Best way to send a message to Kneel

[steeleer]

Fire Lyons.

Not at the end of the year, not at the end of the season. I mean this week.

Bring in someone who isn't Brown's buddy that will call him out in public and make him answer for his decisions. Someone that will tell him to hire an OC and fire his OL coach immediately after this season is up. He needs to to sit down with Kneel and Doege together and tell Doege he will not be given a scholarship for next year and hit the portal now if that doesn't sit well.

Who would do all that?

Bob Huggins would....and he would do it twice on Tuesday if needed.

He doesn't talk WVU football much at all anymore. I guarantee you this soft *** team makes him sick.

 

[Vernon]

Fire Lyons.

Not at the end of the year, not at the end of the season. I mean this week.

Bring in someone who isn't Brown's buddy that will call him out in public and make him answer for his decisions. Someone that will tell him to hire an OC and fire his OL coach immediately after this season is up. He needs to to sit down with Kneel and Doege together and tell Doege he will not be given a scholarship for next year and hit the portal now if that doesn't sit well.

Who would do all that?

Bob Huggins would....and he would do it twice on Tuesday if needed.

He doesn't talk WVU football much at all anymore. I guarantee you this soft *** team makes him sick.

Fwiw I don't view Lyons as a "buddy" to Brown.

 

[steeleer]

Fwiw I don't view Lyons as a "buddy" to Brown.

You would know better than I, but that would make his giving Kneel an extension when he did even more perplexing. Who was he bidding against? Himself?

 

[Vernon]

You would know better than I, but that would make his giving Kneel an extension when he did even more perplexing. Who was he bidding against? Himself?

I can't answer that and have many questions and concerns myself. Brown has definitely had interest from other schools but I think you'll see far less of that now, obviously.

 

[dangerousdaneerfan]

Fire Lyons.

Not at the end of the year, not at the end of the season. I mean this week.

Bring in someone who isn't Brown's buddy that will call him out in public and make him answer for his decisions. Someone that will tell him to hire an OC and fire his OL coach immediately after this season is up. He needs to to sit down with Kneel and Doege together and tell Doege he will not be given a scholarship for next year and hit the portal now if that doesn't sit well.

Who would do all that?

Bob Huggins would....and he would do it twice on Tuesday if needed.

He doesn't talk WVU football much at all anymore. I guarantee you this soft *** team makes him sick.

Lyons should be canned anyway. He is a junior Fast Eddie. The only difference is that Shame does not have John Raese hanging onto his pant leg.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Lyons should be canned anyway. He is a junior Fast Eddie. The only difference is that Shame does not have John Raese hanging onto his pant leg.

Eddie never gave out extensions until contract was running out.

 

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers_rivals]

Lyons should be canned anyway. He is a junior Fast Eddie. The only difference is that Shame does not have John Raese hanging onto his pant leg.

I EXPECTED SHANE LYON TO LEARN BETTER FROM HIS ALABAMA EXPERIENCE WERE THE PROCESS GUARANTEED EXCELLENCE YEAR AFTER YEAR. I GUESS IT ONLY WORKS IF YOU HAVE A NICK SABAN OR BEAR BRYANT DOING IT. COACHING MATTERS.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

I can't answer that and have many questions and concerns myself. Brown has definitely had interest from other schools but I think you'll see far less of that now, obviously.

Not Brown/Lyons specific but I really cant believe AD's still fall for that scheme..

Brown hasn't had a successful season yet and while I dont doubt somewhere out there, someone had some vague interest in him, I highly doubt it was anything threatening...

Lyons need to use his head and just call the bluff, which is what it is...

 

[Darth_VadEER]

Fire Lyons and hire Brown's agent...he is obviously smarter and actually competent.

 

[Butler-eer]

Eddie never gave out extensions until contract was running out.

Eddie wouldn't get rid of coaches no matter what their record. Lyons isn't close to being as bad as Eddie.

 

[Butler-eer]

I EXPECTED SHANE LYON TO LEARN BETTER FROM HIS ALABAMA EXPERIENCE WERE THE PROCESS GUARANTEED EXCELLENCE YEAR AFTER YEAR. I GUESS IT ONLY WORKS IF YOU HAVE A NICK SABAN OR BEAR BRYANT DOING IT. COACHING MATTERS.

And donors out the wazoo ready to pony up anything it takes to build facilities and pay for players.

 

[Volatility_rivals135605]

Its amazing to me how some people allow themselves and their thoughts to be governed by emotions.

Lyons was voted just relatively recently as the top AD in the COUNTRY, not to mention all the good he has+is doing for the University to put us in a better position to be competitive in multiple sports.

The vast majority of blame is SQUARELY on DH... His transfer or bust all chips pushed in 2018 strategy left MASSIVE.....MASSIVE holes on the roster, from both a talent & experience perspective. Im not saying NB and this staff cant improve, because they can, but are we having this discussion if Doege doesnt make a few absolutely STUPID BONEHEADED plays and we beat Maryland, OU, Texas Tech, & possibly KState??

The best player development in the world only goes so far, players have to execute routine plays & in critical situations, and not make stupid game killing mistakes.

How much of our offensive issues are with:

1. A very young OL - They are talented, but also very young and we are experiencing normal growing pains of an inexperienced OL.

2. An inconsistent & immobile QB that makes horrendous mistakes and the only route he can hit is an inside slant, but because the next best option is a RedhShirt Freshmen who didnt read coverages in HS who had a shortened True Freshmen year due to Covid or a True Freshmen whos just learning the playbook & familiarization of P5 speed.

3. Lack of game-breaking play-makers, no "home-run" threat, aside from Wright, but if your QB cant consistently execute certain routes & concepts utilization is probably < 60% of his ability.

OR

Somehow in the 3 years at WVU, Neal Brown lost his ability to coach at a high level after taking a program like TROY and beating LSU @ LSU, Nebraska @ Nebraska, & taking the National Champ Clemson Tigers to the final whistle and done it all with a blatantly less talented team. If anything, that should tell you how bad the situation was at WVU.... Which would have surely Lost to TROY if Brown could magically coach two teams..

