FB expectations without hunter johnson

[haywood jahblowme]

if the school removed hunter johnson from the football team tomorrow, it would be about the same timeline as lathon getting revoked for basketball. 3 months or so before official practice starts

i think the expectations would change very much for football even with green as the back-up who played significant minutes

hard to think anything different with this squad losing a 30 min a game primary ball handler

 

[rwhitney014]

There was a ton of consternation on the board about the QB situation at the time prior to landing Johnson. Fitz and McCall were taking plenty of heat. I think the zeitgeist was pretty similar, except Fitz managed to stave it off, at least from where we sit today and if Hunter stays healthy, and so far Collins hasn't.

Let's see what fixes Collins comes up with, whether because Greer develops, Buie comes in and hits, Ash comes back and steadies things a little, or a player not currently in the program arrives and is able to make a difference.

 

[torque-cat]

if the school removed hunter johnson from the football team tomorrow, it would be about the same timeline as lathon getting revoked for basketball. 3 months or so before official practice starts

i think the expectations would change very much for football even with green as the back-up who played significant minutes

hard to think anything different with this squad losing a 30 min a game primary ball handler

Well we are comparing a 5 star QB recruit ranked #1-2 in the country, already showed promise at powerhouse Clemson as a true frosh and will be RS Soph with 8 months in the NU system. We'd be comparing that to a top 150 BB recruit, true frosh, a few months out of high school who has so far proven to be an average player on a very bad non-power 5 team.

I think what's true is that the QB position, perhaps like PG, is always tenuous because 1 player usually dominates minutes and kids don't want to sit on the bench. However, I see little reason to believe that Lathon would have been a difference-maker this year. An average frosh PG on a bad team equates to a well below average/not ready PG in the extremely tough, physical big ten.

 

[Pukecat]

if the school removed hunter johnson from the football team tomorrow, it would be about the same timeline as lathon getting revoked for basketball. 3 months or so before official practice starts

i think the expectations would change very much for football even with green as the back-up who played significant minutes

hard to think anything different with this squad losing a 30 min a game primary ball handler

Expectations for football would be lower without Johnson, but football is in much better shape. Our young QBs have not panned out, but at least there is one in every class. Except for Ash, we had no point guards before Greer signed on. Collins should not have let it get to this point.

 

[DaCat]

I think what's true is that the QB position, perhaps like PG, is always tenuous because 1 player usually dominates minutes and kids don't want to sit on the bench. However, I see little reason to believe that Lathon would have been a difference-maker this year. An average frosh PG on a bad team equates to a well below average/not ready PG in the extremely tough, physical big ten.

To play the contrarian, even if Lathon is an average PG, I don't think this is a bad team. The pieces just don't fit that well at the moment, but look at the dynamics if Lathon were on the team:

LG - Lathon
Wing - Turner
Wing - Taylor
Wing - Law
Big - Pardon

Then you would have Gaines, Kopp, Nance, Falzon, Benson coming off the bench. Lathon wouldn't have to carry a scoring burden, he just would need to distribute to the others and chip in with key baskets. With Lathon, I think we would've won 3 to 4 more games so far.

 

[hdhntr1]

Well we are comparing a 5 star QB recruit ranked #1-2 in the country, already showed promise at powerhouse Clemson as a true frosh and will be RS Soph with 8 months in the NU system. We'd be comparing that to a top 150 BB recruit, true frosh, a few months out of high school who has so far proven to be an average player on a very bad non-power 5 team.

I think what's true is that the QB position, perhaps like PG, is always tenuous because 1 player usually dominates minutes and kids don't want to sit on the bench. However, I see little reason to believe that Lathon would have been a difference-maker this year. An average frosh PG on a bad team equates to a well below average/not ready PG in the extremely tough, physical big ten.

But what we have now is not average. Lathon was being brought in to take the reigns and his further development would have started in HS. When we pulled the plug, instead of working with the staff to get ready, he went back into the being recruited role and that further development stopped. It took several months for him to get on with that other program. Even so he is playing close to 35 mpg so he is doing something right. And being a good PG has a lot to do with what is surrounding you.

My guess is that he would have been a lot better than what we have had and likely could have helped a lot it all those close games we ended up on the losing end

 

[torque-cat]

To play the contrarian, even if Lathon is an average PG, I don't think this is a bad team. The pieces just don't fit that well at the moment, but look at the dynamics if Lathon were on the team:

LG - Lathon
Wing - Turner
Wing - Taylor
Wing - Law
Big - Pardon

Then you would have Gaines, Kopp, Nance, Falzon, Benson coming off the bench. Lathon wouldn't have to carry a scoring burden, he just would need to distribute to the others and chip in with key baskets. With Lathon, I think we would've won 3 to 4 more games so far.

