federal debt

[KopiKat]

This is NOT to be a discussion about politics - rather, economics.

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/mspd/2015/opds062015.pdf
current US treasury monthly statement of the public debt of the United States: total current debt: 18.15 trillion dollars. The portion currently owned by the US taxpayer? > 13 trillion dollars. The percentage of that 18.15 trillion dollars currently owned by the US taxpayer? approx. 72%

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/mspd/2009/opds012009.pdf
US treasury monthly statement of the public debt of the United States when Barack Hussein Obama became president of the United States. total debt: 10.6 trillion (this figure has been recalculated by the Obama administration over the past 6 years and is now on record at approximately 2 trillion higher than the working number when Obama assumed office). Portion held by the US taxpayer when Obama assumed office? 6.3 trillion dollars (again, this number has been modified over the years by the current regime, but even in it's favorable condition we can see that the amount applied to you and I has more than doubled under Obama's 6.5 years in office). Percentage owned by the US taxpayer prior to when Obama assumed office? Less than 60 %.

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/mspd/2001/2001.htm (click January)

US treasury statement for when George Bush became president: This is a great laugh to provide for anybody who likes to espouse the useless virtue of Bill Clinton's achievement of "balancing a budget," which means nothing, and meant nothing, unless you think taxing the people of the United States more than he promised to (budgeted for) was good. There is still time to mail back that rebate check George Bush sent to you.

Enjoy and have a nice evening.
Peace and prayers for the Marine families in Chattanooga.

 

[UKGrad93]

This will not lead anywhere good.

 

[JonathanW_rivals]

If I read the OP post correctly, it is interesting that of the 7.55 trillion increase in debt, 6.7 trillion of it, almost 90% of it, goes to those other than US taxpayers.

 

[BlueThruAndThru_rivals115784]

This is NOT to be a discussion about politics - rather, economics.

Barack Hussein Obama became president of the United States.

kay:

 

[P.PattersonISwalkingthruthatdoor]

Yeah, not a political post at all, OP.

 

[KopiKat]

If I read the OP post correctly, it is interesting that of the 7.55 trillion increase in debt, 6.7 trillion of it, almost 90% of it, goes to those other than US taxpayers.

you read my post and the US treasury statements incorrectly. Currently the federal debt is more than 16 trillion. The private citizen is responsible for more than 70 percent of that debt. The government, less than 30%. Simple math. Dangerous economics. Impossible to understand where you got your 90 percent figure, but that is wrong. The economic responsibility of the federal debt during the past 6.5 years has shifted to the citizens and away from the treasury / government. All the while, the debt itself has grown considerably. These are cold, hard, factual numbers.

There are no "other than US taxpayers" in a scenario where the debt is the responsibility of only two parties: the taxpayers (private citizens) and the government (common institution of the citizens).

 

[AustinTXCat]

To put the debt in perspective, if there were only ONE taxpayer in the United States, he'd have to kick in the entire 13 trillion.*








*hat tip, Dennis Miller c. 1995

[laughing]

 

[qwesley]

The Villages should start thinking of putting a moat around their territory.

 

[BBUK_anon]

It's a shame that the government and the people will not spend only what they have, not what they can borrow. Yes, most have homes because they can borrow but economics and living could happen without the borrowing aspect. (Duck, that just flew over many...)

 

[Chuckinden]

Paying off the national debt is one of the least worries I have. Cutting spending is the biggest need.

 

[jwheat]

What's the end consequence of not paying our national debt? Nothing?

 

[mashburned]

It's a shame that the government and the people will not spend only what they have, not what they can borrow. Yes, most have homes because they can borrow but economics and living could happen without the borrowing aspect. (Duck, that just flew over many...)

Wow what a crazy concept! Common sense lives.

 

[mashburned]

What's the end consequence of not paying our national debt? Nothing?

We have to print more.

 

[akers65]

So the U.S. Debt is now 18.5 trillion
I read an article a while back that stated all the money in the world totaled only 75 trillion. So the US debt is almost 25 percent of all the money on earth.

From this perspective, the debt is scary big. A U.S. economic collapse would be a world wide disaster. Looks like the world cannot let us go bust . Kinda like life insurance.

Since I can't do anything about the debt, I don't worry about it.
No sense getting worked up over something you can't control.

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

What's the end consequence of not paying our national debt? Nothing?

No.

 

[BBUK_anon]

No.

Sigh

 

[JumperJack]

Why be responsible when you can screw over a generation you'll never meet?

 

[Kaizer Sosay]

We have to print more.

While this is true now...it will only continue to be true as long as the US dollar remains the primary reserve currency worldwide. America doesn’t worry about balance of payments crises, as it can pay for imports in dollars the Federal Reserve can just print. And Washington keeps spending willy-nilly, as the world buys ever more Treasuries on the strength of regulatory imperative and the vast liquidity and size of the market for US sovereign debt.

But there are several countries out there trying to change that very thing. Foreign countries own about 35% of the US's debt. With the two biggest being China and Japan each owning a little over 7% each of the US's total debt. China has been making serious moves to under mind the US dollar with what appears to be a play to replace it as the world's primary reserve currency with their currency, the yuan.

This all sounds far fetched because all of us have only ever known a world where the US dollar rules all as the primary reserve currency in world trade...pretty much since the end of WWII. And all we have to do is keep printing money. But that little smoke and mirror tactic ceases to exist if the US dollar is replaced in that capacity. And the US economy would go into a free fall like we have never seen.

China has been making several huge deals in recent years with several European countries without using the US dollar and is attempting to make that an international standard. The governments of Brazil, Russia, India and China led a conference in the Brazilian city of Fortaleza to mark the establishment of a new development bank that, whatever diplomatic niceties are put on it, is intent on competing with the IMF and World Bank. And China has been buying up huge amounts of gold. If China does decide to completely back the yuan with gold and no longer use the U.S. dollar in international trade, it will have devastating effects on the U.S. economy. Demand for the U.S. dollar and U.S. debt would drop like a rock, and prices on the things that we buy every day would soar. At that point you could forget about cheap gasoline or cheap Chinese imports. Our entire way of life depends on the U.S. dollar being the primary reserve currency of the world and being able to import things very inexpensively.

If the rest of the world (led by China) starts to reject the U.S. dollar, it would result in a massive tsunami of currency coming back to our shores and a very painful adjustment in our standard of living. Today, most U.S. currency is actually used outside of the US. If someday that changes and we are no longer able to export our inflation that is going to mean big trouble for us.

The fact that we get to print up giant mountains of money and virtually everyone around the world uses it has been a huge boon for the U.S. economy. If that changes, the word "catastrophic" is not going to be nearly strong enough to describe what is going to happen.

 

[-LEK-]

Damn fine post KS

 

[akers65]

Yep catastrophe if that happens

Excellent post

 

[Deeeefense]

but even in it's favorable condition we can see that the amount applied to you and I has more than doubled under Obama's 6.5 years in office). .

But this is NOT a discussion about politics. [laughing]

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

Sigh

To be clear, I was saying no to his question of "nothing?"....there are a ton of consequences to the national debt.

I don't think I was being very clear then or now IMO

 

[BBUK_anon]

To be clear, I was saying no to his question of "nothing?"....there are a ton of consequences to the national debt.

I don't think I was being very clear then or now IMO

I thought I was quoting the other post....Oops

 

[thabigbluenation]

While this is true now...it will only continue to be true as long as the US dollar remains the primary reserve currency worldwide. America doesn’t worry about balance of payments crises, as it can pay for imports in dollars the Federal Reserve can just print. And Washington keeps spending willy-nilly, as the world buys ever more Treasuries on the strength of regulatory imperative and the vast liquidity and size of the market for US sovereign debt.

But there are several countries out there trying to change that very thing. Foreign countries own about 35% of the US's debt. With the two biggest being China and Japan each owning a little over 7% each of the US's total debt. China has been making serious moves to under mind the US dollar with what appears to be a play to replace it as the world's primary reserve currency with their currency, the yuan.

This all sounds far fetched because all of us have only ever known a world where the US dollar rules all as the primary reserve currency in world trade...pretty much since the end of WWII. And all we have to do is keep printing money. But that little smoke and mirror tactic ceases to exist if the US dollar is replaced in that capacity. And the US economy would go into a free fall like we have never seen.

China has been making several huge deals in recent years with several European countries without using the US dollar and is attempting to make that an international standard. The governments of Brazil, Russia, India and China led a conference in the Brazilian city of Fortaleza to mark the establishment of a new development bank that, whatever diplomatic niceties are put on it, is intent on competing with the IMF and World Bank. And China has been buying up huge amounts of gold. If China does decide to completely back the yuan with gold and no longer use the U.S. dollar in international trade, it will have devastating effects on the U.S. economy. Demand for the U.S. dollar and U.S. debt would drop like a rock, and prices on the things that we buy every day would soar. At that point you could forget about cheap gasoline or cheap Chinese imports. Our entire way of life depends on the U.S. dollar being the primary reserve currency of the world and being able to import things very inexpensively.

If the rest of the world (led by China) starts to reject the U.S. dollar, it would result in a massive tsunami of currency coming back to our shores and a very painful adjustment in our standard of living. Today, most U.S. currency is actually used outside of the US. If someday that changes and we are no longer able to export our inflation that is going to mean big trouble for us.

The fact that we get to print up giant mountains of money and virtually everyone around the world uses it has been a huge boon for the U.S. economy. If that changes, the word "catastrophic" is not going to be nearly strong enough to describe what is going to happen.

that is the kind of shish major world wars would start because of....

 

[KopiKat]

Our entire way of life depends on the U.S. dollar being the primary reserve currency of the world and being able to import things very inexpensively.
QUOTE]

First off, that was an excellent post, Kaizer. Secondly, the dollar's ability to remain the big dog among world currencies is the OPEC treaty. I suspect you know this and I would like to invite you to discuss your understanding. But basically it goes like the this: The OPEC agreements of the early 1970s require by international treaty that all OPEC oil be sold for dollars. Not euros, not yuan, not pound. Dollars. In exchange we give the promise of backing their puppet regimes.

Several years ago a prick by the name of Sadam Hussein got the bright idea that he would sell his oil for something other than dollars. The remaining OPEC countries would have loved for him to have gotten away with it as they would have been able to sell OPEC oil for whatever currencies they could exchange their holdings of US dollars for. Doing so would have destroyed the value of the dollar. Destroyed the value of American savings and basically ruined our economy for all time. It was a declaration of economic war to be sure.

Unfortunately, these conditions are not the sort of thing that the American public is prepared to handle. So talk of WMD's instead, invasion, removal of the rotten bastard who attempted to violate the OPEC treaty - an intolerable no-no - let that be a lesson to the rest of you filthy b@stards before you think about destroying our economy by selling OPEC oil for something other than our money.

Indeed, our way of life depends on the dollar, and it runs deep with the most basic OPEC terms: your oil for our money = you can stay in power

 

[ukalumni00]

Damn fine post KS

Agree and just shows how real of an enemy China is to the U.S. Add in the cyber attacks, etc.

 

[dgtatu01]

Honestly worry about what you can change. If it is out of your control get over it. This falls squarely in the out of my control bin so I just don't care. I own some shotguns, rifles, and ammo so if the crap hits the fan I will be fine, I also own stocks, my home, and have a really good paying job, so if crap doesn't hit the fan I will be fine. If someone kills me, well I have a relationship with Jesus Christ so that will be fine too. No reason to get my panties in a wad every day about national politics.

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

So what is the gameplan to combat that happening, KS? Not a smart ace question, just curious as to your answer.

 

[WayneDougan_rivals170043]

My understanding is that the majority of this debt is owned by corporations and people within the US. And the interest is very low.

 

[JonathanW_rivals]

Odd how some confuse economics with politics. Nothing wrong/political about this topic.

 

[Get Buckets]

Too big to fail. Mirite??

 

[P.PattersonISwalkingthruthatdoor]

Odd how some confuse economics with politics. Nothing wrong/political about this topic.

Odd how an OP can make a "non-political" post blaming the debt on "the current regime" without placing even a *little* responsibility on congress, much less the previous administrations.

This mess has been decades in the making. Wars have played a part, entitlements have played a part, economic downturns have played a part, tax structures have played a part, demographic trends have played a part, political gridlock and pork barrel motivations have played a part.......but it's just the "current regime's fault", according to the OP.

 

[mashburned]

Thanks for that lesson, Kaiz. I just hope we have nukes and stuff.

 

[akers65]

My understanding is that the majority of this debt is owned by corporations and people within the US. And the interest is very low.

1% of 18,500,000,000,000 is still 185,000,000,000
So a one percent rate costs 185 billion per year in interest alone. About 3,7 billion per state. Or nearly the same as the Ky state budget. (Compound interest would be more)

Now add in several billion more a year for principle.

 

[TheTruCatsFan]

We should make Kanye pay for it.

 

[KopiKat]

Odd how an OP can make a "non-political" post blaming the debt on "the current regime" without placing even a *little* responsibility on congress, much less the previous administrations.

This mess has been decades in the making. Wars have played a part, entitlements have played a part, economic downturns have played a part, tax structures have played a part, demographic trends have played a part, political gridlock and pork barrel motivations have played a part.......but it's just the "current regime's fault", according to the OP.

If it makes you feel better, "current regime" may certainly extend to those portions of congress that have worked favorably with the Obama administration since January 2009. Also, nothing in my post indicated exclusive blame toward the current administration. How did you manage to interpret that? Yet another thread that makes clear which posters have never indulged a serious work of literature. Maybe instead of trying to build your identity using tiny pictures of famous Russian politicians you might try to sharpen your mind using the offerings of famous Russian writers. I can make a few recommendations for you, including which English translations might be best for a first timer.

 

[P.PattersonISwalkingthruthatdoor]

So it's still obummer's fault. Got it.

 

[KopiKat]

So it's still obummer's fault. Got it.

My used ignorance--in an instant
Was shaken by the demon's hand,
And he combined my poor existence
With his existence to the end
Aleksandr Pushkin

 

[P.PattersonISwalkingthruthatdoor]

My used ignorance--in an instant
Was shaken by the demon's hand,
And he combined my poor existence
With his existence to the end
Aleksandr Pushkin

"Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." - Dick Cheney

 

[KopiKat]

"Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." - Dick Cheney

Excellent. Thank you. But the federal debt and deficit (pertaining to congressional budget) are two entirely separate discussions - two entirely separate financial and economic principles. I would rather have a president who taxes less than was budgeted for (allows the people to keep more of their money). The end result would likely be a deficit against the budget. This is like a slightly overdrawn checking account (when the government doesn't make as much money as they budgeted for it is because they didn't tax as much as they had planned - pity that). Budget deficit is indeed a separate issue from a the federal debt. The current federal debt is more like an old man who has squandered not only his life savings, but also the savings of all his children, his grandchildren, and probably most of his great-grandchildren, and several many of his remaining progeny who aren't even yet born. While doing this it may be possible for him to have a balanced checkbook month to month, year after year, which is what Bill Clinton did, just once, and everybody thought was so spectacularly wonderful, but was meaningless. In fact, Bill Clinton left office with a "budget surplus" which meant that his administration in his last year taxed the Amercian public more than he promised, he somehow managed to make everybody think that was great. Then, when the evil George Bush became president his first order of business was to send that money back to the American people because he felt it should never have been taken from them in the first place. That was just the sort of man that Clinton was. He thought it was great when he could take things that didn't belong to him and make everybody think he was doing a good job.