Defending the results

[Tim1515]

I've heard a lot of outcry this morning about the officials. Part of that is that many were rooting for Wisc and in a few weeks no one will care and Duke will still be champions.

What sucks is that to much is focused around calls and I hate as a Duke fan having to discuss that over the great game. Yes there were bad calls against Duke...big ones too like Okafors 3rd and Winslows 2nd but being objective Wisc really had the worst of it...especially late.

Duke could've won without the few bad calls and that's what gets lost initially. i love the title and this team played great...I just really wish the calls were right...that's all

 

[BluePhil]

They lost because:



They could not stop Grayson and JonesThey could not take advantage of our two best players being on the bench for 4+ minutes late in the second halfAmile Jefferson played great D on Frank Kaminsky Our defense stepped up to the plate.
They need to defend their lack of execution. We have NOTHING to defend. Bad calls happen every game. I will agree I could not believe the Winslow out of bounds call. It should have been reversed. But it was not the factor. The factor was they were failing to execute even with our best players sitting out. There were bad calls both ways. Only a whiner blames the refs when their team was obviously no longer performing.

 

[Tim1515]

That's fine..but had this been any game but our own I guarentee most people on here would be having a fit.

We all cheer during games with blinders on for our own teams...I get it.

I don't want to get in a discussion about calls...but my feelings remain. I would've rather seen the results with better officiating. I still think Duke can win that game.

 

[Laettner]

The refs are not hired or paid by Duke so don't want to hear any conspiracy theory. Wiscy was the general public's favorite team so why would NCAA go out of its way to help Duke? Bad calls happen, just have to live with them.

Wiscy blew a 9 pt lead in 2nd half, championship teams don't do that.

 

[DukiesDohK]

Anytime your team loses you look for reasons that you can still believe they were the better team. The easiest way to do that is to blame the refs. We're all guilty of it. Wisky and Duke haters are doing it today. Kentucky did it. UNC does it before the game even starts.

Had the calls that went against Wisky late happened to Duke, I'd be doing it right now, no doubt. But with time I would be honest with myself and concede a lot of questionable/bad calls went both ways last night. Its the nature of the game.

In the end the best team won last night. PERIOD. End of discussion.

 

[dbav]

I don't feel the need to defend anything. The game was called the way it was called. Duke adjusted to it and generated foul calls. No one was outraged by the calls that went against us. What is there to defend? If Wisconsin wanted to win they could have played better.

 

[Mr Blue Devil]

My brother got SLAMMED on Twitter last night when he spoke about the poor officiating NOT deciding the outcome of the game.

He has always responded to EVERY Tweet and email within 72 hours for his entire social media career, which is simply amazing.

He just couldn't last night, so he wrote this today as a response.

To read some of the ridiculous tweets at him, check out www.twitter.com/alanstein as well.

Duke Won the game – Not the Refs

 

[DukeDenver]

Originally posted by Tim1515:
That's fine..but had this been any game but our own I guarentee most people on here would be having a fit.

We all cheer during games with blinders on for our own teams...I get it.

I don't want to get in a discussion about calls...but my feelings remain. I would've rather seen the results with better officiating. I still think Duke can win that game.

I agree with you, Tim. I feel like our closers would've won it anyway, but those bad calls make us even more hated and will convince others that we didn't earn it. They are wrong, but we still have to hear it.

 

[BluePhil]

Originally posted by Tim1515:
That's fine..but had this been any game but our own I guarentee most people on here would be having a fit.

We all cheer during games with blinders on for our own teams...I get it.

I don't want to get in a discussion about calls...but my feelings remain. I would've rather seen the results with better officiating. I still think Duke can win that game.

Meh. I can honestly say I wouldn't. There were bad calls both ways - like just about EVERY game I have ever seen. Late game bad calls are always the ones you remember the most. Not the ones early that sit a great player, not the ones that make a big point swing early. Just the late ones. It gives a team like Wiscy that could not execute crap in the last five minutes nothing more than an excuse to hang their hats.

I admit there was no excuse for not reversing the Winslow out of bounds. But there is even less excuse for not being able to take advantage when the opposing teams best players are out of the game for 4+ minutes late in the second. No excuse for the "Best" player in the nation not to be able to absolutely hammer a second stringer guarding him. No excuse for being a whining Ryan calling out K and his players when their house (when it comes to player graduations) is as crappy as they come.

