Collins and his coaching staff

[Medill90]

We've been watching it happen incrementally over four years so it may not be that obvious to the diehards.

But the coaching job that's been done with this roster on both sides of the ball is jaw droppingly good (inspiring me to make up words).

You win games with defense. NU has a bad ***, lock down defense that consistently takes teams like Maryland out of their normal offense. Across 30+ games they sort of took two nights off....both road games against Illinois and Purdue.

They play tough, on ball man. They switch like the Borg. And they collapse against talent and size.

The big ten announcers said last night that NU beat up Maryland. The Maryland coach said NU pushed his team out further than they were comfortable with.

The roster is not stuffed with elite recruits. These are good basketball players and athletes who were well recruited because they had higher ceilings.

But the development has been excellent. BMac could not play man two years ago. Now he's a bad ***. Lindsey's D is incredibly underrated, he nullifies tons of real estate for the offense. And Pardon in the post is a top four defensive center among the 14 Big Ten teams and top two or three shot blocker. He was good last year, but not this good.

The coaches have this team fighting above it's weight class. Doing the little things all the time. Communicating at an elite level.

Excellent job. Excellent job done in the toughest place to get something like this done.

I think the coaching job is off the charts. They miss nothing.

This was the ticket that needed to be punched to get stellar recruits. They now have a year to get those recruits.

 

[EvanstonCat]

Excellent post.

Our guys really play in their guys' faces. The switching is amazing. Players can not get in the lane. And when they do, there is help is there. When they kick it back out, we rotate.

Not to return to a dead and buried horse, but when people talk Carmody's X's and O's being great, just his recruiting was what killed us, I say no.

Collins is a great recruiter, and a far better COACH than Carmody to boot. And not just on offense, but on defense and rebounding too.

 

[hdhntr1]

We've been watching it happen incrementally over four years so it may not be that obvious to the diehards.

But the coaching job that's been done with this roster on both sides of the ball is jaw droppingly good (inspiring me to make up words).

You win games with defense. NU has a bad ***, lock down defense that consistently takes teams like Maryland out of their normal offense. Across 30+ games they sort of took two nights off....both road games against Illinois and Purdue.

They play tough, on ball man. They switch like the Borg. And they collapse against talent and size.

The big ten announcers said last night that NU beat up Maryland. The Maryland coach said NU pushed his team out further than they were comfortable with.

The roster is not stuffed with elite recruits. These are good basketball players and athletes who were well recruited because they had higher ceilings.

But the development has been excellent. BMac could not play man two years ago. Now he's a bad ***. Lindsey's D is incredibly underrated, he nullifies tons of real estate for the offense. And Pardon in the post is a top four defensive center among the 14 Big Ten teams and top two or three shot blocker. He was good last year, but not this good.

The coaches have this team fighting above it's weight class. Doing the little things all the time. Communicating at an elite level.

Excellent job. Excellent job done in the toughest place to get something like this done.

I think the coaching job is off the charts. They miss nothing.

This was the ticket that needed to be punched to get stellar recruits. They now have a year to get those recruits.

Wis is #1 in D in the conference and NU is #2. Prepare for a D battle

 

[Wrestlerneverdiesasacatfan]

We've been watching it happen incrementally over four years so it may not be that obvious to the diehards.

But the coaching job that's been done with this roster on both sides of the ball is jaw droppingly good (inspiring me to make up words).

You win games with defense. NU has a bad ***, lock down defense that consistently takes teams like Maryland out of their normal offense. Across 30+ games they sort of took two nights off....both road games against Illinois and Purdue.

They play tough, on ball man. They switch like the Borg. And they collapse against talent and size.

The big ten announcers said last night that NU beat up Maryland. The Maryland coach said NU pushed his team out further than they were comfortable with.

The roster is not stuffed with elite recruits. These are good basketball players and athletes who were well recruited because they had higher ceilings.