Greer could easily be a solid player at UTEP. He could also handle the point and distribute. No evidence that Lathon would be better just assumptions based on what? Kopp and Nance were much more highly rated and struggled to adjust. Why would Lathon be more comfortable at this level that those guys?

 

[DaCat]

Greer could easily be a solid player at UTEP. He could also handle the point and distribute. No evidence that Lathon would be better just assumptions based on what? Kopp and Nance were much more highly rated and struggled to adjust. Why would Lathon be more comfortable at this level that those guys?

You make a valid point, however there is evidence that Lathon has some skills that Greer has not yet shown, namely a huge game against a ranked team (Marquette). Perhaps with a different coaching staff and teammates, Lathon could've been a bigger contributor. I guess we'll never know, and we need to move on.

 

[torque-cat]

You make a valid point, however there is evidence that Lathon has some skills that Greer has not yet shown, namely a huge game against a ranked team (Marquette). Perhaps with a different coaching staff and teammates, Lathon could've been a bigger contributor. I guess we'll never know, and we need to move on.

Exactly. We have no idea how Lathon would’ve done here. Time to move on

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Greer could easily be a solid player at UTEP. He could also handle the point and distribute. No evidence that Lathon would be better just assumptions based on what? Kopp and Nance were much more highly rated and struggled to adjust. Why would Lathon be more comfortable at this level that those guys?

Lathon averages 30 minutes and 10 points a game. Yes it’s not the Big Ten, but is reasonable to think in NU’s situation Lathon could have averaged at least 20 minutes and 6 points. Yes this is an assumption, but so is the view that he wouldn’t make a difference. NU lost a lot of winnable games early. It seems their confidence is shot now, but turning a few of those games into wins would have changed momentum. There is a fine line between being a tourney contender and a team coming off the rails. One glaring hole can cause the later.

 

[eastbaycat99]

Johnson has spent a year at NU and has a brother who was a walk on who played for Fitz. Lathon is not analogous in any way. Johnson was at the very top of the recruiting board his senior year of HS while Lathon was highly regarded but several steps down. Fitz has several scholarship QBs who could step in, and the team he has built would probably have a winning record in conference if one of them or Green played QB next year.

 

[JournCat]

Lathon averages 30 minutes and 10 points a game. Yes it’s not the Big Ten, but is reasonable to think in NU’s situation Lathon could have averaged at least 20 minutes and 6 points. Yes this is an assumption, but so is the view that he wouldn’t make a difference. NU lost a lot of winnable games early. It seems their confidence is shot now, but turning a few of those games into wins would have changed momentum. There is a fine line between being a tourney contender and a team coming off the rails. One glaring hole can cause the later.

Look no further than this year’s team for the dangers of trying to project how a player on one team would do in a tougher conference or a different role.

 

[haywood jahblowme]

Johnson has spent a year at NU and has a brother who was a walk on who played for Fitz. Lathon is not analogous in any way. Johnson was at the very top of the recruiting board his senior year of HS while Lathon was highly regarded but several steps down. Fitz has several scholarship QBs who could step in, and the team he has built would probably have a winning record in conference if one of them or Green played QB next year.

youre digging in too much.

its comparable because of the timing prior to season and the importance of the position and amount of time making decisions with the ball.

 

[Titanium999]

There was a ton of consternation on the board about the QB situation at the time prior to landing Johnson. Fitz and McCall were taking plenty of heat. I think the zeitgeist was pretty similar, except Fitz managed to stave it off, at least from where we sit today and if Hunter stays healthy, and so far Collins hasn't.

Let's see what fixes Collins comes up with, whether because Greer develops, Buie comes in and hits, Ash comes back and steadies things a little, or a player not currently in the program arrives and is able to make a difference.

We lost our identity when Ash got hurt and were never the same! Jordan Ash was easily our best defensive player.

 

[torque-cat]

youre digging in too much.

its comparable because of the timing prior to season and the importance of the position and amount of time making decisions with the ball.

I agree it's similar in that recruiting for PG is sort of like QB. It's the guy who makes the offense go and usually only one gets significant playing time. At almost any other position there are ways to get talented guys on the court/field so it's tough to get depth. Football did luck out a bit with Hunter and teams need some luck to keep the QB position deep given that a lot of guys will transfer out to get PT.

 

[eastbaycat99]

youre digging in too much.

its comparable because of the timing prior to season and the importance of the position and amount of time making decisions with the ball.

And if the meteor had not hit the earth there would be dinosaurs.

Johnson was in the program for a year with two other scholarship QBs on board. Lathon had not matriculated and there was no other point guard on scholarship.

This is a ridiculous thread.

