Collins is still recruiting 2021 class beyond PBJ

[freewillie07]

As of July 14, NU is in the top 8 for Angelo Brizzi.

Considering it has been a while now that NU has "filled up" on scholarships, this suggests Collins is still going full steam ahead to get at least one more guy and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[Styre]

This suggests that either Gaines has already been told (or decided himself) he won't be getting a 5th year or that a player is planning to transfer that we don't yet know about.

 

[CSCatFan1]

This suggests that either Gaines has already been told (or decided himself) he won't be getting a 5th year or that a player is planning to transfer that we don't yet know about.

No. That's not how it works.

 

[cwcorgi-ks]

No. That's not how it works.

How do you think it works, then?

Also on this front, Tamar Bates continues to be recruited by NU. We may end up with a stable full of guards.

 

[CSCatFan1]

How do you think it works, then?

Also on this front, Tamar Bates continues to be recruited by NU. We may end up with a stable full of guards.

Check the Rock. We're discussing it there. Don't want to have duel posts on the same topic.

 

[cwcorgi-ks]

This suggests that either Gaines has already been told (or decided himself) he won't be getting a 5th year or that a player is planning to transfer that we don't yet know about.

Not to duel the duality, but I think this is pretty close to exactly how it works.

 

[Sec_112]

What I'm finding curious about the direction is the general lack of size. If you bring in another 6-3 lead guard, you're looking at:

Lead guards
6-3
6-2
6-2 ??
6-6
6-2 Greer

Wings
6-4 Gaines
6-7
6-4
6-7
6-9

bigs
6-10
6-10
7-0

And I'm not sure I would consider Beran or Nance bigs the way they played last year.

I'm not sure I would recruit anyone outside the top 75 as a lead guard or wing at this point. Maybe even the top 50 if the Cats were so lucky.

 

[Styre]

Check the Rock. We're discussing it there. Don't want to have duel posts on the same topic.

My thought process:

-If Gaines returns for a 5th year under scholarship, we have filled all 13 scholarship slots for 2021: Gaines, Greer, Audige, Kopp, Nance, Buie, Beran, Young, Berry, Nicholson, Roper, Simmons, Barnhizer.
-Therefore, to add another scholarship player, we must open up an additional scholarship by the time that player enrolls.
-This allows for a few possibilities: Gaines won't play his 5th year here (or will play it as a walk-on), one of the other scholarship players will leave the team before 2021, or one of the current verbal commits will decommit. (I'm excluding extreme possibilities like Collins reneging on a verbal commitment.)
-Therefore, since we are still actively recruiting at least a couple of guys for 2021, it is reasonable to assume that Collins expects to have an open scholarship when 2021 rolls around. Which suggests that either Collins knows someone is planning to transfer or that he must have informed Gaines that, if they sign another guy and nobody leaves, Gaines won't be offered a 5th year.

If there is a flaw in this reasoning, or if I'm missing another way to open a scholarship, please explain. Happy to admit I've got it wrong, as I'm no recruiting expert. However, if the only way to get an answer is to be on the premium board, I'll have to proceed in ignorance.

 

[freewillie07]

This suggests that either Gaines has already been told (or decided himself) he won't be getting a 5th year or that a player is planning to transfer that we don't yet know about.

Not sure I'd go that far. What I was implying was that Collins thinks Brizzi is a strong enough prospect that he'd be willing to not bring on Gaines for a 5th year if it came to that.

But NU has had so many transfers in recent years -- and some coming out of nowhere, like Jared Jones after his first year -- that it might not even come to that.

EDIT: I see you answered your own question... "if they sign another guy and nobody leaves, Gaines won't be offered a 5th year." Yes, that is what will happen, as is the program's right.

 

[freewillie07]

What I'm finding curious about the direction is the general lack of size. If you bring in another 6-3 lead guard, you're looking at:

Lead guards
6-3
6-2
6-2 ??
6-6
6-2 Greer

Wings
6-4 Gaines
6-7
6-4
6-7
6-9

bigs
6-10
6-10
7-0

And I'm not sure I would consider Beran or Nance bigs the way they played last year.

I'm not sure I would recruit anyone outside the top 75 as a lead guard or wing at this point. Maybe even the top 50 if the Cats were so lucky.