But the development has been excellent. BMac could not play man two years ago. Now he's a bad ***. Lindsey's D is incredibly underrated, he nullifies tons of real estate for the offense. And Pardon in the post is a top four defensive center among the 14 Big Ten teams and top two or three shot blocker. He was good last year, but not this good.

The coaches have this team fighting above it's weight class. Doing the little things all the time. Communicating at an elite level.

Excellent job. Excellent job done in the toughest place to get something like this done.

I think the coaching job is off the charts. They miss nothing.

This was the ticket that needed to be punched to get stellar recruits. They now have a year to get those recruits.

Don't forget Sanjay,Law,and Ash! All stout on defense

 

[Figrating]

Of all the things mentioned above, the recruiting effort is the most impressive. First you must identify athletes that can get into NU, then identify those athletes that you really want, then do the persuading. The greatest used-car salesmen have nothing on these NU recruiters.

It will be fun to watch what they can do now that the team is starting to win consistently.

 

[willycat]

Excellent post.

Our guys really play in their guys' faces. The switching is amazing. Players can not get in the lane. And when they do, there is help is there. When they kick it back out, we rotate.

Not to return to a dead and buried horse, but when people talk Carmody's X's and O's being great, just his recruiting was what killed us, I say no.

Collins is a great recruiter, and a far better COACH than Carmody to boot. And not just on offense, but on defense and rebounding too.

Right and I remember that just about 5 years ago, NU couldn't/wouldn't play man to man D and retreated to their defensive end as soon as a offensive shot was put up. They are playing basketball the right way, even out-rebounding the conferences #1 team by more then 2 to 1. Great coaching by Collins and staff, bought on and off the court.

 

[FeliSilvestris]

Not to return to a dead and buried horse, but when people talk Carmody's X's and O's being great, just his recruiting was what killed us, I say no.

Collins is a great recruiter, and a far better COACH than Carmody to boot.

You seem obsessed with turning EVERY thread into an indictment of BC. That is completely unnecessary.

Praising CC does NOT require disparaging BC.

Fact is BC built a competitive B1G program at NU. He started COMPETING in the B1G as early as his SECOND season, falling just one game under .500 in the B1G. Initially there were ups and downs but toward the end of his tenure 7-8 B1G r. s. wins + NIT were the norm.

Was that enough for him to keep his job for ever? Of course not. But he can't possibly be such a terrible coach and start competing in the B1G since his 2nd season, and stabilize the program at about 40% B1G win percentage, which even coaching luminaries like Bill Foster couldn't get anywhere close to.

BC is a good coach. It may be that CC is also a good coach, possibly even better. Both may be good. Praising one does NOT require disparaging the other.

 

[Sec_112]

I'm interested to see if Gates or Baldwin get any sniffs for a head coaching gig. I assume it's a tad early for Gates. But from the outside, Baldwin has head coach written all over him.

I assume James is Dave Duncan to Collins' Tony LaRussa. He'll be with CC until he retires.

 

[D_C_B]

You seem obsessed with turning EVERY thread into an indictment of BC. That is completely unnecessary.

Praising CC does NOT require disparaging BC.

Fact is BC built a competitive B1G program at NU. He started COMPETING in the B1G as early as his SECOND season, falling just one game under .500 in the B1G. Initially there were ups and downs but toward the end of his tenure 7-8 B1G r. s. wins + NIT were the norm.

Was that enough for him to keep his job for ever? Of course not. But he can't possibly be such a terrible coach and start competing in the B1G since his 2nd season, and stabilize the program at about 40% B1G win percentage, which even coaching luminaries like Bill Foster couldn't get anywhere close to.

BC is a good coach. It may be that CC is also a good coach, possibly even better. Both may be good. Praising one does NOT require disparaging the other.

Dude, just stop it. Just stop. Carmody has NOTHING to do with this success. His failure is in fact the reason for it. We would have muddled along with his mediocrity and lack of recruiting forever and NEVER gotten to this level if not for his utter failure to recruit or get teams to even try to rebound or play defense. Never ever ever ever.

