Analyzing the Skills and Weaknesses of Issel

[Tayshaun4Three]

I didn’t get to watch Issel and wanted to better understand what type of player he was, as most who saw him tend to agree regarding his greatness. On a scale from 1-10, being as honest and critical as you can be, rank his effectiveness in each of these attributes:

Post Scoring - ?
Mid Range Shooting - ?
Long Range Shooting (modern 3pt range) - ?
Passing - ?
Speed - ?
Quickness - ?
Strength - ?
Offensive Rebounding - ?
Defensive Rebounding - ?
Clutchness - ?
Driving - ?
Shooting of the Dribble - ?
Shot Blocking - ?
Stealing - ?
Shooting Through Traffic / Contested - ?
Guarding the Perimeter - ?
Leaping - ?
Dunking - ?
Guarding the Post - ?

Anything else you’d like to write in. I know no one would be better for detailing his game than some of these folks who were eyewitnesses. Thanks!

 

[H00SIER-Cat]

When I saw the thread title, I thought it was a @smooth as butter post

 

[Tayshaun4Three]

I didn’t get to watch Issel and wanted to better understand what type of player he was, as most who saw him tend to agree regarding his greatness. On a scale from 1-10, being as honest and critical as you can be, rank his effectiveness in each of these attributes:

Post Scoring - ?
Mid Range Shooting - ?
Long Range Shooting (modern 3pt range) - ?
Passing - ?
Speed - ?
Quickness - ?
Strength - ?
Offensive Rebounding - ?
Defensive Rebounding - ?
Clutchness - ?
Driving - ?
Shooting of the Dribble - ?
Shot Blocking - ?
Stealing - ?
Shooting Through Traffic / Contested - ?
Guarding the Perimeter - ?
Leaping - ?
Dunking - ?
Guarding the Post - ?

Anything else you’d like to write in. I know no one would be better for detailing his game than some of these folks who were eyewitnesses. Thanks!

Here’s my complete guess based on the small bit of knowledge I have:

Post Scoring - 10
Mid Range Shooting - 7
Long Range Shooting (modern 3pt range) - 5
Passing - 6
Speed - 6
Quickness - 6
Strength - 7
Offensive Rebounding - 10
Defensive Rebounding - 9
Clutchness - 7
Driving - 7
Shooting of the Dribble - 5
Shot Blocking - 6
Stealing - 6
Shooting Through Traffic / Contested - 10
Guarding the Perimeter - 5
Leaping - 6
Dunking - 6
Guarding the Post - 7

 

[Whoppercat]

Anything else you’d like to write in.

Yes. I’d like to add this is the dumbest thread I’ve seen in a long time.

 

[blw]

I didn’t get to watch Issel and wanted to better understand what type of player he was, as most who saw him tend to agree regarding his greatness. On a scale from 1-10, being as honest and critical as you can be, rank his effectiveness in each of these attributes:

Post Scoring - ?
Mid Range Shooting - ?
Long Range Shooting (modern 3pt range) - ?
Passing - ?
Speed - ?
Quickness - ?
Strength - ?
Offensive Rebounding - ?
Defensive Rebounding - ?
Clutchness - ?
Driving - ?
Shooting of the Dribble - ?
Shot Blocking - ?
Stealing - ?
Shooting Through Traffic / Contested - ?
Guarding the Perimeter - ?
Leaping - ?
Dunking - ?
Guarding the Post - ?

Anything else you’d like to write in. I know no one would be better for detailing his game than some of these folks who were eyewitnesses. Thanks!

Are you trying to create a video game version of Issel?

 

[ala_kat2]

This has been discussed often here. Once again, I will say that Dan Issel is UK’s greatest player since 1960. I didn’t see some if the real old timers in the 40’s, 50’s.

 

[wildcatdon]

I didn’t get to watch Issel and wanted to better understand what type of player he was, as most who saw him tend to agree regarding his greatness. On a scale from 1-10, being as honest and critical as you can be, rank his effectiveness in each of these attributes:

Post Scoring - ?
Mid Range Shooting - ?
Long Range Shooting (modern 3pt range) - ?
Passing - ?
Speed - ?
Quickness - ?
Strength - ?
Offensive Rebounding - ?
Defensive Rebounding - ?
Clutchness - ?
Driving - ?
Shooting of the Dribble - ?
Shot Blocking - ?
Stealing - ?
Shooting Through Traffic / Contested - ?
Guarding the Perimeter - ?
Leaping - ?
Dunking - ?
Guarding the Post - ?

Anything else you’d like to write in. I know no one would be better for detailing his game than some of these folks who were eyewitnesses. Thanks!

