With the poor showing at the NBA combine it may be ripe for Baldwin to come to NU and become the stud everyone thought he would be and repair his fallen stock and for Collins to have a horse(s) who could do so. Just a thought but do not see it as out of the realm of possibility
Baldwin and Collins
- Thread starter catcrazy
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Unfortunately the guys not that good and was tremendously over-hyped. He’s another 6-9” outside shooter who plays soft and doesn’t have the body or strength for BigTen basketball. Imagine him covering Cofi Coburn.
This excerpt from a draft prospects article on si.com this morning (seems less and less likely that PBJ will be returning to college):
Baldwin is still working his way back into shape after two years of checkered health, and there’s a glass-half-full scenario here where he stays healthy, regains confidence in his body, can progress steadily and ultimately becomes a valuable contributor. You can’t throw the poor testing totally out the window, and I do worry about him a bit defensively, but players with his skill level and frame don’t come around often. There’s still significant risk attached here if his run of poor luck continues, but at a certain point in the draft, Baldwin becomes a serious value proposition. Writing him off completely would be a mistake, and I have a hard time thinking a team won’t roll the dice somewhere in the first round.
Patrick Baldwin Jr., F, Milwaukee | Freshman
After a year in college where pretty much nothing went right for him, Baldwin remains pretty polarizing around the NBA. There’s a segment of scouts who seem to be entirely out on him, and the fact he didn’t perform well in athletic testing threw more fuel on that fire. But after watching Baldwin’s pro day and seeing him work out in private earlier this month, I’ve come away feeling like there should be much more room for optimism. Ultimately, I think he moved the needle in a positive way at the combine, measuring at 6' 10.25" in shoes with a 9' 2.5" standing reach, showcasing his elite shooting chops and ball skills at that size at his pro day, and reminding teams in that setting why he was once so highly regarded.Baldwin is still working his way back into shape after two years of checkered health, and there’s a glass-half-full scenario here where he stays healthy, regains confidence in his body, can progress steadily and ultimately becomes a valuable contributor. You can’t throw the poor testing totally out the window, and I do worry about him a bit defensively, but players with his skill level and frame don’t come around often. There’s still significant risk attached here if his run of poor luck continues, but at a certain point in the draft, Baldwin becomes a serious value proposition. Writing him off completely would be a mistake, and I have a hard time thinking a team won’t roll the dice somewhere in the first round.
I think the narrative on PBJ is shifting again. Last week he was overrated because of the combine testing, now it seems like he's being viewed as a sleeper because he's such a good shooter. He could be great for a team picking in the 20s because he'd be joining a contending team and wouldn't have pressure to be the man right away. He could come off the bench, make 3s, and get some breathing room to develop the rest of his game. Clearly he has some limitations but he's also 19 years old. I was thinking of him as similar to Michael Porter Jr., and then I watched a short interview with PBJ yesterday where he compared himself to Porter. Porter's also struggled with injuries, but by age 22 he was averaging 19 ppg and shooting 45% from 3. PBJ could have that sort of trajectory.
If u have the skills (in particular, shooting touch) - strength is overrated, esp if u got some length.
Look at Coble, a young Shurna or Chet Homgren.
Durant couldn't even do a single bench press in the combine and he has ended up having a pretty good NBA career to say the least.
Curry was also a skinny kid when he entered the league and has built his body up over the years (easier to gain muscle than it is to learn to be a consistently great shooter)
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True to some degree, but you have to be able to defend your position. Positional size, quickness, length, toughness can help compensate, but if you're 6'9" with slow hands and slow feet, you better be strong because you're defending the post.
Strength definitely comes into play regarding durability.
You can even have hands and feet that aren't slow and if you are 6'10 230 lbs, you cannot guard a guy who is 7'0 280 lbs. He will just lean on you and leverage his way to whatever spot on the court he wishes to occupy. Refs never call that on the offensive player.
Ask Pete Nance. (but don't ask Chris Collins)
^ Of course, but as we all saw - players like Coble and Shurna or even Juice (who was height/length-challenged) brought more to the game than their deficiencies on D (likewise, players like Bird and today, Luka); of course, can't be deficiency in all areas (if lacking length, need some quickness, etc.).
Lumpkin was undersized (length and mass) as a PF in the B1G, and yet somehow, made that work.
Swop was a spright 210 lbs also playing the PF position, but he managed to bang with big boys and grab his fair share of rebounds.
Maybe the injuries have slowed down PBJ's physical development, but there's plenty of time for him to fill out (or at least be wirey strong).
Lumpkin was undersized (length and mass) as a PF in the B1G, and yet somehow, made that work.
Swop was a spright 210 lbs also playing the PF position, but he managed to bang with big boys and grab his fair share of rebounds.
Maybe the injuries have slowed down PBJ's physical development, but there's plenty of time for him to fill out (or at least be wirey strong).
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There aren't many 7'0" 280 guys in the NBA that play major minutes these days. Quickness and positional versatility and ability to flex in and out of help defense effectively are more important than size. For PBJ's draft stock, I'd be much more worried about (i) his ability to make 3's consistently in game conditions given his shooting stats at UWM; and (ii) his lateral quickness to defend wings in the NBA game. He would probably a stretch 3/4 type in the NBA although with all the switching it's more important that can defend multiple different positions acceptably than him being able to defend a traditional 5 man-to-man. Even the great 5's in the league (Giannis, Jokic, Embiid) don't play that much back to the basket post ball anymore (though arguably someone like Embiid maybe should do more) - they like to face up and attack the basket, and in the case of Giannis frequently they do try to plow through defenders but there your goal is more to move your feet and effectively take a charge than it is to be strong enough to stop his momentum outright. Alex Caruso was potentially the most effective defender of all the guys the Bulls tried against Giannis, and he was giving up way more size than PBJ would be.
To your point, in their last playoff series, the Celtics were guarding Giannis with Marcus Smart (point guard), which also speaks to what an incredible defender Smart is.
I don't really watch the NBA with great interest, although I have seen all those guys play. I think there is a disconnect between what works in college and what works in the NBA. So "go big and pound the ball inside" can work night after night in college, but not be nearly as successful in the NBA anymore, where the athleticism and skill are significantly better.
That doesn't mean college coaches should try to play an NBA style with inferior athletes. If you are a top program, then sure, because your players are physically equipped to do it.
That doesn't mean college coaches should try to play an NBA style with inferior athletes. If you are a top program, then sure, because your players are physically equipped to do it.
