Apologies if already well discussed on the Rock. /s
B1G to scrap divisions?
- Thread starter phatcat_rivals223240
- Start date
I understand the motivation, but being honest, we definitely benefit from being in the West. It will really reduce our chances of going back to Indy anytime soon if they do away with the divisions as they are now.
Change is bad...very, very bad.
Seriously, this is not good for the Big Ten. First, a playoff makes sense between champions or in case of a tie; not so much between a winner and an also ran. The nonsensical nature of a playoff between 1st and 2nd place finishers is highlighted by the liklihood of OSU and UM playing in the playoff game most years. The playoff, for the championship, would render the traditional season-ending battle between the teams pointless. It would only have to be replayed a week later for all the marbles. I also do not see any western conference teams voting for this - and think many eastern conference teams will not like it either.
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Oh Boy... That means King Fitzy might not have had any appearances in the B1GC if this was in place.... In 2018, Mich would have gone against OSU. And in '20 IU could have gone instead (both 6-1) but I think IU lost to OSU...
With this new format, you have to win to go to Indy. Thats a tough pecking order to overcome and no more backdoors. Can't lose to Purdue or Minnesota and sneak in. The former B1G East just got more powerful as now PSU, MSU, UM, OSU, & UM can be one loss and still keep the hammer down.
I assume Conf record + Overall record sends you to Indy. Does anybody see King Fitzy engineering a one-loss season and running the table in the B1G anytime soon? LOL.
There is no scenario where this team ever plays a game in Indianapolis again. Sorry.
With this new format, you have to win to go to Indy. Thats a tough pecking order to overcome and no more backdoors. Can't lose to Purdue or Minnesota and sneak in. The former B1G East just got more powerful as now PSU, MSU, UM, OSU, & UM can be one loss and still keep the hammer down.
I assume Conf record + Overall record sends you to Indy. Does anybody see King Fitzy engineering a one-loss season and running the table in the B1G anytime soon? LOL.
There is no scenario where this team ever plays a game in Indianapolis again. Sorry.
Except, Michigan has been basically on par with us for the last 15 years, until last year. Ped State and MSU (and Wisconsin, I suppose) have as much/more claim to being distant 2nd, behind OSU, as Michigan.
I never let an opportunity pass to hate on Mich.
If they do away with divisions, wouldn't they also do away with Indy, or have a playoff?
No, Michigan has owned us. Michigan has won 7 straight.
We have only beaten them once since the turn of the century (2000 was, in fact, the last year of the 20th century that began 1901).
Wisconsin is easily 2nd.
Wisconsin is 153-55 over that frame, Penn State 138-65 and Michigan State 131-72.
This is such a bad idea. To me, the regular conference season is the heart of college football, with being the best of a regular set of teams seeding rivalries and giving individual games meaning. With divisions, a team competes annually with the same six teams for the first rung of a championship ladder, and the games against those six carry extra significance. Going to a top 2 from a 14 team pool, eliminating the first rung championship and choosing the two from teams possibly playing significantly different schedules is Just other move toward making the BCS (or whatever playoff ESPN contrives) the main driver of college football scheduling.
We need to go back to Legends and Leaders with protected crossovers over Thanksgiving.
Or, uh, the Fleck and the Dantonio divisions.
The new standard/floor/ceiling for the 'Cats must be six wins a year and a bowl game. We don't have the firepower or will to get to the top of the B1G and stay like 7 other teams do (OSU, UM, MSU, PSU, IA, UNB, UW)
We are not (or every will be) that school. I accept that we are a WLAX, WFH, and WSB school.
We are not (or every will be) that school. I accept that we are a WLAX, WFH, and WSB school.
Not true -- there were no hail mary's, and illegal procedure was called on the fg
Twice actually. That second game, we won, except the refs gave the game to Michigan. Literally set up a play that Michigan couldn't complete without fouling, which they did, and no call.
accurate. I was speaking about overall record, rankings, bowl wins, where we have had similar success from 2008-20. But you are absolutely correct - whether they slithered out of the game with a close win (often) or clobbered us (also often), we do not beat them. I believe I saw somewhere that, since 95, we have a .500 record, cumulatively, against the rest of the B1G but a stupidly poor record against Mich/OSU/PSU. OSU, I get it, nobody has a good record against them (Purdue?) but our 0-7 streak v Mich coincides with a) some otherwise decent success for us and b) probably their worst stretch of football since the 50s/early 60s. They average 4 B1G wins/7 overall wins per year 2008-20, same as us. We won 5 bowls, they won 2. We finished ranked 5 times, they did 6. Imagine if we had actually beaten them a couple of times during that period.