We are not having this conversation if Doege doesnt make those horrendous mistakes. I dont know if we would have beat KState or not with a quality QB, but we would have definitely beat OU, Terps, & Texas Tech.

At some point, you cant fault the staff for player execution mistakes. A coach can develop the players perfectly, teach perfect technique, call the perfect play with the perfect scheme, but a player still has to execute it.

Brown is building WVU the right way, but its a long term strategy, but it will also offer higher upside & consistency, however it does require patience. I definitely think there are areas the staff can improve, they are not perfect, but this staff is dealing with some significant roster, skillset, & experience limitations at the moment that will only be resolved by recruiting & time. Anything built of real value takes time, its a slow process, significant program-wide change occurs incrementally. That said, if we find a good QB we could see a dramatic improvement in our performance floor, because its such a critical position.


Once our OL are a bit older, and we have a less restrictive QB, I will expect to see an equal improvement in offensive creativity, aggressiveness, & reduction of predictability. The issue, Brown will be playing a 1st yr starting QB next yr, his 4th yr, so we should hopefully begin to see results towards the middle-end of next season. If we dont see them by end of next season or some point in the 5th season, then Ill be the first to say its time to move on.. Considering his starting point, and how the QB situation will work out, he deserves enough time to coach a team entirely made up of his recruits before we move on. Esp if Brown continues in recruit in the top 25-35 range and pulls in a few quality pieces from the portal. I will say, if at the end of the 5th season we move on from Brown, he will have left the program LIGHT YEARS ahead of where he found it, as long as the majority of his recruits remain here when+if he leaves.

 

[Rootmaster]

volatility...stfum.

 

[op2]

Its amazing to me how some people allow themselves and their thoughts to be governed by emotions.

Lyons was voted just relatively recently as the top AD in the COUNTRY, not to mention all the good he has+is doing for the University to put us in a better position to be competitive in multiple sports.

The vast majority of blame is SQUARELY on DH... His transfer or bust all chips pushed in 2018 strategy left MASSIVE.....MASSIVE holes on the roster, from both a talent & experience perspective. Im not saying NB and this staff cant improve, because they can, but are we having this discussion if Doege doesnt make a few absolutely STUPID BONEHEADED plays and we beat Maryland, OU, Texas Tech, & possibly KState??

The best player development in the world only goes so far, players have to execute routine plays & in critical situations, and not make stupid game killing mistakes.

How much of our offensive issues are with:

1. A very young OL - They are talented, but also very young and we are experiencing normal growing pains of an inexperienced OL.

2. An inconsistent & immobile QB that makes horrendous mistakes and the only route he can hit is an inside slant, but because the next best option is a RedhShirt Freshmen who didnt read coverages in HS who had a shortened True Freshmen year due to Covid or a True Freshmen whos just learning the playbook & familiarization of P5 speed.

3. Lack of game-breaking play-makers, no "home-run" threat, aside from Wright, but if your QB cant consistently execute certain routes & concepts utilization is probably < 60% of his ability.

OR

Somehow in the 3 years at WVU, Neal Brown lost his ability to coach at a high level after taking a program like TROY and beating LSU @ LSU, Nebraska @ Nebraska, & taking the National Champ Clemson Tigers to the final whistle and done it all with a blatantly less talented team. If anything, that should tell you how bad the situation was at WVU.... Which would have surely Lost to TROY if Brown could magically coach two teams..

We are not having this conversation if Doege doesnt make those horrendous mistakes. I dont know if we would have beat KState or not with a quality QB, but we would have definitely beat OU, Terps, & Texas Tech.

At some point, you cant fault the staff for player execution mistakes. A coach can develop the players perfectly, teach perfect technique, call the perfect play with the perfect scheme, but a player still has to execute it.

Brown is building WVU the right way, but its a long term strategy, but it will also offer higher upside & consistency, however it does require patience. I definitely think there are areas the staff can improve, they are not perfect, but this staff is dealing with some significant roster, skillset, & experience limitations at the moment that will only be resolved by recruiting & time. Anything built of real value takes time, its a slow process, significant program-wide change occurs incrementally. That said, if we find a good QB we could see a dramatic improvement in our performance floor, because its such a critical position.


Once our OL are a bit older, and we have a less restrictive QB, I will expect to see an equal improvement in offensive creativity, aggressiveness, & reduction of predictability. The issue, Brown will be playing a 1st yr starting QB next yr, his 4th yr, so we should hopefully begin to see results towards the middle-end of next season. If we dont see them by end of next season or some point in the 5th season, then Ill be the first to say its time to move on.. Considering his starting point, and how the QB situation will work out, he deserves enough time to coach a team entirely made up of his recruits before we move on. Esp if Brown continues in recruit in the top 25-35 range and pulls in a few quality pieces from the portal. I will say, if at the end of the 5th season we move on from Brown, he will have left the program LIGHT YEARS ahead of where he found it, as long as the majority of his recruits remain here when+if he leaves.

I hope you're right. It's true that a lot of good coaching can be taken away by a couple bad plays. If Wright catches that ball on the 2nd play of the game and if the defensive guy pulls up on the QB on the play we got the INT then that whole game might have been different.

The fact that we have to waste so many timeouts this far into Neal Brown's reign worries me a bit.

Also, NB kicked *** at Troy but that was before the portal was a big thing. When a new, big change happens like with the portal there is no guarantee that someone that was successful before will be able to adapt to it.

 

[Rootmaster]

he didn't exactly...kick ***...at troy lol

 

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers_rivals]

Its amazing to me how some people allow themselves and their thoughts to be governed by emotions.

Lyons was voted just relatively recently as the top AD in the COUNTRY, not to mention all the good he has+is doing for the University to put us in a better position to be competitive in multiple sports.

The vast majority of blame is SQUARELY on DH... His transfer or bust all chips pushed in 2018 strategy left MASSIVE.....MASSIVE holes on the roster, from both a talent & experience perspective. Im not saying NB and this staff cant improve, because they can, but are we having this discussion if Doege doesnt make a few absolutely STUPID BONEHEADED plays and we beat Maryland, OU, Texas Tech, & possibly KState??

