Toggle sidebar

Interesting stat from CDC site

G

gamecockcat

Heisman
Oct 29, 2004
10,524
13,501
0
Comorbidities
Table 3 shows the types of health conditions and contributing causes mentioned in conjunction with deaths involving coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death. The number of deaths with each condition or cause is shown for all deaths and by age groups. For data on comorbidities, Click here to download.


Certainly, one could interpret the data in a number of ways but one way is that COVID was the sole cause in only 6% of deaths so far. In 94% of deaths, COVID was a contributing factor and most likely exacerbated, on average, multiple underlying conditions such as obesity, high blood pressure, heart issues, diabetes, etc. So, if this interpretation is true, why are we still shut down? Couldn't we identify the most at-risk population and take all precautions to protect them while allowing the US to reopen and get back on with our lives?
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: hmt5000, CB3UK, Atrain7732 and 4 others
G

gamecockcat

Heisman
Oct 29, 2004
10,524
13,501
0
I am in no way saying that COVID isn't a serious risk and we should ignore it, by the way. Especially for the most at-risk individuals, COVID has proven to be a huge multiplier of inherent risk to these folks. For them, until there's a vaccine and/or proven, safe medical treatment protocols, COVID is very, very serious and must be avoided if at all possible. For the vast majority of the population without comorbidities, it appears, according to the CDC data, that COVID is something to avoid but should not be viewed as a 'death sentence'. Now, of course, we may determine that the lingering effects of more severe cases of the illness cause long-term damage but we don't have enough data to know that, yet. In view of this recent CDC data, shouldn't our 'leaders' (hard not to laugh when I use that word nowadays) follow the science and open up schools, small businesses, etc. in a thoughtful, systematic way?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Phil_The_Music2
B

BlueRaider22

All-American
Sep 24, 2003
15,562
9,058
0
I understand the initial shut down. And I understand why we're still in caution mode. I too agree that we should be much more relaxed by now.



However, COVID is the illness.....and it's common for the illness is not to be listed as sole cause of death. For example, a person doesn't die from falling off a building. They die from trauma suffered from falling off a building. A person doesn't die from a car wreck, they die from severe arterial blood loss suffered after a car wreck.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Deeeefense, bluthruandthru and CatOfDaVille
C

CAT Scratch FVR

All-Conference
Sep 4, 2004
5,910
3,317
103
I think the figure is low. COVID can cause kidneys to shut down for a person who was perfectly fine before COVID. So, now they are classified as co-morbidities.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Deeeefense
C

CatsFanGG24

Heisman
Dec 22, 2003
22,267
27,137
0
CAT Scratch FVR said:
I think the figure is low. COVID can cause kidneys to shut down for a person who was perfectly fine before COVID. So, now they are classified as co-morbidities.
Click to expand...
With the age stratification of deaths, the majority most likely had existing co-morbidities.

Doesn’t mean covid didn’t push them out the door early...but had other issues as well, allowing covid to prey on them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PhDcat2018
cricket3

cricket3

Heisman
May 29, 2001
19,088
19,728
113
About 94% of Americans have pre-existing conditions caused by obesity so that sounds about right.
 
M

Mad Max

All-American
Nov 28, 2015
3,414
6,595
93
If you wear a mask, stay a few feet apart and wash your hands, America will perform basically normally.

still struggling to understand why that is political.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheBlueCat and Pickle_Rick
C

CatOfDaVille

All-American
Mar 30, 2007
6,173
8,100
0
BlueRaider22 said:
I understand the initial shut down. And I understand why we're still in caution mode. I too agree that we should be much more relaxed by now.



However, COVID is the illness.....and it's common for the illness is not to be listed as sole cause of death. For example, a person doesn't die from falling off a building. They die from trauma suffered from falling off a building. A person doesn't die from a car wreck, they die from severe arterial blood loss suffered after a car wreck.
Click to expand...
I get what you're saying and I largely agree that this isn't some major revelation, however, I don't know if this is consistent with other illnesses.

For example, people who died from smallpox and ebola died from those viruses specifically. I've never heard it said that the cause of death from ebola is that it exacerbated someone's underlying illness. No, they died because that virus made them bleed out of their eyeballs.

