Is it just me?
- Thread starter ORANGE_G
- Start date
All I can taste is the vinegar.
I really hate vinegar. I mean. I really hate vinegar.
When I was a child, I went to a evangelical parochial school that had Bible as the first class every day. The teacher was trying to get us to understand how horrible the crucifixion was. She told us that they gave him a crown of thorns and made him carry his own cross for miles. Seemed bad. Then, she told us that they made him erect his own cross and tied him to it. I remember thinking that wasn't nice. Then, she told us that they drove nails through his hands and feet. I thought that probably hurt a little. Then, she told us that they threw a spear into his stomach. I thought that was a bit excessive. But, then, after all of that, she told us the clincher that convinced me that these people were horrible. She said he was thirsty, and they soaked a sponge in vinegar and held it up to his mouth to drink vinegar. I was absolutely outraged. Vinegar!!!!!
I really hate vinegar. I mean. I really hate vinegar.
When I was a child, I went to a evangelical parochial school that had Bible as the first class every day. The teacher was trying to get us to understand how horrible the crucifixion was. She told us that they gave him a crown of thorns and made him carry his own cross for miles. Seemed bad. Then, she told us that they made him erect his own cross and tied him to it. I remember thinking that wasn't nice. Then, she told us that they drove nails through his hands and feet. I thought that probably hurt a little. Then, she told us that they threw a spear into his stomach. I thought that was a bit excessive. But, then, after all of that, she told us the clincher that convinced me that these people were horrible. She said he was thirsty, and they soaked a sponge in vinegar and held it up to his mouth to drink vinegar. I was absolutely outraged. Vinegar!!!!!
Sybar, that's so far out into outer space, I wish I could hit the like button twice.
The only thing wrong with that account syb is that Jesus was alive when he asked for a drink. The Romans thrust the spear into the side after that to make sure the victims were dead.
As for how Alfalfa Bill may taste, our old friend petey* may know something about that...
As for how Alfalfa Bill may taste, our old friend petey* may know something about that...
Last edited:
Vinegar? I never heard that part of the fable.
It was "wine with gall", or sour wine. Today we call it vinegar.
And it wasn't a 'fable'; the Romans were excellent at recording and storing events during thier reign. The Apostle Paul was a Roman Tax collector, for one whose accounts and writings have withstood the ages.
There are many historians who question the historicity of Jesus. I am atheist but I do enjoy researching the topic. I've never read anything about Paul being a Roman Tax collector. I'd love to read what you've read if you could point me in the right direction. Seriously.
BC I appreciate your candor. Google Apostle Paul (Saul of Taursus, a Jewish Roman) for a wealth of information for starters. I'm not going to change your mind, that's a matter of faith between yourself and whatever you choose to believe. Peace unto you & yours!
Yes ia there are no intentions of mind changing Im sure on either side. But it is, imo, a great subject of debate. I don't believe will be alloweto continue this discussion here but i will do some more reading regarding Paul.
IMHO, I believe that Jesus, in some fashion, was a real person or an amalgamation of stories of a real person(s), but it is irrelavant to my belief in God.
IMHO, I believe that Jesus, in some fashion, was a real person or an amalgamation of stories of a real person(s), but it is irrelavant to my belief in God.
BC a question before lockdown for ya, do you believe that Atheism is a religion (organized or not) unto itself?
(Sorry Alf, no thread-jack intended!)
(Sorry Alf, no thread-jack intended!)
Not at all. It's merely a position of non-belief to the claims made by theists.
Yep, iasooner knows. He was there. Most don't know this but he's so old that he remembers the Dead Sea when it was only sick.
I think you're confusing Paul / Saul with Matthew / Levi. Matthew wrote the first Gospel, probably around 55-60 AD. He was one of "the Twelve." I have studied his Gospel a lot more than the other three. Memorized mo re than 14 of the 28 chapters. His personal history as a tax collector made him an excellent source to record the events of the life of Christ. And to understand His grace in a profound way.
Paul/Saul was a member of the strict rules follower Pharisee's. He originally murdered early members of the church, but went through a miraculous conversion.
