How important is recruiting?

[willievic]

Every fan of UK knows recruiting is one of the most important things in football. But how important? Is it more important then good coaching, or do they go "hand in hand." I believe you must have at least a Top 30 class, but you don't have to have a Top 10, even though I had rather have a Top 10, and my first choice is a No. 1, but that's not likely to happen at UK at the present time in football.
In the last five years, Michigan State's average class rank is 29th. Michigan State has never had a recruiting class ranked better than 22nd in the nation, in the last 5 years, according to the composite rankings compiled by 247 Sports. During the last 6 years, their overall record is 65-15, and 39-9 in the Big Ten. This includes 2012, when they were 7-6 overall, and 3-5 in the Big Ten. The following year, they were 13-1 and 8-0 in the Big Ten. They have gone to nine straight bowls.
We all know recruiting is very important, and Coach Stoops and his staff are doing a GREAT job at that. Now, Coach Stoops and his staff must be able to coach these recruits up. When it comes down to stars, it doesn't mean the player is going to live up to his star ranking in college, but I think all of us had rather have a 4 or 5 star player, then a 2 or 3 star player. However, you can't tell with a 17 or 18 year old kid how he's going to play when he's 21 or 22, or how he's going to develop, or if he's going to be able to take coaching.
Based on Coach Dantonio's record at Michigan State, UofK has the potential to be an excellent football team, if the staff can coach the players up, and it appears Coach Stoops has the assistants he wants, and hopefully the type of offense he wants Coach Gran to run.
I realize we all think the SEC is much harder to win against then the Big Ten, as proven the last 10 years, but we should beat the other teams on our schedule, and be competitive in the SEC.
There should be no excuses, just produce, and I believe they will. I would like to know your opinion.

 

[Cats_2010]

They definitely go hand in hand but coaching trumps recruiting at least to some degree. Need to look no further than Florida with all the 5 star talent they bring in year after year and the shape their program was in under Muschamp and even with their success this year still not sold that McElwain is getting all he can from their roster. They are certainly better but still not remotely close to what they were under Spurrier and Meyer.

 

[akaukswoosh]

Good recruiting is important, even more important in the SEC. Then you have to cultivate and motivate.

 

[UKWildcats#8]

Good coaches generally get good recruits. It goes hand in hand.

 

[3kidsandme]

How important is blood to survive? It's not about class rankings it's finding good players that can fit together and mesh as a team.

 

[Mike-D]

Michigan State will get exposed for what they are by Alabama. They wouldn't have near the same success in the SEC, so it's really hard to compare their recruiting classes to their success in the Mini-10. They probably even at 20-30 range overall, bring in the 2nd best recruiting class in the conference behind Ohio State every year.

 

[UKWildcats#8]

Michigan State will get exposed for what they are by Alabama. They wouldn't have near the same success in the SEC, so it's really hard to compare their recruiting classes to their success in the Mini-10. They probably even at 20-30 range overall, bring in the 2nd best recruiting class in the conference behind Ohio State every year.

Yeah, a lot of people want to compare this game to the Bama/OSU game last year. Not buying it, as OSU has SEC type players and could match Bama's depth and talent and team speed. MSU can't.

And before anyone says "Well they won AT OSU this year with a backup QB." Yeah that's great, and I commend MSU on a fine season and they have the best overall wins of any team in the playoff IMO, but I think we can all agree that the OSU/MSU outcome had more to do with OSU's internal issues than MSU being better (much like the Bama/OSU game last year, again IMO).

 

[jauk11]

Yeah, a lot of people want to compare this game to the Bama/OSU game last year. Not buying it, as OSU has SEC type players and could match Bama's depth and talent and team speed. MSU can't.

And before anyone says "Well they won AT OSU this year with a backup QB." Yeah that's great, and I commend MSU on a fine season and they have the best overall wins of any team in the playoff IMO, but I think we can all agree that the OSU/MSU outcome had more to do with OSU's internal issues than MSU being better (much like the Bama/OSU game last year, again IMO).