Play attention to the thousands of other threads on the same topic.

 

[anon1751545683]

There was a lot of argument that Issel should have been included in the top 50 of NBA when it was announced. No mention of him when they did the top 75.

Recency bias?

Doesn’t matter, big Dan was a great one.

Great ones are great in any era.

 

[steelman100]

Karem said he was the hardest he ever guarded

 

[Tayshaun4Three]

Are you trying to create a video game version of Issel?

Yes. The point of the post was to assess his basic skills because I want to accurately create Dan Issel. I wasn’t aware there were other posts/threads where people are rating Issel’s ability in these specific areas but based on the hostility toward my question it appears I have ruffled feathers lol. Definitely didn’t see that coming

 

[FtWorthCat]

It's a damn shame John Y Brown sold out the Colonels. They should have gone to the NBA. With Issel, Gilmore and Dampier they had a competitive team ready to make the jump.

 

[blw]

Yes. The point of the post was to assess his basic skills because I want to accurately create Dan Issel. I wasn’t aware there were other posts/threads where people are rating Issel’s ability in these specific areas but based on the hostility toward my question it appears I have ruffled feathers lol. Definitely didn’t see that coming

Is this NBA2K?

I think people are just disconnected between your thread title and the reason behind your subject matter.

 

[Randy Bob]

Issel is one of the greats not sure if he is the greatest because there have been so many great players that has come through Ky.

 

[Anon1636470744]

Issel is the only answer and probably always will be . He is the all time leading scorer and rebounder. He was basically unstoppable in college and went to on to be one of the greatest players to ever play in the ABA and NBA. I'm pretty sure he's in the top 15 in all time scorers when you combine his ABA/NBA Stats.

 

[NociHTTP]

Are you trying to create a video game version of Issel?

Let's get one going for Wheeler.

 

[jeffky]

I didn’t get to watch Issel and wanted to better understand what type of player he was, as most who saw him tend to agree regarding his greatness. On a scale from 1-10, being as honest and critical as you can be, rank his effectiveness in each of these attributes:

Post Scoring - ?
Mid Range Shooting - ?
Long Range Shooting (modern 3pt range) - ?
Passing - ?
Speed - ?
Quickness - ?
Strength - ?
Offensive Rebounding - ?
Defensive Rebounding - ?
Clutchness - ?
Driving - ?
Shooting of the Dribble - ?
Shot Blocking - ?
Stealing - ?
Shooting Through Traffic / Contested - ?
Guarding the Perimeter - ?
Leaping - ?
Dunking - ?
Guarding the Post - ?

Anything else you’d like to write in. I know no one would be better for detailing his game than some of these folks who were eyewitnesses. Thanks!

Enjoy check out the pistol too

Pistol Pete Maravich scores 64 against Kentucky and Dan Issel [HD] / 1avardac

 

[mrhotdice]

Here’s my complete guess based on the small bit of knowledge I have:

Post Scoring - 10
Mid Range Shooting - 7
Long Range Shooting (modern 3pt range) - 5
Passing - 6
Speed - 6
Quickness - 6
Strength - 7
Offensive Rebounding - 10
Defensive Rebounding - 9
Clutchness - 7
Driving - 7
Shooting of the Dribble - 5
Shot Blocking - 6
Stealing - 6
Shooting Through Traffic / Contested - 10
Guarding the Perimeter - 5
Leaping - 6
Dunking - 6
Guarding the Post - 7

Kenny Walker was probably as good in college as any player who played at Kentucky. When Issel went to the ABA that hurt his reputation but not in Kentucky. The same could be said for Artis Gilmore.

 

[Elliott Tim]

When I saw the thread title, I thought it was a @smooth as butter post

Then you discovered it was Margarinel.

 

[TeoJ]

I didn’t get to watch Issel and wanted to better understand what type of player he was, as most who saw him tend to agree regarding his greatness. On a scale from 1-10, being as honest and critical as you can be, rank his effectiveness in each of these attributes:

Post Scoring - ?
Mid Range Shooting - ?
Long Range Shooting (modern 3pt range) - ?
Passing - ?
Speed - ?
Quickness - ?
Strength - ?
Offensive Rebounding - ?
Defensive Rebounding - ?
Clutchness - ?
Driving - ?
Shooting of the Dribble - ?
Shot Blocking - ?
Stealing - ?
Shooting Through Traffic / Contested - ?
Guarding the Perimeter - ?
Leaping - ?
Dunking - ?
Guarding the Post - ?

Anything else you’d like to write in. I know no one would be better for detailing his game than some of these folks who were eyewitnesses. Thanks!

No head faked before shot?

