FC/OT: Sign stealing - Arkansas DC perspective…
- Thread starter Midnighter
- Start date
Yes, legal sign stealing is super common. There is nothing against the rules about trying to understand signals from TV or live from the opposite sideline. This was known and discussed ad nauseum last year. Of course we all know that Michigan took it further, and did things that were blatantly prohibited per the rules, and deserves whatever punishment they receive.
He also mentions teams sharing signal knowledge. Michigan looks terrible because of how much they’re pushing back but this really is a big nothing burger.
It is not a "nothing burger". They were doing on site/in person sign stealing via video/scouting prior to playing opponents. That is not the same as what occurs while actually playing a game (real time). Michigan was doing it weeks in advance, developed their cheat sheets and placed Stalions right next to UM coaches during Michigan games with his book of signals. It gave them a competitive advantage.
The only foul is ‘on site’ - again, everyone steals signals. As a coach you have a duty to change them week to week. It’s not hard. This coach admitted as much. Excited for all the evidence the NCAA has - it’s their duty to prove Michigan cheated and they’re far from it.
I’m going to guess that getting your staffer to scout future opponents at another school while trying to deceive everyone by standing on the sideline in that other school’s coaching gear is one of those things that crosses the line.
I’m going to guess that getting your staffer to scout future opponents at another school while trying to deceive everyone by standing on the sideline in that other school’s coaching gear is one of those things that crosses the line.
Ehhhh…..ok. Again, will believe it when I see it.
They're going to hammer Michigan. They had to change the rules to allow helmet communication for this season because of them. It was "gamesmanship" before that garbage they pulled. That shìt is over now unless teams try to scramble the helmet feed like the dirt bag Patriots do at Gillette.
I don’t see it. The number of coaches and players taking about how normal this is versus those saying the opposite is staggering. And it’s Michigan . They will never allow anything more than a couple of suspensions if anything. People hate it but Michigan was well coached and had the right combination of talent and put it together when it mattered. That they could run over and over to beat Penn State, and then beat OSU, Alabama, and Washington with all eyes on them says everything. The rule to ‘not’ allow in person scouting was installed because poorer teams couldn’t afford it. This will be a lot of bark and no bite.
This rule wasn’t even put in place beacue of fair play - it was because of financial inequities.
The relevant NCAA rule is bylaw 11.6. 1, which prohibits “off-campus, in-person scouting of future opponents (in the same season).” The rule was passed in 1994 as a cost-cutting measure designed to promote equity for programs that couldn't afford to send scouts to other games.
It makes no difference why it was enacted. It's against the rules to do what Michigan did. It's an indisputable fact.
Welp, the NCAA will have an easy time with this then. I’d love to hear what you think will happen to them. I’ll say - couple of suspensions. Maybe three or four games for Moore. That’s it. They don’t touch wins, post-season play, revenue, no fines, etc.
Dude. The Michigan board has been saying this since Stalions got busted. This is Patriots Spygate shìt. Not bending the rules. They clearly cheated. The NCAA is pissed because they refused to cooperate in both investigations. Pissed.
Yeah, I agree the ncaa is gutless and likely does very little to Michigan. That said, having Conner Stalions dressed in CMU (?) gear on the CMU sideline so he could covertly scout Michigan St was clearly outside the rules.
Stealing signs isn’t the issue. That is not illegal. Scouting in person is. That is not going to provide the kind of destruction people are desperately hoping for IMO. Michigan will lawyer up so hard if the NCAA dares suggest more than a few suspensions.
The punishment will almost certainly be less than what most of us think it should be. While forfeiting games is viewed as a silly punishment after the fact, when you win games where you had a competitive advantage as a direct result of cheating, it seems warranted. But I doubt the NCAA is going to vacate anything. The Big 10 had the real opportunity to do something meaningful since they were able to act more quickly than the NCAA ever can (except when your own BOT serves things up on a platter), but they ended up giving them a slap on the wrist.
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I'm getting exhausted explaining this nonsense. Harbaugh got a show clause for 4 years for breaking recruiting rules during Covid. It now includes repeat offenses for Sherrone Moore and others for the sign stealing, making them multiple time offenders.
Michigan receives probation, show-cause penalties stemming from NCAA investigation into recruiting violations
The university still faces a separate NCAA investigation into alleged sign-stealing
www.cbssports.com
Michigan was a dirty program under Harbaugh. Illegal scouting, recruiting etc. They doubled down by promoting to HC a major player in past violations. We'll have to wait for the penalties to be finalized on the Illegal scouting scheme. It might take 5 years to get the proper perspective and determine if it was worth it.
I'm getting exhausted explaining this nonsense. Harbaugh got a show clause for 4 years for breaking recruiting rules during Covid. It now includes repeat offenses for Sherrone Moore and others for the sign stealing, making them multiple time offenders.
Michigan receives probation, show-cause penalties stemming from NCAA investigation into recruiting violations
The university still faces a separate NCAA investigation into alleged sign-stealing
No reason for you to keep going; I’ve seen what the NCAA has done to date. I’m unconvinced anything meaningful will come of it. Harbaugh isn’t even there anymore. That is all.
Stalions deserves a statue in Ann Arbor far more than Bo.
You’re trying too hard. The rule was designed to promote equity for programs. Break the rule and you’re messing with fair play.
Ah. So, the massive differences in budgets that lead to better coaches, recruits, facilities, etc. don’t contribute to program inequity? Too much hatred of Michigan disguised as pearl clutching around fairness IMO.
Now you’re being argumentative simply to be argumentative. Sure, budget inequality is rampant in college sports but every program should respect any attempt to level the playing field. I’d feel the same way about any other program (including PSU) doing what Michigan did.
And maybe, just maybe, people are especially pissed more because it was Michigan who won it all last year, and not because it’s Michigan cheating. If Michigan hadn’t won last year we wouldn’t still be talking about it, would we? Think Houston Astros.
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What? Are you saying that a 5-12 Bowl record and NO (zero) undefeated, untied teams and NO national titles is not worthy of a statue? Bo knows ... he's overrated.