Best thing about NFL combine is the truth on 40 times

JHB4UK

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Here are the elite of the elite college football running backs with actual unbiased clocks as they run the 40:

Only 5 under 4.5, Heisman winner at 4.52. And these are guys who have had top shelf college training for 3 & 4 years. Just another reason to take high school 17 year olds (and their parents and/or HS coaches) claiming they run 4.4 or 4.3 with a gigantic grain of salt.
 

Michigan Fan

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Derrick Henry if he proves he can be a natural pass catcher in Indy...Alabama Pro Day and individual workouts made some $$$$....his official 40 was 4.54 @ 6-3 247 pounds with a 37 inch vertical...Elliot now official time was 4.47 according to NFL.com.
 

dcspurlock

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Marshall can fly! Holy moly that's blazing! And Henry carrying that load at 4.5? No wonder it takes a few to bring him down. He has wheels for a dude his size. Sherman tank!
 

jauk11

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They get slower in college...

Probably distracted thinking about their Solid State Physics exam coming up------or their basketweaving III class if they are at UL-------or their rape trial if they are at TU. Probably still thinking about those things for a couple of weeks after graduation------or leaving early.

Good thread though, a little surprising that Drake didn't get more carries-------I wonder how fast Harris really is going to be at Bama------no, not that one, the one that is the 3rd overall commit in the 17 class. Of course he is also bigger, 6' 2" and 222#. Amazing thing in an article the other day, Bama will have NINETEEN five stars available next year, and probably more 6.0s, like the Heisman winner.

I was on the same team as possibly the 2nd fastest track guy in the world at the time, finished second in the 100 yard dash that set the world record at 9.3 seconds at 9.4. Long time ago. I had never been on a track in my life, my small high school didn't have one, we had football in the fall, basketball in the winter, and football spring practice in the spring. I saw this guy, only 5' 9" at best, float for 100 yards touching the ground about every five yards and switched to the 440, wise choice, made the Ft Bliss track team there------AND avoided being completely embarrassed.
 

Deeeefense

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I think the 40 time is an over rated stat. Players that have ran track before and are taught how to come out of the starting blocks can turn in times 1-2 tenths better than players with no track experience. Also how many times does a player run in a straight line for 40 yards in a football game? what difference does wearing all that equipment make? and also how much does the 40 time vary after playing several downs verses coming out fresh? (durability). At best it's a ball park stat to tell you if they have enough speed to be considered for a position.
 
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jauk11

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I think the 40 time is an over rated stat. Players that have ran track before and are taught how to come out of the starting blocks can turn in times 1-2 tenths better than players with no track experience. Also how many times does a player run in a straight line for 40 yards in a football game? what difference does wearing all that equipment make? and also how much does the 40 time vary after playing several downs verses coming out fresh? (durability). At best it's a ball park stat to tell you if they have enough speed to be considered for a position.

I agree, if you do the math you come to the surprising conclusion, based on the numbers, that Elliot would be less than a yard ahead of Henry after 40 yards------which "should" make tackling him quite easy with the right technique. And a 4.7 DB would also be within easy tackling distance of Henry. Changing directions also gives the runner some separation, if timed right, at least temporarily. But his stiff arm is really a weapon, I was taught to grab the stiff arm and not let it get to you, and hang on until help arrived, but that might not work in his case. He might put the football under one arm and me under the other and run faster.
 
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Tskware

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Jan 26, 2003
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high school times are a joke, complete waste of time to pay any attention to them.

Ezekiel Elliot at 4.47 caught my eye, that guy is a load, should be a hell of a pro
 
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Apr 13, 2002
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I think the 40 time is an over rated stat. Players that have ran track before and are taught how to come out of the starting blocks can turn in times 1-2 tenths better than players with no track experience. Also how many times does a player run in a straight line for 40 yards in a football game? what difference does wearing all that equipment make? and also how much does the 40 time vary after playing several downs verses coming out fresh? (durability). At best it's a ball park stat to tell you if they have enough speed to be considered for a position.

Totally agree. Its an overrated stat. Just gives one a baseline for comparison I suppose.
 

JordanJ21

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Derrick Henry being at 4.52 is just unfair. As long as he stays healthy he will be a stud in the league.
 

BlueRaider22

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I don't think it's an overrated stat when you combine with other measurables.

Agreed. The problem comes when fans who aren't very knowledgeable about the 40 time overstate the importance of it.

Coaches and scouts know what is important and not important about it....or any other physical test. There's a reason why combines and pro-days exist.
 
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jauk11

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I have long thought the shuttle time is much more important than the forty time for most players, especially for linemen on both sides of the ball. Also important for a QB in evading sacks, IMO, and Towles had an outstanding one------but then he also had an outstanding time for the forty for someone his size, too bad he wasn't allowed to run the ball more last year.
 

BlueRaider22

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Derrick Henry being at 4.52 is just unfair. As long as he stays healthy he will be a stud in the league.

He scares me. On one hand his potential is awesome. The speed is nice (I'd like to note his split times). The size and style are interesting. There aren't many guys who have been his size or running style (with the sheer amount of miles) that have done well in the NFL.

