June 4, 1942, the Miracle at Midway

[nittanymoops]

Possibly the most unexpected battle result in human history.

Despite having the intel, our boys still had to execute a risky plan. And it all came down to timing, sweet fortuitous timing. Five, maybe ten minutes of intensity few people will ever experience.

And being so remote, there are no big onsite commemorations. It tends to get forgotten two days before the Sixth of June '44.

So take a moment to remember the handful of pilots that managed to turn the tide in the Pacific 83 years ago.

Battle of Midway - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[JohnJumba]

Story Channel running D Day stories all day.

 

[EricStratton-RushChairman]

I can't imagine the feelings and emotions that must of overcome the special intelligence gathering group (working in a basement at Pearl, and largely dismissed by mainstream military intelligence organization) must have had the moment they realized they confirmed the Japanese code name for Midway. The entire Pacific war pivoted at that very moment. For sure there was luck still needed during the actual battle, like the Japanese commander's indecision about bombs/torpedoes for counter strike... but that moment in time when they all knew they had the Japanese dead to rights on their invasion plans must have been incredible.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

The Battle of Midway | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans

One of Japan’s main goals during World War II was to remove the United States as a Pacific power in order to gain territory in east Asia and the southwest Pacific islands. Japan hoped to defeat the US Pacific Fleet and use Midway as a base to attack Pearl Harbor, securing dominance in the region...

www.nationalww2museum.org

 

[SleepyLion]

Possibly the most unexpected battle result in human history.

Despite having the intel, our boys still had to execute a risky plan. And it all came down to timing, sweet fortuitous timing. Five, maybe ten minutes of intensity few people will ever experience.

And being so remote, there are no big onsite commemorations. It tends to get forgotten two days before the Sixth of June '44.

So take a moment to remember the handful of pilots that managed to turn the tide in the Pacific 83 years ago.

Battle of Midway - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The battle of Midway was June of 1942, months after the attack on Pearl Harbor and 2 years prior to D-day.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

First Strike at Midway: Attacking and Discovering IJN Kaga | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans

As Dusty Kleiss pulled away from the Japanese fleet, he kicked rudder in his Dauntless and looked back at his target. Kaga was undergoing a series of explosions that utterly eviscerated the ship, exposing her innards like some disemboweled animal.

www.nationalww2museum.org

 

[nittanymoops]

The Battle of Midway | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans

One of Japan’s main goals during World War II was to remove the United States as a Pacific power in order to gain territory in east Asia and the southwest Pacific islands. Japan hoped to defeat the US Pacific Fleet and use Midway as a base to attack Pearl Harbor, securing dominance in the region...

www.nationalww2museum.org

The museum in New Orleans is amazing. Spent several hours there last month on a Saturday and barely scratched the surface. Loved that the ties with Stephen Ambrose meant that there were several mentions and videos of Dick Winters talking as well.

 

[nittanymoops]

The battle of Midway was June of 1942, months after the attack on Pearl Harbor and 2 years prior to D-day.

Trust me, I know when each battle occurred. I can understand your confusion due to my prose, but it's correct in the thread title, and I hoped the context made that clear.

 

[razpsu]

Possibly the most unexpected battle result in human history.

Despite having the intel, our boys still had to execute a risky plan. And it all came down to timing, sweet fortuitous timing. Five, maybe ten minutes of intensity few people will ever experience.

And being so remote, there are no big onsite commemorations. It tends to get forgotten two days before the Sixth of June '44.

So take a moment to remember the handful of pilots that managed to turn the tide in the Pacific 83 years ago.

Battle of Midway - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In many ways, Like Lee at Gettysburg, the underdog that up to that point was doing well in the war, moving into enemy territory, Japanese got to cute at midway and sent two of their 8 carriers to the Aleutian’s to try and trick nimitz. He didn’t go for it.
The other two Light carriers were back with the main group of battleships etc and beat Yamamoto and nagumo at their own game by destroying the lead group of fleet carriers that the Japanese navy couldn’t afford to lose.

this battle was the turning point of the war and it doesn’t get recognized as well as it should.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

 

[Tom McAndrew]

 

[BobPSU92]

Three carriers sunk in five minutes?

A$$. BEATING.

 

[LionJim]

Three carriers sunk in five minutes?

A$$. BEATING.

Yeah, it's a great story. One flight got lost and arrived after the Japanese figured the worst was over, got the last carrier. Think about this: if you're a Japanese pilot and you're in the middle of the ocean and all your carriers are either sunk or burning, that would put a damper on your day. I've read "Incredible Victory" by Walter Lord a hundred times.