The best player development in the world only goes so far, players have to execute routine plays & in critical situations, and not make stupid game killing mistakes.

How much of our offensive issues are with:

1. A very young OL - They are talented, but also very young and we are experiencing normal growing pains of an inexperienced OL.

2. An inconsistent & immobile QB that makes horrendous mistakes and the only route he can hit is an inside slant, but because the next best option is a RedhShirt Freshmen who didnt read coverages in HS who had a shortened True Freshmen year due to Covid or a True Freshmen whos just learning the playbook & familiarization of P5 speed.

3. Lack of game-breaking play-makers, no "home-run" threat, aside from Wright, but if your QB cant consistently execute certain routes & concepts utilization is probably < 60% of his ability.

OR

Somehow in the 3 years at WVU, Neal Brown lost his ability to coach at a high level after taking a program like TROY and beating LSU @ LSU, Nebraska @ Nebraska, & taking the National Champ Clemson Tigers to the final whistle and done it all with a blatantly less talented team. If anything, that should tell you how bad the situation was at WVU.... Which would have surely Lost to TROY if Brown could magically coach two teams..

We are not having this conversation if Doege doesnt make those horrendous mistakes. I dont know if we would have beat KState or not with a quality QB, but we would have definitely beat OU, Terps, & Texas Tech.

At some point, you cant fault the staff for player execution mistakes. A coach can develop the players perfectly, teach perfect technique, call the perfect play with the perfect scheme, but a player still has to execute it.

Brown is building WVU the right way, but its a long term strategy, but it will also offer higher upside & consistency, however it does require patience. I definitely think there are areas the staff can improve, they are not perfect, but this staff is dealing with some significant roster, skillset, & experience limitations at the moment that will only be resolved by recruiting & time. Anything built of real value takes time, its a slow process, significant program-wide change occurs incrementally. That said, if we find a good QB we could see a dramatic improvement in our performance floor, because its such a critical position.


Once our OL are a bit older, and we have a less restrictive QB, I will expect to see an equal improvement in offensive creativity, aggressiveness, & reduction of predictability. The issue, Brown will be playing a 1st yr starting QB next yr, his 4th yr, so we should hopefully begin to see results towards the middle-end of next season. If we dont see them by end of next season or some point in the 5th season, then Ill be the first to say its time to move on.. Considering his starting point, and how the QB situation will work out, he deserves enough time to coach a team entirely made up of his recruits before we move on. Esp if Brown continues in recruit in the top 25-35 range and pulls in a few quality pieces from the portal. I will say, if at the end of the 5th season we move on from Brown, he will have left the program LIGHT YEARS ahead of where he found it, as long as the majority of his recruits remain here when+if he leaves.

CAPTAIN BS NEVER GIVES UP. NEAL WILL BE SUB-.500 FOR 5 SEASONS AND CAPTAIN BS STILL WILL BE SAYING "GIVE HIM MORE TIME."

 

[steeleer]

Eddie never gave out extensions until contract was running out.

Say what you will, Eddie played it by the book. We've become so enamored with "thinking outside the box" at WVU that they have lost sight of simple business principles, like not bidding against yourself.

 

[steeleer]

Not Brown/Lyons specific but I really cant believe AD's still fall for that scheme..

Brown hasn't had a successful season yet and while I dont doubt somewhere out there, someone had some vague interest in him, I highly doubt it was anything threatening...

Lyons need to use his head and just call the bluff, which is what it is...

Yup. He got played.

 

[steeleer]

Its amazing to me how some people allow themselves and their thoughts to be governed by emotions.

Lyons was voted just relatively recently as the top AD in the COUNTRY, not to mention all the good he has+is doing for the University to put us in a better position to be competitive in multiple sports.

The vast majority of blame is SQUARELY on DH... His transfer or bust all chips pushed in 2018 strategy left MASSIVE.....MASSIVE holes on the roster, from both a talent & experience perspective. Im not saying NB and this staff cant improve, because they can, but are we having this discussion if Doege doesnt make a few absolutely STUPID BONEHEADED plays and we beat Maryland, OU, Texas Tech, & possibly KState??

The best player development in the world only goes so far, players have to execute routine plays & in critical situations, and not make stupid game killing mistakes.

How much of our offensive issues are with:

1. A very young OL - They are talented, but also very young and we are experiencing normal growing pains of an inexperienced OL.

2. An inconsistent & immobile QB that makes horrendous mistakes and the only route he can hit is an inside slant, but because the next best option is a RedhShirt Freshmen who didnt read coverages in HS who had a shortened True Freshmen year due to Covid or a True Freshmen whos just learning the playbook & familiarization of P5 speed.

3. Lack of game-breaking play-makers, no "home-run" threat, aside from Wright, but if your QB cant consistently execute certain routes & concepts utilization is probably < 60% of his ability.

OR

Somehow in the 3 years at WVU, Neal Brown lost his ability to coach at a high level after taking a program like TROY and beating LSU @ LSU, Nebraska @ Nebraska, & taking the National Champ Clemson Tigers to the final whistle and done it all with a blatantly less talented team. If anything, that should tell you how bad the situation was at WVU.... Which would have surely Lost to TROY if Brown could magically coach two teams..

We are not having this conversation if Doege doesnt make those horrendous mistakes. I dont know if we would have beat KState or not with a quality QB, but we would have definitely beat OU, Terps, & Texas Tech.

At some point, you cant fault the staff for player execution mistakes. A coach can develop the players perfectly, teach perfect technique, call the perfect play with the perfect scheme, but a player still has to execute it.

Brown is building WVU the right way, but its a long term strategy, but it will also offer higher upside & consistency, however it does require patience. I definitely think there are areas the staff can improve, they are not perfect, but this staff is dealing with some significant roster, skillset, & experience limitations at the moment that will only be resolved by recruiting & time. Anything built of real value takes time, its a slow process, significant program-wide change occurs incrementally. That said, if we find a good QB we could see a dramatic improvement in our performance floor, because its such a critical position.


