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Billy G vs. Pope

DraftCat

DraftCat

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I'd list the other coaches win/losses for 2 years but for the most part they blow these 2 coaches out the water. Think Pitino has a similar record but at least he had a reason.
 
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DraftCat

DraftCat

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I’m The Village Idiot said:
DraftCat


31-0 - 2026 Miami (OH)
38-1 - 2015 Kentucky

^ You’re not intending to argue this poorly, but this is what you’re doing. I know you’re frustrated but there is no comparing Billy G’s tenure versus Pope’s. Also, don’t ban me for debating you lol
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You say that but I'm not terribly convinced that Smooth and Crawford wouldn't take this UK team to the woodshed.

But yes to your point you can't compare era's and record.
 
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I’m The Village Idiot

I’m The Village Idiot

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DraftCat said:
You don't think the 07/08 team has a shot vs this squad? Sr. - Crawford, Smooth - Soph - Meeks, Frosh - Patterson
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Anyone would have a shot against this team because this team is unpredictable but this team is far better than the ‘08 team. 2026 college basketball is far more difficult than 2008. The 2008’s teams body of work was a 11 seed team…a true bubble team. The 2026 Cats will be most likely a 7 or a 6, but an 8 is possible. There’s no comparison. Also, the SEC was as bad as it had been in many decades in 2008. It was a struggle to find which awful team wins the SEC. It was almost us. This is the 2nd strongest SEC of all time this year. Not even a comparison.
 
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DraftCat

DraftCat

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I’m The Village Idiot said:
Anyone would have a shot against this team because this team is unpredictable but this team is far better than the ‘08 team. 2026 college basketball is far more difficult than 2008. The 2008’s teams body of work was a 11 seed team…a true bubble team. The 2026 Cats will be most likely a 7 or a 6, but an 8 is possible. There’s no comparison. Also, the SEC was as bad as it had been in many decades in 2008. It was a struggle to find which awful team wins the SEC. It was almost us. This is the 2nd strongest SEC of all time this year. Not even a comparison.
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Just for the record that 2008 team only lost by 9 to UNC a Final 4 team & beat a #3 TN team at Rupp. Perhaps I give them a bit more credit than they really deserve but I'll admit they were a "childhood team".

Your point is taken though.. basketball had advanced not only in the SEC but in college and the NBA. Comparing era's is well a bit foolish unfortunately at this point.
 
I’m The Village Idiot

I’m The Village Idiot

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DraftCat said:
Just for the record that 2008 team only lost by 9 to UNC a Final 4 team & beat a #3 TN team at Rupp. Perhaps I give them a bit more credit than they really deserve but I'll admit they were a "childhood team".

Your point is taken though.. basketball had advanced not only in the SEC but in college and the NBA. Comparing era's is well a bit foolish unfortunately at this point.
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Right but we don’t know the final four from this year. If Florida goes to a final four, you’ll have to say this team lost by 9 and 7 respectively to a Final Four team. This team is nowhere as bad as feels right now, nor are they good. I’ve been banging this drum for awhile — we are just below average. The 2008 team was far below that. There’s levels to this thing.
And FWIW I agree comparing eras is difficult. But there are metrics that do help compare them, such as efficiency numbers. Go look at KenPom between 2008 and 2026 Kentucky teams. Not even in the same neighborhood. Go compare margin, losses, best wins, strength of schedule, injuries (both teams had them but 2026 is historic)….The 2026 team is far closer to the 2023 team than the 2008 team. Miles better team.
 
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DraftCat

DraftCat

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I’m The Village Idiot said:
Right but we don’t know the final four from this year. If Florida goes to a final four, you’ll have to say this team lost by 9 and 7 respectively to a Final Four team. This team is nowhere as bad as feels right now, nor are they good. I’ve been banging this drum for awhile — we are just below average. The 2008 team was far below that. There’s levels to this thing.
And FWIW I agree comparing eras is difficult. But there are metrics that do help compare them, such as efficiency numbers. Go look at KenPom between 2008 and 2026 Kentucky teams. Not even in the same neighborhood. Go compare margin, losses, best wins, strength of schedule, injuries (both teams had them but 2026 is historic)….The 2026 team is far closer to the 2023 team than the 2008 team. Miles better team.
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I get it. It's a rough comparison. All that said I'd be interested in seeing how it plays out and despite the metrics I'd give the 08 team a shot.