 

[Rockford]

Dunking - ?

Not allowed allowed when he played at UK

Head Fake… 12 out of 10

 

[4Frusciante#]

Comparing the skills of somebody like Issel to current players means nothing because Issel, and other bigs of that era, would have a different skill set if they came along today. Is it really surprising that Issel didn't shoot well from 24 feet when it was worth 2 points and no coach would let any players shoot from that range for any reason but beating the shot clock? I'm sure he didn't waste his practice time shooting shots he wasn't allowed to shoot in games.

 

[Tayshaun4Three]

Comparing the skills of somebody like Issel to current players means nothing because Issel, and other bigs of that era, would have a different skill set if they came along today. Is it really surprising that Issel didn't shoot well from 24 feet when it was worth 2 points and no coach would let any players shoot from that range for any reason but beating the shot clock? I'm sure he didn't waste his practice time shooting shots he wasn't allowed to shoot in games.

Wah Wah Jones would occasionally shoot from modern three point range. Ralph Beard did at a pretty effective rate as well (guard, but still). Rupp was open to stretching the floor out with some of his guys, even bigs. And that was without a shot clock.

The point is I want to understand what his game was like. How he actually played in college. I’ve watched the second half vs LSU and Pistol Pete.

 

[4Frusciante#]

Wah Wah Jones would occasionally shoot from modern three point range. Ralph Beard did at a pretty effective rate as well (guard, but still). Rupp was open to stretching the floor out with some of his guys, even bigs.

Does not refute my point. A guy that hits 42% from 3 point range is productive; shooting 42% from 2 point range is not so productive. And Rupp did not let Issel or any other big shoot from 24 feet, nor did any other coach.

 

[Tayshaun4Three]

Does not refute my point. A guy that hits 42% from 3 point range is productive; shooting 42% from 2 point range is not so productive. And Rupp did not let Issel or any other big shoot from 24 feet, nor did any other coach.

I’m baffled. I’m not trying to disparage him at all. I’m just trying to understand how he played. Not trying to make a point about whether he should or should not shoot threes. If he did, that would help to know. If he didn’t that’s completely ok. How did he score? How did he defend? Things of that sort…

 

[catsfanbgky]

Issel is the only answer and probably always will be . He is the all time leading scorer and rebounder. He was basically unstoppable in college and went to on to be one of the greatest players to ever play in the ABA and NBA. I'm pretty sure he's in the top 15 in all time scorers when you combine his ABA/NBA Stats.

I think this was just a Dan Issel assessment thread. Mainly configured by people who never watched him play. Not greatest player for UK, that is a totally different thread.

Serious question for those on Issel, if he didn't play for UK, would you still hold such a high opinion of his game ? I have never watched him play, I could not comment on him, nor would I pretend to know.

 

[Tayshaun4Three]

I think this was just a Dan Issel assessment thread. Mainly configured by people who never watched him play.

Exactly. Those of us who didn’t watch him should be able to rely on those who did to better understand what made him great. That’s the whole point lol.

 

[4Frusciante#]

I’m baffled. I’m not trying to disparage him at all. I’m just trying to understand how he played. Not trying to make a point about whether he should or should not shoot threes. If he did, that would help to know. If he didn’t that’s completely ok. How did he score? How did he defend? Things of that sort…

Okay, sorry. He was very good at scoring from mid-range and inside with a pretty shot. He was a strong rebounder and decent defender though not a shot blocker, just very strong and hard to move out of position. He was not a good 3 point shooter as the shot was only adopted towards the end of his career and he'd never shot them before. If you're wondering if he game he actually had then would make him a superstar today I would say no(but he'd still be a star), but he'd have a different skill set so it doesn't really matter. Basketball is a fairly young game and each generation learns from the previous ones and has evolved since Big Dan's playing days, an evolution that has not stopped. The ideas of what big men can do has also changed since then.

ps: I never thought you were disparaging Issel. I guess I'm still a bit peeved at the guy who cited Issel's NBA 3 point shooting percentage and used that to say, and was serious, that Issel would be a backup to Amari Williams on this team. Of course I put that guy on ignore since, when I hear an opinion that stupid, I don't to hear any more of that person's takes. I'm sure if that guy hasn't been suspended he'll be on here to say how crappy a player Issel was...