You don't want a thread about refs but you come on here and accentuate the negative. Wisconsin DID NOT EXECUTE - DUKE DID. That is the story. Don't fall into the crap that the naysayers do because they need a scapegoat. If the roles were reversed K would not be a whiny little doggy.

That said I am done with any thread focusing on the negative. It truly is a shame that one call did not get reversed but they would have had to reverse the trend started by Grayso0n to stop us and that was not happening.

 

[JCColsCane]

Well, I'd like to say this about that, **** happens! I saw bad calls both ways and it happens in most games, in any sport. It's human nature, refs and umps are human.
But most of all, the best team won last night, and Duke is the 2015 National Champion!!
Go Duke!!


JC-OFC

 

[Tim1515]

I have a feeling if I looked back through the threads during the UK/Wisc game I might find some conflicting arguments to the ones on here...likely by the same people.

again Duke is champion and in a week no one will care about anything else...including me. There is so much to like about this team and these players...just wish they were getting the credit they deserve instead of diluting it even just a little by a bad stretch from the officials that anyone not rooting for Duke saw.

 

[HuffyJB]

To the best of my knowledge, it wasn't the refs fault that Kaminsky, Hayes, and Koening all missed shots in the paint down the stretch, or that Dekker was 0-6 on 3s (with two airballs), or that Grayson was unguardable for a stretch, or that Tyus is a stone cold killer who hit big shot after big shot in the last four minutes. Let whiners whine, I'll be online shopping for 2015 National Championship gear!

 

[Devilicious]

Originally posted by Tim1515:
I have a feeling if I looked back through the threads during the UK/Wisc game I might find some conflicting arguments to the ones on here...likely by the same people.

again Duke is champion and in a week no one will care about anything else...including me. There is so much to like about this team and these players...just wish they were getting the credit they deserve instead of diluting it even just a little by a bad stretch from the officials that anyone not rooting for Duke saw.

I'm sure Wisconsin would've like to see the outcome of the game had they done better than 2-9 from the floor to end the game or Dekkar not disappear in the second half...

 

[Mpm277]

This is all kind of stupid, imo. Duke benefited from some calls, yes. To review the play on Winslow touching the ball last before it goes out of bounds and then NOT get the call correct is sort of mind-blowing. The other big call people are crying about is Winslow's foot being on the line in the play before that. That one I can let slide because pictures show it was *incredibly* close and that would have been very hard to get right in live action.

However, no one is talking about the ridiculous fouls on Winslow and Jah. I'm not saying all of them were bad calls, but Winslow's 3rd and 4th, and Jah's 2nd and 3rd were extremely suspect (if I'm remember the which fouls correctly). What about Koenig blatantly holding Quinn's arm when they were chasing the loose ball at half court? What about Winslow getting hacked the entire game? What about Wisconsin having TWO fouls the entire first half?

Bad calls are simply part of the game and they happen to every team in every game.

I say this is all stupid because it could have been a perfectly refereed game, and Duke still would have "got away with all the calls". It's just the culture of college basketball to hate Duke and believe every call goes their way.

What this game came down to was not the refs. It was our guard play, ignited by a freshman off the bench that they didn't know what to do with, and then fueled and closed by Tyus (anyone surprised with that? No? Me either). Plus, Wisconsin couldn't make plays and hit a shot the last ten minutes of the second half. And Duke could. Duke made plays when Wisconsin couldn't. Simple as that.

 

[HeLooks2MuchLikeDave]

A lot of people on here were complaining about the refs on the game thread at halftime. Can't deny it. But we got the benefit of the doubt because we drove to the hoop and sought contact. Great 2nd half game plan. There were 3 bad calls in Duke's favor, but I thought the worst was the block Winslow picked up that should've been a charge and his 4th right after Jah went out with 4. I am happy we got those calls because we might not have won otherwise!! I also LOVE how crazy it makes UNC fans get. I was kinda hoping for a controversial call just so I could go read their boards. I love the narrative that there is a conspiracy among the refs (for whatever reason) to make sure Duke wins. It just confirms how truly stupid people are that post that nonsense.

 

[aah555]

Yes, the officiating last night was no worse than the officiating throughout the tournament. On Saturday, Wisconsin benefited from officiating mistakes (Nigel Hayes shot a full second after the shot clock expired), and last night it had a couple tough calls late -- even though there were plenty to quibble about going in their own direction.

I would love to have a perfectly officiated game, but anyone who's complaining about it simply does not like the result. If Wisconsin were the better team last night, they would have fought through whatever calls they're complaining about.

 

[OldasdirtDevil]

Duke is the champion. Are we experiencing Duke guilt? 'Cause I'm not. We beat the hell out of MSU, but Izzo whined about the officiating...so no matter how much we win by, or how many #1 seeds we beat...it's always going to be that Duke was gifted with calls, or the easier road. Wisconsin shot 22 fts vs Kentucky's 10, but did anyone complain about that (other than UK fans). Duke played through the bad calls it received and grabbed the game by the neck and took it away from the Badgers, while Bo and his Beggars whined, and complained without making any adjustments to stop Grayson and Tyus. That's why K is the G.O.A.T., and Bo is a goat.
Congrats to Duke on a great season, and NCAA run for the championship. I'm loving every minute of it.

OFC

 

[Willcampbell]

After the Sparty game on Saturday, Izzo opined that the game was called tightly (too many fouls). Now Ryan complains it was called too loosely. Hello? The SAME REFS did both games!!
And Izzo wasn't whining like Ryan, just offering an observation. Which is why Izzo is a great coach and Ryan is a crybaby.
Gee whiz, we're tho thorry we touched you big boys from the rough, tough Big10 tho much. Our bad.
OFC

 

[SWEc/o95]

Tim it isn't only this game. Duke fans have to hear about officiating showing favoritism during every game no matter the opponent. Doesn't matter if we win by 20, 30 or 1 point. They always seem to pick out one call in the game that was the so called "turning point" of the game. Every single game. They always ***** about hand checking when they are completely blind their players do the SAME DAMN THING. They only see what they want to see. Which is why all the haters thought the first half was called fairly. But if it was their team driving the lane for 20 minutes and only getting 2 fouls called they would be up in arms. I thought we finally got the foul calls we deserved in the second half that we should have gotten in the first. We only went to the line 2 more times than the first time we faced them. Wisconsin actually had less fouls this game than the first time we faced them if I remember correctly.

Was that ball off of Winslow? Absolutely. But the head of officials stated today that the refs DID NOT have the same replay that we had last night. That was the only one you could without a doubt say touched his hand. You want to ***** about that take it up with whoever is in charge with replay.

 

[Showenuff]

This thread is hilarious. If you feel guilty over two BS CALLS , maybe basketball is not for you. Some of you are victims of Duke hatred and let it get to you. Yes, bad call, Winslows foot was grazing the end line. Yes , Winslows finger tip touched the ball. The ref did not call that foot barely touching the line. Why? Because he didn't see it like we saw it from a camera mounted to the backboard shooting straight down. Wisconsin fans want to cry about a call, you know kinda like the BS call that won the game for them vs Kentucky, 2 points after the shot clock violation. Rivals, including us only see the fouls they want to see. Nobody's crying about the 3 Quinn shot and got mugged on. Okafors 3rd foul on Kaminsky was the biggest bs call ever. so clean it's pitiful. Quinn's layup at the 12:15 mark, Hayes hit his arm so hard it flew up and bounced on top of the backboard. Are you telling me QUINN just shot it that bad? LOL. A team whines about fouls while our 2 best players spent half the frigging game on the bench with foul trouble. Cry me a friggin river you whiny bastards, I'm tired of Duke never winning a game, it's always the refs. Stick that in your collective asses. We won that game. With heart. With a will to win from an unsuspecting freshmen. They wrote this team off every single game in this tourney, now everybody who isn't a Duke fan has their hate hat on. Hate on MF'rs, WE ARE THE 5 TIME NATIONAL CHAMPIONS ! BLAME IT ON WHATEVER MAKES YOU FEEL GOOD ! GO DUKE!