The notion that Jesus was some sort of mythology is pretty biased. There is more evidence that Jesus lived than that, say, Caesar did. Every measure of historical reliability when applied to the gospels, easily stands up when compared to something like Caesar's commentaries on the Gallic Wars. There are more copies. There are earlier copies.
And there are non biblical historical references to Jesus from non believers, especially the Jewish historian Josephus. Luke's gospel is especially valuable in terms of historical reliability. Carefully researched, Luke was a brilliant man, a doctor and ended up sharing the life of Paul during the last decade of Paul's life. Luke became Paul's personal physician. So he spent a lot of time with those who could provide him with first hand information.
His second historical book, Acts of the Apostles is the sequel, and documents the early church and how it came to be. Because that books ends with Paul in prison in Rome, but before his beheading execution, and because we know from other sources that Paul died in the first half of the decade of the 60s (the real 60s) and because we know that Luke's gospel preceded Acts, it had to have been written in the before 60 AD.
Those who don't believe that Jesus lived at all, would have a very hard time with several things that we know for sure. One is the beginnings of the Church, which Luke recorded. It makes no sense that the Church came to be, if those original apostles (the 12) who boldly told the story of Jesus and the church began from nothing, to become a force in the Roman empire.
The other issue is the change in the lives of those early church fathers. 11 of the 12 died martyrs deaths. If they did that for what they knew to be a lie, they were the worst sort of fools.
Anyone who questions whether Jesus really lived and was crucified, and has done due diligence in their historical study, is being very biased in their approach to history. There is a lot of that around.
You can believe what you want about Jesus of Nazareth. But to believe that is was a made up fable doesn't fit with any reasonable approach applied to any other historical figure.
You are correct Plaino, I had confused the tax collector part between Matthew & Paul, apologies.
BC it's my contention that it takes a certain amount of faith to believe there is No God, thus making Atheism at least a cult or religion itself. Just one very flawed man's opinion.
BC it's my contention that it takes a certain amount of faith to believe there is No God, thus making Atheism at least a cult or religion itself. Just one very flawed man's opinion.
Believing in Jesus as more than a man is coincidental with the understanding that we are very flawed. It's sort of a pre-requisite. I suspect you already knew that.
WNAS, I'm old, but not that old. And I don't drink hardly at all. But my degree at OU was in Ethical and Religious Studies. In most things, I tend to take a very analytical approach, maybe in those areas more than any other. I would agree with IA that it takes more faith to not believe in God, than to believe. I guess maybe he said it takes at least a little.
The idea that dna and living cells happened by chance takes enormous faith in something. Darwin himself said that his view of origins depended on cells being simple in structure. I was taught that they were when I went to high school in the 60s.
We now know that cells are more complicated than lighting the city of Plano. One cell. And for that to have meaning, the complexity coming together screams design. .. and therefore a designer. Not that that sort of common sense view would be presented in a science classroom. It's the one place where free thought is not allowed.
WNAS, I'm old, but not that old. And I don't drink hardly at all. But my degree at OU was in Ethical and Religious Studies. In most things, I tend to take a very analytical approach, maybe in those areas more than any other. I would agree with IA that it takes more faith to not believe in God, than to believe. I guess maybe he said it takes at least a little.
The idea that dna and living cells happened by chance takes enormous faith in something. Darwin himself said that his view of origins depended on cells being simple in structure. I was taught that they were when I went to high school in the 60s.
We now know that cells are more complicated than lighting the city of Plano. One cell. And for that to have meaning, the complexity coming together screams design. .. and therefore a designer. Not that that sort of common sense view would be presented in a science classroom. It's the one place where free thought is not allowed.
There are far to many layers to peel back here to even begin to scratch the surface of this conversation, and we likely won't be afforded the ability to continue here.
Having said that, Plaino, your last reply points toward deism, and not a specific creator (ie. God/YWHW, Allah, Osiris, etc etc). I myself an am agnostic atheist, meaning I don't with 100% certainty claim that there are no god(s), but I reject all claims of any human creation based on lack of evidence.