 

[WestSideLion]

Yeah, it's a great story. One flight got lost and arrived after the Japanese figured the worst was over, got the last carrier. Think about this: if you're a Japanese pilot and you're in the middle of the ocean and all your carriers are either sunk or burning, that would put a damper on your day. I've read "Incredible Victory" by Walter Lord a hundred times.

I always assumed that all the Japanese pilots in the air died after their planes ran out of fuel. I may do some reading on that since their fleet still had numerous escort ships in the area.

The loss of carriers hurt but so did the high losses of experienced pilots. That country just couldn’t afford a war of attrition and logistics. Neither could Germany.

 

[LionJim]

I always assumed that all the Japanese pilots in the air died after their planes ran out of fuel. I may do some reading on that since their fleet still had numerous escort ships in the area.

The loss of carriers hurt but so did the high losses of experienced pilots. That country just couldn’t afford a war of attrition and logistics. Neither could Germany.

I suppose that the pilots had been trained to ditch their planes in such situations. Yeah, top-notch pilots.

 

[razpsu]

So in 1 month, coral sea and midway. Japanese lost 6 fleet carriers. Ouch.

 

[PSUAVLNC]

The U.S. Navy went and slugged it out with a superior force and won. It was all chance. They caught the Japanese refueling and rearming their planes. The entire war changed that day.

 

[nittanymoops]

So in 1 month, coral sea and midway. Japanese lost 6 fleet carriers. Ouch.

Neither Shokaku nor Zuikaku were sunk at Coral Sea. The escort/light carrier Shoho was sunk ("Scratch one flattop!") by Lexington and Yorktown aircrews.

Shokaku was damaged by a couple bomb hits and Zuikaku aircrews were ravaged. There is some question about IJN regs and why Shokaku's air crew wasn't just transferred to Zuikaku for the Midway op. And, considering Yorktown was also heavily damaged in the May 7-8 Coral Sea confrontation and made it back to Pearl for 72 hours of around the clock repairs before sailing to Midway, there are questions about why Shokaku wasn't repaired with the same alacrity. Another one or two decks might've made a difference.

Considering Nimitz was about to get a couple dozen Essex-class carriers, the IJN never had a chance regardless what happened at Midway.

 

[19333lion]

Especially remember the torpedo plane pilots and crew who were decimated by the Japanese. Their torpedoes sucked and they had to fly right into devastating AA fire. The dive bombers avenged them.

 

[LionJim]

Especially remember the torpedo plane pilots and crew who were decimated by the Japanese. Their torpedoes sucked and they had to fly right into devastating AA fire. The dive bombers avenged them.

Yes, the first wave from Sand Island. Green pilots. I am humbled to think of their sacrifice.

 

[WestSideLion]

Neither Shokaku nor Zuikaku were sunk at Coral Sea. The escort/light carrier Shoho was sunk ("Scratch one flattop!") by Lexington and Yorktown aircrews.

Shokaku was damaged by a couple bomb hits and Zuikaku aircrews were ravaged. There is some question about IJN regs and why Shokaku's air crew wasn't just transferred to Zuikaku for the Midway op. And, considering Yorktown was also heavily damaged in the May 7-8 Coral Sea confrontation and made it back to Pearl for 72 hours of around the clock repairs before sailing to Midway, there are questions about why Shokaku wasn't repaired with the same alacrity. Another one or two decks might've made a difference.

Considering Nimitz was about to get a couple dozen Essex-class carriers, the IJN never had a chance regardless what happened at Midway.

The US had 101 carriers at the end of WWII. Japan never had a chance. Midway and these operations simply would have delayed the inevitable

Japan lacked the natural resources and industry to keep up. Many forget that the quick land grab would not have yielded real resources for years.

 

[Roar More]

Another stroke of luck was triggered by the USS Nautilus, a submarine. It had been spotted by the IJN and a destroyer was dispatched to deal with the Nautilus without success. One of the US carrier dive bomber groups could not locate the Japanese fleet, but they did spot the destroyer hightailing it back to join the carriers. The Dauntlesses followed the line of the destroyer straight to the carriers.

The unsuccessful attack by the torpedo planes had the effect of drawing the Japanese fighter cover to the deck to deal with them. There were no fighters at the higher altitudes to greet the dive bombers when they arrived.

In short, the USN got every conceivable break. Even the bad luck of a disjointed attack worked in our favor.

