Is UNC about to enter an Indiana-like canyon?

[Robcatt24]

An academic scandal is hanging over Chapel Hill. Which I happen to think is going to hit them much harder than most think.

Their recruiting for next year is in the gutter. Just a single 3 star.

They are being owned by their archrival down the road, both on the court and in recruiting.

The loss to Duke tonight gives them a 3rd straight double digit loss season.

Will the Heels be joining the Hoosiers in oblivion?

 

[TankedCat]

I'm not sure who goes pro - but my UNC friends are operating on the belief that they'll all be back and be a top 5 team.

After that ...who knows

 

[OldBlueNuts]

The powder blue population will soon be a spiraling vortex of despair!

 

[Xception]

They are on the precipice , the deciding factors will be the rulings on their scandal . It's clearly hurt them thus far but if they were to avoid justice it becomes a radically different recovery process . But to answer your question I'm going to say no they will not be in a prolonged decline like Indiana .

The reason is that UNC's entire support system from administration , professors , boosters and fans will go to any length to be good at basketball , just look at their behavior now and tell me why they would change going forward . They can't even admit their shortcomings or take responsibility for their action , they still tout athletic graduation rates with no shame .

 

[Cawood86_rivals]

I just have no faith that the NCAA will do anything to them. Blatant cheating and complete academic fraud.

 

[P.PattersonISwalkingthruthatdoor]

If the NCAA punishes them even remotely close to the way they should be punished, then they won't sniff a Final Four for at least a decade.

However, if the NCAA takes it easy on them and they make a decent hire after Roy retires, then they shouldn't have nearly the trouble IU has had.

 

[new era cat]

I think it would be a good idea for both programs to switch coaches.

 

[preacherfan]

The reason I think they might struggle is because they are now being watched and they know it. They can't just blatantly cheat and have lost AFAM. Other profs have to know they are risking their jobs to give out easy A's to athletes.

If UNC*** can't recruit the marginal student athlete, they will not win as many bball games. UNC***, for years, has recruited kids who never could make it academically without the cheating. That is why they cheated. Players like Walllace, Stackhouse, Cota, McCants, Peppers were all sub-par students.

Punishment or not, this scandal is affecting them and will continue to do so.

BTW, there will be some defections to the NBA. My source says at least 2. He says the players are struggling in some of their classes and he doesn't think some of them can continue.

 

[Rondoed]

Originally posted by Robcatt24:

An academic scandal is hanging over Chapel Hill. Which I happen to think is going to hit them much harder than most think.

Their recruiting for next year is in the gutter. Just a single 3 star.

They are being owned by their archrival down the road, both on the court and in recruiting.

The loss to Duke tonight gives them a 3rd straight double digit loss season.

Will the Heels be joining the Hoosiers in oblivion?

Like happened with Bobby Knight, Denny Crum, and Tubby Smith, Old Roy Williams has lost his mojo, too.

 

[blugrazz]

I cannot profess to understand the culture of IU basketball but having lived in Charlotte for 15 years I understand some about UNC. I do not see them living in the canyon that IU is living in. UNC is very much driven by the success of Duke and the desire to being comparably better than NC State. Those will be the initial driving forces for a recovery. I would think UK provides that same barometer to IU but I don't see it.

Furthermore, UNC and Duke are about to move into a new era after 30 plus years with Coach K and the Carolina Way. I dare to say it will not be as prosperous for either team as the last era was for both. Market forces may take the edge off basketball dominance for many possibly us too once Cal leaves and the NCAA continues to level the playing field.

 

[wcc31]

Roy has become Tubby. He's too lazy/disinterested/unable to get down and fight for the top recruits and it's killed him because, as '05 and '09 showed, he can only win titles with big time talent and big time experience.

 

[AnarchoNeoLuddite_rivals]

THey will be alot better next year. If they actually get to play in the post season is another matter.

 

[ukcatsfan1]

Originally posted by new era cat:
I think it would be a good idea for both programs to switch coaches.

And they recruit for the other team as well.....

 

[hoggwildcat]

With possibly penalties such post season band looming, it will hurt recruiting. Roy's most important off season recruiting will be to convince his current players on his roster, (most are juniors or younger) not to jump ship.

 

[Violent Cuts]

I think so. With their upcoming sanctions, which I'm convinced will be harsh + Roy retiring because of it, it will really hurt them for at least 5 years. If Syracuse must lose 108 wins, you'd think UNC will lose at least twice that many.

 

[Bluest Member]

Originally posted by Robcatt24:


An academic scandal is hanging over Chapel Hill. Which I happen to think is going to hit them much harder than most think.

Their recruiting for next year is in the gutter. Just a single 3 star.

They are being owned by their archrival down the road, both on the court and in recruiting.

The loss to Duke tonight gives them a 3rd straight double digit loss season.

Will the Heels be joining the Hoosiers in oblivion?

If and when they get hit with sanctions,something tells me they will be right back in business as soon as possible there.They can't even acknowledge there was an infraction ,let alone stop the cheating they have been doing for decades

 

[Chuckinden]

Originally posted by Cawood86:

I just have no faith that the NCAA will do anything to them. Blatant cheating and complete academic fraud.

The NCAA has to now after slamming Syracuse. It's not whether UNCheat gets punished, it's just how much.

 

[Neue Regel]

Preach are you sure about UNC having some NBA defections? Nobody hardly ever leaves these days. Their last OAD was in 2007 and they tried their best to pressure juniors bullock and Mcadoo to stay.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

I. for one, hope that the NCAA continues to take their sweet *** time with any and all investigations against UNC. The longer this drags out, the longer they suffer. Let the NCAA drop the hammer on 'em in 2025.

 

[truebluewildcat_rivals34254]

Unless NCAA gives them the SMU treatment, I don't see Tarheels going extinct...

Too big, too powerful...they have something that IU has never really had outside the state of Indiana, and that is a brand with mass appeal...there aren't a lot of die hard IU fans outside Indiana other than alumni...but kids in urban America who have no ties to UNC will wear tarheel gear, because its "cool" , because of MJ, because ESPN loves them and the ACC so much... Jordan Brand is now entrenched into the fabric of basketball culture and popular culture...MJ is also a Billionaire now...

So long as they are not banned from playing on TV....which may need to be a consideration...UNC with minor sanctions will still be able to grab elite talent...there will always be a couple OAD type kids who care nothing about chasing a title or getting less minutes in a platoon system, but would rather just pad their stats for a year and get some easy jersey chasing tail...

and tarheels may luck out in the end...by the time it would take them to get out of probation and shake loose any side effects, K and Boeheim may be gone...Pitino would be close if not already...Cal may be gone or nearing the end...and UVA probably will have enjoyed their time in the sun...
This post was edited on 3/8 3:08 PM by truebluewildcat

 

[Dutycat]

Originally posted by new era cat:
I think it would be a good idea for both programs to switch coaches.

Nice #3000. Sounds like a movie idea. They both go to make a deal with the devil, and he says they will leave their current job and land in a new position with a rich history and robust fan base...newly confident, then they go to sleep and wake up and are in each others bodies.

 

[preacherfan]

Originally posted by Neue Regel:
Preach are you sure about UNC having some NBA defections? Nobody hardly ever leaves these days. Their last OAD was in 2007 and they tried their best to pressure juniors bullock and Mcadoo to stay.

Nothing is sure at this point. But, there are clear and distinct rumblings of players leaving.

Bubba is trying to still the waters for players to sign on and for players to stay. The Syracuse announcement didn't go over so well with the AD's office. Thus, an attempt was made at damage control.

Things will get more interesting at Chapel Hill but how it completely plays out is anybody's guess. Afterall, there are still games to play and we are dealing with college kids who aren't always sure of what they are going to do.

 

[BBNinSC_rivals62411]

They were pre-season top 10 this year....

 

[yoshukai]

They will bounce right back just like we bounced out of our Eddie Sutton Canyon and Tubby Smith valley . IF THEY MAKE THE RIGHT HIRE .

 

[WallMash]

We are so lucky and so blessed to have Cal. The above poster thinks it's just the name on the jersey that makes your team bounce back, not so - look at Indiana. Todays recruits have no appreciation or concept of legacy and history. It was Cal and only cal that brought us back to the mountaintop.

As much as we hate rat face, he is the conductor of a train that puts Duke always in the top 5. He's probably the #2 coach in the nation in terms of recruiting effectiveness behind our coach. Bill Self is # 3.

If it had been anyone other than Cal who came in after BCG, (or the other two coaches mentioned above) we might be better than Indiana right now, or we might still be in the waist land.

 

[MNantz]

I sure hope so !! I know they wont but I hope they get lots worse that the orange got !! If they shut them down I would be a happy camper lol !

 

[kentuckyrld]

If the NCAA does not act by inflicting punishment or by completely closing the matter with no possibility of punishment in the future, the cloud hanging over the program is going to kill recruiting which, in effect, will be the same as being punished for the crime. UNC would be better off to accept the punishment and get through whatever it might be, get a new coach and in a couple of years start over.

 

[wildcatdonf]

Originally posted by preacherfan:

Originally posted by Neue Regel:
Preach are you sure about UNC having some NBA defections? Nobody hardly ever leaves these days. Their last OAD was in 2007 and they tried their best to pressure juniors bullock and Mcadoo to stay.

Nothing is sure at this point. But, there are clear and distinct rumblings of players leaving.

Bubba is trying to still the waters for players to sign on and for players to stay. The Syracuse announcement didn't go over so well with the AD's office. Thus, an attempt was made at damage control.

