Just listened to NFL People Describe a NT in the 3-4 (Elam)

[bballcat4]

I just listened on radio to some NFL people describe the NT position in a 3-4 defense. They obviously were talking NFL, but it made me think the range of comments about Elam. They stated that the NT's responsibilities are to: 1) Eat up blocks, making room for lb's to fill gaps. 2) Stop teams from running up the middle. 3) Great NT's eat up 2 blocks.

They went on to say that the NT position is not graded by stats because this position doesn't fill many stats that the fans look at. But, fb coaches look at film and can tell you how good a NT is, regardless of the stats.

The only film I get to watch is from rewinding the game on my television. This angle is almost always a wide angle view and doesn't focus on one player.

My only reason for posting this is because many people only look at stats. If you were expecting Elam to fill up the stat sheet then you will always be disappointed in his performance. His value (any NT's value) will be determined by the criteria mentioned above.

Looking forward to the upcoming season.

 

[NamelessOne]

I just listened on radio to some NFL people describe the NT position in a 3-4 defense. They obviously were talking NFL, but it made me think the range of comments about Elam. They stated that the NT's responsibilities are to: 1) Eat up blocks, making room for lb's to fill gaps. 2) Stop teams from running up the middle. 3) Great NT's eat up 2 blocks.

They went on to say that the NT position is not graded by stats because this position doesn't fill many stats that the fans look at. But, fb coaches look at film and can tell you how good a NT is, regardless of the stats.

The only film I get to watch is from rewinding the game on my television. This angle is almost always a wide angle view and doesn't focus on one player.

My only reason for posting this is because many people only look at stats. If you were expecting Elam to fill up the stat sheet then you will always be disappointed in his performance. His value (any NT's value) will be determined by the criteria mentioned above.

Looking forward to the upcoming season.

100% correct. I remember hearing an NFL scout several years ago say "Some of the highest paid defensive players in the league barely average 1 tackle a game" He was talking defensive tackle.

Elam is going to be on the draft radars this year.

 

[Mr Schwump]

I just listened on radio to some NFL people describe the NT position in a 3-4 defense. They obviously were talking NFL, but it made me think the range of comments about Elam. They stated that the NT's responsibilities are to: 1) Eat up blocks, making room for lb's to fill gaps. 2) Stop teams from running up the middle. 3) Great NT's eat up 2 blocks.

They went on to say that the NT position is not graded by stats because this position doesn't fill many stats that the fans look at. But, fb coaches look at film and can tell you how good a NT is, regardless of the stats.

The only film I get to watch is from rewinding the game on my television. This angle is almost always a wide angle view and doesn't focus on one player.

My only reason for posting this is because many people only look at stats. If you were expecting Elam to fill up the stat sheet then you will always be disappointed in his performance. His value (any NT's value) will be determined by the criteria mentioned above.

Looking forward to the upcoming season.

No, no, NO! Not only NO but HELL NO!! That's not what people want to hear, doesn't matter one iota if it's true. What some want is affirmation that a key UK player is nothing more than a fat over rated under achieving slob because that somehow makes them feel better about their own pissy little life. Truth is Matt Elam is a good player who is making progress(don't forget this guy should've had a RS year but was forced to play early because of limited numbers). UK's damn lucky to have him.

 

[bballcat4]

No, no, NO! Not only NO but HELL NO!! That's not what people want to hear, doesn't matter one iota if it's true. What some want is affirmation that a key UK player is nothing more than a fat over rated under achieving slob because that somehow makes them feel better about their own pissy little life. Truth is Matt Elam is a good player who is making progress(don't forget this guy should've had a RS year but was forced to play early because of limited numbers). UK's damn lucky to have him.

Ha. I agree. Many fans look up the stats and then conclude a player had a good or bad game.

I always laugh when a team gets down 3-4 td's and the defense goes into prevent mode, allowing 8-10 yards a play. The QB puts up 150 yards of meaningless yards, plus a td or 2. After the game everyone says the QB had a great game because he threw for 300+ yds and couple td's.

Stats don't tell the whole story.

 

[vhcat70]

Sounds like Elam needs to build up his belly.