Disagree. It's a guard's game now, and Collins has learned this the hard way. You simply need to have at least 4-5 guys on the roster who can be a lead ballhandler. NU has never had that during Collins's tenure. Finally, in 2021, that will be a reality, with Buie, Berry, Greer, Roper and Barnheizer. If he adds a 6'4" Brizzi, all the better.

Height just for height's sake is not the answer. There are several sub-6'0" PGs that excel in college.

 

[cwcorgi-ks]

What I'm finding curious about the direction is the general lack of size. If you bring in another 6-3 lead guard, you're looking at:

Lead guards
6-3 Roper
6-3 Berry
6-2 Buie
6-2 Greer

Wings
6-4 Audige
6-4 Gaines
6-7 Simmons
6-6 Barnhizer
6-7 Kopp
6-9 Beran

bigs
6-10 Nance
6-10 Young
7-0 Nicholson

And I'm not sure I would consider Beran or Nance bigs the way they played last year.

I'm not sure I would recruit anyone outside the top 75 as a lead guard or wing at this point. Maybe even the top 50 if the Cats were so lucky.

Tried to fill in names above. After watching film, I don't see Barnhizer as a Lead guard. I agree Brizzi (and Bates) don't bring significant size differentiation. Coaches may want 2 ball-handlers on the court at all times. I also don't see how NU passes on 4-stars that want to come. Maybe we're still recruiting, but not as aggressively.

It will be interesting to see who gets moved where.

 

[Gocatsgo2003]

What I'm finding curious about the direction is the general lack of size. If you bring in another 6-3 lead guard, you're looking at:

Lead guards
6-3
6-2
6-2 ??
6-6
6-2 Greer

Wings
6-4 Gaines
6-7
6-4
6-7
6-9

bigs
6-10
6-10
7-0

And I'm not sure I would consider Beran or Nance bigs the way they played last year.

I'm not sure I would recruit anyone outside the top 75 as a lead guard or wing at this point. Maybe even the top 50 if the Cats were so lucky.

I do not read that and think "that's a team lacking in size!" Pretty good size across the board.

 

[freewillie07]

Tried to fill in names above. After watching film, I don't see Barnhizer as a Lead guard. I agree Brizzi (and Bates) don't bring significant size differentiation. Coaches may want 2 ball-handlers on the court at all times. I also don't see how NU passes on 4-stars that want to come. Maybe we're still recruiting, but not as aggressively.

It will be interesting to see who gets moved where.

How many teams nowadays don't play with two ball-handlers on the court at the same time?

Even in the tournament year, it was painful to see anyone other than BMac try to do anything with the ball. Scottie and Vic were catch-and-shoot types. Brown actually kinda fared OK because he could just put his head down and do something and that counted as "offense" for NU.

Having Boo + Roper, or Berry + Barnheizer, or any combination of those four will be a nice balance and take some pressure off the lead ballhandler. Brizzi would make it that much better.

 

[No Chores]

My thought process:

-If Gaines returns for a 5th year under scholarship, we have filled all 13 scholarship slots for 2021: Gaines, Greer, Audige, Kopp, Nance, Buie, Beran, Young, Berry, Nicholson, Roper, Simmons, Barnhizer.
-Therefore, to add another scholarship player, we must open up an additional scholarship by the time that player enrolls.
-This allows for a few possibilities: Gaines won't play his 5th year here (or will play it as a walk-on), one of the other scholarship players will leave the team before 2021, or one of the current verbal commits will decommit. (I'm excluding extreme possibilities like Collins reneging on a verbal commitment.)
-Therefore, since we are still actively recruiting at least a couple of guys for 2021, it is reasonable to assume that Collins expects to have an open scholarship when 2021 rolls around. Which suggests that either Collins knows someone is planning to transfer or that he must have informed Gaines that, if they sign another guy and nobody leaves, Gaines won't be offered a 5th year.

If there is a flaw in this reasoning, or if I'm missing another way to open a scholarship, please explain. Happy to admit I've got it wrong, as I'm no recruiting expert. However, if the only way to get an answer is to be on the premium board, I'll have to proceed in ignorance.

The best option, it would seem, would be to spring for the 2 buck a week and get all of the premium content, both basketball and football. Otherwise, as you say,you'll have to proceed in ignorance..

 

[cwcorgi-ks]

Lead guards
6-3 Roper
6-3 Berry
6-2 Buie
6-2 Greer

Wings
6-4 Audige
6-4 Gaines
6-7 Simmons
6-6 Barnhizer
6-7 Kopp
6-9 Beran

Bigs
6-10 Nance
6-10 Young
7-0 Nicholson

If we were to land PBJ, Berry and Audige prove out, and others progress, we may have at least a couple fun years ahead! I think Audige and Gaines are capable ball-handlers, but likely not lead-guards.

 

[EvanstonCat]

My thought process:

-If Gaines returns for a 5th year under scholarship, we have filled all 13 scholarship slots for 2021: Gaines, Greer, Audige, Kopp, Nance, Buie, Beran, Young, Berry, Nicholson, Roper, Simmons, Barnhizer.
-Therefore, to add another scholarship player, we must open up an additional scholarship by the time that player enrolls.
-This allows for a few possibilities: Gaines won't play his 5th year here (or will play it as a walk-on), one of the other scholarship players will leave the team before 2021, or one of the current verbal commits will decommit. (I'm excluding extreme possibilities like Collins reneging on a verbal commitment.)
-Therefore, since we are still actively recruiting at least a couple of guys for 2021, it is reasonable to assume that Collins expects to have an open scholarship when 2021 rolls around. Which suggests that either Collins knows someone is planning to transfer or that he must have informed Gaines that, if they sign another guy and nobody leaves, Gaines won't be offered a 5th year.

If there is a flaw in this reasoning, or if I'm missing another way to open a scholarship, please explain. Happy to admit I've got it wrong, as I'm no recruiting expert. However, if the only way to get an answer is to be on the premium board, I'll have to proceed in ignorance.

Doesn’t have to be that Collins knows or anyone has made a decision yet.

If you consider how many transfers we have been having each year, you can assume we’ll have one or two next year.

Or maybe someone doesn’t make it to campus for whatever reason like Lathon. Or someone is forced into retirement due to injury. Then you’re looking at needing to have someone as a backfill or we are short again. If no one transfers on their own, you can nudge someone like Greer to move on if he wants PT or you tell Gaines, sorry, no 5th year.

Honestly, If I’m Ryan Greer and looking at the roster, and have any interest in playing time, I’m probably moving on, just like some of the other players that left the last couple of years. Especially given who has committed and the fact that Bates and Brizzi are still being pursued. Kind of a nudge in itself IMO.

 

[EvanstonCat]

The best option, it would seem, would be to spring for the 2 buck a week and get all of the premium content, both basketball and football. Otherwise, as you say,you'll have to proceed in ignorance..

Probably Coral and you should make that pitch when it actually would resonate. If someone were to spring for even $2 to get some sort of insight on this particular question based on what’s available on the premium board, I’m not sure they wouldn’t be sorely disappointed and want a refund and accuse you guys of hoodwinking them. There is plenty of really good, even basketball, content that is worth the $2 and more. Getting a coherent answer on this question I don’t think is one of them.

 

[CSCatFan1]

My thought process:

-If Gaines returns for a 5th year under scholarship, we have filled all 13 scholarship slots for 2021: Gaines, Greer, Audige, Kopp, Nance, Buie, Beran, Young, Berry, Nicholson, Roper, Simmons, Barnhizer.
-Therefore, to add another scholarship player, we must open up an additional scholarship by the time that player enrolls.
-This allows for a few possibilities: Gaines won't play his 5th year here (or will play it as a walk-on), one of the other scholarship players will leave the team before 2021, or one of the current verbal commits will decommit. (I'm excluding extreme possibilities like Collins reneging on a verbal commitment.)
-Therefore, since we are still actively recruiting at least a couple of guys for 2021, it is reasonable to assume that Collins expects to have an open scholarship when 2021 rolls around. Which suggests that either Collins knows someone is planning to transfer or that he must have informed Gaines that, if they sign another guy and nobody leaves, Gaines won't be offered a 5th year.

If there is a flaw in this reasoning, or if I'm missing another way to open a scholarship, please explain. Happy to admit I've got it wrong, as I'm no recruiting expert. However, if the only way to get an answer is to be on the premium board, I'll have to proceed in ignorance.

Gaines can’t walk on as a 5th year. Now you’re a tad more intelligent at no charge!

And to think all your television listings are free to all. What a terrific service you provide.

 

[Sec_112]

It's a guard's game now ...

Height just for height's sake is not the answer. There are several sub-6'0" PGs that excel in college.

I agree it's a guards game. I'm just a bit concerned there's too many of 6-2/6-3 guys at the expense of bigger defenders against MSU and Purdue.

I also agree with your statement about height. And I'm concerned that Beran and Nance are exactly that. Hopefully one of them fills out.

What I'd really like is one more guy with ... let's call it bulk. This roster screams for a 6-8 or 6-9 bruiser. I'd take a top 200 6-8 or 6-9 tough guy over Brizzi for this roster any day of the week.

... After watching film, I don't see Barnhizer as a Lead guard ...

I don't either but that's what Bhizer said they're calling him.

Or would Snoop call him the "Bhizzle?"

Bhiz and Briz?

Bhizzle to the Brizzle?

 

[willycat]

Doesn’t have to be that Collins knows or anyone has made a decision yet.

If you consider how many transfers we have been having each year, you can assume we’ll have one or two next year.

Or maybe someone doesn’t make it to campus for whatever reason like Lathon. Or someone is forced into retirement due to injury. Then you’re looking at needing to have someone as a backfill or we are short again. If no one transfers on their own, you can nudge someone like Greer to move on if he wants PT or you tell Gaines, sorry, no 5th year.

Honestly, If I’m Ryan Greer and looking at the roster, and have any interest in playing time, I’m probably moving on, just like some of the other players that left the last couple of years. Especially given who has committed and the fact that Bates and Brizzi are still being pursued. Kind of a nudge in itself IMO.

Think you hit it out of park on Greer and if needing another spot, it's obviously Gaines. Doesn't Fitz need a WR, like Gaines? Napoleon Harris comes to mind.

 

[Styre]

Gaines can’t walk on as a 5th year. Now you’re a tad more intelligent at no charge!

And to think all your television listings are free to all. What a terrific service you provide.

Wow.

 

[Styre]

Doesn’t have to be that Collins knows or anyone has made a decision yet.

If you consider how many transfers we have been having each year, you can assume we’ll have one or two next year.

Yeah, given the direction college hoops has gone, it will be a surprise if nobody transfers. And if someone transfers, problem solved. But if we're going to overcommit in expectation of that, and it doesn't happen, we'll end up in a bind. I would imagine this has been explained to Gaines re: his possible 5th year, that he's the safety valve if nobody transfers. That's really all I'm saying.

I agree that Greer seems the most likely candidate on the current roster. But I wouldn't have predicted Jones' departure, so who knows.

 

[CSCatFan1]

Yeah, given the direction college hoops has gone, it will be a surprise if nobody transfers. And if someone transfers, problem solved. But if we're going to overcommit in expectation of that, and it doesn't happen, we'll end up in a bind. I would imagine this has been explained to Gaines re: his possible 5th year, that he's the safety valve if nobody transfers. That's really all I'm saying.

I agree that Greer seems the most likely candidate on the current roster. But I wouldn't have predicted Jones' departure, so who knows.

You really have no idea of what your talking about. There is no way that conversation with Gaines has happened. Would be totally inappropriate and completely premature. A fifth year option is discussed at the time a decision need to be made. There are so many scenarios that could potentially occur. Stick to television listings.

 

[Styre]

You really have no idea of what your talking about. There is no way that conversation with Gaines has happened. Would be totally inappropriate and completely premature. A fifth year option is discussed at the time a decision need to be made. There are so many scenarios that could potentially occur. Stick to television listings.

While it's very gracious of you to descend from Olympus to the free boards and deign to interact with the hoi polloi, you don't need to bother if you're going to be this unnecessarily hostile.

 

[freewillie07]

You really have no idea of what your talking about. There is no way that conversation with Gaines has happened. Would be totally inappropriate and completely premature. A fifth year option is discussed at the time a decision need to be made. There are so many scenarios that could potentially occur. Stick to television listings.

So, the exact same point I made hours earlier.

Not sure I'd go that far. What I was implying was that Collins thinks Brizzi is a strong enough prospect that he'd be willing to not bring on Gaines for a 5th year if it came to that.

