Kirk Ciarrocca going back to MInn & Reagan or Matt Moore to leave for Troy??

Jun 27, 2018
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It appears PJ Fleck is aiming to bring back Kirk Ciarrocca for another round as OC after firing their current OC... If that happens, that kinda sucks, I was hoping to keep Kirk on staff for at least 1 more year, possibly promoting to Co-OC... Well, lets hope his time spent in Morgantown at least provided some new perspectives to the staff for the future...

If that happens, curious who we may get to replace him as an analyst?? There are also rumors that Troy's new HC(Jon Sumrall) he may seek to bring Matt Moore and/or Sean Reagan to lead Troy's offense.

I suppose we shall see how this all plays out. Should either of them leave, curious if we make an offer to promote Kirk... I would really like to keep him on staff if it all possible..
 
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Jun 27, 2018
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He can have Matt Moore for free. Good Riddance.
Im curious why do you not think Moore is a good coach? WVU's OL was worse then a bottom half G5 team playing a P5 schedule. Its by far the group that takes the longest to correct and BY FAR the worst position group from a roster perspective that was inherited.

Look at the data from this year and our OL consistently improved as the year progressed, which is what you want to see from a young OL... 3 years in, and its still a young OL... That should speak to how dire that situation was.. Replacing with younger more talented guys that offer higher upside, does require a few years to reach an acceptable plateau, which should happen after the 3rd-4th game next year.

Personally speaking, I would like to see a more diverse collection of blocking schemes, but perhaps the talent+experience couldnt execute it... I think our OL issues will be a bad memory very soon...
 

dangerousdaneerfan

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Aug 13, 2007
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Im curious why do you not think Moore is a good coach? WVU's OL was worse then a bottom half G5 team playing a P5 schedule. Its by far the group that takes the longest to correct and BY FAR the worst position group from a roster perspective that was inherited.

Look at the data from this year and our OL consistently improved as the year progressed, which is what you want to see from a young OL... 3 years in, and its still a young OL... That should speak to how dire that situation was.. Replacing with younger more talented guys that offer higher upside, does require a few years to reach an acceptable plateau, which should happen after the 3rd-4th game next year.

Personally speaking, I would like to see a more diverse collection of blocking schemes, but perhaps the talent+experience couldnt execute it... I think our OL issues will be a bad memory very soon...
When you cannot protect a quarterback who fails to be mobile, they you have serious issues with the line. Coupled with a stupid procedure penalty that cost us a TD vs Oklahoma, then it is time for the OL coach to get his butt out of town.
 

OlegeezEER

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May 18, 2016
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Im curious why do you not think Moore is a good coach? WVU's OL was worse then a bottom half G5 team playing a P5 schedule. Its by far the group that takes the longest to correct and BY FAR the worst position group from a roster perspective that was inherited.

Look at the data from this year and our OL consistently improved as the year progressed, which is what you want to see from a young OL... 3 years in, and its still a young OL... That should speak to how dire that situation was.. Replacing with younger more talented guys that offer higher upside, does require a few years to reach an acceptable plateau, which should happen after the 3rd-4th game next year.

Personally speaking, I would like to see a more diverse collection of blocking schemes, but perhaps the talent+experience couldnt execute it... I think our OL issues will be a bad memory very soon...
The one thing I would like to see added to our offense is more imagination especially In play calling. I know as our players mature we hopefully will see a more productive offense. Its just I watched Kansas play Texas and us and I was impressed with some of their play calling. It seemed like every time we thought we had them figured out they showed a new wrinkle in their play selection. In regards to Moore its kind of hard to say. Developing good lineman is a long tedious process which relies heavily on strength and experience. Very few freshman can walk into a power 5 program and excel at a high level. Most of the best lines are heavy on upper classman. we will probably have a better idea of his coaching ability 4-5 games into next season.
 

WVUALLEN

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Aug 4, 2009
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Im curious why do you not think Moore is a good coach? WVU's OL was worse then a bottom half G5 team playing a P5 schedule. Its by far the group that takes the longest to correct and BY FAR the worst position group from a roster perspective that was inherited.

Look at the data from this year and our OL consistently improved as the year progressed, which is what you want to see from a young OL... 3 years in, and its still a young OL... That should speak to how dire that situation was.. Replacing with younger more talented guys that offer higher upside, does require a few years to reach an acceptable plateau, which should happen after the 3rd-4th game next year.

Personally speaking, I would like to see a more diverse collection of blocking schemes, but perhaps the talent+experience couldnt execute it... I think our OL issues will be a bad memory very soon...
Didn't say he was good. Just ship him to Troy. Lock him in a box don't really care. Maybe take a reading skills class so you can read the words good riddance.

Definition of good riddance

—used to say that one is glad that someone is leaving or that something has gone Winter is finally over, and I say good riddance!
 
Feb 15, 2005
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Didn't say he was good. Just ship him to Troy. Lock him in a box don't really care. Maybe take a reading skills class so you can read the words good riddance.