Things will get more interesting at Chapel Hill but how it completely plays out is anybody's guess. Afterall, there are still games to play and we are dealing with college kids who aren't always sure of what they are going to do.

What makes you think that anything major will happen to UNC given the history of the NCAA dealing with tough situations? I love your posts and trust your opinions.

 

[caneintally]

Originally posted by wcc31:
Roy has become Tubby. He's too lazy/disinterested/unable to get down and fight for the top recruits and it's killed him because, as '05 and '09 showed, he can only win titles with big time talent and big time experience.

I don't think it is this at all. He can't get the recruits because since Cal has gotten to UK most of the top guys go to UK when before they went to UNC . And by most i mean multiple top 10 guys . UNC used to get 1-3 top 10 guys almost yearly and now UK gets those and UNC is getting what UK used to get which is alot of top 35-125 guys . Also the scandel has killed them in the last 18 months or so as well. I remember after the Wall and Cousins class thinking this was the end for UNC who was the most powerful program from around 2005 -2009 due to dominating recruiting .

 

[Seth C]

Nah. The NCAA may even reward them for all their hard work. Give them extra scholarships!

 

[preacherfan]

Originally posted by wildcatdonf:

What makes you think that anything major will happen to UNC given the history of the NCAA dealing with tough situations? I love your posts and trust your opinions.

Don,

We have seen the NCAA do just about anything and everything. One of the main problems, that many on this board don't understand, is that situations can't be compared when there is a significant time lapse between them. What happened at UMass with Camby cannot be used as a model for how the NCAA will deal with UNC***, for example.

While I may be very wrong, I do think the Syracuse case does set some kind of precedent for the way the NCAA will deal wth UNC*** now. My biggest fear, however, is that the NCAA will use some kind of loopholes to avoid giving UNC*** what they deserve. UNC*** has hired big name attorneys, former NCAA staffers, a PR firm, and continuously covered up wrongdoing.

As I like to say.....we shall see.....

 

[83Cat_rivals79182]

Originally posted by WildcatfaninOhio:
I. for one, hope that the NCAA continues to take their sweet *** time with any and all investigations against UNC. The longer this drags out, the longer they suffer. Let the NCAA drop the hammer on 'em in 2025.

True. How can they recruit with this hanging over them?

 

[ugliestmouse]

There were several fans of other teams that thought the same thing when UK got in trouble with Sutton. Kentucky came back much sooner than everyone thought they would. God bless Jamal Mashburn! And yes, Rick Pitino, too.

North Carolina has the fan base and tradition to come back quickly. Whether they will or not (or even get the boom lowered on them) remains to be seen.

 

[preacherfan]

Originally posted by SebastianToombes:
There were several fans of other teams that thought the same thing when UK got in trouble with Sutton. Kentucky came back much sooner than everyone thought they would. God bless Jamal Mashburn! And yes, Rick Pitino, too.

North Carolina has the fan base and tradition to come back quickly. Whether they will or not (or even get the boom lowered on them) remains to be seen.

But, the question remains how in the world can they keep some of the kids they recruit eligible? I don't think the kids who typically go to Duke are, all of a sudden, going to switch and go to UNC*** because UNC*** now requires their bball players to take real classes.

 

[UKUGA]

I think they are a different caliber of program than Indiana.

It helps them that they have won a title post-Smith. They have shown that they are a legitimate power, and not just living off the glory of a coaching legend.

The facilities are better than IUs. They have a great in-state rivalry and play in an exciting conference. etc.

They will be fine long-term.

 

[Ineverplayedthegame]

Only if they make a series of coaching hires of incompetents like Mike Davis and Tom Crean with an incompetent cheater like Sampson in between.

 

[caneintally]

Originally posted by preacherfan:

Originally posted by wildcatdonf:

What makes you think that anything major will happen to UNC given the history of the NCAA dealing with tough situations? I love your posts and trust your opinions.

Don,

We have seen the NCAA do just about anything and everything. One of the main problems, that many on this board don't understand, is that situations can't be compared when there is a significant time lapse between them. What happened at UMass with Camby cannot be used as a model for how the NCAA will deal with UNC***, for example.

While I may be very wrong, I do think the Syracuse case does set some kind of precedent for the way the NCAA will deal wth UNC*** now. My biggest fear, however, is that the NCAA will use some kind of loopholes to avoid giving UNC*** what they deserve. UNC*** has hired big name attorneys, former NCAA staffers, a PR firm, and continuously covered up wrongdoing.

As I like to say.....we shall see.....

THE NCAA is going to hammer UNC . period. I know why guys like Don say the things they do but they are just flat out wrong . Way too much has been made of this by people like the Wall Street journal and so on that is can't be swept under the rug . UNC will get worse then Cuse and while it won't be enough it will set UNC back for a long while . Cuse after next year won't be relevant for at least 6-8 years and UNC is going to get hitter twice as hard. I love it and they deserve it .