 

[BigBlueTuckian]

A NT in the 3-4 has 2 jobs:

1) Take on the double team

2) Don't get moved

Do those successfully and you've done your job.

 

[EnPassant]

The problem is that when you watch UK play Elam is usually handled by one man - he doesn't require a double team.

 

[BigBlueTuckian]

Then that is a problem. He must command a double team on most plays. Only then can we have an advantage to make plays.

 

[CATFANFOLIFE87]

The problem is that when you watch UK play Elam is usually handled by one man - he doesn't require a double team.

I watched Elam in drills during fan day last year taking on two blockers. When Elam is fresh only the elite guys are going to be able to block him by themself. Elam will be a problem in the SEC when he is conditioned to last more snaps. I suspect that we will start to see that happen this year. Elam looks completely different than he did when he got here

 

[Lonesome Hippopotamus]

I love watching Matt Elam play. He is not only a mountain, but I can't wait for him to grow into that GIANT body of his and kick ***.

 

[Lonesome Hippopotamus]

Another thing we are forgetting.. the QB better be a tall guy to throw over him.. He is 6'7" and has a long reach when he puts his arms up.. making throwing hard and ability to bat down passes.

 

[GJNorman1]

Another thing we are forgetting.. the QB better be a tall guy to throw over him.. He is 6'7" and has a long reach when he puts his arms up.. making throwing hard and ability to bat down passes.

He is huge. But, I don't think he's really 6'7. He looks more 6'5 to me.

 

[Poetax]

The problem is that when you watch UK play Elam is usually handled by one man - he doesn't require a double team.

I hear you say that every time someone posts about him. I'm sure it's happens some but when I did pay attention in a game he had a double team on him a lot. He came because he would get to play. It hurt him that he didn't get that year to get stronger but I think he will be better this year.

 

[TBCat]

The problem is that when you watch UK play Elam is usually handled by one man - he doesn't require a double team.

I disagree with that. He was rarely handled by one blocker. There was a clear difference in our middle run defense when he was in the game. As we've pointed out on other thread UK wasn't vulnerable against the run up the middle last year it was the outside zones that destroyed us. That's on our outside LBs not Elam.

While everything in the above post is true it is also worth pointing out that Elam still isn't quite where they want him. A NT is basically a blocker for the LBs and the main role is to chew up blocks. However that doesn't mean that he gets to stand in one place to do it. Ideally you still want your NT to have some range to move down the line a little to chew up blocks. This something Elam doesn't do well right now. He's pretty stationary. Matt is a good but not great NT right now. He needs to increase his mobility a little to become a great one.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

I disagree with that. He was rarely handled by one blocker. There was a clear difference in our middle run defense when he was in the game. As we've pointed out on other thread UK wasn't vulnerable against the run up the middle last year it was the outside zones that destroyed us. That's on our outside LBs not Elam.

While everything in the above post is true it is also worth pointing out that Elam still isn't quite where they want him. A NT is basically a blocker for the LBs and the main role is to chew up blocks. However that doesn't mean that he gets to stand in one place to do it. Ideally you still want your NT to have some range to move down the line a little to chew up blocks. This something Elam doesn't do well right now. He's pretty stationary. Matt is a good but not great NT right now. He needs to increase his mobility a little to become a great one.

All of Elam's issues can be traced to his conditioning, or lack of it. His quickness, stamina and flexibility would all improve if he gets himself in condition. Doing so would also allow him to play with better fundamentals by staying low and demanding double teams instead of popping up and being handled by a single blocker which happened quite a bit last season. The picture of him someone posted a few days back he looked much better physically than they last season and I would expect him to play much better. I know he didn't want one and UK needed the depth, but he needed a RS when he arrived, could have been part of the deal with Stoops to not take one too. But he looks to be in much better physical condition now than even 4 months ago.

 

[G_Money]

All of Elam's issues can be traced to his conditioning, or lack of it. His quickness, stamina and flexibility would all improve if he gets himself in condition. Doing so would also allow him to play with better fundamentals by staying low and demanding double teams instead of popping up and being handled by a single blocker which happened quite a bit last season. The picture of him someone posted a few days back he looked much better physically than they last season and I would expect him to play much better. I know he didn't want one and UK needed the depth, but he needed a RS when he arrived, could have been part of the deal with Stoops to not take one too. But he looks to be in much better physical condition now than even 4 months ago.