 

[DaytonRickster]

Possibly the most unexpected battle result in human history.

Despite having the intel, our boys still had to execute a risky plan. And it all came down to timing, sweet fortuitous timing. Five, maybe ten minutes of intensity few people will ever experience.

And being so remote, there are no big onsite commemorations. It tends to get forgotten two days before the Sixth of June '44.

So take a moment to remember the handful of pilots that managed to turn the tide in the Pacific 83 years ago.

Battle of Midway - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Incredibly brave men. Their actions turned the tide of the war. If they had not been successful it might have been the end game for the Pacific theatre.

 

[razpsu]

Neither Shokaku nor Zuikaku were sunk at Coral Sea. The escort/light carrier Shoho was sunk ("Scratch one flattop!") by Lexington and Yorktown aircrews.

Shokaku was damaged by a couple bomb hits and Zuikaku aircrews were ravaged. There is some question about IJN regs and why Shokaku's air crew wasn't just transferred to Zuikaku for the Midway op. And, considering Yorktown was also heavily damaged in the May 7-8 Coral Sea confrontation and made it back to Pearl for 72 hours of around the clock repairs before sailing to Midway, there are questions about why Shokaku wasn't repaired with the same alacrity. Another one or two decks might've made a difference.

Considering Nimitz was about to get a couple dozen Essex-class carriers, the IJN never had a chance regardless what happened at Midway.

Think they were counting on the 2 light carriers they had as well as other carriers that had scout planes on them all with the main invasion group. Ooops.

 

[Bkmtnittany1]

I always wanted Hanks/Spielberg to do a series on a Navy fighter crew

 

[razpsu]

I always wanted Hanks/Spielberg to do a series on a Navy fighter crew

Closest to a series.

 

[ApexLion]

After reading these accounts, you ask yourself 'are people too soft now or would they be selfless if needed?' Just a rhetorical question and no I'm not casting shade on young people. Just wondering when you realize that these very young men are flying planes at 80 degrees downward towards an aircraft carrier or storming a beach under enemy fire or fighting hand to hand in a Pacific jungle.

 

[LionJim]

After reading these accounts, you ask yourself 'are people too soft now or would they be selfless if needed?' Just a rhetorical question and no I'm not casting shade on young people. Just wondering when you realize that these very young men are flying planes at 80 degrees downward towards an aircraft carrier or storming a beach under enemy fire or fighting hand to hand in a Pacific jungle.

Zero worries for me.

 

[ApexLion]

Zero worries for me.

In what way? Elaborate?

 

[LionJim]

In what way? Elaborate?

You asked, “are people too soft now or would they be selfless if needed?” Extrapolating from what I’ve seen of my college students, I feel comfortable answering no, not soft, and yes, they would be selfless if needed.

 

[EricStratton-RushChairman]

It is not often talked about in relation to Midway but the Japanese committing a task force to invade the Aleutian Islands may have also had an impact on losses at Midway. The Japanese believed they could build a large airstrip capable of supporting bombing missions to west coast. The U.S. already knew the ground/soil wouldn't support such a airbase. The attacking force included 2 non-fleet carriers, 5 cruiser, and 12+ destroyers/subs... all resources pulled away from Midway.

 

[LionJim]

It is not often talked about in relation to Midway but the Japanese committing a task force to invade the Aleutian Islands may have also had an impact on losses at Midway. The Japanese believed they could build a large airstrip capable of supporting bombing missions to west coast. The U.S. already knew the ground/soil wouldn't support such a airbase. The attacking force included 2 non-fleet carriers, 5 cruiser, and 12+ destroyers/subs... all resources pulled away from Midway.

Did not know this.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

In a first, explorers at WWII shipwreck discover aircraft from legendary Battle of Midway

A remotely operated camera found surprising relics, including a plane that still had a bomb secured to it.

www.cbsnews.com

USS Yorktown Rediscovered: 2025 Dives Reveal New Clues from the Battle of Midway - Vintage Aviation News

More than 80 years after her heroic stand at the Battle of Midway, the USS Yorktown (CV-5) continues to reveal her secrets from the ocean floor. In April 2025, NOAA-led dives reached deep into the Pacific to explore the sunken aircraft carrier’s hangar deck for the first time—uncovering...

vintageaviationnews.com

 

[Tom McAndrew]

https://www.usni.org/magazines/naval-history/2025/june/timeless-lessons-messaging-after-midway

 

[Tom McAndrew]

5 Things You Might Not Know About the Battle of Midway | HISTORY

The mighty clash between Japanese and U.S. naval forces in June 1942 ended in a stunning—and surprising—Allied victory.

www.history.com

 

[Tom McAndrew]

https://www.usni.org/magazines/naval-history-magazine/2017/june/grading-midways-commanders

 

[nittanymoops]

Outstanding finds, Tom! Good stuff within.