 

[OldasdirtDevil]

Originally posted by Showenuff:
This thread is hilarious. If you feel guilty over two BS CALLS , maybe basketball is not for you. Some of you are victims of Duke hatred and let it get to you. Yes, bad call, Winslows foot was grazing the end line. Yes , Winslows finger tip touched the ball. The ref did not call that foot barely touching the line. Why? Because he didn't see it like we saw it from a camera mounted to the backboard shooting straight down. Wisconsin fans want to cry about a call, you know kinda like the BS call that won the game for them vs Kentucky, 2 points after the shot clock violation. Rivals, including us only see the fouls they want to see. Nobody's crying about the 3 Quinn shot and got mugged on. Okafors 3rd foul on Kaminsky was the biggest bs call ever. so clean it's pitiful. Quinn's layup at the 12:15 mark, Hayes hit his arm so hard it flew up and bounced on top of the backboard. Are you telling me QUINN just shot it that bad? LOL. A team whines about fouls while our 2 best players spent half the frigging game on the bench with foul trouble. Cry me a friggin river you whiny bastards, I'm tired of Duke never winning a game, it's always the refs. Stick that in your collective asses. We won that game. With heart. With a will to win from an unsuspecting freshmen. They wrote this team off every single game in this tourney, now everybody who isn't a Duke fan has their hate hat on. Hate on MF'rs, WE ARE THE 5 TIME NATIONAL CHAMPIONS ! BLAME IT ON WHATEVER MAKES YOU FEEL GOOD ! GO DUKE!

Hell yeah, Show! Now that's a friggin' slam dunk of a post that even Justise can't top!!!

OFC

 

[Tim1515]

It wasn't two BS calls...it was a handful all at the end. Whatever though...I do nothing but support our players and coaches every freakin year and I can't get people to actually read my post and take a minute to think about my point that these players and coaches aren't getting their due because of a handful of bad calls.

I get that most of you think you don't care that everyone hates Duke...but we think that because K wins anyway. K has put a ton of effort into changing perception which had a very real impact in winning this championship. When K is gone...that hate could have a direct result on the players Duke can land and therefore our success.

 

[Showenuff]

So 4 calls ? 5? And all the calls against us were all right? And all the no calls against us were all correct? Talk real talk son. Don't get mad. I'm not arguing the calls they were wrong. Im saying it goes both ways, and nobody sees the others.

 

[Showenuff]

And you are wrong. I do read your posts, many are awesome.

 

[OldasdirtDevil]

Originally posted by Tim1515:
It wasn't two BS calls...it was a handful all at the end. Whatever though...I do nothing but support our players and coaches every freakin year and I can't get people to actually read my post and take a minute to think about my point that these players and coaches aren't getting their due because of a handful of bad calls.

I get that most of you think you don't care that everyone hates Duke...but we think that because K wins anyway. K has put a ton of effort into changing perception which had a very real impact in winning this championship. When K is gone...that hate could have a direct result on the players Duke can land and therefore our success.

Tim, I think you're an excellent poster, but I just don't agree with you...and I've read your posts in this thread. You've got the right to post how you feel, but we also have the right to respond. Calls or no calls, all teams have to deal with them, and play through them the best they can. It's always been this way. But I can't remember hardly a Duke game (especially important ones) that there isn't articles, or fans complaining about Duke getting all the calls, and it's frankly getting a damn bit old. We can't control the hate, but we can enjoy our success.

OFC
This post was edited on 4/7 4:12 PM by OldasdirtDevil

 

[BluePhil]

Heard John Adams interviewed today. Coordinator of officials.

He said that the refs did not see what we saw in the Winslow out of bounds replays. There was never a thought to review after the two players had their hands on the ball. They determined that was too close to call because they never played it far enough through at all angles because all three refs and table ref thought the call was where the ball was originally knocked from Winslow.

John Adams went on to say that he saw it right after the refs made call/walked away. He thought about having the buzzer sounded and having them re review but believed it needed to be left to the floor refs because it would be interjecting him into the game in a way he has never done in his tenure.

 

[BOOGIEMAN1914]

well that may clear up what the refs were looking at.......the two calls in question...the foot out, it happened so fast the ref didnt see it...he couldnt see the whole thing, but he had to see hayes bodying winslow out....we saw the foot out because of replay.....on the other koening could have been called for a foul as winslow had two hands on the ball...koening one and wacked winslow twice....so to me the two calls that got a lot of scrutiny imo should of had a foul called on wisky before they happened

 

[Showenuff]

You guys are crazy, everybody knows Wisconsin doesn't foul.

 

[HuffyJB]

Originally posted by Showenuff:
This thread is hilarious. If you feel guilty over two BS CALLS , maybe basketball is not for you. Some of you are victims of Duke hatred and let it get to you. Yes, bad call, Winslows foot was grazing the end line. Yes , Winslows finger tip touched the ball. The ref did not call that foot barely touching the line. Why? Because he didn't see it like we saw it from a camera mounted to the backboard shooting straight down. Wisconsin fans want to cry about a call, you know kinda like the BS call that won the game for them vs Kentucky, 2 points after the shot clock violation. Rivals, including us only see the fouls they want to see. Nobody's crying about the 3 Quinn shot and got mugged on. Okafors 3rd foul on Kaminsky was the biggest bs call ever. so clean it's pitiful. Quinn's layup at the 12:15 mark, Hayes hit his arm so hard it flew up and bounced on top of the backboard. Are you telling me QUINN just shot it that bad? LOL. A team whines about fouls while our 2 best players spent half the frigging game on the bench with foul trouble. Cry me a friggin river you whiny bastards, I'm tired of Duke never winning a game, it's always the refs. Stick that in your collective asses. We won that game. With heart. With a will to win from an unsuspecting freshmen. They wrote this team off every single game in this tourney, now everybody who isn't a Duke fan has their hate hat on. Hate on MF'rs, WE ARE THE 5 TIME NATIONAL CHAMPIONS ! BLAME IT ON WHATEVER MAKES YOU FEEL GOOD ! GO DUKE!

Boom.

 

[DukeDenver]

Hey Show! Are you enjoying this day as much as I am? The hate sustains me brother.

 

[Showenuff]

I am ranked in the top 3 percentile of happiest men on the planet today. The Tar Heel Tears taste like Kool Aid.

 

[tedmon23]

pretty simple to me you're up 9. 13 or so to go veteran squad Duke's two best players in foul trouble and you can't stop the 8th man on the team. You choked players and coaches this moment was just too big for them but apparently it is easier to blame the refs than to admit it.

 

[Gator Chef Al]

No offense but I hate this thread and topic. I've been listening to it all day on the radio as well along with my 5 hour drive home last night from the game. Duke does not need to defend anything. Duke is the national champions end of story. So what people are complaining about 3 calls? What about the flop that gave Jah his first foul? Or the play where the guy had his a** in winslows chest and justice for called for a block? Point is there are always bad calls. Duke had the best defense in the tournament, does anyone think that's why we held them to 63 points? Not because the refs gave us the game. We won, were the champs, let everyone else whine, it's music to my ears. The only thing I hate is people saying Duke was handed this, this team earned every bit of what they got and I'm glad we all got to come along for the ride.

 

[mo.st.dukie]

Name me a single sporting event in history that had perfect officiating.

Officials getting calls wrong or missing calls is as much a part of sports as players missing shots or committing turnovers. It's why we love sports, it's pure human. People forget this fact. Never will officials get every single call right in a game, especially in basketball where the action is fast and so many of the rules and calls can be subjective.

And the reality is that is the roles were reversed nobody in the country except Duke fans would be complaining that Wisconsin got the benefit of some calls. None of the media were talking about that obvious shot clock violation in Wisconsin's semi-final game and the reason is that they all wanted Wisconsin to win so they brush that off. And of course they don't want to talk about how Wisconsin had a 9 point lead with Duke's two best players in major foul trouble and Wisconsin still couldn't close the deal.

Duke beat Wisconsin twice, on the road both times. Duke had more wins against the final Coaches top 25 than any other team and more wins against the final top 10. Duke deserved this title and anybody who says otherwise is only saying that because they wanted to see Duke lose.