Clearly, you aren't THAT grumpy and just as clearly, you are VERY knowledgeable about football! I always get a lot from your posts! So thanks for contributing! I played nose tackle in HS - we called it monster - and you're spot on. One of Kentucky's best was a bull of a NT under Curci. His name was Bubba McCollum. He filled the los like few players I've had the pleasure of watching!

 

[TBCat]

All of Elam's issues can be traced to his conditioning, or lack of it. His quickness, stamina and flexibility would all improve if he gets himself in condition. Doing so would also allow him to play with better fundamentals by staying low and demanding double teams instead of popping up and being handled by a single blocker which happened quite a bit last season. The picture of him someone posted a few days back he looked much better physically than they last season and I would expect him to play much better. I know he didn't want one and UK needed the depth, but he needed a RS when he arrived, could have been part of the deal with Stoops to not take one too. But he looks to be in much better physical condition now than even 4 months ago.

No doubt. They clearly don't want him at 360 pounds. 330 or 340 would be better. I still have doubts that he is actually 360 really.

 

[WildCard]

All of Elam's issues can be traced to his conditioning, or lack of it. His quickness, stamina and flexibility would all improve if he gets himself in condition. Doing so would also allow him to play with better fundamentals by staying low and demanding double teams instead of popping up and being handled by a single blocker which happened quite a bit last season. The picture of him someone posted a few days back he looked much better physically than they last season and I would expect him to play much better. I know he didn't want one and UK needed the depth, but he needed a RS when he arrived, could have been part of the deal with Stoops to not take one too. But he looks to be in much better physical condition now than even 4 months ago.

Agree 100%!

He is a tall guy and, going into his 3rd year, he is still (IMO) carrying wayyyy too much weight (360 lbs ???). He is usually the last guy on either line to get down in his stance suggesting to me he is "uncomfortable" in a good defensive stance. "Shorter" interior DLs do have an advantage in playing low. He cannot do anything about his height but he can shed belly fat. His other technique problem is, more often than not, he "catches a blow" rather than "delivers a blow". i.e., no charge out of his stance, especially after having played a few downs. And you simply cannot "deliver a blow" when you are raising up.

Other than QBs, I have probably watched him closer than any UK player. Regardless, he has been one of UK's most scrutinized players the past 2 years. He was clearly not ready to play as a t-FR. He played some and contributed very little; certainly not enough to burn a red shirt. JMO, but it was likely a recruiting "promise or message" that you will get a chance to play early at UK.

It is hard to tell from the normal sideline camera shots but I think he plays in a 1 tech about as much as a 0 tech (most 3-4 teams are not 100% 0 tech with the NT). He is/can be reasonably effective defender if in a 1 technique to the play side but just plays too high to be an effective 2 gap DT or make a play outside his gap.. IOW, if you play him in a 1 tech he can usually hold that gap but will likely not make a play outside of that gap. If you play him in a 0 tech, he may get "combo-ed" but seldom demands a true double team. All JMO.

Peace

 

[Mr Schwump]

Agree 100%!

He is a tall guy and, going into his 3rd year, he is still (IMO) carrying wayyyy too much weight (360 lbs ???). He is usually the last guy on either line to get down in his stance suggesting to me he is "uncomfortable" in a good defensive stance. "Shorter" interior DLs do have an advantage in playing low. He cannot do anything about his height but he can shed belly fat. His other technique problem is, more often than not, he "catches a blow" rather than "delivers a blow". i.e., no charge out of his stance, especially after having played a few downs. And you simply cannot "deliver a blow" when you are raising up.

Other than QBs, I have probably watched him closer than any UK player. Regardless, he has been one of UK's most scrutinized players the past 2 years. He was clearly not ready to play as a t-FR. He played some and contributed very little; certainly not enough to burn a red shirt. JMO, but it was likely a recruiting "promise or message" that you will get a chance to play early at UK.