Once our OL are a bit older, and we have a less restrictive QB, I will expect to see an equal improvement in offensive creativity, aggressiveness, & reduction of predictability. The issue, Brown will be playing a 1st yr starting QB next yr, his 4th yr, so we should hopefully begin to see results towards the middle-end of next season. If we dont see them by end of next season or some point in the 5th season, then Ill be the first to say its time to move on.. Considering his starting point, and how the QB situation will work out, he deserves enough time to coach a team entirely made up of his recruits before we move on. Esp if Brown continues in recruit in the top 25-35 range and pulls in a few quality pieces from the portal. I will say, if at the end of the 5th season we move on from Brown, he will have left the program LIGHT YEARS ahead of where he found it, as long as the majority of his recruits remain here when+if he leaves.

Our team will get better. Our OL will improve simply by getting older. My issues involve his obvious emotional attachment to Doege. He might be our best QB, but he isn't nearly good enough to compete at this level. Starting one of the backups by the LIU game would have made for a rough first month, BUT AT LEAST GREENE OR GOOSE WOULD HAVE IMPROVED!!!

Instead we have a horrible offense and an overworked defense. Worse yet we are, without a doubt, a worse team now than we were the first month of this season.

The obvious question is "why?"

The equally obvious answer is Brown.

I'm fully aware of Lyons award. He also f'd up our football program by extending Brown. Someone's head needs to roll, and Kneel's is too expensive right now. At the same time, we cannot let the past 2 seasons pass without a message being sent to Kneel and to our fans.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

Its amazing to me how some people allow themselves and their thoughts to be governed by emotions.

Lyons was voted just relatively recently as the top AD in the COUNTRY, not to mention all the good he has+is doing for the University to put us in a better position to be competitive in multiple sports.

The vast majority of blame is SQUARELY on DH... His transfer or bust all chips pushed in 2018 strategy left MASSIVE.....MASSIVE holes on the roster, from both a talent & experience perspective. Im not saying NB and this staff cant improve, because they can, but are we having this discussion if Doege doesnt make a few absolutely STUPID BONEHEADED plays and we beat Maryland, OU, Texas Tech, & possibly KState??

The best player development in the world only goes so far, players have to execute routine plays & in critical situations, and not make stupid game killing mistakes.

How much of our offensive issues are with:

1. A very young OL - They are talented, but also very young and we are experiencing normal growing pains of an inexperienced OL.

2. An inconsistent & immobile QB that makes horrendous mistakes and the only route he can hit is an inside slant, but because the next best option is a RedhShirt Freshmen who didnt read coverages in HS who had a shortened True Freshmen year due to Covid or a True Freshmen whos just learning the playbook & familiarization of P5 speed.

3. Lack of game-breaking play-makers, no "home-run" threat, aside from Wright, but if your QB cant consistently execute certain routes & concepts utilization is probably < 60% of his ability.

OR

Somehow in the 3 years at WVU, Neal Brown lost his ability to coach at a high level after taking a program like TROY and beating LSU @ LSU, Nebraska @ Nebraska, & taking the National Champ Clemson Tigers to the final whistle and done it all with a blatantly less talented team. If anything, that should tell you how bad the situation was at WVU.... Which would have surely Lost to TROY if Brown could magically coach two teams..

We are not having this conversation if Doege doesnt make those horrendous mistakes. I dont know if we would have beat KState or not with a quality QB, but we would have definitely beat OU, Terps, & Texas Tech.

At some point, you cant fault the staff for player execution mistakes. A coach can develop the players perfectly, teach perfect technique, call the perfect play with the perfect scheme, but a player still has to execute it.

Brown is building WVU the right way, but its a long term strategy, but it will also offer higher upside & consistency, however it does require patience. I definitely think there are areas the staff can improve, they are not perfect, but this staff is dealing with some significant roster, skillset, & experience limitations at the moment that will only be resolved by recruiting & time. Anything built of real value takes time, its a slow process, significant program-wide change occurs incrementally. That said, if we find a good QB we could see a dramatic improvement in our performance floor, because its such a critical position.


Once our OL are a bit older, and we have a less restrictive QB, I will expect to see an equal improvement in offensive creativity, aggressiveness, & reduction of predictability. The issue, Brown will be playing a 1st yr starting QB next yr, his 4th yr, so we should hopefully begin to see results towards the middle-end of next season. If we dont see them by end of next season or some point in the 5th season, then Ill be the first to say its time to move on.. Considering his starting point, and how the QB situation will work out, he deserves enough time to coach a team entirely made up of his recruits before we move on. Esp if Brown continues in recruit in the top 25-35 range and pulls in a few quality pieces from the portal. I will say, if at the end of the 5th season we move on from Brown, he will have left the program LIGHT YEARS ahead of where he found it, as long as the majority of his recruits remain here when+if he leaves.

Don't stop now, those boots still need some licking...

 

[The Bell Tolls for Thee]

Its amazing to me how some people allow themselves and their thoughts to be governed by emotions.

Lyons was voted just relatively recently as the top AD in the COUNTRY, not to mention all the good he has+is doing for the University to put us in a better position to be competitive in multiple sports.

The vast majority of blame is SQUARELY on DH... His transfer or bust all chips pushed in 2018 strategy left MASSIVE.....MASSIVE holes on the roster, from both a talent & experience perspective. Im not saying NB and this staff cant improve, because they can, but are we having this discussion if Doege doesnt make a few absolutely STUPID BONEHEADED plays and we beat Maryland, OU, Texas Tech, & possibly KState??

The best player development in the world only goes so far, players have to execute routine plays & in critical situations, and not make stupid game killing mistakes.

How much of our offensive issues are with:

1. A very young OL - They are talented, but also very young and we are experiencing normal growing pains of an inexperienced OL.

2. An inconsistent & immobile QB that makes horrendous mistakes and the only route he can hit is an inside slant, but because the next best option is a RedhShirt Freshmen who didnt read coverages in HS who had a shortened True Freshmen year due to Covid or a True Freshmen whos just learning the playbook & familiarization of P5 speed.

3. Lack of game-breaking play-makers, no "home-run" threat, aside from Wright, but if your QB cant consistently execute certain routes & concepts utilization is probably < 60% of his ability.