Speaking as a Titan fan....where he has been linked possibly going to us in the 2nd.....I'm curiously and cautiously optimistic.

Also, because I'm salivating like crazy for next yrs RB draft class.
 
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Deeeefense

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Speaking as a Titan fan....where he has been linked possibly going to us in the 2nd.....I'm curiously and cautiously optimistic.

Alabama running backs have a recent history of being under-performers at the next level. Trent Richardson was a bust after being bounced around the league and is now out of football. Eddie Lacy was demoted to 2nd team by the Packers at mid season this year. Ingram has had some decent numbers at NO but nothing Heisman like by any stretch.

It seems as though these guys leave college with their tanks half empty.
 
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hmt5000

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It's why the official laser timed events are so much better evaluators of speed than just hand timed.
 

BlueRaider22

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Alabama running backs have a recent history of being under-performers at the next level. Trent Richardson was a bust after being bounced around the league and is now out of football. Eddie Lacy was demoted to 2nd team by the Packers at mid season this year. Ingram has had some decent numbers at NO but nothing Heisman like by any stretch.

It seems as though these guys leave college with their tanks half empty.

That's why I noted the extreme workload he has had......and how it worries me. Next yr's draft class is insane.....my preference would be for us to pick up a veteran like Ivory, then target a stud next yr.
 

Michigan Fan

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Alabama running backs have a recent history of being under-performers at the next level. Trent Richardson was a bust after being bounced around the league and is now out of football. Eddie Lacy was demoted to 2nd team by the Packers at mid season this year. Ingram has had some decent numbers at NO but nothing Heisman like by any stretch.

It seems as though these guys leave college with their tanks half empty.

Someone like Alabama Kenyan Drake who actually has low carries and also had a hellva combine might be very interesting in the 3rd Round for my Dallas Cowboys...ran a 4.45 40 @ 6-1 210...pretty close to DeMarco Murray measurables
 

Grumpyolddawg

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Marshall can fly! Holy moly that's blazing! And Henry carrying that load at 4.5? No wonder it takes a few to bring him down. He has wheels for a dude his size. Sherman tank!

Marshall has always been a burner, he was on the junior national team and ran a 10.3 100 meters on the international level. Its a little different than US meets where you can't anticipate the gun, there is a reaction time built into the blocks, if you leave faster than your reaction time its a false start.

His knee injury didn't hurt his speed, but he has average balance and vision. He is very good hands, maybe even a little better, I was hoping he would come back after his injury as a WR but that didn't happen. Hope he catches on with some team, he's a good kid and never had any kind of issues at UGA/
 
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Probably distracted thinking about their Solid State Physics exam coming up------or their basketweaving III class if they are at UL-------or their rape trial if they are at TU. Probably still thinking about those things for a couple of weeks after graduation------or leaving early.

Good thread though, a little surprising that Drake didn't get more carries-------I wonder how fast Harris really is going to be at Bama------no, not that one, the one that is the 3rd overall commit in the 17 class. Of course he is also bigger, 6' 2" and 222#. Amazing thing in an article the other day, Bama will have NINETEEN five stars available next year, and probably more 6.0s, like the Heisman winner.

I was on the same team as possibly the 2nd fastest track guy in the world at the time, finished second in the 100 yard dash that set the world record at 9.3 seconds at 9.4. Long time ago. I had never been on a track in my life, my small high school didn't have one, we had football in the fall, basketball in the winter, and football spring practice in the spring. I saw this guy, only 5' 9" at best, float for 100 yards touching the ground about every five yards and switched to the 440, wise choice, made the Ft Bliss track team there------AND avoided being completely embarrassed.

He's not going to wind up at Bama. He's going to flip at some point, probably to USC. Still expect Cam Akers to "landmass" us and wind up at Ole Miss.
 

Grumpyolddawg

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He's not going to wind up at Bama. He's going to flip at some point, probably to USC. Still expect Cam Akers to "landmass" us and wind up at Ole Miss.

Nice term Rammer, after reading Nkemdiche's explanation of him falling out a hotel window while in Atlanta and saying it was a party with a room full of people including Laremy Tunsil OM under Freeze is living on the edge. Robert said he wasn't smoking, inspite of pot being all over the room, he was just drunk and fell out the window.
 

ukfan03

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I have a friend that says he run a 4.2 40 in high school. Every time something comes up referring to high school glory days that's the first thing he mentions. I can't look him in the eye when he starts spewing that crap. He really believes it. I'd like to punch the guy that ran the watch in the nads.
 

Grumpyolddawg

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I have a friend that says he run a 4.2 40 in high school. Every time something comes up referring to high school glory days that's the first thing he mentions. I can't look him in the eye when he starts spewing that crap. He really believes it. I'd like to punch the guy that ran the watch in the nads.