It is hard to tell from the normal sideline camera shots but I think he plays in a 1 tech about as much as a 0 tech (most 3-4 teams are not 100% 0 tech with the NT). He is/can be reasonably effective defender if in a 1 technique to the play side but just plays too high to be an effective 2 gap DT or make a play outside his gap.. IOW, if you play him in a 1 tech he can usually hold that gap but will likely not make a play outside of that gap. If you play him in a 0 tech, he may get "combo-ed" but seldom demands a true double team. All JMO.

Peace

No to go any further with this thread, the epic UL homer has blessed us with his all-knowing wisdom. Lock it up mods. All JMO of course.

 

[Ctroberts1024]

Our problem last year wasn't with Elam necessarily. Forrest and Flannigan did a TERRIBLE job of attacking the line of scrimmage. No where near enough TFLs

 

[UKani]

Matt Elam is actually a player getting better, he ended the season much better than he started the season last year. He's still got a ways to go but he's on track... If I were to pick a word to describe him I'd say he's inconsistent. Matt Elam will command a double team but not all the time, other times he's solid in there, but he's only eating one block, and sometimes he gets put on skates, which means he gets pushed back. Towards the end of the season he was getting put on skates less, however he couldn't stay in for many snaps.... Part of Matt Elam's problem is still technique, he's too high a lot. Being his height and playing Nose Tackle really works against him, so he has to work harder than shorter guys. But if he ever gets his leverage right, he can be more consistent and for a longer period of time.... The way you command extra blocks is with your leverage and its harder for that taller guy to get that leverage...

 

[hmt5000]

Mount Cody wasn't setting the world on fire til his senior year then all the sudden he was an immovable object, sack machine, the guy, kick blocker and all around bad ***.

Guys that big need time. Even at Bama Elam would not be contributing til this year and wouldn't be dominating til his Sr year.

 

[laxcat#5]

Elam rarely ate up 2 blockers last season when I was watching him.

 

[shutzhund]

No to go any further with this thread, the epic UL homer has blessed us with his all-knowing wisdom. Lock it up mods. All JMO of course.

UL or UK he knows football and doesn't just post half baked opinions. Even if he is "the epic UL homer" I wish we had more of his observations and less of the type you contributed here.

 

[Mr Schwump]

UL or UK he knows football and doesn't just post half baked opinions. Even if he is "the epic UL homer" I wish we had more of his observations and less of the type you contributed here.[/QUOTE


Some are fooled easier than others, easy to see where you fall. JMO of course.

 

[WildCard]

UL or UK he knows football and doesn't just post half baked opinions. Even if he is "the epic UL homer" I wish we had more of his observations and less of the type you contributed here.

Thanks for the kind words shutzhund!

I generally try to post only on "football topics" and avoid the cesspool threads. And I enjoy respectful debates and discussions on all football topics. But there are some here (as there are on all boards) who are simply "haters". They cannot see beyond their own team, have little knowledge of the game and see any criticism of their team as disparagement of their team.

To such people your user name and where you are registered makes more of a difference than does what you actually post. Note that one of the most respected posters on this board (UKani) comes in just 2 posts after schwump's comments with exactly the same observations as I made and there is no derogatory comments from schwump and those like him.

Peace

 

[Mr Schwump]

Thanks for the kind words shutzhund!

I generally try to post only on "football topics" and avoid the cesspool threads. And I enjoy respectful debates and discussions on all football topics. But there are some here (as there are on all boards) who are simply "haters". They cannot see beyond their own team, have little knowledge of the game and see any criticism of their team as disparagement of their team.

To such people your user name and where you are registered makes more of a difference than does what you actually post. Note that one of the most respected posters on this board (UKani) comes in just 2 posts after schwump's comments with exactly the same observations as I made and there is no derogatory comments from schwump and those like him.

Peace

There, there Wildcard...it'll be OK. You've managed to fool enough people on here with your "fan of both teams" bilge to buy yourself some time. Here's the rub with you...the next comment you make even remotely critical of UL will be your first. On the other hand, you're constantly belching tripe about anything Stoops/UK. And that's OK just don't pretend you're a UK fan because your hate for all things UK shows thru. But as I said, some are easily fooled and led. One look at the current election cycle shows that.