OR

Somehow in the 3 years at WVU, Neal Brown lost his ability to coach at a high level after taking a program like TROY and beating LSU @ LSU, Nebraska @ Nebraska, & taking the National Champ Clemson Tigers to the final whistle and done it all with a blatantly less talented team. If anything, that should tell you how bad the situation was at WVU.... Which would have surely Lost to TROY if Brown could magically coach two teams..

We are not having this conversation if Doege doesnt make those horrendous mistakes. I dont know if we would have beat KState or not with a quality QB, but we would have definitely beat OU, Terps, & Texas Tech.

At some point, you cant fault the staff for player execution mistakes. A coach can develop the players perfectly, teach perfect technique, call the perfect play with the perfect scheme, but a player still has to execute it.

Brown is building WVU the right way, but its a long term strategy, but it will also offer higher upside & consistency, however it does require patience. I definitely think there are areas the staff can improve, they are not perfect, but this staff is dealing with some significant roster, skillset, & experience limitations at the moment that will only be resolved by recruiting & time. Anything built of real value takes time, its a slow process, significant program-wide change occurs incrementally. That said, if we find a good QB we could see a dramatic improvement in our performance floor, because its such a critical position.


Once our OL are a bit older, and we have a less restrictive QB, I will expect to see an equal improvement in offensive creativity, aggressiveness, & reduction of predictability. The issue, Brown will be playing a 1st yr starting QB next yr, his 4th yr, so we should hopefully begin to see results towards the middle-end of next season. If we dont see them by end of next season or some point in the 5th season, then Ill be the first to say its time to move on.. Considering his starting point, and how the QB situation will work out, he deserves enough time to coach a team entirely made up of his recruits before we move on. Esp if Brown continues in recruit in the top 25-35 range and pulls in a few quality pieces from the portal. I will say, if at the end of the 5th season we move on from Brown, he will have left the program LIGHT YEARS ahead of where he found it, as long as the majority of his recruits remain here when+if he leaves.

Neal Brown inherited a mess. The recruiting infrastructure and recruiting classes are a significant improvement from what was left behind. If a coach comes to replace coach Brown in the next few years, that coach will be walking into a much better situation what Brown walked into.

All that said, the fact is that pretty much every coach that has gone .500 or less in 3 consecutive years do not then go onto be highly successful at that school. Some have gone on to other places or had success elsewhere. I'm all ears if you can name a coach in the last 4 decades that had 3 consecutive .500 or below seasons and then went on to have better than average results for that program.

 

[KingCoal]

Its amazing to me how some people allow themselves and their thoughts to be governed by emotions.

Lyons was voted just relatively recently as the top AD in the COUNTRY, not to mention all the good he has+is doing for the University to put us in a better position to be competitive in multiple sports.

The vast majority of blame is SQUARELY on DH... His transfer or bust all chips pushed in 2018 strategy left MASSIVE.....MASSIVE holes on the roster, from both a talent & experience perspective. Im not saying NB and this staff cant improve, because they can, but are we having this discussion if Doege doesnt make a few absolutely STUPID BONEHEADED plays and we beat Maryland, OU, Texas Tech, & possibly KState??

The best player development in the world only goes so far, players have to execute routine plays & in critical situations, and not make stupid game killing mistakes.

How much of our offensive issues are with:

1. A very young OL - They are talented, but also very young and we are experiencing normal growing pains of an inexperienced OL.

2. An inconsistent & immobile QB that makes horrendous mistakes and the only route he can hit is an inside slant, but because the next best option is a RedhShirt Freshmen who didnt read coverages in HS who had a shortened True Freshmen year due to Covid or a True Freshmen whos just learning the playbook & familiarization of P5 speed.

3. Lack of game-breaking play-makers, no "home-run" threat, aside from Wright, but if your QB cant consistently execute certain routes & concepts utilization is probably < 60% of his ability.

OR

Somehow in the 3 years at WVU, Neal Brown lost his ability to coach at a high level after taking a program like TROY and beating LSU @ LSU, Nebraska @ Nebraska, & taking the National Champ Clemson Tigers to the final whistle and done it all with a blatantly less talented team. If anything, that should tell you how bad the situation was at WVU.... Which would have surely Lost to TROY if Brown could magically coach two teams..

We are not having this conversation if Doege doesnt make those horrendous mistakes. I dont know if we would have beat KState or not with a quality QB, but we would have definitely beat OU, Terps, & Texas Tech.

At some point, you cant fault the staff for player execution mistakes. A coach can develop the players perfectly, teach perfect technique, call the perfect play with the perfect scheme, but a player still has to execute it.

Brown is building WVU the right way, but its a long term strategy, but it will also offer higher upside & consistency, however it does require patience. I definitely think there are areas the staff can improve, they are not perfect, but this staff is dealing with some significant roster, skillset, & experience limitations at the moment that will only be resolved by recruiting & time. Anything built of real value takes time, its a slow process, significant program-wide change occurs incrementally. That said, if we find a good QB we could see a dramatic improvement in our performance floor, because its such a critical position.


Once our OL are a bit older, and we have a less restrictive QB, I will expect to see an equal improvement in offensive creativity, aggressiveness, & reduction of predictability. The issue, Brown will be playing a 1st yr starting QB next yr, his 4th yr, so we should hopefully begin to see results towards the middle-end of next season. If we dont see them by end of next season or some point in the 5th season, then Ill be the first to say its time to move on.. Considering his starting point, and how the QB situation will work out, he deserves enough time to coach a team entirely made up of his recruits before we move on. Esp if Brown continues in recruit in the top 25-35 range and pulls in a few quality pieces from the portal. I will say, if at the end of the 5th season we move on from Brown, he will have left the program LIGHT YEARS ahead of where he found it, as long as the majority of his recruits remain here when+if he leaves.

It is clear that you're a huge supporter of HCNB, willing to take a "deep dive" to protect him, and eager to place all of the blame on the prior coach, which, in Year #3, is incredibly lame, IMO. Are you able to present a persuasive argument as to why the extension given to HCNB (prematurely, in the opinion of many) was a wise move by A.D. Lyons?

 

[EERs 3:16]

I'm shocked that 'taking a dump on his front lawn' wasn't one of the replies.

 

[WVUALLEN]

You would know better than I, but that would make his giving Kneel an extension when he did even more perplexing. Who was he bidding against? Himself?

You can't even spell the man's name correctly. Why should anyone respect your childish thoughts and opinion. I don't care if you like him or hate him or want him fired. Just be an adult about it. But I agree no extension should have been given. But I do understand why they did it at the time.

Neal Brown now must get it out of his head that he is no longer at Troy or a G5 SCHOOL.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

You can't even spell the man's name correctly. Why should anyone respect your childish thoughts and opinion. I don't care if you like him or hate him or want him fired. Just be an adult about it. But I agree no extension should have been given. But I do understand why they did it at the time.

Neal Brown now must get it out of his head that he is no longer at Troy or a G5 SCHOOL.

I believe I started calling him Kneel and its really caught on....kids, don't believe that you cant change the world. Im proof one person can.

 

[WVUALLEN]

I believe I started calling him Kneel and its really caught on....kids, don't believe that you cant change the world. Im proof one person can.

Uneducated creeker.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

Uneducated creeker.

Thats a term I'm unfamiliar with, but I'm pretty sure I get the gist...might co-opt it for my own use, thanks.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Thats a term I'm unfamiliar with, but I'm pretty sure I get the gist...might co-opt it for my own use, thanks.

You are too funny. And know how to handle sarcastic bastards without anger.

 

[Volatility_rivals135605]

It is clear that you're a huge supporter of HCNB, willing to take a "deep dive" to protect him, and eager to place all of the blame on the prior coach, which, in Year #3, is incredibly lame, IMO. Are you able to present a persuasive argument as to why the extension given to HCNB (prematurely, in the opinion of many) was a wise move by A.D. Lyons?

If Brown inherited a typical/average WVU roster with a few developed QB's on the roster, and not one of if not thee worst WVU roster in the 21 century from a talent & experience perspective, the starting point matters.

If Brown inherited a 7-8 win roster, my expectations for this season would be much higher. My expectations are based on:

1. The team he inherited
2. The holes on roster in critical positions
3. The amount of time to resolve those talent & experience holes
4. How that lack of talent & experience places significant limitations on offensive prowess, creativity, concepts, schemes, etc which all vastly multiply limitations & predictability.
5. 2017 was DH's worst recruiting year, which makes sense to not see massive improvement this year as the worst class are Seniors. Which is a big deal, as WVU is and has always been a developmental program that heavily relies on upperclassmen to compete at higher levels.
6. The level of youth that are heavily relied on. While Zach & Wyatt may be great players in time with high upside, in NO WAY should they be starting right now as Freshmen on the OL... Our OL should be Seniors & Juniors, with 2nd string being Soph & Fresh... NEVER in WVU history has WVU been good while playing mostly Fresh & Soph....

Im not a fan of hiring & firing coaches after 2-4 years because history shows, even under far superior conditions, it takes 5 years before significant progress is shown. That makes sense when you look at the time it takes to slowly improve overall team talent, depth, & experience with each passing recruiting class, and how long it takes those classes before they offer peak output.

I just think considering how NB is recruiting and what little he had+has to work with, he should be given enough time to coach a team of his making before we make serious decisions about looking elsewhere. NB is recruiting at a level never before seen at WVU, and hes doing it without showing much progress yet on the field. Imagine how much better he'll be able to recruit when results start to show. The end of next season will be critical for him to not lose momentum, and the 5th year will determine if we continue with NB as our HC.

You cant place everything on Brown. 2.8 years is not enough time, players are ultimately responsible for what happens on the field, thats why recruiting is so valuable and hes showing he can certainly bring enough talent to WVU to achieve realistic expectations, if provided enough time for them to mature, develop, & offer impactful results. There are hundreds of variables to consider when looking at a coaches quality within a specific & limited timeframe.

All Im saying is lets see what he can do with a team he recruited before we make a decision. If we continue to see the same or similar results Ill be the first to say lets move on.. Its a pretty simple & logical perspective.

Lyons & Brown know 1000% more then we do about the state of affairs when he was hired, but if you look at that 2019 roster, it was pretty pathetic, and I think the extension is due to Browns ability to build a program, a culture, his recruiting, his success last year with an inferior roster, and frankly we would not even be having this conversation if Doege doesnt make a few incredibly stupid decisions/mistakes...

 

[EERs 3:16]

If Brown inherited a typical/average WVU roster with a few developed QB's on the roster, and not one of if not thee worst WVU roster in the 21 century from a talent & experience perspective, the starting point matters.

If Brown inherited a 7-8 win roster, my expectations for this season would be much higher. My expectations are based on:

1. The team he inherited
2. The holes on roster in critical positions
3. The amount of time to resolve those talent & experience holes
4. How that lack of talent & experience places significant limitations on offensive prowess, creativity, concepts, schemes, etc which all vastly multiply limitations & predictability.
5. 2017 was DH's worst recruiting year, which makes sense to not see massive improvement this year as the worst class are Seniors. Which is a big deal, as WVU is and has always been a developmental program that heavily relies on upperclassmen to compete at higher levels.
6. The level of youth that are heavily relied on. While Zach & Wyatt may be great players in time with high upside, in NO WAY should they be starting right now as Freshmen on the OL... Our OL should be Seniors & Juniors, with 2nd string being Soph & Fresh... NEVER in WVU history has WVU been good while playing mostly Fresh & Soph....

Im not a fan of hiring & firing coaches after 2-4 years because history shows, even under far superior conditions, it takes 5 years before significant progress is shown. That makes sense when you look at the time it takes to slowly improve overall team talent, depth, & experience with each passing recruiting class, and how long it takes those classes before they offer peak output.

I just think considering how NB is recruiting and what little he had+has to work with, he should be given enough time to coach a team of his making before we make serious decisions about looking elsewhere. NB is recruiting at a level never before seen at WVU, and hes doing it without showing much progress yet on the field. Imagine how much better he'll be able to recruit when results start to show. The end of next season will be critical for him to not lose momentum, and the 5th year will determine if we continue with NB as our HC.