On the flipside, whether it's the sole cause or just a catalyst, contracting the virus is still causing people to die so I don't see this as some "gotcha" for people to tout that the whole pandemic is overblown. I thought it was pretty much common knowledge by now that people in good health are at low risk of death.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Deeeefense
T

Tskware

Heisman
Jan 26, 2003
25,337
22,171
113
CatOfDaVille said:
I get what you're saying and I largely agree that this isn't some major revelation,

Whether it's the sole cause or just a catalyst, contracting the virus is still causing people to die so I don't see this as some "gotcha" for people to tout that the whole pandemic is overblown. I thought it was pretty much common knowledge by now that people in good health are at low risk of death.
Click to expand...

Thank you, that is exactly what it is being used for all over social media right now as proof of some grand deep state conspiracy:

Even if you had old age, heart condition, COPD, diabetes, overweight, et al, before you got COVID, fact is, you were still alive. COVID is what made the difference. [And I would hate to see the % of Kentucky's population that fit those conditions]

My brother in law and a really close friend (both around 60) have severely reduced lung capacity due to previous very serious illnesses. But they are both married, and work full time jobs (remotely). So if they both get COVID, and then die, are you telling me their deaths should not be reported as COVID deaths? That if they die from the virus they are part of some hoax because they previously had illnesses? I mean . . . WTF??

If a quadriplegic in a wheelchair accidentally tumbles into a swimming pool three feet deep and drowns, the cause of death is still drowning, notwithstanding the fact that 99% of us who aren't paralyzed would have quickly climbed right back out and went about our business.

I don't get where this is news at all, everyone dies sooner or later, and almost from the get go we all understood that the elderly and infirm were much more at risk than most of the rest of us.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CatOfDaVille and bluthruandthru
B

Bill Derington

Heisman
Jan 21, 2003
21,528
39,877
113
CatOfDaVille said:
I get what you're saying and I largely agree that this isn't some major revelation, however, I don't know if this is consistent with other illnesses.

For example, people who died from smallpox and ebola died from those viruses specifically. I've never heard it said that the cause of death from ebola is that it exacerbated someone's underlying illness. No, they died because that virus made them bleed out of their eyeballs.

On the flipside, whether it's the sole cause or just a catalyst, contracting the virus is still causing people to die so I don't see this as some "gotcha" for people to tout that the whole pandemic is overblown. I thought it was pretty much common knowledge by now that people in good health are at low risk of death.
Click to expand...

I think the takeaway is that if you’re a healthy person under 60 then Covid isn’t going to kill you, and most likely you won’t even know you had it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hmt5000, CatOfDaVille and Tskware
T

Tskware

Heisman
Jan 26, 2003
25,337
22,171
113
Bill Derington said:
I think the takeaway is that if you’re a healthy person under 60 then Covid isn’t going to kill you, and most likely you won’t even know you had it.
Click to expand...

I would hope we all pretty much agree on that, at least. I know I do. I am still working and playing golf regularly, and not about to sit in my basement until there is a vaccine, assuming there even is one at any point in the future.
 
B

BlueRaider22

All-American
Sep 24, 2003
15,562
9,058
0
CatOfDaVille said:
I get what you're saying and I largely agree that this isn't some major revelation, however, I don't know if this is consistent with other illnesses.

For example, people who died from smallpox and ebola died from those viruses specifically. I've never heard it said that the cause of death from ebola is that it exacerbated someone's underlying illness. No, they died because that virus made them bleed out of their eyeballs.

On the flipside, whether it's the sole cause or just a catalyst, contracting the virus is still causing people to die so I don't see this as some "gotcha" for people to tout that the whole pandemic is overblown. I thought it was pretty much common knowledge by now that people in good health are at low risk of death.
Click to expand...


As someone who is in the medical field, it is very common with other illnesses. Granted there are times when the Physician is just plain lazy and writes down "pt died of x." But the vast majority of times the patient will have died from complications from something.

You mentioned Ebola. Ebola causes uncontrollable bleeding.......and/or organ failure. In reality the patient dies from severe blood loss complication from the Ebola virus.........or organ failure.....etc. It's just easier sometimes for people just to say, the patient died from Ebola. And, yes, it's a safe bet to say that the person likely would be alive if he didn't have Ebola.








However, things can get more muddy. Let's say you get a person who strains their back......so, they lay in bed for a day or two to rest their back. What if they get a blood clot or pneumonia from laying in bed......and die? Did they die of the back strain? For this reason, Physicians are taught to document in a certain way.

This gets perpetuated further with the loved ones who survive the deceased. Nobody goes around and says that John died of a "lumbar strain." Nor are they going to go around saying that John died of "acute vital organ failure as secondary to a pulmonary embolism." They're just going to say that John died of a "blood clot."