 

[BigBoyBlueMMA]

A NT in the 3-4 has 2 jobs:

1) Take on the double team

2) Don't get moved

Do those successfully and you've done your job.

I'll add Clog and Push the pocket

 

[shutzhund]

Schump, post something insightful about football or basketball just to show you're not just an envy driven, hot air ballon. Who knows you could be a star and not just a lump. Here's hoping but not optimistic.

 

[BigBlueTuckian]

I'll add Clog and Push the pocket

It's an added bonus. But being able to command a double team makes it 10 defenders vs 8 offensive guys + the QB. Mathematical advantage goes to the defense.

But yes, if a NT in the 3-4 can do his job plus other things like collapsing the pocket, TFLs, sacks, batted passes, force fumbles, QB hurries, etc. then those are all added bonuses. Very few elite DTs can do this. Keep in mind that a team that plays 4-3 defense and has 2 elite DTs will always have one of them single-blocked. This doesn't happen often. Think of Miami Hurricanes 2001.

 

[Mr Schwump]

Schump, post something insightful about football or basketball just to show you're not just an envy driven, hot air ballon. Who knows you could be a star and not just a lump. Here's hoping but not optimistic.

Can't, I've read too much of your stuff.

 

[Gary4UK]

I just listened on radio to some NFL people describe the NT position in a 3-4 defense. They obviously were talking NFL, but it made me think the range of comments about Elam. They stated that the NT's responsibilities are to: 1) Eat up blocks, making room for lb's to fill gaps. 2) Stop teams from running up the middle. 3) Great NT's eat up 2 blocks.

They went on to say that the NT position is not graded by stats because this position doesn't fill many stats that the fans look at. But, fb coaches look at film and can tell you how good a NT is, regardless of the stats.

The only film I get to watch is from rewinding the game on my television. This angle is almost always a wide angle view and doesn't focus on one player.

My only reason for posting this is because many people only look at stats. If you were expecting Elam to fill up the stat sheet then you will always be disappointed in his performance. His value (any NT's value) will be determined by the criteria mentioned above.

Looking forward to the upcoming season.

That's what I always said, that the nose tackle doesn't need the acceleration off the line... The nose tackle's job is a thankless job, and if he fills the middle and eats up space and blocks, then he's done his job.... Elam does this, plus teams can't run up the middle on Elam... To the outside, yea, but that's not on Elam... That's where DE's and linebackers protect those areas.... Elam has done a really good job as a freshman and soph, and really looks in good condition this year... If a 5* is supposed to be a sure NFL player, then I think that he deserved his ranking......

 

[shutzhund]

It looks like some don't understand what acceleration means. To neutralize the drive of the offensive blocker you must attack the blocker. Otherwise you accept the block and are not going to hold your position and a double team is not necessary.

Standing up and allowing the blocker to get underneath your pads makes you an easy block for the single blocker and allows the second man to ignore you, get into the second level and interfere with the linebackers.

When you hear that a nose tackle doesn't need acceleration off the line you are listening to the wrong guy no matter how good his intentions. He's thinking about a speed rusher not a nose tackle. Whole different type of acceleration.

Elam is too tall, too fat and too slow to be a good nose tackle but there's no other position on the field he can play. Lose thirty pounds plus and he probably would be more effective.

 

[BigBlueTuckian]

It looks like some don't understand what acceleration means. To neutralize the drive of the offensive blocker you must attack the blocker. Otherwise you accept the block and are not going to hold your position and a double team is not necessary.

Standing up and allowing the blocker to get underneath your pads makes you an easy block for the single blocker and allows the second man to ignore you, get into the second level and interfere with the linebackers.

When you hear that a nose tackle doesn't need acceleration off the line you are listening to the wrong guy no matter how good his intentions. He's thinking about a speed rusher not a nose tackle. Whole different type of acceleration.

Elam is too tall, too fat and too slow to be a good nose tackle but there's no other position on the field he can play. Lose thirty pounds plus and he probably would be more effective.