I hope this 26 team can make a run to the sweet 16 they have the ability.

Back to the main point however... UK record under 2 year HC with no recruits for next season this late into the process is not a good look.
 
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I’m The Village Idiot

I’m The Village Idiot

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DraftCat said:
I get it. It's a rough comparison. All that said I'd be interested in seeing how it plays out and despite the metrics I'd give the 08 team a shot.

I hope this 26 team can make a run to the sweet 16 they have the ability.
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I agreed with you. 08 has a shot. Miami OH could upset this team in round 1. Good debate, if you ever want to revisit this one let me know. I love those kind of topics.
 
NociHTTP

NociHTTP

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Billy G is not my coach
He's just a drunk who
Locked a player in a stall for life
But the guy still has no wife
🎶🎵🎶🎵
 
E

Eagles_Ball_69

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Say what you want, believe what you want. Clyde could coach his and beat Pope, then he'd coach Popes and beat him with those too. His teams played HARD. They were erratic, just like he was. The dude had demons, for sure. But he had a west Texas fight in him that was truly awesome. That mf'er didn't make excuses and whine. Given the choice, I'd much rather have a third year of Clyde than a third year of this soft a$$ dude.
 
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TheDude73

TheDude73

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The only reason BCG was fired was because he was abusing the players and was a drunk. Pope is wildly the polar opposite personality. We can all pound the table forever, but Mitchy and Eli aren't going to can Pope after a year where they can blame injuries and claim "just look what he did with the pieces he was left with!".

Pope will get a third year. If next year is the same as this year (assuming we flame out as many of us expect), he should quit on his own (but won't). Mitch and his new AD lackey will feel the heat if Pope doesn't go on his own. And if UK somehow gets a sweet draw and wins two games in the NCAAT to make another S16, that might throw a wrench in fans' hopes that Pope would be gone after a 3rd year even if the 3rd year sucks.

To be honest, this Pope is what he is - mediocre - he isn't going to suddenly figure out how to become a mega coach and take us to the promised land next year. We are BYU of the SEC, and that is what we will be as long as Pope is at UK.
 
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Eagles_Ball_69

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TheDude73 said:
The only reason BCG was fired was because he was abusing the players and was a drunk. Pope is wildly the polar opposite personality. We can all pound the table forever, but Mitchy and Eli aren't going to can Pope after a year where they can blame injuries and claim "just look what he did with the pieces he was left with!".

Pope will get a third year. If next year is the same as this year (assuming we flame out as many of us expect), he should quit on his own (but won't). Mitch and his new AD lackey will feel the heat if Pope doesn't go on his own. And if UK somehow gets a sweet draw and wins two games in the NCAAT to make another S16, that might throw a wrench in fans' hopes that Pope would be gone after a 3rd year even if the 3rd year sucks.

To be honest, this Pope is what he is - mediocre - he isn't going to suddenly figure out how to become a mega coach and take us to the promised land next year. We are BYU of the SEC, and that is what we will be as long as Pope is at UK.
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This is my biggest concern, he will be just "mid" enough to hang around forever. Those that think because "he understands the assignment" and will step down on his own because he's failing are just ridiculous. He's no less of a used car salesman than any other coach, he just has a different schtick. His schtick makes me miss Cal's crap, as crazy as that sounds.
 
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TFCat11

TFCat11

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Billy G had better talent than Pope’s teams, and did it without paying millions for his rosters. Billy G had a better resume than Pope did when they were hired. The main difference between the two is…

Pope’s players don’t play hard for him or take him seriously because his demeanor is softer than baby poop after eating at Taco Bell, and…

Billy G’s players didn’t play hard for him or take him seriously because his demeanor was that of a drunk a-hole.

So, pick your poison, because neither should have ever sniffed a job offer from UK! But fortunately for them, they were offered by the worst revenue creating sports AD to ever hold the position!
 