Yeah, we should have a better answer for the OP later today. I think Brooks did a great job evaluating and signing underrated talent (said Tre was a four star instead of a 5.3 the minute he signed his papers) but especially in coaching them up. He assembled a great group of coaches, unfortunately they didn't like to recruit, but then a lot of that could have been atrocious facilities (recruiting room) and support before mitch learned his lesson------I hope. Joker fired a lot of good coaches in order to improve recruiting IMO, unfortunately he ended up with not much of either with the support he had from UK.

 

[NavyCat88]

Every fan of UK knows recruiting is one of the most important things in football. But how important? Is it more important then good coaching, or do they go "hand in hand." I believe you must have at least a Top 30 class, but you don't have to have a Top 10, even though I had rather have a Top 10, and my first choice is a No. 1, but that's not likely to happen at UK at the present time in football.
In the last five years, Michigan State's average class rank is 29th. Michigan State has never had a recruiting class ranked better than 22nd in the nation, in the last 5 years, according to the composite rankings compiled by 247 Sports. During the last 6 years, their overall record is 65-15, and 39-9 in the Big Ten. This includes 2012, when they were 7-6 overall, and 3-5 in the Big Ten. The following year, they were 13-1 and 8-0 in the Big Ten. They have gone to nine straight bowls.
We all know recruiting is very important, and Coach Stoops and his staff are doing a GREAT job at that. Now, Coach Stoops and his staff must be able to coach these recruits up. When it comes down to stars, it doesn't mean the player is going to live up to his star ranking in college, but I think all of us had rather have a 4 or 5 star player, then a 2 or 3 star player. However, you can't tell with a 17 or 18 year old kid how he's going to play when he's 21 or 22, or how he's going to develop, or if he's going to be able to take coaching.
Based on Coach Dantonio's record at Michigan State, UofK has the potential to be an excellent football team, if the staff can coach the players up, and it appears Coach Stoops has the assistants he wants, and hopefully the type of offense he wants Coach Gran to run.
I realize we all think the SEC is much harder to win against then the Big Ten, as proven the last 10 years, but we should beat the other teams on our schedule, and be competitive in the SEC.
There should be no excuses, just produce, and I believe they will. I would like to know your opinion.

Compare the careers of Ron Zook and Bill Snyder and you will have your answer re: relative importance of coaching Vs talent.

 

[Real Deal 2]

Compare the careers of Ron Zook and Bill Snyder and you will have your answer re: relative importance of coaching Vs talent.

Wow
Recruiting is 1A and 1B and 1C when it comes to playing winning FB BB or whatever. This is so crazy to even contemplate, all you have to do is look at Cal at UK and compare the last 2 classes Tubby was bringing in. I mean we lost one guy to a prep school and were losing out to Pikeville Tech. We were terrible, Billy G inherited a Joker Smith talent pool.

I mean the 3 years with Joker were abysmal recruiting years, throw in the year and half- 2 year CIW scenario. We had guys that couldn't have played at Murray St or Sun Belt or OVC level, we are still playing with a lot of that talent pool the last 3 years, the one's that stayed or did not transfer or quit.

Recruiting, recruiting. Good to have player development, need to make sure you don't miss on 1/2 of a class, or the guys flunk out, can't play dead in a High School play. I mean, recruiting is it but you have to be good evaluators and teachers, A great system will go a long way, great QB

 

[hmt5000]

system plays into it too. you can have worlds of talent but the system needs to fit the talent and also look for holes or overabundance at one position. like our newton class was ranked in the 30's i believe but 2 highest rated kids were qb's. only one guy can play so kinda misleading on class ranking. or maybe you sign good wr's but no qb to get them the ball or lt to protect him. or maybe you have good lb's but no DT's and the weaknesses actually hide your strengths. or maybe you only have 11 good defenders and are just 1 injury or dead legs away from going in the tank.

good article i read this summer about college football "moneyball recruiting". basically explained how msu and wisc can be consistent top 20 teams with top 35 talent and teams like florida can be underachievers. i'll see if i kind find it and link it.