This post was edited on 4/7 10:15 PM by mo.st.dukie

 

[barkingpumpkin]

Originally posted by Showenuff:
This thread is hilarious. If you feel guilty over two BS CALLS , maybe basketball is not for you. Some of you are victims of Duke hatred and let it get to you. Yes, bad call, Winslows foot was grazing the end line. Yes , Winslows finger tip touched the ball. The ref did not call that foot barely touching the line. Why? Because he didn't see it like we saw it from a camera mounted to the backboard shooting straight down. Wisconsin fans want to cry about a call, you know kinda like the BS call that won the game for them vs Kentucky, 2 points after the shot clock violation. Rivals, including us only see the fouls they want to see. Nobody's crying about the 3 Quinn shot and got mugged on. Okafors 3rd foul on Kaminsky was the biggest bs call ever. so clean it's pitiful. Quinn's layup at the 12:15 mark, Hayes hit his arm so hard it flew up and bounced on top of the backboard. Are you telling me QUINN just shot it that bad? LOL. A team whines about fouls while our 2 best players spent half the frigging game on the bench with foul trouble. Cry me a friggin river you whiny bastards, I'm tired of Duke never winning a game, it's always the refs. Stick that in your collective asses. We won that game. With heart. With a will to win from an unsuspecting freshmen. They wrote this team off every single game in this tourney, now everybody who isn't a Duke fan has their hate hat on. Hate on MF'rs, WE ARE THE 5 TIME NATIONAL CHAMPIONS ! BLAME IT ON WHATEVER MAKES YOU FEEL GOOD ! GO DUKE!

I'll admit I haven't watched the replay, but on the play where justise stepped out, my buddy and I were screaming for a foul because Hayes bodied Winslow from the foul line to the baseline. Unless I was imagining it, there should've been a block called on that play well before Winslow stepped out. Maybe I'm crazy because I haven't seen anyone mention it.

 

[crazyduke3]

Tim I like your post and your a good poster here.....


but let's be very clear about something; you don't have to defend anything.


We absolutely do not have to defend the worthiness of our championship to any human ever. Either they accept it or they don't. If they don't, guess what? We are still champions regardless!

Look we got some favorable calls. But you KNOW Wisky got help in the first half also.

4 fouls with 9 minutes left in the game on the ACC POY and they were up 9. They still could NOT beat us. That is because we were the better team.



I am very proud of our boys and I won't defend last nights game to anybody; it defends itself if you have a brain.

 

[mrchmadness23]

If it weren't for a couple bad calls late in the semi final game, we would have played Kentucky.

 

[Tim1515]

This is my last post on the topic but I feel my point continues to be made on the radio and TV for me. First topic on every show I saw was about the refs. Even this morning the only topic I heard about the men's title game was about the refs.

We won the title...that's awesome and as fans that's the bottom line...maybe it doesn't matter that our players are largely being ignored (outside of Allen apparently) for how good they played. These players had an Amazing tournament. Individually and as a team...they were the best team in the tournament...but all anyone remembers outside of Duke is that Wisc got screwed...that sucks.

 

[Showenuff]

Haha, you remember that way, it's your choice. Did you see the article from the refs? They don't see what TV see's bud. We are hated by many, get use to it. Always drama, cause we are always winning. Like the guy above said if it weren't for a couple calls we'd have played Kentucky.

 

[madrussian]

Winslow out of bounds play.

I have reviewed high def views. not one shows DEFINITIVE evidence to overturn the call. if you review closely you will see that the ball rotation does not change at all. also the path of the ball does not change. if winslow touched this it would slow down or speed up the ball rotation and change the path of the ball.

The only thing you can say for certain is that his finger is close. the refs made the correct call based on how it was called on the floor.

Look, if you can't tell with 20 different high def looks - then you can't tell.

Look guys stepping on the end line, bang bang charge block calls, potentially missed out of bounds plays - those happen all the time in the ncaa. they happen all year long.

get over it.

when you lose and complain about the refs you are a loser. you never hear K complain about the refs after Duke loses. only complementing the other team and coaches.

but thats what a class organization does.

i didn't hear wisconsin complaining about the refs when they had a clear shot clock violation against KY that tied the game.
i didn't hear wisconsin complaining when their player didn't re-establish position and got a layup against KY.

bang bang out of bounds plays are missed all the time. all the time.
This post was edited on 4/8 10:38 AM by madrussian