Just stop with this nonsense of yours. You have crossed well beyond the definition of insanity. You keep repeating the same crap as if something is going to change the obvious: You have been conclusively proven wrong in every single respect of everything you have ever said.

Please, do us all a favor and make your point spread picks for every game today so we can all take the other side and make a fortune!

 

[Eurocat]

I'm interested to see if Gates or Baldwin get any sniffs for a head coaching gig. I assume it's a tad early for Gates. But from the outside, Baldwin has head coach written all over him.

I assume James is Dave Duncan to Collins' Tony LaRussa. He'll be with CC until he retires.

Well, who knows, but I would be coach James could get some interviews at some of the smaller schools out there. I am sure that he is delighted to work with Chris and to be a part of all of this action, but he has been a head coach for many years and I would bet he wouldn't mind running Kent State or someplace like that if given the chance. And I think CC would do everything he can to help him attain that.

 

[FeliSilvestris]

Dude, just stop it. Just stop. Carmody has NOTHING to do with this success. His failure is in fact the reason for it. We would have muddled along with his mediocrity and lack of recruiting forever and NEVER gotten to this level if not for his utter failure to recruit or get teams to even try to rebound or play defense. Never ever ever ever.

I'd suggest that you get in the habit of READING before replying. You may have missed this:
"BC is a good coach. It may be that CC is also a good coach, possibly even better. Both may be good. Praising one does NOT require disparaging the other."

If building a B1G-competitive program at NU was so easy that even a terrible coach could do it, OBVIOUSLY it had been done much earlier by the likes of Bill Foster.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

Strictly on talent alone, where would you rank this team in the conference? Not in the top-half, certainly. What Collins has accomplished with this roster is just outstanding! Collins is an AMAZING coach and is probably top3 in the conference. I'm not even talking about his recruiting. He's great at mental mentality/preparation and in-game strategy. Hope he gets national coach of the year!

 

[EvanstonCat]

You seem obsessed with turning EVERY thread into an indictment of BC. That is completely unnecessary.

Praising CC does NOT require disparaging BC.

Fact is BC built a competitive B1G program at NU. He started COMPETING in the B1G as early as his SECOND season, falling just one game under .500 in the B1G. Initially there were ups and downs but toward the end of his tenure 7-8 B1G r. s. wins + NIT were the norm.

Was that enough for him to keep his job for ever? Of course not. But he can't possibly be such a terrible coach and start competing in the B1G since his 2nd season, and stabilize the program at about 40% B1G win percentage, which even coaching luminaries like Bill Foster couldn't get anywhere close to.

BC is a good coach. It may be that CC is also a good coach, possibly even better. Both may be good. Praising one does NOT require disparaging the other.

I thank Carmody for his contributions, as underwhelming as everything that you have kindly laid out may be (I don't know about the rest of you, but for me, looking at what BC "accomplished" at NU now just completely underscores the fact that we simply had the lowest of bars), outside of bringing in Taphorn and Sanjay. But, this myth that he was a great coach, terrible recruiter is that. He was an awful recruiter, but his coaching also left much to be desired, including his reliance on a gimmick offense, and especially his complete underemphasis on defense and rebounding. Even with offense supposedly being his forte, would anyone with half a clue in a million years trade our offense today vs. the Princeton O, which may have had its moments but ultimately was going to get stopped by teams that could play D as well as we do now? Collins is a better coach AND a better recruiter. Pointing this out isn't meant to disparage BC, but to underscore how lucky we are to have CCC and how wise the decision to fire BC and bring CCC was.

None of the Carmody defenders can say with any iota of intellectual honesty now that we did not massively upgrade our coaching situation with the move. In recruiting, in motivation, and on the X's and O's on both sides of the ball. You see it in the results, which are irrefutable, and the best is yet to come.

"BC is a good coach. It may be that CC is also a good coach, possibly even better. Both may be good. Praising one does NOT require disparaging the other."

No, CCC is a GREAT coach and most certainly FAR better. Until you get your facts straight on this, you'll continue to see posts like this shoved down your throat. Because anything that remotely smacks of what you have written is a slap in the face of Chris Collins and what he has accomplished already here. And we are only getting started. Let's see where we are in year 13 and compare CCC's accomplishments with that of Bill Carmody's. Actually, no need. Just compare CCC's accomplishments in year 4 with that of Bill Carmody's in year 13 and it's game, set, match. In straight sets and bagels.

I wish Bill Carmody the best at Holy Cross. He's in a better place where he is a better fit, and we're absolutely in a better place.

 

[olsh]

Excellent post.

Our guys really play in their guys' faces. The switching is amazing. Players can not get in the lane. And when they do, there is help is there. When they kick it back out, we rotate.

Not to return to a dead and buried horse, but when people talk Carmody's X's and O's being great, just his recruiting was what killed us, I say no.

Collins is a great recruiter, and a far better COACH than Carmody to boot. And not just on offense, but on defense and rebounding too.

No need to take cheap shots at Carmody today. We WERE more competitive with him than any other coach since the 60s, until Collins took over. I think that DOES matter, though I would agree with you that it doesn't have anything to do with what Collins has done.

I don't even think you can compare X and O coaching between the two because of the disparity in recruiting and styles of recruiting and talent they were able to recruit to campus.

 

[olsh]

I thank Carmody for his contributions, as underwhelming as they may be. But, this myth that he was a great coach, terrible recruiter is that. Collins is a better coach AND a better recruiter. Pointing this out isn't meant to disparage BC, but to underscore how lucky we are to have CCC and how wise the decision to fire BC and bring CCC was.

None of the Carmody defenders can say with any iota of intellectual honesty now that we did not upgrade our coaching situation with the move.

I wish Bill Carmody the best at Holy Cross. He's in a better place where he is a better fit, we're in a better place.

This I agree with more. I'll still maintain the difference in recruiting makes any discussion of difference in coaching pretty irrelevant

 

[EvanstonCat]

No need to take cheap shots at Carmody today. We WERE more competitive with him than any other coach since the 60s, until Collins took over. I think that DOES matter, though I would agree with you that it doesn't have anything to do with what Collins has done.

I don't even think you can compare X and O coaching between the two because of the disparity in recruiting and styles of recruiting and talent they were able to recruit to campus.

Not a cheap shot at Carmody. Just telling it like it is.

We were more competitive with him than any other coach since the 60s? Not sure about that. The Eschmeyer teams were as competitive. The Rankin and Baldwin team as well. The 1982 NIT team. Even if I grant you that Carmody helped us be consistently competitive, it's like being the tallest midget in the room. Whoop-de-doo.

For years, people here complained about our facilities. Our recruiting standards. They made every excuse why we could not build a winner here. I never bought it then, and I think we all know now it was all an utter myth. A pure lack of standards and tolerance for the mediocrity that we became so used to.

And I most certainly can compare the X's and O's. It's not just talent. It's the rebounding. It's knowing how to play real defense. How you can say you can't compare, I really have no idea. These kids play harder. They have more resilience. They are winners. Sanjay and Taphorn are no question in my mind better all around players today than they would have become under 4(5) years under Carmody. Their defense isn't just about athletic ability. They are #2 in the conference, and as the Duke fans in the other thread noted, this is old school Duke D with mature and well coached players, instead of one and dones. That was a compliment.

 

[EvanstonCat]

Get in the habit of THINKING before writing. If BC was both a terrible recruiter AND a terrible coach HOW ON EARTH did he manage to stabilize NU about a 40% B1G win percentage WHEN SO MANY COACHES HAD FAILED???
Then BC must have been the luckiest guy on earth, to be able to have so many competitive seasons in the B1G while being terrible both a recruiter and strategist.

He had 13 years. Compare his resume with KON and Byrdsong's cutting it off at the tenures in which they left.

As for Foster, had Walters and that class not transferred. I think they would have made the tourney. If Geno Carlisle hadn't transferred, I think Esch would have made it too. Carmody wasn't all that. Sorry. And he certainly is not nearly as good Collins.

Oh, I do think. That's why I don't post the rubbish that you do. You should try it yourself sometime.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

CC has taken NU further than any other coach at NU has done in the last 60+ years.

Regardless on how anyone feels about BC, at this point, nobody can deny that CC has done a better job.

@FeliSilvestris

 

[Fitz51]

You seem obsessed with turning EVERY thread into an indictment of BC. That is completely unnecessary.

Praising CC does NOT require disparaging BC.

Fact is BC built a competitive B1G program at NU. He started COMPETING in the B1G as early as his SECOND season, falling just one game under .500 in the B1G. Initially there were ups and downs but toward the end of his tenure 7-8 B1G r. s. wins + NIT were the norm.

Was that enough for him to keep his job for ever? Of course not. But he can't possibly be such a terrible coach and start competing in the B1G since his 2nd season, and stabilize the program at about 40% B1G win percentage, which even coaching luminaries like Bill Foster couldn't get anywhere close to.

BC is a good coach. It may be that CC is also a good coach, possibly even better. Both may be good. Praising one does NOT require disparaging the other.

Bill Carmody is poopy.

 

[olsh]

Not a cheap shot at Carmody. Just telling it like it is.

We were more competitive with him than any other coach since the 60s? Not sure about that. The Eschmeyer teams were as competitive. The Rankin and Baldwin team as well. The 1982 NIT team. Even if I grant you that Carmody helped us be consistently competitive, it's like being the tallest midget in the room. Whoop-de-doo.

For years, people here complained about our facilities. Our recruiting standards. They made every excuse why we could not build a winner here. I never bought it then, and I think we all know now it was all an utter myth. A pure lack of standards and tolerance for the mediocrity that we became so used to.

And I most certainly can compare the X's and O's. It's not just talent. It's the rebounding. It's knowing how to play real defense. How you can say you can't compare, I really have no idea. These kids play harder. They have more resilience. They are winners. Sanjay and Taphorn are no question in my mind better all around players today than they would have become under 4(5) years under Carmody. Their defense isn't just about athletic ability. They are #2 in the conference, and as the Duke fans in the other thread noted, this is old school Duke D with mature and well coached players, instead of one and dones. That was a compliment.

Eschmeyer TEAM. Not teams. Those teams were one year blips, barely above .500.

I could also say those kids play "harder" or have more "resilience" because they're MUCH BETTER. BC recruited kids who just couldn't play at a physical level in the conference. We have those guys now. Makes a huge difference. Don't take THAT as an insult at Collins ---- recruiting is 80-85 percent of the job. If both coaches maximized what they had, and I think they mostly did, the difference in results would be pretty apparent (and I think it also is).

 

[D_C_B]

I'd suggest that you get in the habit of READING before replying. You may have missed this:
"BC is a good coach. It may be that CC is also a good coach, possibly even better. Both may be good. Praising one does NOT require disparaging the other."

If building a B1G-competitive program at NU was so easy that even a terrible coach could do it, OBVIOUSLY it had been done much earlier by the likes of Bill Foster.

Whatever. Just stop it. You detract from every discussion you join. Try adding something that actually contributes here instead of just dumping on everything and everyone every time you open your big, wrong yap.

 

[willycat]

Genius, learn how to use the ignore function and put me on ignore, if my posts bother you so much. And leave me alone.
And follow your own advise.

you sure enjoy being jerk. un-happy childhood? un-happy adulthood?

 

[Styre]

Even with offense supposedly being his forte, would anyone with half a clue in a million years trade our offense today vs. the Princeton O, which may have had its moments but ultimately was going to get stopped by teams that could play D as well as we do now?

I wouldn't want us running a Princeton-style offense right now because our players aren't built for it. But Carmody's best teams were consistently more efficient offensively than any of Collins' teams thus far. If we had NU's 2011 offensive production this season, for example, we'd have won the Big Ten. Defense and rebounding killed us in the Carmody years, not offense. The important distinction between then and now is that Collins' offenses are much better than Carmody's defenses were. Carmody's defenses were so bad that they kept us from winning; Collins' offenses are solid enough that they don't let our superior defense down.

 

[willycat]

I wouldn't want us running a Princeton-style offense right now because our players aren't built for it. But Carmody's best teams were consistently more efficient offensively than any of Collins' teams thus far. If we had NU's 2011 offensive production this season, for example, we'd have won the Big Ten. Defense and rebounding killed us in the Carmody years, not offense.

ok who would you rather have as NU's coach? If you say carmody, your either a liar or know very little about basketball.

 

[Styre]

ok who would you rather have as NU's coach? If you say carmody, your either a liar or know very little about basketball.

Chris Collins, obviously. Don't be an ***.

 

[willycat]

Chris Collins, obviously. Don't be an ***.

it's you that's keeps bring carmody into these discussions. remember that he had 13 seasons, right?

 

[Styre]

it's you that's keeps bring carmody into these discussions. remember that he had 13 seasons, right?

The second post in the ****ing thread mentioned Bill Carmody and I didn't write it.

Again: don't be an ***.

 

[D_C_B]

Anybody who says "Carmody" at this point does so with the full and certain knowledge that they are picking a fight, and therefore they are intentionally being an ***. This much is certain at this point.

Just shut up about the guy. He has nothing to do with NU basketball anymore.

 

[Gladeskat]

you sure enjoy being jerk. un-happy childhood? un-happy adulthood?

From Mr. Sunshine himself!

 

[EvanstonCat]

Eschmeyer TEAM. Not teams. Those teams were one year blips, barely above .500.

I could also say those kids play "harder" or have more "resilience" because they're MUCH BETTER. BC recruited kids who just couldn't play at a physical level in the conference. We have those guys now. Makes a huge difference. Don't take THAT as an insult at Collins ---- recruiting is 80-85 percent of the job. If both coaches maximized what they had, and I think they mostly did, the difference in results would be pretty apparent (and I think it also is).

Take Carmody and take the talent we have, and I don't think we achieve what we do this year. Sorry, I don't buy that you can get to the tourney in the B1G without knowing how to rebound or defend.

 

[FeliSilvestris]

Anybody who says "Carmody" at this point does so with the full and certain knowledge that they are picking a fight, and therefore they are intentionally being an ***.

Find out who introduced Carmody into this thread and with which purpose.
Which is why I posted what I did, above.

 

[EvanstonCat]

I wouldn't want us running a Princeton-style offense right now because our players aren't built for it. But Carmody's best teams were consistently more efficient offensively than any of Collins' teams thus far. If we had NU's 2011 offensive production this season, for example, we'd have won the Big Ten. Defense and rebounding killed us in the Carmody years, not offense. The important distinction between then and now is that Collins' offenses are much better than Carmody's defenses were. Carmody's defenses were so bad that they kept us from winning; Collins' offenses are solid enough that they don't let our superior defense down.

You should have put a period after the word "now" and ended your post then and there. Because you failed to do that, I can only conclude that you are seriously smoking something much more powerful than weed.

 

[willycat]

The second post in the ****ing thread mentioned Bill Carmody and I didn't write it.

Again: don't be an ***.

,My, my such language.

 

[olsh]

Take Carmody and take the talent we have, and I don't think we achieve what we do this year. Sorry, I don't buy that you can get to the tourney in the B1G without knowing how to rebound or defend.

Obviously. That's why regardless how efficient our offense was under Carmody, we never did.
I don't think rebounding or defending has a thing to do with X's and O's. That's where we're so much better now.