 

[cat888]

Yeah, we should have a better answer for the OP later today. I think Brooks did a great job evaluating and signing underrated talent (said Tre was a four star instead of a 5.3 the minute he signed his papers) but especially in coaching them up. He assembled a great group of coaches, unfortunately they didn't like to recruit, but then a lot of that could have been atrocious facilities (recruiting room) and support before mitch learned his lesson------I hope. Joker fired a lot of good coaches in order to improve recruiting IMO, unfortunately he ended up with not much of either with the support he had from UK.

Yes If Brooks, Hudson and Archer had each recruited 2 players a year from previous Coaching experience to go with Locals and the ones Joker brought in then things would have been greatly improved yes Brooks was evidently good with Game management chosing an Coaching up Players. One good thing seems to be with Stoops it seems Attrition is being replaced with transfers.

 

[NavyCat88]

Wow
Recruiting is 1A and 1B and 1C when it comes to playing winning FB BB or whatever. This is so crazy to even contemplate, all you have to do is look at Cal at UK and compare the last 2 classes Tubby was bringing in. I mean we lost one guy to a prep school and were losing out to Pikeville Tech. We were terrible, Billy G inherited a Joker Smith talent pool.

I mean the 3 years with Joker were abysmal recruiting years, throw in the year and half- 2 year CIW scenario. We had guys that couldn't have played at Murray St or Sun Belt or OVC level, we are still playing with a lot of that talent pool the last 3 years, the one's that stayed or did not transfer or quit.

Recruiting, recruiting. Good to have player development, need to make sure you don't miss on 1/2 of a class, or the guys flunk out, can't play dead in a High School play. I mean, recruiting is it but you have to be good evaluators and teachers, A great system will go a long way, great QB

Another basketball analogy applied to FB.....standard fare for us. What is next?.....maybe we name the FB field after a BB coach....oh yeah we already did. Cal's BB success HAS NO APPLICATION IN FB. Re: Joker....he wasn't talented enough as a HC to make use of better talent even if he had it. Make the FB choice-- Zook success with great talent or Snyder success with mediocre talent. I'm looking forward to improved performance on the field with our "improved" recruits, but it isn't happening without improved coaching in CMS' part.

 

[Cats_2010]

Wow
Recruiting is 1A and 1B and 1C when it comes to playing winning FB BB or whatever. This is so crazy to even contemplate, all you have to do is look at Cal at UK and compare the last 2 classes Tubby was bringing in. I mean we lost one guy to a prep school and were losing out to Pikeville Tech. We were terrible, Billy G inherited a Joker Smith talent pool.

I mean the 3 years with Joker were abysmal recruiting years, throw in the year and half- 2 year CIW scenario. We had guys that couldn't have played at Murray St or Sun Belt or OVC level, we are still playing with a lot of that talent pool the last 3 years, the one's that stayed or did not transfer or quit.

Recruiting, recruiting. Good to have player development, need to make sure you don't miss on 1/2 of a class, or the guys flunk out, can't play dead in a High School play. I mean, recruiting is it but you have to be good evaluators and teachers, A great system will go a long way, great QB

Rather poor take and even worse by using basketball recruiting to make your point. Recruiting is important but if you don't have an effective system and coach driving that system then you will have nothing but a talented .500 ballclub.

 

[willievic]

I just watched the Houston versus Florida State. Florida got their butts beat. In this case Florida State had much the higher rated talent, but Houston had much the better game plan. I'm a true believer that if your going to beat the so called top teams such as Alabama, Ohio State, etc., who always rank in the Top 10 or 15 in recruiting, you must play more of a wide open passing game.
I believe if you try to play Alabama, LSU, Georgia and some of the other teams who play "smash-mouth" football. at their game, your going to lose.
I believe in the future, to compete with the teams I just mentioned, you must have a dual threat quarterback.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

 

[JDHoss]

Recruiting? Extremely important.

Being able to identify and properly evaluate guys who fit what you are trying to do and are willing to work hard? Even more important.