Definition of good riddance

—used to say that one is glad that someone is leaving or that something has gone Winter is finally over, and I say good riddance!
I think Volatility is asking why you do NOT think Moore is a good coach. He included his usual platitudes about how everything takes time and better athletes are needed. I disagree, but that I think is the essence of his question.
 

WVUALLEN

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Aug 4, 2009
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I think Volatility is asking why you do NOT think Moore is a good coach. He included his usual platitudes about how everything takes time and better athletes are needed. I disagree, but that I think is the essence of his question.
Perhaps I need the reading skills class.

Offensive line gave up 33 sacks this year. In 3 years these things should not happen. Even the head coach should show improvement. Granted Doege wears concrete shoes. This team has struggled for 3 years to run the ball. Same mistakes are being made that were happening 3 years ago.

How can the head coach improve if his position coaches do not?
 
Feb 15, 2005
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Perhaps I need the reading skills class.

Offensive line gave up 33 sacks this year. In 3 years these things should not happen. Even the head coach should show improvement. Granted Doege wears concrete shoes. This team has struggled for 3 years to run the ball. Same mistakes are being made that were happening 3 years ago.

How can the head coach improve if his position coaches do not?
Oh I agree with you. I think he stretches it with how much latitude he gives Brown, but it's ludicrous to do the same with Brown. It takes time to build a quality D1 team and it's constituent units. But steady improvement should be seen and if 3 years of stagnation is "expected" then we are looking at least another 4-5 before we have a Big 12 championship contending program assuming we start steady improvement next season. Unless you have an unrealistic expectation that a program can suddenly become competitive with the "right combination"
 
Jun 27, 2018
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Perhaps I need the reading skills class.

Offensive line gave up 33 sacks this year. In 3 years these things should not happen. Even the head coach should show improvement. Granted Doege wears concrete shoes. This team has struggled for 3 years to run the ball. Same mistakes are being made that were happening 3 years ago.

How can the head coach improve if his position coaches do not?
This is to you and to TBTfT...

I definitely see things this staff can improve. I posted a thread earlier where a coach breaks down film from a Billy Napier offense.

This staff DEFINITELY needs to improve on its integration of more outside zone concepts, which NB even stated so earlier in the season "They are getting better at teaching it", which infers its not historically been an area of "expertise" for them.

Well.... They need to learn fast, because any quality offense these days has a large % of outside zone concepts, because its extremely versatile.

The question I have is:

How much has the lack of talent, more importantly the serious lack of experience play a part in being able to successfully integrate more creative concepts. Not only those two critical factors, but "Mr. Concrete Shoes's" limitations too.

You typically need a faster / shiftier RB for outside zone to work well, and that is not Leddie's strengths, so between the talent+experience issues on OL, lack of versatility+mobility from CShoes, and Leddie's strengths, I dont think the roster is put together to open up the playbook, which reduces the ways you can attack DC's, essentially increasing predictability.

Ill be the first guy calling for change if we continue to see the same offensive issues when we have a more versatile QB, an experienced OL, and a deep RB core to allow for any player to be inserted to match the concept deployed. My loyalty is to WVU, I suppose Im just trying to be a little more patient, because of the dire set of circumstances that NB inherited + shortened covid yr + his recruiting... I just want to reserve any serious criticism until I know the majority of limitations have been resolved. At least then, the answer to these questions will be easier to extract an accurate perspective. I suppose its the data scientist in me coming out..

All that said, Im def frustrated at times and desperately want to see more improvement, but I guess Im trying to remind myself of all the variables and there are differences between short term gain & long term trajectory.

This staff is not perfect, there are many areas that must improve if Brown will outperform historical averages, I seriously dont know if he will or not, time will tell. But when the time comes when the answer is obvious Ill certainly be on the side that best serves WVU. I just have a hard time believing this staff magically forgot how to put an aggressive & creative offense on the field when they arrived in Morgantown. No matter how good a staff may be, there is always room for improvement, which is why I support increasing the staff resources so Brown can hire quality analyst. Diversity of perspectives are important in being successful in any business, and part of being a great CEO is knowing how to allocate responsibilities to your team and giving them room+confidence to work effectively+efficiently. So, I would support hiring a quality OC at some point, as long as he is a good fit and continues the "team" contribution culture NB has established with his staff.

My line in the sand is at the end of the 5th yr. That is enough time to see fruits on the vine... It may not be a full harvest, but definitely enough to make some reasonable projections..

We are starting 3 underclassmen on the OL and get them all back next yr, so Ill definitely be quicker to criticize Moore next yr, if we see similar results. That said, if CShoes is our QB next yr, some of next yrs sacks wont be on the OL.. Which I think we can all logically agree on that point. Im more focused on technique, diversity of concepts, how they grade out, etc...

My hope is when we our OL are experienced and Nicco/Greene/Crowder/? is starting at QB, we see a far superior schematic creativity, if not... Then you fellas will have certainly been correct in your earlier opinions.

Cheers Guys!