You sound absolutely giddy at this prospect. Are you really an NU fan? Just asking.
Yeah I hate NU football so much that my avatar is NU winning the BCS against Texas and I ensured my honeymoon came through Chicago so we could come to fan appreciation day. Or all the times I made my way back to Ryan Field including on Active Duty. Or the 12ft purple wall adorned with every ticket and laser etched NU logo on it in my $50K basement remodel. Or being a season-ticket holder, going to Bowl games, driving to Indy in '18 &' 20 and talking my neighbor's son into walking on. Plus post-grad.
Sure. Can't stand the 'Cats...
Glad to hear it, but as someone who lived through the Dark Ages, why the sarcasm toward Fitzgerald, and do you think killing the divisions would really be good for NU?
Saw this on another site. I like the 5+4+4 proposal in this video at 4:35-7:30. He goes through it step-by-step.
This is the only proposal I've seen achieve both of the following:
- Protect every pre-1990 rivalry trophy game
- No team protects more than 2 of Ohio St/Michigan/Penn St/Wisconsin so no one's at a huge disadvantage
This is the only proposal I've seen achieve both of the following:
- Protect every pre-1990 rivalry trophy game
- No team protects more than 2 of Ohio St/Michigan/Penn St/Wisconsin so no one's at a huge disadvantage
Thanks for sharing. Honestly, I often laugh when fan nerds try to engineer their own perfect scenarios, as if the schools themselves don't get a say in how they participate, but this one was pretty solid and thoughtful.
A dissolution of divisions definitely does not help NU from one year to another; I'd say it great reduces Fitz's chances of ever bringing us a Big Ten championship (...based on 15 years of evidence). It will be interesting how this all shakes out.
We're at a really dangerous, weird, critical time in the evolution of college football. In my opinion, CFB leaders need to lean into what is DIFFERENT between CFB and the NFL. NIL does the opposite. I'm not sure how divisions and playoffs shake out in that respect.
How many protected games could we see?
It could be less, but I would suggest up to five, with Maryland and Rutgers excepted.
#B1G East breakdown
OSU - MI, PSU, ILL, IU & PUR
MI - OSU, MSU, PSU, MN & NW
MSU - MI, PSU. NW, IU & NE
PSU - OSU, MI, MD, MSU & MN
IU - PUR, OSU, ILL, MSU & RU
Only 2 each for newest based on limited @B1Gfootball history
MD - PSU & RU
RU - MD & IU
#B1G West breakdown
ILL - NW, OSU, PUR, IU & IA
#Hawkeyes - MN, NE, WI, ILL & NW
MN - WI, IA, MI, PSU, NE
#Huskers - IA, MN, WI, PUR & MSU
NW - ILL, MSU, IA, MI & WI
Purdue - IU, ILL, OSU, NE & WI
WI - MN, IA, NE, NW & PUR
Five protected games
& 3-4 more B1G gms
One suggestion I already received would flip it Iowa-Purdue and Nebraska-Northwestern in what I originally had.
It could be less, but I would suggest up to five, with Maryland and Rutgers excepted.
#B1G East breakdown
OSU - MI, PSU, ILL, IU & PUR
MI - OSU, MSU, PSU, MN & NW
MSU - MI, PSU. NW, IU & NE
PSU - OSU, MI, MD, MSU & MN
IU - PUR, OSU, ILL, MSU & RU
Only 2 each for newest based on limited @B1Gfootball history
MD - PSU & RU
RU - MD & IU
#B1G West breakdown
ILL - NW, OSU, PUR, IU & IA
#Hawkeyes - MN, NE, WI, ILL & NW
MN - WI, IA, MI, PSU, NE
#Huskers - IA, MN, WI, PUR & MSU
NW - ILL, MSU, IA, MI & WI
Purdue - IU, ILL, OSU, NE & WI
WI - MN, IA, NE, NW & PUR
Five protected games
& 3-4 more B1G gms
One suggestion I already received would flip it Iowa-Purdue and Nebraska-Northwestern in what I originally had.