You want 4 star Alex Smith, or 3 star Randall Cobb?

Not always that simple, but you get the gist....

 

[fabcat]

Recruiting is the life line of either Football or Basketball. The old saying in sports, good players make good coaches, great players make great coaches, and bad players make bad coaches. You can have a great X and O coach with bad players, and all you will have is a well designed play that usually gets stopped by better players.

Now, if you are fortunate enough to have both the players and coach. You have what Alabama has. Bama is in top 2-3 in recruiting every year and they are also the only program to make the playoffs both years.

Saban does it in recruiting then his staff puts them in the best position to be successful. IMO recruiting is 1A and developing is 1B.

 

[rockhound24_rivals]

Recruiting is like breathing... If you don't do it well, it's eventually going to kill you!

 

[Real Deal 2]

Rather poor take and even worse by using basketball recruiting to make your point. Recruiting is important but if you don't have an effective system and coach driving that system then you will have nothing but a talented .500 ballclub.

BS, Recruiting is life blood. Hell ask any coach or listen to them. Give me a break, coach up a bunch of ham sandwiches is what we have had for years.

 

[chuckster.sixpack]

Michigan State will get exposed for what they are by Alabama. They wouldn't have near the same success in the SEC, so it's really hard to compare their recruiting classes to their success in the Mini-10. They probably even at 20-30 range overall, bring in the 2nd best recruiting class in the conference behind Ohio State every year.

And if Ohio State can't compete against Alabama...

 

[oboroCATfan]

I think recruiting is 50% of coaching at this level. The other half is divided evenly between player development and actual coaching(schemes and in game adjustments). What is important to understand is that all these parts are intertwined. You must recruit players that fit your scheme and also understand how individual player talent and development fit into the gameplan.

 

[hmt5000]

part of, a large part, player development is between the ears of the players. i always hear people talk about get guys who have the will and work ethic but the truth is that most hs coaches are gonna give positive reviews of their kids and try to sell them to coaches. it's why having some pipeline schools is nice. you get a little more honest assessment of who is a worker and who is just really talented and milking it. texas got burnt by bringing in phenomenal athletes who track stars but turned out to be bad football players.... but they looked good getting off the bus.

 

[BIGCAT4LIFE]

1. Coaching- if you don't have it forget everything else.

2. Player Development- have to Develop the kids you get. Bigger, stronger, faster. Simple year in year out.

3. Recruiting- have to have the first 2 in place before recruiting gets better, and program builds.

 

[Cats_2010]

BS, Recruiting is life blood. Hell ask any coach or listen to them. Give me a break, coach up a bunch of ham sandwiches is what we have had for years.

If recruiting is the end all be all then you are basically admitting that Cal is an inferior coach. We have one title to show for his 6 years of the best recruiting the game has seen since the UCLA days which of course they wine every year for a decade. We have lost to West Virginia, uconn (twice), some team I can't recall in the NIT, and Wisconsin to end the season. Every one of those teams had vastly inferior rosters to the talent that UK had but won the game nonetheless. So we are square, coaching does not matter at all and it's just about talent and the most talented team will always win?

 

[Poetax]

Michigan State will get exposed for what they are by Alabama. They wouldn't have near the same success in the SEC, so it's really hard to compare their recruiting classes to their success in the Mini-10. They probably even at 20-30 range overall, bring in the 2nd best recruiting class in the conference behind Ohio State every year.

You were dead on with your comments concerning Mich State.

 

[NoDef]

It is a combination. You have to recruit good to be standing at the end, but you can't overcome mediocre coaching and hang with the big boys. You see the difference in Miles and Saban. Miles may get a title, but he can't stay on the top as consistent as Saban because his teams are not as well coached. It's very difficult to win titles college football. One mishap at the wrong time and you might be finished. That's why the coaching is so important.

 

[MEMEBLUE]

Cats2010 excellent post! You need good players, but you a good coach and motivator.

 

[Dan71268_rivals210055]

Good coaches make good players look great. Bad coaches make good player look bad.