 

[nittanymoops]

Did not know this.

Stratton is correct here. The Aleutian force was accompanied by two light carriers. While ostensibly they could have factored into the Midway battle, IJN carrier wings were smaller than ours. The lack of radar for the IJN was a huge disadvantage, and their damage control and firefighting capabilities were very poor. The analogy of the IJN having a glass jaw has been made many times — it could punch but couldn’t take a punch of equal strength.

Also, the Aleutian thrust was often portrayed as a feint, meant to draw out the American carriers. Subsequent research has proved that it was actually an intended offensive, although another leg or two would’ve been necessary for Japanese bombers to hit the Lower 48.

The lack of clear intel on the part of the Japanese was another part of the plan that doomed them. While they intended Operation K to check on the status of the fleet at Pearl Harbor, when that failed roughly a week prior, they had absolutely no idea where the US carriers were — precisely how we were caught flat footed 12/7/1941.

In reality, Japan was doomed when its fleet left anchorage in November 1941. The die was cast and it had no actual hope of winning a war with the US. Yamamoto knew this, knew he could wreak havoc for 6-12 months but otherwise he was given a hopeless task. US industrial might was an inconvenient fact that no amount of victories in 1942 could ever hope to overcome.

Tom’s posts, while outstanding on their own, also offer in the citations further opportunities for reading. While “Miracle at Midway” and “Incredible Victory” are outstanding works, there have been additional findings which add to our picture and knowledge of the battle.

 

[LionJim]

Stratton is correct here. The Aleutian force was accompanied by two light carriers. While ostensibly they could have factored into the Midway battle, IJN carrier wings were smaller than ours. The lack of radar for the IJN was a huge disadvantage, and their damage control and firefighting capabilities were very poor. The analogy of the IJN having a glass jaw has been made many times — it could punch but couldn’t take a punch of equal strength.

Also, the Aleutian thrust was often portrayed as a feint, meant to draw out the American carriers. Subsequent research has proved that it was actually an intended offensive, although another leg or two would’ve been necessary for Japanese bombers to hit the Lower 48.

The lack of clear intel on the part of the Japanese was another part of the plan that doomed them. While they intended Operation K to check on the status of the fleet at Pearl Harbor, when that failed roughly a week prior, they had absolutely no idea where the US carriers were — precisely how we were caught flat footed 12/7/1941.

In reality, Japan was doomed when its fleet left anchorage in November 1941. The die was cast and it had no actual hope of winning a war with the US. Yamamoto knew this, knew he could wreak havoc for 6-12 months but otherwise he was given a hopeless task. US industrial might was an inconvenient fact that no amount of victories in 1942 could ever hope to overcome.

Tom’s posts, while outstanding on their own, also offer in the citations further opportunities for reading. While “Miracle at Midway” and “Incredible Victory” are outstanding works, there have been additional findings which add to our picture and knowledge of the battle.

Yes, Yamamoto had been educated in the US and had no illusions about Japan’s ability to defeat the United States.

Incredible Victory was published in 1968 and Lord is upfront about what he didn’t know, especially regarding which flight destroyed which carrier. For example (I’m paraphrasing, as I no longer have the book) Richard Best said that his flight destroyed Carrier A, as its superstructure was on its port side, his #1 wingman William Roberts said no, it couldn’t have been Carrier A because the superstructure was “very clearly and unmistakably” on the starboard side. But boy what a thrilling book for a 12-year-old to read.

 

[LionJim]

Yes, Yamamoto had been educated in the US and had no illusions about Japan’s ability to defeat the United States.

Incredible Victory was published in 1968 and Lord is upfront about what he didn’t know, especially regarding which flight destroyed which carrier. For example (I’m paraphrasing, as I no longer have the book) Richard Best said that his flight destroyed Carrier A, as its superstructure was on its port side, his #1 wingman William Roberts said no, it couldn’t have been Carrier A because the superstructure was “very clearly and unmistakably” on the starboard side. But boy what a thrilling book for a 12-year-old to read.

Best is buried at Arlington. I’ll look him up next time I go.