Compare Stoops/Gran/Hinshaw to Fulmer/Cutcliffe/Sanders at Tennessee.

[Robcatt24]

Believe me, it turns my stomach to compare anything UK to Tennessee.

But having been so overexposed to UT and their fans and media my whole life, I kinda know some of their history.

Fulmer and Tennessee had their greatest success when Cutcliffe and Sanders were on the UT staff.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the Vols' fall from the elite started not long after Cutcliffe left.

I've been very impressed with Gran and Hinshaw thus far, and think they could give UK football a similar boost as Cutcliffe and Sanders did at UT.

How would you compare Stoops/Gran/Hinshaw to Fulmer/Cutcliffe/Sanders?

 

[ukalum1988]

Good post, but it's waaaaaay too soon to make the comparison/evaluation you're putting out there. Pose this question at the end of the season, and I'm sure we'll have some data to have the discussion.

 

[WildCard]

Good post, but it's waaaaaay too soon to make the comparison/evaluation you're putting out there. Pose this question at the end of the season, and I'm sure we'll have some data to have the discussion.

Agree 100%! Might have even warranted a few more "a"s! [winking]

Peace

 

[Mr Schwump]

Believe me, it turns my stomach to compare anything UK to Tennessee.

But having been so overexposed to UT and their fans and media my whole life, I kinda know some of their history.

Fulmer and Tennessee had their greatest success when Cutcliffe and Sanders were on the UT staff.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the Vols' fall from the elite started not long after Cutcliffe left.

I've been very impressed with Gran and Hinshaw thus far, and think they could give UK football a similar boost as Cutcliffe and Sanders did at UT.

How would you compare Stoops/Gran/Hinshaw to Fulmer/Cutcliffe/Sanders?

Can't compare at this time. UT had been an established Top 25 team for years, UK's trying to dig out of a hole deeper than the Grand Canyon. Ask again in maybe 5 years.

 

[Blue Decade]

Good post, but it's waaaaaay too soon to make the comparison/evaluation you're putting out there. Pose this question at the end of the season, and I'm sure we'll have some data to have the discussion.

You are right. It's way too soon. I prefer Gran to Dawson. But in fairness Stoops preferred Gran when he hired Dawson, but Gran wasn't available then. I think Stoops waited at least a year too long to hire a real quarterback position coach. No doubt, Hinshaw helped Barker in April. But I want to see how Gran game plans and calls plays in SEC games before I can say whether he is comparable to other SEC coordinators. I certainly hope so.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

Believe me, it turns my stomach to compare anything UK to Tennessee.

But having been so overexposed to UT and their fans and media my whole life, I kinda know some of their history.

Fulmer and Tennessee had their greatest success when Cutcliffe and Sanders were on the UT staff.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the Vols' fall from the elite started not long after Cutcliffe left.

I've been very impressed with Gran and Hinshaw thus far, and think they could give UK football a similar boost as Cutcliffe and Sanders did at UT.

How would you compare Stoops/Gran/Hinshaw to Fulmer/Cutcliffe/Sanders?

Cutcliffe was and is one of the best qb coaches around and he also has one of the best offensive minds in college football and has for over 20 years. I disliked Fulmer a great deal and its no denying he had his greatest success when he had Cutcliffe with him. He had success at OM as their head coach, winning 10 games one of the years Eli was there, even at Duke where he took over a program that was much worse than UK under Joker, had won only 1 game the previous 3 season. It took him 3 years be he got them to a bowl, also won the Coastal division of the ACC and 10 games one year, which is quite an accomplishment at Duke. As others have already said its unfair to compare Stoops/Gran to Fulmer/Cutcliffe right now. Maybe in 2-3 years if UK puts back to back 10+ win seasons its a fair comparison, but right now the comparison is all one sided, zero wins or losses compared to multiple 10+ win seasons, SEC and NCs. There isn't really much to compare.

 

[SanAntonioCat_rivals376502]

You are right. It's way too soon. I prefer Gran to Dawson. But in fairness Stoops preferred Gran when he hired Dawson, but Gran wasn't available then. I think Stoops waited at least a year too long to hire a real quarterback position coach. No doubt, Hinshaw helped Barker in April. But I want to see how Gran game plans and calls plays in SEC games before I can say whether he is comparable to other SEC coordinators. I certainly hope so.