In my view "I don't know" is an acceptable answer. Science attempts to answer all sorts of questions, including the origins of life and the universe, where religion claims they have the answer. I'm confident they don't. There are to many unknowns at this point to use God to fill in the gaps.
Having said that, Plaino, your last reply points toward deism, and not a specific creator (ie. God/YWHW, Allah, Osiris, etc etc). I myself an am agnostic atheist, meaning I don't with 100% certainty claim that there are no god(s), but I reject all claims of any human creation based on lack of evidence.
In my view "I don't know" is an acceptable answer. Science attempts to answer all sorts of questions, including the origins of life and the universe, where religion claims they have the answer. I'm confident they don't. There are to many unknowns at this point to use God to fill in the gaps.
Last edited:
[QUOTE="Plainosooner, post: 124647, member: 1732"al with the understanding that we are very flawed. It's sort of a pre-requisite. I suspect you already knew that.
WNAS, I'm old, but not that old. And I don't drink hardly at all. But my degree at OU was in Ethical and Religious Studies. In most things, I tend to take a very analytical approach, maybe in those areas more than any other. I would agree with IA that it takes more faith to not believe in God, than to believe. I guess maybe he said it takes at least a little.
The idea that dna and living cells happened by chance takes enormous faith in something. Darwin himself said that his view of origins depended on cells being simple in structure. I was taught that they were when I went to high school in the 60s.
We now know that cells are more complicated than lighting the city of Plano. One cell. And for that to have meaning, the complexity coming together screams design. .. and therefore a designer. Not that that sort of common sense view would be presented in a science classroom. It's the one place where free thought is not allowed.[/QUOTE]
WNAS, I'm old, but not that old. And I don't drink hardly at all. But my degree at OU was in Ethical and Religious Studies. In most things, I tend to take a very analytical approach, maybe in those areas more than any other. I would agree with IA that it takes more faith to not believe in God, than to believe. I guess maybe he said it takes at least a little.
The idea that dna and living cells happened by chance takes enormous faith in something. Darwin himself said that his view of origins depended on cells being simple in structure. I was taught that they were when I went to high school in the 60s.
We now know that cells are more complicated than lighting the city of Plano. One cell. And for that to have meaning, the complexity coming together screams design. .. and therefore a designer. Not that that sort of common sense view would be presented in a science classroom. It's the one place where free thought is not allowed.[/QUOTE]
Sorry i was trying to reply to the last two sentences of your post Plaino but i guess my phone doesn't want to cooperate.
Anyway, your jab against common sense in the classroom and free thought might be the most ironic thing i've ever read from you, if the alternative is the "common sense and free thought" afforded by the church. In that regard religion leaves itself no leg to stand on.
Plaino I do have a great deal of respect for you and so I'm willfully leaving this thread for others to discuss as i fear its now doomed for a turn for the worst.
I'll see you in the conversations surrounding our beloved Sooners!
Anyway, your jab against common sense in the classroom and free thought might be the most ironic thing i've ever read from you, if the alternative is the "common sense and free thought" afforded by the church. In that regard religion leaves itself no leg to stand on.
Plaino I do have a great deal of respect for you and so I'm willfully leaving this thread for others to discuss as i fear its now doomed for a turn for the worst.
I'll see you in the conversations surrounding our beloved Sooners!
BCS, I didn't consider it a jab at all and didn't intend it that way. And I'm not trying to put your view down. In these matters, "I don't know" is a perfectly reasonable answer. As is "I don't know, but I don't think there is a God." But I don't know at least entertains the possibility, even if in your view, that is remote. My complaint is that my view isn't considered a possibility. And I'm not the only person around who finds pretty strong evidence that God is more than just a little possibility.
But that point of view is excluded from the discussion. So if He is real, and if He did create everything, including and especially life, then the whole naturalistic paradigm falls apart, because it assumes that He not only doesn't exist, but that He had nothing to do with it. And there is considerable evident to the contrary. And that evidence is not only excluded from the discussion, but will cost just about any instructor in the process his or her job, just to even entertain the possibility.