You cant place everything on Brown. 2.8 years is not enough time, players are ultimately responsible for what happens on the field, thats why recruiting is so valuable and hes showing he can certainly bring enough talent to WVU to achieve realistic expectations, if provided enough time for them to mature, develop, & offer impactful results. There are hundreds of variables to consider when looking at a coaches quality within a specific & limited timeframe.

All Im saying is lets see what he can do with a team he recruited before we make a decision. If we continue to see the same or similar results Ill be the first to say lets move on.. Its a pretty simple & logical perspective.

Lyons & Brown know 1000% more then we do about the state of affairs when he was hired, but if you look at that 2019 roster, it was pretty pathetic, and I think the extension is due to Browns ability to build a program, a culture, his recruiting, his success last year with an inferior roster, and frankly we would not even be having this conversation if Doege doesnt make a few incredibly stupid decisions/mistakes...

If what you said is true, then shouldn’t we see some improvements in year three?

 

[Volatility_rivals135605]

If what you said is true, then shouldn’t we see some improvements in year three?

You dont see improvement? If this was 2019 we could have been smoked by OU, VT, & Terps, remember we got 2-3 extremely lucky breaks in 2019 in both KState & TCU, that was a 3 win team that got extremely lucky, a mircale we hit 5 wins.

We have been competitive / down to last possession in majority of games this year, and if we would have consistent QB play we are not having a discussion of "Not seeing improvement in year 3"...

Just like how its not Dana's fault Grier gave OU 14 points with two fumble 6's... Its not Browns fault Doege has a temporary freeze of brain function and makes game losing mistakes.

Wins & Losses are a dark side of the moon view of progress... Was it competitive, was it down to the wire, was it a blow out, was it a freak play, was it a horrible mistake by the most critical player... Progress can be made, even with a L on the record.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

You dont see improvement? If this was 2019 we could have been smoked by OU, VT, & Terps, remember we got 2-3 extremely lucky breaks in 2019 in both KState & TCU, that was a 3 win team that got extremely lucky, a mircale we hit 5 wins.

We have been competitive / down to last possession in majority of games this year, and if we would have consistent QB play we are not having a discussion of "Not seeing improvement in year 3"...

Just like how its not Dana's fault Grier gave OU 14 points with two fumble 6's... Its not Browns fault Doege has a temporary freeze of brain function and makes game losing mistakes.

Wins & Losses are a dark side of the moon view of progress... Was it competitive, was it down to the wire, was it a blow out, was it a freak play, was it a horrible mistake by the most critical player... Progress can be made, even with a L on the record.

He gets a fat paycheck to win games. That's it.

Win or hit the road.

Your fantasy stats dont mean anything.

 

[WVUFanForever]

volatility...stfum.

Someone disagrees with the low iq narrative of rootie...this is what you get...you forgot to call him a commie and a Biden lover.

 

[mountaineermaniac34]

If you want West Virginia to be a winner, pay the players more. You can do that now. If you want the picks of the transfer portal and keep players from entering the transfer portal, pay them to stay and pay them to come.

OK business owners, start opening up your pockets. Surely we can afford a better quarterback then Doege.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

If you want West Virginia to be a winner, pay the players more. You can do that now. If you want the picks of the transfer portal and keep players from entering the transfer portal, pay them to stay and pay them to come.

OK business owners, start opening up your pockets. Surely we can afford a better quarterback then Doege.

Only if it gives me a percentage of his future gross earnings....

 

[The Bell Tolls for Thee]

If Brown inherited a typical/average WVU roster with a few developed QB's on the roster, and not one of if not thee worst WVU roster in the 21 century from a talent & experience perspective, the starting point matters.

If Brown inherited a 7-8 win roster, my expectations for this season would be much higher. My expectations are based on:

1. The team he inherited
2. The holes on roster in critical positions
3. The amount of time to resolve those talent & experience holes
4. How that lack of talent & experience places significant limitations on offensive prowess, creativity, concepts, schemes, etc which all vastly multiply limitations & predictability.
5. 2017 was DH's worst recruiting year, which makes sense to not see massive improvement this year as the worst class are Seniors. Which is a big deal, as WVU is and has always been a developmental program that heavily relies on upperclassmen to compete at higher levels.
6. The level of youth that are heavily relied on. While Zach & Wyatt may be great players in time with high upside, in NO WAY should they be starting right now as Freshmen on the OL... Our OL should be Seniors & Juniors, with 2nd string being Soph & Fresh... NEVER in WVU history has WVU been good while playing mostly Fresh & Soph....

Im not a fan of hiring & firing coaches after 2-4 years because history shows, even under far superior conditions, it takes 5 years before significant progress is shown. That makes sense when you look at the time it takes to slowly improve overall team talent, depth, & experience with each passing recruiting class, and how long it takes those classes before they offer peak output.

I just think considering how NB is recruiting and what little he had+has to work with, he should be given enough time to coach a team of his making before we make serious decisions about looking elsewhere. NB is recruiting at a level never before seen at WVU, and hes doing it without showing much progress yet on the field. Imagine how much better he'll be able to recruit when results start to show. The end of next season will be critical for him to not lose momentum, and the 5th year will determine if we continue with NB as our HC.

You cant place everything on Brown. 2.8 years is not enough time, players are ultimately responsible for what happens on the field, thats why recruiting is so valuable and hes showing he can certainly bring enough talent to WVU to achieve realistic expectations, if provided enough time for them to mature, develop, & offer impactful results. There are hundreds of variables to consider when looking at a coaches quality within a specific & limited timeframe.

All Im saying is lets see what he can do with a team he recruited before we make a decision. If we continue to see the same or similar results Ill be the first to say lets move on.. Its a pretty simple & logical perspective.

Lyons & Brown know 1000% more then we do about the state of affairs when he was hired, but if you look at that 2019 roster, it was pretty pathetic, and I think the extension is due to Browns ability to build a program, a culture, his recruiting, his success last year with an inferior roster, and frankly we would not even be having this conversation if Doege doesnt make a few incredibly stupid decisions/mistakes...