May be true to some extent because Elam is a NT in a 3-4 defense. What if we were playing a 4-3 defense? What if he had a very good DT playing right next to him every snap?

Still puzzled as to why UK runs a 3-4. Very few teams run that type of defense. A 3-4 requires you to have a monster NT (not just in size but in athletic ability also), and two huge yet fast DEs. Everyone knows that in a 3-4 the majority of tackles and sacks/TFLs are made by the LBs, but it is the speed, size, skill, and disruptive ability of your NT and 2 DEs that makes it possible for those LBs to get the stats. Again, a NTs disruptive ability doesn't mean be in the QBs face all day long. Simply by taking on a double team and not getting moved, the NT has disrupted the offense's interior running game and forced them to run outside. I don't think UK will ever have the right personnel to run a 3-4 and be good to dominant. This would require Pittsburgh Steelers type talent. At UK you need to take inferior talent and maximize it.

 

[Levibooty]

I disagree with that. He was rarely handled by one blocker. There was a clear difference in our middle run defense when he was in the game. As we've pointed out on other thread UK wasn't vulnerable against the run up the middle last year it was the outside zones that destroyed us. That's on our outside LBs not Elam.

While everything in the above post is true it is also worth pointing out that Elam still isn't quite where they want him. A NT is basically a blocker for the LBs and the main role is to chew up blocks. However that doesn't mean that he gets to stand in one place to do it. Ideally you still want your NT to have some range to move down the line a little to chew up blocks. This something Elam doesn't do well right now. He's pretty stationary. Matt is a good but not great NT right now. He needs to increase his mobility a little to become a great one.

I like this post and think it most fits what I think of Elam. I do have one question, Are you saying Elam was better against the run than Lewis?

 

[CardHack]

Matt Elam made Tobiah Hughley look like the 2nd coming of Dave Rimington.

I think his height works against him because he tends to stand straight up out of his stance and it seemed like as the season wore on it had a toll on him; it makes perfect sense since the injury to Melvin Lewis increased his reps to the extent it hurt his productivity.

 

[WildCard]

May be true to some extent because Elam is a NT in a 3-4 defense. What if we were playing a 4-3 defense? What if he had a very good DT playing right next to him every snap?

Still puzzled as to why UK runs a 3-4. Very few teams run that type of defense. A 3-4 requires you to have a monster NT (not just in size but in athletic ability also), and two huge yet fast DEs. Everyone knows that in a 3-4 the majority of tackles and sacks/TFLs are made by the LBs, but it is the speed, size, skill, and disruptive ability of your NT and 2 DEs that makes it possible for those LBs to get the stats. Again, a NTs disruptive ability doesn't mean be in the QBs face all day long. Simply by taking on a double team and not getting moved, the NT has disrupted the offense's interior running game and forced them to run outside. I don't think UK will ever have the right personnel to run a 3-4 and be good to dominant. This would require Pittsburgh Steelers type talent. At UK you need to take inferior talent and maximize it.

Actually quite a few teams now base out of the 3-4. Why? The simple answer is because the proliferation of the "spread offense", whether of the running or passing variety, has forced to the defense to get another "in space defender" (i.e., a LB or a DB) on the field. Defense built on 4 LBs or 5 DBs also have the advantage of being "more flexible" against hurry up offense when it is difficult to situationally substitute.

What a lot of fans don't really understand is that most 3-4 teams seldom play the NT purely in a 0 technique (i.e., head up on the center). I don't have numbers to support it but I think most 3-4 teams have moved to the so called "1 gap 3-4" where the NT will actually shade the center 1 side or the other (i.e., 1 technique). And 4-3 teams do the same thing with one of the DTs playing a 1 tech and the other DT playing a 3 tech. Seldom do you see a a "balanced" 4 man front.

Another often misunderstood point is that "holding your gap" disrupts the run game. Not necessarily true. What really stops the run game is penetration by the interior DL to spill the run horizontally where others can make the tackle. Penetration is not about making a TFL but it requires a good initial charge into the OL to "move" the LOS a yard or 2 into the offensive backfield.

Peace