 

[NUCat320]

If Hunter won the lottery and left Northwestern, there would still be three guys who had played the position and earned a D1 scholarship for their skill ready to step in.

 

[eastbaycat99]

Actually, the scenario happened in football. In 1995, Lloyd Abraham, Gary Barnett’s prized, program changer QB recruit left after spring practice. Since the football team had 4 scholarship quarterbacks, there was a competition and lightly regarded Steve Schnur was named starter. Gee, they went undefeated in conference, went to the Rose Bowl and the next year he was named 1st team all conference.

 

[haywood jahblowme]

We lost our identity when Ash got hurt and were never the same! Jordan Ash was easily our best defensive player.

If Hunter won the lottery and left Northwestern, there would still be three guys who had played the position and earned a D1 scholarship for their skill ready to step in.

we had ash. he was out this summer with a knee and never recoverd. he would be the back-up guy.

lathon was going to be a 30 min a game ball handler like mcintosh was. ash would have been the back-up

 

[Gocatsgo2003]

We lost our identity when Ash got hurt and were never the same! Jordan Ash was easily our best defensive player.

This seriously isn't funny (never really was) and is pretty much only doing a disservice to a high-quality kid who's fought through some injuries.

Just, please, stop. Please.

 

[freewillie07]

This seriously isn't funny (never really was) and is pretty much only doing a disservice to a high-quality kid who's fought through some injuries.

Just, please, stop. Please.

You really ought to ignore. I use it sparingly but it makes this board much, much more tolerable.

 

[Hans_rivals316875]

if the school removed hunter johnson from the football team tomorrow, it would be about the same timeline as lathon getting revoked for basketball. 3 months or so before official practice starts

i think the expectations would change very much for football even with green as the back-up who played significant minutes

hard to think anything different with this squad losing a 30 min a game primary ball handler

Fair enough, but shouldn’t the timing have been a Lathon Type recruit during BMac’s junior year? From what I have read time and again the most important 2 positions to fill are PG followed narrowly by C. We were too late filling the PG need and I’m really hoping CCC got it right on Young. Timing needs to be considered for the most critical positions. I’m sure it’s easier said than done and I realize that the Lathon situation sucks and you cant put that on the coaches. I still feel like there should have been emphasis earlier and it all points back to Gaines’ class.

 

[torque-cat]

Fair enough, but shouldn’t the timing have been a Lathon Type recruit during BMac’s junior year? From what I have read time and again the most important 2 positions to fill are PG followed narrowly by C. We were too late filling the PG need and I’m really hoping CCC got it right on Young. Timing needs to be considered for the most critical positions. I’m sure it’s easier said than done and I realize that the Lathon situation sucks and you cant put that on the coaches. I still feel like there should have been emphasis earlier and it all points back to Gaines’ class.

Football has 85 scholarships, much easier to have extra QBs on roster. Much less room for error in b-ball scholars as there are so few per class.

 

[SimpsonElmwood]

Football has 85 scholarships, much easier to have extra QBs on roster. Much less room for error in b-ball scholars as there are so few per class.

We save the extras in case the NCAA changes the rules and allows for stockpiling.

 

[willycat]

If Hunter won the lottery and left Northwestern, there would still be three guys who had played the position and earned a D1 scholarship for their skill ready to step in.

Really? How many minutes played did those three get last season. Seem to remember a walk-on was the 2nd string QB, right?

 

[willycat]

We lost our identity when Ash got hurt and were never the same! Jordan Ash was easily our best defensive player.

Time for IGNORE!

 

[Hans_rivals316875]

Football has 85 scholarships, much easier to have extra QBs on roster. Much less room for error in b-ball scholars as there are so few per class.

I’m not trying to compare against football, totally different job and an apples to bitches comparison. Doesn’t make sense nor am I saying it isn’t a difficult job. I like the talent level (sometimes not the evaluation) and I did see it in Lathon for the limited clips and from what I’ve read. Some of the others I question. In any case as it stands next year is looking challenging to say the least, we’ve got it all riding on Young and Buie, even if Boo turns out to be anything near Tailor Battle we’re going to be picked dead last by most.

 

[IGNORE]

we had ash. he was out this summer with a knee and never recoverd. he would be the back-up guy.

lathon was going to be a 30 min a game ball handler like mcintosh was. ash would have been the back-up

Ash was not, is not, never has been a serviceable B1G PG. He was a quick reach recruit while CCC was starting out. Should have been recruited over long ago.

 

[IGNORE]

Football has 85 scholarships, much easier to have extra QBs on roster. Much less room for error in b-ball scholars as there are so few per class.

Relevant if we haven’t had an unused schollie for almost ever. That open seat was available last year too. Looking like next year, there might be two empties. Probably award to Hall and Malnati as they have demonstrated such high value...