When you consider some of the outlandish ideas that are allowed, especially at the university level, in the name of tenure freedom, that seems more than a little unfair. You see yourself as an open minded guy. If you haven't seen Ben Stein's take on the freedom to discuss it issue: in the movie Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed, then to understand a little where a guy like me is coming from, that would be a fine resource. If you want to be even more open minded, read some of Phillip Johnson's work on the issue.
Being truly educated means having a reasonable understanding of views of those with whom you disagree. Now if you want to do something truly bold, pretend for a moment that there is a god, and ask the deity to make itself known to you personally. Nobody like me trying to convince you. Take a moment to understand that if there is a god, it would be a little more awesome and powerful than you are, so make the request with some humility. Or even shake your fist at Him and ask. But do so in the task of truly seeking truth. You might end up with irony on the other foot.
I did the former more than 45 years ago. Changed my life.
Last edited:
I think you have Gary confused with Brian Williams. It's an easy mistake to make.
Not a big fan of chicken wings, but the last time I ate them, they were slathered in BBQ sauce, so it was hard to tell if it was chicken.
If I had known it was going to start a religious discussion, I would have drunk the vinegar.
Don't drink it yet. That was just an historical discussion. Vinegar is great for cleaning Mr. Coffee and making it work like new. Put about 4 or 5 oz. and let it perk a few squirts, turn it off and do it again a few times during the day. The acidity breaks down the calcium. Works great. Run a pot of water through it when done.
Here's one of my favorite sauces. (Head Country and Swadley's Grumpy are pretty good too). Remember a poster on the Husker board several years ago name Sparky? Super nice guy. He started a company that manufactures and markets his own recipe. He's doing quite well as I understand things. Here is the link.
http://www.sparkyswingsauce.com/
Last edited:
I've evolved into I don't really care for the sauce at all.
I like 'em nekkid, if you will, or maybe a hint of lemon pepper. Then again I drown them in ranch dressing so, I guess it's a push.
I like 'em nekkid, if you will, or maybe a hint of lemon pepper. Then again I drown them in ranch dressing so, I guess it's a push.
Pluckers out of Austin has some pretty good wings and they are rapidly expanding in Houston now. I like their Dr.Pepper wings w/ Ranch!
Sparky is still on the Husker board, at least he was the last time I visited. He is a mod.
I once made an internet bet with him on the outcome of the last Husker/Sooner game. His wing sauce vs. Head Country BBq sauce.
I won and sure enough he paid up a week later. His sauce was excellent. I need to order some and give him a shout out.
An old fashioned Husker fan that I wouldn't mind watching a game with............
Great story K2C. Why are they punishing him though? He's now a moderator? (That was sarcasm).
We had Sparky's sauce at a company OU tailgate a couple of years ago. Our rep from N. Dakota picked up a case on the way down. When I saw the bottle I knew exactly what it was and knew I was in for a feast. Really good flavor.
We had Sparky's sauce at a company OU tailgate a couple of years ago. Our rep from N. Dakota picked up a case on the way down. When I saw the bottle I knew exactly what it was and knew I was in for a feast. Really good flavor.
kudos all around for the respect for others shown in this thread.
Believe it or not, I think I remember some diesel dyke looking Peta chick actually whining about the paraplegic chickens issue...true story.
Maybe its just me but Buffalo Wild Wings has come a long way in making a better hot wing these days.
I've usually got to have a 5 gallon bucket of Dos Equis to control the heat, but i love me some mango habanero and the tai curry.
I've usually got to have a 5 gallon bucket of Dos Equis to control the heat, but i love me some mango habanero and the tai curry.
S
sparky62
Guest
First off let me say thanks. I really appreciate all the kind words. We're still just a small company in Nebraska, I'm a Fire Captain & my wife has an in home DayCare, but we're expanding little by little. Thanks again for all the kudos and a big thank you to @K2C Sooner for letting me know about this. . Now, when in the HE!! is NU & OU gonna play again.