But NU has had so many transfers in recent years -- and some coming out of nowhere, like Jared Jones after his first year -- that it might not even come to that.

Let’s just try to get as many quality Big Ten players as we can and actually use all our scholarship spots without having to do anything unseemly, OK?

 

[CSCatFan1]

So, the exact same point I made hours earlier.




Let’s just try to get as many quality Big Ten players as we can and actually use all our scholarship spots without having to do anything unseemly, OK?

Correct. No player is guaranteed a 5th year. If Gaines is not offered a 5th year (at the end of next season), he will have obtained his degree and will have the option to grad transfer. It’s best to just let the year play out and see where the chips fall.

 

[7th Cir. Cat]

Are we even 100% certain that Gaines is healthy and coming back? He did have a season ending shoulder injury and Collins is recruiting like his hair is on fire (this is a good thing). Not saying this is a Ivanouskas situation, but it's Northwestern hoops so you never know.

 

[cwcorgi-ks]

Are we even 100% certain that Gaines is healthy and coming back? He did have a season ending shoulder injury and Collins is recruiting like his hair is on fire (this is a good thing). Not saying this is a Ivanouskas situation, but it's Northwestern hoops so you never know.

He's coming back. On campus.

 

[EvanstonCat]

While it's very gracious of you to descend from Olympus to the free boards and deign to interact with the hoi polloi, you don't need to bother if you're going to be this unnecessarily hostile.

Just think, by paying just $2 bucks, you can get all of this and more!

Actually, there is some decent premium content that is worth the subscription. Just don’t expect too much from the premium discussion from the peanut gallery. My 2 cents.

 

[Mr Wickerpark]

As of July 14, NU is in the top 8 for Angelo Brizzi.

Considering it has been a while now that NU has "filled up" on scholarships, this suggests Collins is still going full steam ahead to get at least one more guy and let the chips fall where they may.

Old news. Turk already told us what is coming down. A few things need to be worked out.

 

[cwcorgi-ks]

As of July 14, NU is in the top 8 for Angelo Brizzi.

Considering it has been a while now that NU has "filled up" on scholarships, this suggests Collins is still going full steam ahead to get at least one more guy and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[Sec_112]

I'm really glad NU didn't get the kid now that we know he only has one leg.

 

[No Chores]

I'm really glad NU didn't get the kid now that we know he only has one leg.

Yet another example of why you should be on the Rock!

 

[cwcorgi-ks]

Tamar Bates playing AAU recently:

 

[cwcorgi-ks]

Well...

 

[catcrazy]

PBJ or bust. Hopefully we get him. Game changing recruit for the program

 

[7th Cir. Cat]

That's too bad about Bates, thought we had a strong chance with him. We have a great class coming in 2021 (esp. by NU standards) but we really needed Bates or PBJ for our class to be next level. Also, surprised we didn't even make the top 7. I had been hearing good things about our chances.

 

[cwcorgi-ks]

That's too bad about Bates, thought we had a strong chance with him. We have a great class coming in 2021 (esp. by NU standards) but we really needed Bates or PBJ for our class to be next level. Also, surprised we didn't even make the top 7. I had been hearing good things about our chances.

IMO, I think signing Simmons moved NU down his list and moved him down NU's list.

 

[7th Cir. Cat]

IMO, I think signing Simmons moved NU down his list and moved him down NU's list.

Interesting. You think because of a positional log jam? I think Simmons projects to be more of wing 3 (he's 6'7) and Bates is more of a traditional SG (I think he's 6'4) Bates is considering Kansas so he can't be afraid of competition to get on the court. I wonder what changed in this situation. Isn't he on the same AAU team as Ty Berry? Not shocked we didn't get him, but shocked not to be in the final 7

 

[DaCat]

Interesting. You think because of a positional log jam? I think Simmons projects to be more of wing 3 (he's 6'7) and Bates is more of a traditional SG (I think he's 6'4) Bates is considering Kansas so he can't be afraid of competition to get on the court. I wonder what changed in this situation. Isn't he on the same AAU team as Ty Berry? Not shocked we didn't get him, but shocked not to be in the final 7

Maybe Collins telegraphed his intention to go all out for PBJ and Bates got the message.