WVU from 2018-2021 is not a unique case of down in the dumps despair within the college football world. I'm fairly sure there have been worse cases than ours. Hence the general rule that coaches starting out 3 seasons of .500 generally do not go on to consistently get above average results for that same program applies here. There are exceptions to every rule and a first time for everything. But it seems that you more so have a hope or faith in Brown for the future and are trying rationally justify it as a logical conclusion based upon objective measures.

The guy has really improved WVU in the areas Holgorsen was weak. Better ambassador, better with donors, better with recruiting, and definitely better at coaching focusing on more than just the offense. However he is not better and maybe worse at implementing the players we do have. I guarantee Holgorsen could've taken Austin Kendall and gotten a Skylar Howard performance out of him. If he improves recruiting but requires an exact roster of players, he will still fail as only the blue bloods will ever be able to pick and choose players to their needs. A successful WVU coach will always have to adapt to some degree of roster/depth deficiency and I've not seen much of that from this staff.

Brown is better at building a foundation for a successful program than Holgorsen was. However so far he is showing other weaknesses that are concerning that he will not do much with that foundation. WVU has been used as a stepping stone by coaches before, but maybe this time WVU will use Brown as a stepping stone to find another coach that can hit the ground running with the foundation of recruiting Brown has built.

 

[Rootmaster]

shout out to Allen....Kneel....Kneel...Kneel...Kneel...etc

 

[KingCoal]

If Brown inherited a typical/average WVU roster with a few developed QB's on the roster, and not one of if not thee worst WVU roster in the 21 century from a talent & experience perspective, the starting point matters.

If Brown inherited a 7-8 win roster, my expectations for this season would be much higher. My expectations are based on:

1. The team he inherited
2. The holes on roster in critical positions
3. The amount of time to resolve those talent & experience holes
4. How that lack of talent & experience places significant limitations on offensive prowess, creativity, concepts, schemes, etc which all vastly multiply limitations & predictability.
5. 2017 was DH's worst recruiting year, which makes sense to not see massive improvement this year as the worst class are Seniors. Which is a big deal, as WVU is and has always been a developmental program that heavily relies on upperclassmen to compete at higher levels.
6. The level of youth that are heavily relied on. While Zach & Wyatt may be great players in time with high upside, in NO WAY should they be starting right now as Freshmen on the OL... Our OL should be Seniors & Juniors, with 2nd string being Soph & Fresh... NEVER in WVU history has WVU been good while playing mostly Fresh & Soph....

Im not a fan of hiring & firing coaches after 2-4 years because history shows, even under far superior conditions, it takes 5 years before significant progress is shown. That makes sense when you look at the time it takes to slowly improve overall team talent, depth, & experience with each passing recruiting class, and how long it takes those classes before they offer peak output.

I just think considering how NB is recruiting and what little he had+has to work with, he should be given enough time to coach a team of his making before we make serious decisions about looking elsewhere. NB is recruiting at a level never before seen at WVU, and hes doing it without showing much progress yet on the field. Imagine how much better he'll be able to recruit when results start to show. The end of next season will be critical for him to not lose momentum, and the 5th year will determine if we continue with NB as our HC.

You cant place everything on Brown. 2.8 years is not enough time, players are ultimately responsible for what happens on the field, thats why recruiting is so valuable and hes showing he can certainly bring enough talent to WVU to achieve realistic expectations, if provided enough time for them to mature, develop, & offer impactful results. There are hundreds of variables to consider when looking at a coaches quality within a specific & limited timeframe.

All Im saying is lets see what he can do with a team he recruited before we make a decision. If we continue to see the same or similar results Ill be the first to say lets move on.. Its a pretty simple & logical perspective.

Lyons & Brown know 1000% more then we do about the state of affairs when he was hired, but if you look at that 2019 roster, it was pretty pathetic, and I think the extension is due to Browns ability to build a program, a culture, his recruiting, his success last year with an inferior roster, and frankly we would not even be having this conversation if Doege doesnt make a few incredibly stupid decisions/mistakes...

I don't advocate firing HCNB at this point, either, but the premature extension given to him was foolish, if not absurd. It put the University in a terrible position. You continue to excuse HCNB and blame Holgorsen for everything, but imagine how bad WVU would be, if several of Holgorsen's recruits hadn't stuck around. Can you imagine 2020 WVU without Leddie Brown or the Stills brothers?

 

[WVUFanForever]

Everyone was waiting on the edge of their seats for the opinion of a suckeye fan on the matter.

 

[EERs 3:16]

You dont see improvement? If this was 2019 we could have been smoked by OU, VT, & Terps, remember we got 2-3 extremely lucky breaks in 2019 in both KState & TCU, that was a 3 win team that got extremely lucky, a mircale we hit 5 wins.

We have been competitive / down to last possession in majority of games this year, and if we would have consistent QB play we are not having a discussion of "Not seeing improvement in year 3"...

Just like how its not Dana's fault Grier gave OU 14 points with two fumble 6's... Its not Browns fault Doege has a temporary freeze of brain function and makes game losing mistakes.

Wins & Losses are a dark side of the moon view of progress... Was it competitive, was it down to the wire, was it a blow out, was it a freak play, was it a horrible mistake by the most critical player... Progress can be made, even with a L on the record.

No, I really do not. Losing is still losing. It doesn’t matter how you lost, or the point differential, the only thing that matters Is winning and losing. And WVU is now losing games it should win.

This team is sill making the same stupid mistakes, there seems to be a lack of attention to the small things, QB play has not improved. -that’s squarely on the coaches-, and play calling is …blah at best.

It is Brown’s fault that Doege is -at least in Brown’s view- the best an only option to play QB. It is Brown’s fault for not at least trying another solution….. At this point, what’s wrong with trying out Crowder.

Mistakes and bad plays happen. Good teams are able to rebound from those bad mistakes and Brown’s teams aren’t capable of rebounding…. There’s a lack of convenience looming over this team and it starts at the top. And while DH’s teams weren‘t always the best, we knew that WVU was going to put up a fight and the game would at least be entertaining…. And let’s be honest, this team doesn‘t know the meaning of the word ‘swagger’

Lyons took a chance on NB and he lost. He assumed that this team was on the upswing and that people liked HCNB enough to get away with the extension.