing and the audience) statement not so much about his recruiting as about his coaching, or lack thereof.

I will be honest. I have no idea whether Vince is a great coach. I am confident he is a great recruiter. I also think Harbaugh put the press on him for his Ohio dominance in recruiting. The guy coaches TEs and was not a full time staffer at Neb. I do not know whether you have ever analyzed his coaching skills for the fans, but I do not recall any story about his coaching acumen.

I simply know he played TE well for years and has coaching experience in Europe. But, is he good at that? As a UK fan, I hope so, but I also hope that if he is a subpar coach, it is okay for me to say and like that he is an amazing recruiter without someone suggesting there is a racial component to my comment. Jody grew up on the sidelines of a football field, literally. He may know whether someone is a good coach. That opinion may be offered without any comment about race. So, the suggestion that his comment is a good time to discuss this may be extremely unfair to him and more about your perception than his intent, feeling or bias.

So, while I appreciated your comments about that response, in the context of Demling, I think it unfair to characterize his intent. His intent was to express to UL fans that this may not be a coaching loss, but only a recruiter loss. That can be said without inference to race.

 

[canebreak]

I think there are a lot of racial overtones in the Louisville media comments. I wonder how many UL players are sad to see Lamar go? We will never get that story.

 

[Beatle Bum]

I wonder how many UL players are sad to see Lamar go? We will never get that story.

We know Burgess was not happy.

 

[atticusfitch]

I think there are a lot of racial overtones in the Louisville media comments. I wonder how many UL players are sad to see Lamar go? We will never get that story.

How does a wr coach changing jobs become a story involving racism? The entire controversy has been manufactured for sensationalism. Cat fans are happy-Louisville fans are not.

 

[shutzhund]

Welcome coach Thomas.[banana]

 

[UKCatNnc]

Thanks for the article JRowland. I fully expect Coach Thomas to be a good coach. Do you know who made the initial contact in this change. Did Coach Thomas respond to the open position or did Coach Stoops go after him. Go Cats!!

 

[Yahtzee43]

In the article, you state that Thomas is UL's " best recruiter. "

Do we know which players he was the lead on and signed for 2016 ? UL fans are saying he did not have 1 recruit signed in this class.

What is the true story on this ?

 

[ville 77]

I spent my morning writing about the almost unprecedented move Lamar Thomas will make from Louisville to Kentucky, why it's so damaging to the Cardinals, and the unfortunate (but, I believe, unintended) unfortunate racial stereotype that some of the 'spin' perpetuates.

STORY: An almost unprecedented move

Interesting story! I will agree that Stoops took a sledgehammer to the rivalry. In fact since your story Stoops tried to take it a step farther with Thomas attempting a late flip of a UL wr commit that failed. At this point most UL folks believe Thomas was leaving the UL staff in the near future anyway but you can be sure Petrino was not happy he took the uk job 2 days before signing day. I will give Stoops credit for coming out and admitting what we all knew that it was leaked to benefit UK. Many coaches might have dodged the question. In reality though Thomas was not able to pull any UL commits and UL lost nobody already committed.

With that said you are misinformed if you really believe Thomas was even one of UL's top 5 recruiters. Signing day was proof of this. UL signed 24 players and Thomas was lead recruiter on zero. In fact with Thomas our primary South Florida recruiter UL has struggled to sign Florida kids. Sure he was primary recruiter on Jackson but he had a edge. Jackson sent a tape to Petrino and it just happened he played at Thomas's HS so he knew the coach. He did do a good job here but not so well this year. If UL thought he was doing the job really well his pay would have been bumped to reflect his value. Instead he was near the bottom of the staff pay scale reflecting his relative lack of experience. You

I am sure UK is happy to bring him in and I believe UL will hire a replacement who may recruit as well or better.

Guess we can see how both do next year about this time.

 

[Beatle Bum]

Interesting story! I will agree that Stoops took a sledgehammer to the rivalry. In fact since your story Stoops tried to take it a step farther with Thomas attempting a late flip of a UL wr commit that failed. At this point most UL folks believe Thomas was leaving the UL staff in the near future anyway but you can be sure Petrino was not happy he took the uk job 2 days before signing day. I will give Stoops credit for coming out and admitting what we all knew that it was leaked to benefit UK. Many coaches might have dodged the question. In reality though Thomas was not able to pull any UL commits and UL lost nobody already committed.

With that said you are misinformed if you really believe Thomas was even one of UL's top 5 recruiters. Signing day was proof of this. UL signed 24 players and Thomas was lead recruiter on zero. In fact with Thomas our primary South Florida recruiter UL has struggled to sign Florida kids. Sure he was primary recruiter on Jackson but he had a edge. Jackson sent a tape to Petrino and it just happened he played at Thomas's HS so he knew the coach. He did do a good job here but not so well this year. If UL thought he was doing the job really well his pay would have been bumped to reflect his value. Instead he was near the bottom of the staff pay scale reflecting his relative lack of experience. You

I am sure UK is happy to bring him in and I believe UL will hire a replacement who may recruit as well or better.

Guess we can see how both do next year about this time.

Can you provide a link to the claim that Stoops had Thomas attempt to flip a UL WR commit? Thomas came to UK during a dead period at Thomas's request. I would like to see the source for your claim.

 

[SanAntonioCat_rivals376502]

Interesting story! I will agree that Stoops took a sledgehammer to the rivalry. In fact since your story Stoops tried to take it a step farther with Thomas attempting a late flip of a UL wr commit that failed. At this point most UL folks believe Thomas was leaving the UL staff in the near future anyway but you can be sure Petrino was not happy he took the uk job 2 days before signing day. I will give Stoops credit for coming out and admitting what we all knew that it was leaked to benefit UK. Many coaches might have dodged the question. In reality though Thomas was not able to pull any UL commits and UL lost nobody already committed.

With that said you are misinformed if you really believe Thomas was even one of UL's top 5 recruiters. Signing day was proof of this. UL signed 24 players and Thomas was lead recruiter on zero. In fact with Thomas our primary South Florida recruiter UL has struggled to sign Florida kids. Sure he was primary recruiter on Jackson but he had a edge. Jackson sent a tape to Petrino and it just happened he played at Thomas's HS so he knew the coach. He did do a good job here but not so well this year. If UL thought he was doing the job really well his pay would have been bumped to reflect his value. Instead he was near the bottom of the staff pay scale reflecting his relative lack of experience. You

I am sure UK is happy to bring him in and I believe UL will hire a replacement who may recruit as well or better.

Guess we can see how both do next year about this time.

Good luck.