 

[Tayshaun4Three]

Okay, sorry. He was very good at scoring from mid-range and inside with a pretty shot. He was a strong rebounder and decent defender though not a shot blocker, just very strong and hard to move out of position. He was not a good 3 point shooter as the shot was only adopted towards the end of his career and he'd never shot them before. If you're wondering if he game he actually had then would make him a superstar today I would say no(but he'd still be a star), but he'd have a different skill set so it doesn't really matter. Basketball is a fairly young game and each generation learns from the previous ones and has evolved since Big Dan's playing days, an evolution that has not stopped. The ideas of what big men can do has also changed since then.

ps: I never thought you were disparaging Issel. I guess I'm still a bit peeved at the guy who cited Issel's NBA 3 point shooting percentage and used that to say, and was serious, that Issel would be a backup to Amari Williams on this team. Of course I put that guy on ignore since, when I hear an opinion that stupid, I don't to hear any more of that person's takes. I'm sure if that guy hasn't been suspended he'll be on here to say how crappy a player Issel was...

Thanks for the insight. Good evaluation!

 

[UKWildcats1987]

Issel, statistically, by far best UK player ever.

As far as winning national titles and making final fours, he has zilch there.

UK fans have repeatedly said its about titles and final fours in the modern era so I believe this should be consistently judged for all eras.

 

[Anon1636470744]

I think this was just a Dan Issel assessment thread. Mainly configured by people who never watched him play. Not greatest player for UK, that is a totally different thread.

Serious question for those on Issel, if he didn't play for UK, would you still hold such a high opinion of his game ? I have never watched him play, I could not comment on him, nor would I pretend to know.

He averaged 32 points a game his senior year. He would have done that at any school. He was that good. As I said I he went on to finish in the top 15
in scoring in the ABA/NBA so yes my opinion would be the same. Kareem said he was one of the hardest players for him to guard if that carries any weight with you.

 

[bnewt]

Issel was a basketball player. He could score, rebound and was a team player. He played for a coach that knew the game and how to get the maximum from his players. He demanded excellence. He was the leader. Issel along with Pratt were a joy to watch.

 

[pallen1414]

Issel averaged almost 34 ppg. I saw him live his senior year. Best ever

 

[jeffky]

Wah Wah Jones would occasionally shoot from modern three point range. Ralph Beard did at a pretty effective rate as well (guard, but still). Rupp was open to stretching the floor out with some of his guys, even bigs. And that was without a shot clock.

The point is I want to understand what his game was like. How he actually played in college. I’ve watched the second half vs LSU and Pistol Pete.

Johnny cox would too

 

[4Frusciante#]

Johnny cox would too

Yes, we could also add Jerry West and Pistol Pete to the guys that would take shots from that range. I never meant that nobody back then could hit from that range or that none did shoot from that range, just that it was only a very select group of players that could take that shot without going to the bench, and it included no big men. Like the story I heard recently about Bird's trash talking...he took a 30 footer and air balled it. When the defender told him it was a bad shot Bird told the guy that the difference between Bird and him was that Larry was going to stay on the floor and the other guy wouldn't get off the bench for a month if he even attempted that shot.

 

[Soupbean]

There was a lot of argument that Issel should have been included in the top 50 of NBA when it was announced. No mention of him when they did the top 75.

Recency bias?

Doesn’t matter, big Dan was a great one.

Great ones are great in any era.

The guy played center at 6-8, 6-9 against some of the biggest and best to ever play (Jabbar, Moses Malone and others) and averaged 25 and 10 for most of it.

He was just an efficient machine, that knew how to play. Not super athletic but quick and polished his moves relentless.

 

[Blueisbest]

It's a damn shame John Y Brown sold out the Colonels. They should have gone to the NBA. With Issel, Gilmore and Dampier they had a competitive team ready to make the jump.

I think by the time the ABA merged with the NBA, Issel was a Nugget and, I think Gilmore was gone too.

 

[steelman100]

It's a damn shame John Y Brown sold out the Colonels. They should have gone to the NBA. With Issel, Gilmore and Dampier they had a competitive team ready to make the jump.

Who was the power forward. Front line was great. Not sure how Dampier would have fared in the NBA

 

[4Frusciante#]

Who was the power forward. Front line was great. Not sure how Dampier would have fared in the NBA

You need to darken your font in the preferences but I was just able to make it out. With the Colonels Issel played the power forward while Artis Gilmore played center. With the Nuggets I'm fairly certain Issel played center.

 

[Dr.LutherSan]

There was a lot of argument that Issel should have been included in the top 50 of NBA when it was announced. No mention of him when they did the top 75.

Recency bias?

Doesn’t matter, big Dan was a great one.

Great ones are great in any era.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but those lists were meant more towards the NBA careers. His NBA resume was pretty light for that list.

 

[4Frusciante#]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but those lists were meant more towards the NBA careers. His NBA resume was pretty light for that list.

I think you are right; if they'd taken the ABA into consideration Issel easily makes the list.