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TheDude73

TheDude73

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Eagles_Ball_69 said:
This is my biggest concern, he will be just "mid" enough to hang around forever. Those that think because "he understands the assignment" and will step down on his own because he's failing are just ridiculous. He's no less of a used car salesman than any other coach, he just has a different schtick. His schtick makes me miss Cal's crap, as crazy as that sounds.
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I'm afraid that's what we have. Mid level coach that will win games we aren't supposed to win and lose games we are. Then maybe make a flash in the SECT and/or NCAAT, and reboot.

There is something to be said about a blue blood - one of the kings, if not the king of blue bloods - having ZERO recruits signed. I mean, as far as I know Pope has had a bunch of kids list us as a hat on the table, but every one of those (see the list in that other thread) said NO. Yes, I know the NIL is taking over everything, but there are still 100+ top kids coming out of high schools across the country that want to play in college (for NIL money, no doubt). Why are NONE choosing UK?
 
MegaBlue05

MegaBlue05

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One thing in Pope’s favor (if we can call it that) is Pope coached in a much stronger SEC.

In Gillispie’s second year, the league was such trash that league champ LSU was an 8 seed and tournament winner UT was a 9 seed. No other SEC teams made the field. 2008 was not much better, where 2025 was the best the SEC had ever been and 2026 expects to get 9-10 teams in the dance.

I get the comparison tho.
 
OliverSimmonsTwinBrother

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Billy had the disadvantage of being left with the scrubs of late Tubby era's horrible recruiting. He was bringing in talent though, Patterson, Harrelson, Pilgram, Euton, Ross-Miller etc.

You give Billy 22 million and if he doesn't die of alcohol poisoning he would have a much better record that Pope this year.
 
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OGtruebluewildcat

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Tubby and Cal got off to hot starts. In the long run it got them just enough favor from fans for an all expense paid trip to Minnesota and Arkansas…well Tubby’s trip was paid for. Cal had to come up off some pocket jingle.

Eddie Sutton 1st and 3rd year was great. He obviously sputtered out and got into some trouble. Then went on to do great for two other programs.

Pitino pretty much a slow season or two every where he’s been then takes off like a rocket.
 
Son_Of_Saul

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I’m The Village Idiot said:
DraftCat


31-0 - 2026 Miami (OH)
38-1 - 2015 Kentucky

^ You’re not intending to argue this poorly, but this is what you’re doing. I know you’re frustrated but there is no comparing Billy G’s tenure versus Pope’s. Also, don’t ban me for debating you lol
Click to expand...
I don't know about everyone else, but you've definitely convinced me. Pope is only slightly better than BCG.
 
Hitman206

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I’m The Village Idiot said:
Anyone would have a shot against this team because this team is unpredictable but this team is far better than the ‘08 team. 2026 college basketball is far more difficult than 2008. The 2008’s teams body of work was a 11 seed team…a true bubble team. The 2026 Cats will be most likely a 7 or a 6, but an 8 is possible. There’s no comparison. Also, the SEC was as bad as it had been in many decades in 2008. It was a struggle to find which awful team wins the SEC. It was almost us. This is the 2nd strongest SEC of all time this year. Not even a comparison.
Click to expand...
Patrick Patterson was injured the end of the season and did not play in the post season tournaments. He is better than anyone on this Kentucky team. If he had been healthy, that team could have made the sweet sixteen/elite 8. Crawford and Bradley were in sync as well.
 
SamePooter

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Was Billy G ever out at the bar with fans? Just having a good time throwing back some cold ones? Or was it a behind the scenes thing?
 
UK4Life#9

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If Pope doesn’t make an elite 8 or final 4 in year three, Pope will step down. Knowing what I know, I think we will be a legit contender in year 3.
 
F

Fawrules

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I know it's popular to crap on Pope right now, but he still clears Billy G pretty easily.
Pope at least had one good season where he exceeded expectations, a couple tourney wins and will have made the tournament both of his seasons here. Which is more than you could say for Billy.

When directly comparing head to head records after two seasons, it's also important to note that the SEC is considerably tougher than it was during Billy G's tenure here, so his record would probably be worse playing in a modern SEC.
 