Yeah, this is Michigan's first B1G title since 2003 or 2004 (can't remember which one) and right away they're supposed to be a constant contender. And let's be honest, the only reason they won last year was because of that putrid OSU defense which resulted in the entire OSU defensive staff getting fired (minus Larry Johnson). Wanna bet that OSU curb-stomps Michigan this year if they even field an average defense as their offense is being projected to be the best in the country
If they get rid of divisions we come out as a primary loser, as does practically any school in the West. OSU, PSU, and Michigan will vie for the top two spots virtually every year for a long time. Michigan St might be in the mix as well now. As far as we are concerned this needs to be shot down in grand fashion. Think about it, every team sans Michigan that I just named are expansion teams. The old school Western Conference teams will be left out of any title shot. If that occurs, I will lose even more interest in CFB, as it is just about the $$$$ anymore. NU being in a rebuilding mode, will make it even less fun for probably the next 2-3 seasons.
I agree with most of what you said, except for the last sentence.
On September 1, 1995, there was no scenario where this team ever wins a Big Ten title in the forseeable future.
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No, Older than dirt would be if he could remember the time that the BIG had less than 10 teams which was most recently between when Uof C left the conference (1939 for FB and 1946 overall) and MSU joined(1949)
You got to figure that they would still want a championship game as it means a lot of money
I recognize that eliminating divisions will make it harder for Northwestern and most other teams in the Big Ten to make the championship game - and Ohio State would make it pretty much every year - but on the other hand, it seems to me more fair. If there's two one-loss teams in a division, and the best team in the other division has 3 losses - how it is fair that the 3-loss team gets to go to the championship over the 1-loss team?
That being said, I'm agnostic about keeping a division or not. I just think there should be at least some limit, like for example, keep divisions but you only go to the championship if... [input qualifier here].
That being said, I'm agnostic about keeping a division or not. I just think there should be at least some limit, like for example, keep divisions but you only go to the championship if... [input qualifier here].
But what about schedule inequities? 14 team league and you play nine games. Schedule advantage could definitely be a factor. In addition, do you want to see Michigan-Ohio State play one week and then have a rematch the next for the Big Ten championship? How is that fair to the winner of the first game?
I can help. Schedule a 12 game conference schedule and skip playing Duke and Kutztown State.
So - picture OSU and Mich undeafeated and ranked 2-3 (I hate this scenario). they play last game of the year and one of them loses (let's say the #2 team). But they are still 1-2 in B1G so they play in the CCG and the other one wins. and They both have one loss and end up in the top 4 and play each other again in the playoffs. At last - a TRUE WINNER!
Sure, nothing wrong with CCG's or playoffs. /s
I witnessed the Dark Ages myself and also saw the '94 Cats become the '95 Cats. Fitz is not a "next-level" coach and here are my legitimate concerns with him:
-He is paid in the Top 12 of P5 Coaches. He doesn't deliver Top 12 results (and frankly if the school is the hindrance for competing why pay him like that if we can't win?)
-He is generally out-coached and rarely makes adjustments (4th down, 4th and goal, etc.)
-He squanders or under-develops talent. How do we never have a reliable kicker? Why do we field 5'9" receivers? Why are Seniors playing late in blow-out wins/losses?
-He isn't accountable (OC/DC decisions or bad season-Not my fault/Good season-I need an extension or I'm dancing with NFL teams).
He is an alum and a motivator but both of those don't matter when in the end he is a .500 coach in the B1G. Every good or bad player he puts on the field is a result of his actions. Therefore, he gets the credit and the blame. His poor decisions squander games/seasons and playing careers.
I still love Northwestern U and my dream is to see them be a feared contender every year. I believe this is possible and most of my posts are through that lens.
I think 5 protected games, rotating in 4 of the other 8 teams every other year is the correct setup (for 9 total conference games). That still preserves a somewhat division-like schedule keeping a lot of the rivalries that have built up over time, but allows you to have more balanced scheduling and then can do the conference title on a 1 vs 2 basis which it seems like the East division constituents want to happen.
People had been talking 3 protected games, rotating the other 5 of 10 in alternating years, but that was when we were going to do the "Alliance" thing with games vs Pac12 and ACC each year and conference schedule down to 8 games. With 9 games, the 5 protected + 4 alternating is a much better solution bc the 3 protected games creates tough decisions on which rivalries make the cut and also results in unbalanced distributions - eg OSU would prob play Mich and PSU every year.
PS I think your mapping is pretty good, though for NU I think we'd end up keeping Purdue (previously was a protected matchup) instead of Michigan every year. So it would be IL, WI, Purdue, MSU, and probably Iowa (maybe Nebraska swaps in for one of those as that's become a good matchup over the years since Nebby joined).