I remember one time a fellow coach wanted to get too clocks on a kid so I walked over to be the 2nd watch. I got the kid in 4.6+, other coach was all excited and said 4.26. He came over and asked what did you get, I told him and he asked me if I was late stopping the clock. His method of timing was starting the clock when the first foot hit the ground, not on movement which was how I started. Kid was probably a 4.7 maybe 4.8 with a legit starter. Quick feet and all, but not fast. When world record holders in the sprints are running 4.3, there just aren't going to be very many sub 4.5 HS kids and certainly not the number we see on these recruiting sites. A tenth is much distance when it comes down to it, about a yard, so easy to cheat a little and make the kid feel good about himself.
 
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Deeeefense

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^ Also listed HS 40 times are "best times", which mean the player may have been timed on 10, 20 or 50 other occasions and got a worse time. So is it really his "best time" or just the worst timer?
 
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fuzz77

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Marshall has always been a burner, he was on the junior national team and ran a 10.3 100 meters on the international level. Its a little different than US meets where you can't anticipate the gun, there is a reaction time built into the blocks, if you leave faster than your reaction time its a false start.
Grumpy...in high level T&F meets they measure the reaction time between the gun and the runner responding to the gun. Any time < .1 is considered a false start. Supposedly nobody has a reaction time less than .1 seconds. Whereas in NFL combine 40 times there is no gun, no start signal. The clock starts when the runner starts. They just require that the runner be completely still for 1 second before they start.
 

jauk11

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Grumpy...in high level T&F meets they measure the reaction time between the gun and the runner responding to the gun. Any time < .1 is considered a false start. Supposedly nobody has a reaction time less than .1 seconds. Whereas in NFL combine 40 times there is no gun, no start signal. The clock starts when the runner starts. They just require that the runner be completely still for 1 second before they start.


Wow, is that true, if so then you would need to add about a tenth of a second to all the Pro times to make them in line with T&F times, so the times wouldn't be nearly as impressive. The times would be good for relative times, I assume we can say Marshall was the fastest one there.

So how about the high school coach without help that wants to be at the finish line and uses the sound of the gun, it would take a tenth of a second for the sound to get to him so the times would be that much faster? Don't bet that it has never happened.
 

fuzz77

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Wow, is that true, if so then you would need to add about a tenth of a second to all the Pro times to make them in line with T&F times, so the times wouldn't be nearly as impressive. The times would be good for relative times, I assume we can say Marshall was the fastest one there.

So how about the high school coach without help that wants to be at the finish line and uses the sound of the gun, it would take a tenth of a second for the sound to get to him so the times would be that much faster? Don't bet that it has never happened.

More than you could ever want to know about reaction times...

False start detection:

Since the ‘70s, false starts in major meets have been determined electronically, with ever more sophisticated sensors, and based on research showing that no human can react in less than a tenth of a second. So if the timing shows that a runner begins moving out of the blocks in less than one-tenth of a second, the runner is charged with a false start. This aspect of the false start rule caused a major disruption at the 2003 World Championships.

Jon Drummond was charged with false-starting in a 100-meter quarterfinal after the sensors showed that he reacted in about six-one hundredths of a second.

Because a false start had already been charged to the field, he was disqualified. Drummond argued with officials, then staged a sit-in, lying down on the track, repeating “I didn’t move” to anyone who’d listen. Despite the electronic evidence, he may have had a point; to the naked eye (look for Drummond in Lane 4 of the video) he doesn’t even appear to be the first off the starting line. Indeed, the crowd, after initially jeering as Drummond delayed the race, began cheering him when the replay was shown on the stadium’s screen. In the end, Drummond and Asafa Powell – who also moved in less than a tenth of a second – were disqualified. Coincidentally, it was Bolden who won the heat, but not before Drummond’s protest had delayed the race by about 50 minutes.

Below is the reaction time data for everyone in that heat.




Best Reaction Times
The best athletes reaction times are usually in the range of 120 mSec (0.12 sec) to 160 mSec (see graphs below). Tim Montgomery improved that to a near perfect 104 mSec - and came very very close to being false-started. The only sprinter to get closer to perfection was Surin Bruny - who managed a 101 mSec in a the 1999 WC 2nd semi-final .

Burrell's 1991 world record began with a reaction time of just 117 mSec. In the same race, Carl Lewis reacted in a snail's-pace 166 mSec, probably because he'd deliberately slowed his start due to having an earlier false-start posted against him (this put him at risk of disqualification if he false-started again). Taking away reaction time, Burrell covered the 100 metres in 9.783 seconds, Lewis in 9.764. Lewis was actually the faster runner, but Burrell was the better "gunner".

In Rome (1987) Carl Lewis' reaction time was 193 mSec for a 9.93 sec run. By Seoul 1988, it was 136 mSec for his 9.92 sec run against Ben Johnsons' 9.79 (Johnson was disqualified for drug positive test), in Tokyo (1991) it was 140 mSec for his World Record 9.86 run. Lewis's 1991 run was 70 mS faster than his 1987 result, and 50 mSec of that improvement was the reduction in start reaction time (source data: Biomechanics and Movement Science listserver discussion response by J R Mereika or see alsoMereika's page 10 metre split data - Men's 100m); the other 20 mSec could have been wind or other climatic factors!