Eight_Banners

Eight_Banners

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DraftCat said:
2 year span

Billy G - 40-27
Pope - 43-24

Different eras so maybe hard to compare but when it comes to wins and losses the two years aren't that much different.
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(This is just a copy/paste message from something I have typed elsewhere, because people have forgotten how bad BCG was. His losses were worse, to worse competition, and his SEC record was worse in an extremely less competitive SEC)

BCG's two seasons of losses:

2007-08:
Gardner-Webb: 84-68 @ Rupp (with Patterson and Meeks)

UAB (who was 8-4, with losses to Georgia Southern, Rhode Island, and South Florida) 79-76 (Neutral) (without Meeks)

San Diego (who was 7-8): 81-72 @rupp (with Patterson and Meeks)

@ Vanderbilt: 93-52 (with Patterson and Meeks)

2008-09:
VMI: 111-103 @ Rupp (with Patterson and Meeks)

Finished 8-8 in an SEC with only two ranked teams.

Neither seasons had an SEC as stacked as last season or even as competitive as this season. Sure, you can point to the rumored $22 mil. roster, but no one knows the exact number, and even as bad as playing without Patterson and Meeks a couple of games was for those teams, Pope lost his starting PG last season and this season. I'm not firing a coach who hasn't had a healthy starting PG for the entirety of a season yet.

Is Pope the guy? It's not looking promising. Is he anywhere near the Gillispie debacle? Not even close.
 
Eight_Banners

Eight_Banners

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DraftCat said:
Just for the record that 2008 team only lost by 9 to UNC a Final 4 team & beat a #3 TN team at Rupp. Perhaps I give them a bit more credit than they really deserve but I'll admit they were a "childhood team".

Your point is taken though.. basketball had advanced not only in the SEC but in college and the NBA. Comparing era's is well a bit foolish unfortunately at this point.
Click to expand...
Yeah. Go back and actually watch those teams. If you are only working on "childhood memories" then your recollection is way off. I was in the prime of life with those teams and they were abysmal.

When you watch those games back, pay attention to how much weaker the competition is compared to the teams we're playing now.
 
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cornbreadnmilk

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Eight_Banners said:
Yeah. Go back and actually watch those teams. If you are only working on "childhood memories" then your recollection is way off. I was in the prime of life with those teams and they were abysmal.

When you watch those games back, pay attention to how much weaker the competition is compared to the teams we're playing now.
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What they have in common is that neither of these average coaches should have been hired at UK.
 
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JonathanW2

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DraftCat said:
2 year span

Billy G - 40-27
Pope - 43-24

Different eras so maybe hard to compare but when it comes to wins and losses the two years aren't that much different.
Click to expand...
A too simplistic approach to compare simply based on records.

1) Pope has faced a much tougher schedule than BCG ever did! Tougher schedule for any team that is not a top 2-3 team (and even can for those) means more losses. If we assume the SEC-T plays out by seeding as does the NCAA-T (UK goes 2-2), that would make Pope 44-25. Of those 69 games, I count 41-44 (depending on Auburn, Texas & Indiana getting in) games vs NCAA-T teams. Compare that to BCG's 67 games, played vs 19 games vs NCAA-T teams. That isn't even a close comparison!!!

2) Injuries, some claim as an excuse, but you can't deny they are/can-be a big factor. Now BCG also had injuries, BCG's 1st season he lost FR-Patterson for 6 games, SO-Jasper for 11, and SO-Meeks for 20 (although really the 11 he played he was playing hurt, so pretty much the whole season. That level of injuries is comparable to what Pope has faced either year. But in BCG's 2nd year, the team was pretty healthy (Patterson missed 2 games, & Harris missed 5).
Pick any top 10 team, remove the 2nd & 4th & 6th best players and see how they will do? They would be about where we are now. Pick the hated #1 Duke (removing Evans, Ngbonga & Sarr), leaving them with Boozer, Foster, other-Boozer, Brown, Khamenia, and they might not be ranked (unless Boozer went for 30+/gm). They would have a better record than we do because the ACC is not as good as the SEC.


All that said, is there or should there be worry & skepticism on Pope? Yes, absolutely. But I think you have to give him a 3rd year to see if he can turn it around (revealing it was mostly due to bad luck/injuries), or confirm our concerns.
 
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