Eddie Gran and Darrin Hinshaw developed good to very good offenses at Auburn and UT. They will do the same at UK. Gran worked with Tommy Tuberville for years as well as Mark Stoops at his stops. The man is one of the game's best and most experienced offensive coordinators working with one of college football's best quarterback coaches. I have no hesitation whatsoever they will lead us to places we haven't experienced in decades.

 

[Robcatt24]

Not necessarily comparing accomplishments so much as the type of impact.

Do we think that Gran and Hinshaw can make the same kind of difference for Stoops that Cutcliffe and Sanders did for UT?

 

[SanAntonioCat_rivals376502]

Not necessarily comparing accomplishments so much as the type of impact.

Do we think that Gran and Hinshaw can make the same kind of difference for Stoops that Cutcliffe and Sanders did for UT?

Yes

 

[jauk11]

Yes

I agree, but we need to realize that TU started miles ahead of us in a lot of categories, facilities (now 42,000 bigger capacity), tradition (football only), etc etc and both they and Transfer U have a HUGE advantage in their expertise (and willingness) to cheat.

 

[ukalum1988]

Not necessarily comparing accomplishments so much as the type of impact.

Do we think that Gran and Hinshaw can make the same kind of difference for Stoops that Cutcliffe and Sanders did for UT?

On that I will agree. I think Gran & Hinshaw are a major coaching upgrade.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

Not necessarily comparing accomplishments so much as the type of impact.

Do we think that Gran and Hinshaw can make the same kind of difference for Stoops that Cutcliffe and Sanders did for UT?

Not sure you want the impact Sanders had, him becoming the OC was the beginning of the end for Fulmer and make no mistake With Cuttcliffe, Fulmer won 10+ games 5 of the previous 6 years, with Sanders he had 1 10 win season and I am not sure Sanders was still the OC, and a couple losing season. , Cutcliffe was always the qb coach, he was the reason Payton went to UT and Eli went to OM. Sanders has learned and improved, but he was't very good during his time at UT.

 

[Free_Salato_Blue]

Have to hand it to Cutcliffe he's made a 'basketball" school competitive with Division II facilities to begin with.
Fulmer took over a pretty good program with it's name and facilities. (except for the fugly orange)

 

[Blue Decade]

Eddie Gran and Darrin Hinshaw developed good to very good offenses at Auburn and UT. They will do the same at UK. Gran worked with Tommy Tuberville for years as well as Mark Stoops at his stops. The man is one of the game's best and most experienced offensive coordinators working with one of college football's best quarterback coaches. I have no hesitation whatsoever they will lead us to places we haven't experienced in decades.

The roster at Kentucky is not the same as the rosters at Auburn and UT. As I said several times, I like the hires of Gran and Hinshaw. But I won't assume Gran will lead Kentucky to places we haven't been in decades until I see how he recruits and develops his offensive system with the players on Kentucky's roster. The most frustrating thing I see here, over and over, is wild creation of grandiose expectations that can't possibly be fulfilled. Some people expect immediate miracles, and they never learn. When the miracles don't happen, then they unload on our coaches and want them fired. I have seen many cycles of this, and it really gets old. All I want from Gran is intelligent run-pass balance, refinements of our offensive coaching staff when necessary, and a rational recruiting approach to sign legitimate P5 offensive linemen and playmakers. If he does those things well, and if he develops his players wisely, then I'm happy with the hire. I'm not expecting an immediate rise to the top of the best football conference in the country, just a shrewd professional approach to things that will move our program gradually in that direction.

 

[SanAntonioCat_rivals376502]

The roster at Kentucky is not the same as the rosters at Auburn and UT. As I said several times, I like the hires of Gran and Hinshaw. But I won't assume Gran will lead Kentucky to places we haven't been in decades until I see how he recruits and develops his offensive system with the players on Kentucky's roster. The most frustrating thing I see here, over and over, is wild creation of grandiose expectations that can't possibly be fulfilled. Some people expect immediate miracles, and they never learn. When the miracles don't happen, then they unload on our coaches and want them fired. I have seen many cycles of this, and it really gets old. All I want from Gran is intelligent run-pass balance, refinements of our offensive coaching staff when necessary, and a rational recruiting approach to sign legitimate P5 offensive linemen and playmakers. If he does those things well, and if he develops his players wisely, then I'm happy with the hire. I'm not expecting an immediate rise to the top of the best football conference in the country, just a shrewd professional approach to things that will move our program gradually in that direction.

I agree with your analysis. Most of us don't expect miracles and certainly not an immediate championship caliber team. I do surmise most fans expect Mr. Gran and Mr. Hinshaw to have an offense that is prolific in their execution and prepared each and every week. In my opinion, they are worth 2+ wins more than any fan's prediction for this and future season.

 

[Blue Decade]

Most of us don't expect miracles and certainly not an immediate championship caliber team. I do surmise most fans expect Mr. Gran and Mr. Hinshaw to have an offense that is prolific in their execution and prepared each and every week.

With all due respect, you have contradicted yourself there. For Gran to produce prolific offensive execution each and every week in 2016 would be a miracle. And that's what I was talking about.

 

[BigBlueTuckian]

Apples and Oranges.

Fulmer had success before these guys. They were knocking on the East door but ran into the Florida buzz saw of the 1990s. In case anyone forgets, UT couldn't win the East because UF won 4 straight SEC titles and a national title.

Eventually UT broke through. UT also had exponentially more talent than UK (compare NFL drafts from 1995 to 2001) and QBs called Peyton Manning and Tee Martin. Barker will never approach the status of either one of them.

 

[Robcatt24]

Apples and Oranges.

Fulmer had success before these guys. They were knocking on the East door but ran into the Florida buzz saw of the 1990s. In case anyone forgets, UT couldn't win the East because UF won 4 straight SEC titles and a national title.

Eventually UT broke through. UT also had exponentially more talent than UK (compare NFL drafts from 1995 to 2001) and QBs called Peyton Manning and Tee Martin. Barker will never approach the status of either one of them.

Huh?

Fulmer became UT head coach in 1992. Cutcliffe had been on the UT staff since 1983.

Fulmer had zero success before Cutcliffe because Cutcliffe was already at UT.

When Cutcliffe left, the Tennessee program slipped. When Cutcliffe came back for a couple of seasons after leaving Ole Miss, the Vols rebounded somewhat. Then the year Cutcliffe left for Duke, UT crashed and Fulmer was fired.

In 2005, the year before Cutcliffe returned, UT went 5-6. In 2008, the first year after Cutcliffe left for Duke, UT went 5-7 and fired Fulmer.

Without Cutcliffe, Fulmer is Ron Zook. Great recruiter, mediocre coach.

 

[SanAntonioCat_rivals376502]

With all due respect, you have contradicted yourself there. For Gran to produce prolific offensive execution each and every week in 2016 would be a miracle. And that's what I was talking about.

You are correct. I meant to communicate Mr. Gran will have his offense prepared each week. Thanks for your insight.

 

[BigBlueTuckian]

Huh?

Fulmer became UT head coach in 1992. Cutcliffe had been on the UT staff since 1983.

Fulmer had zero success before Cutcliffe because Cutcliffe was already at UT.

When Cutcliffe left, the Tennessee program slipped. When Cutcliffe came back for a couple of seasons after leaving Ole Miss, the Vols rebounded somewhat. Then the year Cutcliffe left for Duke, UT crashed and Fulmer was fired.

In 2005, the year before Cutcliffe returned, UT went 5-6. In 2008, the first year after Cutcliffe left for Duke, UT went 5-7 and fired Fulmer.

Without Cutcliffe, Fulmer is Ron Zook. Great recruiter, mediocre coach.

Cutcliffe wasn't the OC when Fulmer was the OC. Yes their success is tied together, but it wasn't like Cutcliffe was the only reason that Fulmer ever went from OL coach to OC to HC. And even with Cutcliffe as OC, Tennessee still ran into that Florida buzz saw that kept them from winning championships, but they pretty much won every other game they played.

Again, comparing the two scenarios is pointless. Tennessee had a stacked roster throughout the 1990s. Defense played as much a part as Cutcliffe/Sanders did on offense. And we know very well what results you get when you have a powerful offense and no defense (see UK 1997-2000). As much potential as Gran/Hinshaw may have, things look the complete opposite on defenses as Stoops and Elliot have not done much on that side of the ball.

 

[Real Deal 2]

UT from late Johny Majors years and Cutcliffe years were as talented as any team in country for 15 year period. Cut left and UT was as talented in 98-2002, their talent pool was as good as any. Apples to Oranges.
Phil Fulmer was dominating Alabama and dominating recruiting. Fulmer is a top 10 all time recruiting head coach, he is on the Mt. Rushmore of last 25-30 years of recruiting head coaches. Mack Brown, Bowden, Fulmer, Pete Carroll and you can make claim that Saban is now atop this but make no mistake, UT and Fulmer were a recruiting juggernaut and were bringing and securing top 5 classes from everywhere.

The bottom line of living in Nashville for 25 years, the downfall of Fulmer's tenure was the loss of Cut. He could never replicate the offense, he could never find the discipline. They started recruiting more questionable players.
Sanders was a good RB coach and a good QB coach but not a great OC at that time.

UT could have won or played in 3 NC games, upset by LSU one year and blew a chance again. They were more talented than Fla most years but could not beat Spurrier.

The fact that UT had to recruit 80-85% of class from out of state killed them, 2-3 misses a season, academic failures, a couple of bad classes and you have no where to turn. Bama got better, Urban Meyer, Rodney Garner left, Cut left,

IMo

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

UT from late Johny Majors years and Cutcliffe years were as talented as any team in country for 15 year period. Cut left and UT was as talented in 98-2002, their talent pool was as good as any. Apples to Oranges.
Phil Fulmer was dominating Alabama and dominating recruiting. Fulmer is a top 10 all time recruiting head coach, he is on the Mt. Rushmore of last 25-30 years of recruiting head coaches. Mack Brown, Bowden, Fulmer, Pete Carroll and you can make claim that Saban is now atop this but make no mistake, UT and Fulmer were a recruiting juggernaut and were bringing and securing top 5 classes from everywhere.

The bottom line of living in Nashville for 25 years, the downfall of Fulmer's tenure was the loss of Cut. He could never replicate the offense, he could never find the discipline. They started recruiting more questionable players.
Sanders was a good RB coach and a good QB coach but not a great OC at that time.

UT could have won or played in 3 NC games, upset by LSU one year and blew a chance again. They were more talented than Fla most years but could not beat Spurrier.

The fact that UT had to recruit 80-85% of class from out of state killed them, 2-3 misses a season, academic failures, a couple of bad classes and you have no where to turn. Bama got better, Urban Meyer, Rodney Garner left, Cut left,

IMo

Garner left about the time UT won the NC, he was the only holdover from Donnan's staff when Richt too over, in fact I think he was at UGA in 98 and missed the NC, but many of the stars on that team were recruited by Garner. He was a good recruiter at UGA, but nothing special, coaches around Atlanta didn't like him in his later years at UGA. He was never anything special as a DL coach, still isn't.

 

[SanAntonioCat_rivals376502]

UT from late Johny Majors years and Cutcliffe years were as talented as any team in country for 15 year period. Cut left and UT was as talented in 98-2002, their talent pool was as good as any. Apples to Oranges.
Phil Fulmer was dominating Alabama and dominating recruiting. Fulmer is a top 10 all time recruiting head coach, he is on the Mt. Rushmore of last 25-30 years of recruiting head coaches. Mack Brown, Bowden, Fulmer, Pete Carroll and you can make claim that Saban is now atop this but make no mistake, UT and Fulmer were a recruiting juggernaut and were bringing and securing top 5 classes from everywhere.

The bottom line of living in Nashville for 25 years, the downfall of Fulmer's tenure was the loss of Cut. He could never replicate the offense, he could never find the discipline. They started recruiting more questionable players.
Sanders was a good RB coach and a good QB coach but not a great OC at that time.

UT could have won or played in 3 NC games, upset by LSU one year and blew a chance again. They were more talented than Fla most years but could not beat Spurrier.

The fact that UT had to recruit 80-85% of class from out of state killed them, 2-3 misses a season, academic failures, a couple of bad classes and you have no where to turn. Bama got better, Urban Meyer, Rodney Garner left, Cut left,

IMo

Great comments and very true. Similar situation with Mack Brown at Texas. Mack was a great recruiter, but not a great coach. He did, however, unite the fans, build the program, win a NC and create demand that expanded Royal Stadium to 100,000+ seats including fabulous suites and clubs.

 

[lz]

Probably the best thing that happened to Phat Phil financially was getting fired. He kept hoping to get a HC job after that, but raked in quite a bit of money as a Rainmaker for a Knoxville bank.

 

[CB3UK]

Most everything has already been covered, but yes, this is way way too early to make such a comparison. I'd love for this staff to pan out and have that kind of success, but you are putting the cart about 500 miles in front of the horse here OP.