Is Steveson really our nation's best ever Hwt?

ptomaselli

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Folks act like he's head and shoulders above...the best ever.

Kurt Angle also has 2 NCAA titles (3 time AA), an Olympic Gold, a World title...and a far superior WWE career.
Bruce Baumgartner has 1 NCAA title and 3 time AA w/2 2nds. Internationally its not even a question with 2 Olympic Golds and 3 World Championships and numerous other medals.

I'm not saying Steveson isn't. He's DEFINITELY right there in the conversation. I'm only saying that its not as cut and dried as people think.
 
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lionlover

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Folks act like he's head and shoulders above...the best ever.

Kurt Angle also has 2 NCAA titles (3 time AA), an Olympic Gold, a World title...and a far superior WWE career.
Bruce Baumgartner has 1 NCAA title and 3 time AA w/2 2nds. Internationally its not even a question with 2 Olympic Golds and 3 World Championships and numerous other medals.

I'm not saying Steveson isn't. He's DEFINITELY right there in the conversation. I'm only saying that its not as cut and dried as people think.
Carlton Haselrig. He not only had a more distinguished NCAA championship track record, but he also didn't fail in his transition to professional football. Because of his success in pro football, he never tried out for the Olympics. BTW, He beat Kurt Angle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlton_Haselrig#Wrestling_career
 
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ptomaselli

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coastfan

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Carlton Haselrig. He not only had a more distinguished NCAA championship track record, but he also didn't fail in his transition to professional football. Because of his success in pro football, he never tried out for the Olympics. BTW, He beat Kurt Angle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlton_Haselrig#Wrestling_career
Carlton I believe is one of three NCAA Div 1 champions who also had good NFL careers. Curly Culp was a Hvy weight national champion at Arizona State as well as a stellar nose tackle for the KC Chiefs. PA’s own Jim Nance won a championship at Syracuse and then had a good career with the Patriots as an RB.
To excel at the highest level in those two sports is an extremely difficult accomplishment.
 

lionlover

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Pretty sure Bruce Baumgartner has that distinction. He's considered one of the greatest of all time.

Here's the problem with your sweeping generalization. Folkstyle and Freestyle are different.

If you want to say that Baumgartner was the most dominant HWT Freestyle wrestler, then you have a strong case.

But, when it comes to folkstyle wrestling, Carlton Haeselrig had the most distinguished record of the three.
 
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manatree

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Folks act like he's head and shoulders above...the best ever.

Kurt Angle also has 2 NCAA titles (3 time AA), an Olympic Gold, a World title...and a far superior WWE career.

What is the he!! does that have to do with the discussion? Steveson has had a far superior NFL career (twice the number of tryouts) than Angle. Is that relevant?
 

PSUKieran

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Carlton Haselrig. He not only had a more distinguished NCAA championship track record, but he also didn't fail in his transition to professional football. Because of his success in pro football, he never tried out for the Olympics. BTW, He beat Kurt Angle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlton_Haselrig#Wrestling_career
If I'm not mistaken, Carlton did make somewhat of an attempt at Olympic wrestling but was getting ragdolled by Baumgartner so went the NFL route. And it worked out very well for him...until...the incident(s).
 
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PSUKieran

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BTW, I was at UPJ the same time as Haselrig. Even only at 6"2" still the most monstrous human being I have ever been close to and that is including Darryl Dawkins or Maruis Pudzianowski...Haselrig was just so thick he was almost cubical.
The weight room at UPJ was tiny. If anyone remembers the old Universal Gyms that were combined weight stacks in a 10 x10 square, they had that, a squat station, a flat bench and an incline bench in a 15 x 15 room. That was it. Well, when Carlton came in to lift everyone else left because with him in the room there was no other space for anyone to operate. Hilarious.
 

ptomaselli

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What is the he!! does that have to do with the discussion? Steveson has had a far superior NFL career (twice the number of tryouts) than Angle. Is that relevant?
I think it is because they try to paint Gable as being great at everything he does. If you don't think it's relevant, that's fine for you.
 
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BigBopper85

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I would even argue that Kerry McCoy needs to be in the conversation. Not an Olympic Gold Medalist but after his initial season as a 197 lb he won all but 1 match his last 3 seasons, including 2 national championships and a 3rd place after losing to Stephen Neal. He beat some really strong Heavyweights to compete in the Olympics for the US as well. 1 loss in 3 years is pretty dominant. Gable's Olympic Gold Medal is the differentiator for those who think Gable is superior to McCoy.
 

lionlover

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If I'm not mistaken, Carlton did make somewhat of an attempt at Olympic wrestling but was getting ragdolled by Baumgartner so went the NFL route. And it worked out very well for him...until...the incident(s).
I stand corrected.

 
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I stand corrected.


That was enjoyable. Great to see high action heavy's going at it.
With current rules, Carlton would have had a stall call against him in the first 30 seconds. :) The mat is so much "smaller" under the old rules for OB based on supporting points. Super happy they changed to current OB rule.
Watching this, reflecting, and thinking about how the current OB rules are debated (should push-outs be incorporated into Folkstyle)...the dotted line generated a thought. Here's the idea:
To promote scoring and ACTION in the center of the mat:
* Wrestling mats must have an inner hashed line (or different colored area) 5 feet inside out of bounds line (OB apron)
* Beneath the dashed line and embedded into the mat will be RFD sensors every 6 inches
* Anklets worn by wrestlers will have embedded RFD sensors and must be worn on both ankles
* Clock systems will be integrated with the RFD sensor system
* In neutral (as indicated & tracked by clock system), the opponent of the first wrestler to enter the 5' edge area will accumulate ACTION TIMEas long as the first wrestler remains beyond the 5' perimeter line.
* ACTION TIME point is awarded to wrestler who accumulates 90 seconds or more over the course of the match
* Existing "Riding Time" criteria will also contribute to ACTION TIME to promote point scoring from advantage position and reward for ability to maintain control of opponent.
NOTE: consideration should be given to applying same type of thinking to riding that happens in apron where riding time currently accumulates "hanging onto" opponent. The broad principle is to devalue or even penalize activity at that edge and making more of the wrestling happen in the center of the mat without needing to rely on the official.

Benefits:
Mechanical/electronic recording - no interpretation/judgement by the officials in Neutral position
Uses well-established, reliable technology (think air tags, invisible fence, IOT package tracking, etc)
Promotes staying in the center of the mat in Neutral or even mat position.
Real consequences of outcomes in 1-point matches (think about the championship finals or even semifinals and how they would unfold very differently)
Reduces likelihood of "playing the edge" (retreating there) or fleeing mat to avoid TDs
Eliminates the impactful/judgement stall calls of 'push outs' under current rules

Risk/Detriment:
Requires new mats or retrofitting of existing mats
Requires software/hardware upgrades to clock/timing systems to interface with RFD system
Potential 2nd order unintended consequences so should be beta tested in at least 10 wrestling rooms/exhibitions/simulated matches
Could result in "pushing" opponent into 5' ring (not unlike what happens currently at OB line to earn stall call but would minimize impact)

Feel free to comment. Best ideas result from challenging the underlying premises and thinking about the 2nd and 3rd order ramifications.
 
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