Granted this is all semantics, but it does play a large role in this I think which makes it all the harder to make informed determinations.

What I personally feel is that the death toll is actually a lot higher..........substantially.......like perhaps 5-10x as many.....even with a significant amount of fraud. Covid spreads soooooo quickly and the symptoms vary wildly (from asymptomatic to death's door), that it's virtually impossible for the US to test fast and widespread enough. The average little old lady or old man who dies in their home are not going to get tested. They're going to head straight the funeral home while their families say that she went peacefully at home......."The way she would've wanted......"

This is the reason why you see estimates for illnesses like the flu. Often flu deaths are given as a nice round estimated number.......from 12,000 up to 80,000 per year.




CDC officials do not have exact counts of how many people die from flu each year. Flu is so common that not all flu cases are reported, and flu is not always listed on death certificates. So the CDC uses statistical models, which are periodically revised, to make estimates.

Fatal complications from the flu can include pneumonia, stroke and heart attack.





All of this being said, I do not feel that we still need to be as extreme as we are. I was absolutely in favor or being aggressive early on, but not now. Wearing masks, social distancing, washing hands, using common sense.....sure. But keeping schools and businesses closed, significant restrictions, etc?......nope.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CatOfDaVille
G

Get Buckets

All-Conference
Nov 4, 2007
4,546
3,381
92
BlueRaider22 said:
What I personally feel is that the death toll is actually a lot higher..........substantially.......like perhaps 5-10x as many.....even with a significant amount of fraud.
Click to expand...

I find that extremely hard to believe with the incentives abound for treating/classifying an illness/death as covid. Not to mention the general scare tactics that have gone along with all this.
 
B

BlueRaider22

All-American
Sep 24, 2003
15,562
9,058
0
Get Bucket$ said:
I find that extremely hard to believe with the incentives abound for treating/classifying an illness/death as covid. Not to mention the general scare tactics that have gone along with all this.
Click to expand...



That's fine. We both can have different opinions.....especially because neither of us can prove otherwise. I just know how medicine works.

Right now there have been almost 80 million tests given out.......many of these tests have included people taking it multiple times. It also has significantly targeted those who had some sort of symptoms or were suspect. As we know, ~80% of people who are positive have no symptoms........which would likely never seek to be tested. Of a total US population of 400 million, it's extremely likely that the virus has infected substantially more than the 6 million who have been reported as positive thus far. I don't think that enough fraud can go around in the 180,000 reported deaths that can offset ~350 million people who haven't been tested or analyzed.
 
G

Get Buckets

All-Conference
Nov 4, 2007
4,546
3,381
92
BlueRaider22 said:
I don't think that enough fraud can go around in the 180,000 reported deaths that can offset ~350 million people who haven't been tested or analyzed.
Click to expand...

I don’t understand the point/connection you are making with this statement. What do the number of deaths attributed to covid have to do with the untested general population?
 
  • Like
Reactions: sefus12
B

BlueRaider22

All-American
Sep 24, 2003
15,562
9,058
0
Get Bucket$ said:
I don’t understand the point/connection you are making with this statement. What do the number of deaths attributed to covid have to do with the untested general population?
Click to expand...

You have to be positive to die of COVID. The vast majority of those who get it have little to no symptoms. Most of the asymptomatic folks have not been tested......which means they are counted in the general overall untested populace. That likely means that the majority of true cases is much, much, higher. Which means the death toll is likely much, much higher.
 
W

WildcatofNati

Heisman
Mar 31, 2009
8,183
12,420
0
BlueRaider22 said:
You have to be positive to die of COVID. The vast majority of those who get it have little to no symptoms. Most of the asymptomatic folks have not been tested......which means they are counted in the general overall untested populace. That likely means that the majority of true cases is much, much, higher. Which means the death toll is likely much, much higher.
Click to expand...
It does not mean that at all. The vast majority of untested cases involve people who are asymptomatic, or who have mild symptoms, which means that they didn't die in the first place.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Get Buckets
W

WildcatofNati

Heisman
Mar 31, 2009
8,183
12,420
0
We don't even have enough excess deaths for it to be remotely feasible for there to be 1.5 times the number of coronavirus deaths that are reported, let alone five to ten times as many deaths. As a matter of fact, I submit that probably at least half the excess deaths are caused by the lockdowns, which is why a lot of the excess deaths are age ranges that are rarely dying from the virus. They're dying from undiagnosed medical issues, suicides, homicides and opiates a lot more than usual. I wonder why- I blame the lockdowns.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Get Buckets
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom