Granted, his offensive game has really not improved from last year with exception of free throws, however his defense, rebounding and shot blocking has been much improved even from beginning of season. He is definitely team MVP
Big Cliff
- Thread starter mugrat86
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Cliff was a warrior today.
The 5 day rest comes at a perfect time.
missed dunks sometimes happen with fatigue . his defense was more important today, His D on final play will be remembered along with the JY steal at Minnesota, Caleb's OSU block, etc
Team will be rested, Crowd will be electric on Thursday.
& lots of Paul to Cliff Dunks..
The 5 day rest comes at a perfect time.
missed dunks sometimes happen with fatigue . his defense was more important today, His D on final play will be remembered along with the JY steal at Minnesota, Caleb's OSU block, etc
Team will be rested, Crowd will be electric on Thursday.
& lots of Paul to Cliff Dunks..
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He got some help on the boards today from Hyatt.
Cliff is the MVP. He protects the rim sooooooo much better than anyone else on the team. What he did in the last :14 was absurd. He’s an alien.
I was really concerned on the last play when I saw him tip out the rebound attempt. I guess he could not grab it.
Amazing that he had the response time and athleticism to block that last shot.
Amazing that he had the response time and athleticism to block that last shot.
How is his defense improved when any decent big man is having their way with him. I do agree about everything else.
He is better than anyone else on the team because the depth behind him at the center position is awful.
Eyore rears his ugly head again
Yes, great play at the end of the game and Crowl is not a good player. Did you watch the Neb game where Walker took him to school and players were driving to the basket and scoring at will. Do I have to list all of the centers that have taken him to school this year.
Who behind him can play the center position against Big 10 competition.
Even though he wasn't great offensively yesterday he still a couple huge buckets. Game tying hook shot late was massive.
Walker had 16, was 8 for 10 from the floor.
You are hanging an entire season's critique on one play though. We all know Cliff is a freak athlete and that was an amazing play to end the game. His offense was maddening yesterday though. Too many missed shots in the gimmie range. I know you aren't agreeing with @billgumpper , but he is making some very valid points.
Its the consistency that is the issue...not just game to game but within games themselves
He was very very good in the last 4 minutes yesterday
He was very very good in the last 4 minutes yesterday
Michigan has serious size. Not sure about the Paul to Cliff dunks part of your note.
Cliff is the difference maker that puts no limit on how far we could go in dance. He is definitely team MVP this year.
You aren't getting an argument in this statement. Earlier, Bill said "How is his defense improved when any decent big man is having their way with him. I do agree about everything else." And you countered by referring to one single play at the end of yesterday's game. One play does not refute Bill's response and define the entire year for Cliff...which is what my post was about..
Because his shot blocking and help defense has changed the way teams play against us
In case you haven’t noticed, not many good teams have a great option at back up center unless the starter is not so hot. Hard to find a quality back up when he will likely play 6 minutes a game
I'll agree that Cliff is the MVP, but not because of his play, it's because the depth behind him is so bad that he is the one player we could not afford to lose.
He seemed to have trouble versus the Nebraska big men
The last play was excellent but he did have trouble previously
Against the two best big men in the league, Cliff held TJD to 13 points and Edey to 19 (3 below his avg)
Can we all agree Cliff has some warts, but at the same time, is our most important piece of the puzzle?
Did you watch the games. Against TJD the 1st game Cliff sat almost all of the 1st half in foul trouble and Pike triple teamed TJD the whole game. Against Edey, Edey sat most of the 1st half in foul trouble and put up 15 in the 2nd half.
You fail to recognize that they won both games and Cliff was a big reason why. Although Cliff only played 19 minutes against Indiana, he had 9 rebounds.
If Cliff were to enter the portal after this season, he would be able to play anywhere he wanted.
People complained all the time about Patrick Ewing. You hit the nail on the head. Cliff is an absolute gem as a player and more importantly a person. We should appreciate him while he’s here.
He has had some good defensive games and struggled a bit in others
I was surprised at how easily Nebraska got inside and scored,hopefully he can be tougher here on out
Edey basically had his normal production against us
There are some teams that would not want Cliff, like Kentucky and Duke and many teams where he'd play significantly less than at Rutgers and just about every other coach would get him far fewer post touches than he gets now.
No one ever complained about Ewing. He is one of the all time great Big men.
Cam's advanced stats like Win Shares, Box Plus Minus, are all better than Cliff's
Some teams double Cliff some don't, other than offensive rebonds, has he really killed any B1G team offensively?
It's scary to think what our offense would be without Cam
We'd be worse than everyone but Minnesota without either of them (could say same about Paul too)
Of course he protects the rim better than anyone else on the team. He is the center, it is part of the job description.
Edey was in foul trouble and missed a lot of the first half. In the second half Edey took him to school. And in the second Indiana game TJD dominated the game.
IMO Cliff's man to man defense, particularly in the post, has not been good most of the year. That had been the strong point of his game in prior years. The one thing his is not doing as much is getting into foul trouble with silly fouls, which is important because of our lack of depth, but it has been hard to watch him get beat in the post by guys I thought he was superior to.
On offense, I think the biggest issue is his inability to establish and maintain good post position to be a target for entry passes. He seems to either give up or get pushed off too easily. Yesterday, I thought he made some more authoritative moves in the post but again if he starts from a bad spot the angles increase the degree of difficulty in converting.
He does not get a lot of help from our lack of outside shooting as teams double him without fearing that we will find the open man and knock down the shot. So the double comes quick and he has struggled passing it out, which results in too many turnovers. His FT shooting is better and thus if he could develop a go to move like TJD, Danijia, Dickinson or Edey have then we would be in business.
Having said all this, a case can be made that he is our MVP just based on how bad a situation we would be in if he was out for any extended period of time. He remains our best rebounder by far and defends the pick and roll very well.
On offense, I think the biggest issue is his inability to establish and maintain good post position to be a target for entry passes. He seems to either give up or get pushed off too easily. Yesterday, I thought he made some more authoritative moves in the post but again if he starts from a bad spot the angles increase the degree of difficulty in converting.
He does not get a lot of help from our lack of outside shooting as teams double him without fearing that we will find the open man and knock down the shot. So the double comes quick and he has struggled passing it out, which results in too many turnovers. His FT shooting is better and thus if he could develop a go to move like TJD, Danijia, Dickinson or Edey have then we would be in business.
Having said all this, a case can be made that he is our MVP just based on how bad a situation we would be in if he was out for any extended period of time. He remains our best rebounder by far and defends the pick and roll very well.