Thought he took full advantage after being rewarded with the start tonight. He looked really, really good, both on offense and D. His defense in particular is like night and day from where it was at the beginning of the season. Good to see the improvement...
Kopp...
- Thread starter mikewebb68
- Start date
He looked like he belonged tonight. Just needs to increase his confidence in shooting. Will be glad when he doesn’t have to deal with the Fish-Eye from certain people everytime he misses one.
I think this is more of what we might have seen on a roster that wasn't senior-laden. Frosh are gonna usually defer in that case and play a little tight. The big 4 of BMac, Scotty, Law, Pardon really grew as frosh 'cause they are all we had. But hopefully Kopp, Nance, Greer can go into the off-season knowing this is their team next year--along with Gaines of course.
^ Going to disagree w/ that assessment.
Dook's 4 leading scorers are frosh despite the rest of their roster being filled w/ 5*/4* recruits.
An anomaly, you say? (Due to the freaky talent level of Dook's frosh class.)
Well, UMD's rotation is heavy on the frosh as well.
Really think a frosh (if they were playing better) couldn't have beaten out Taylor or Turner (the way they had been struggling for a good part of the season)?
And the 4-spot (along w/ the 1) was wide-open.
During the 2014-15 season, the top 3 scorers were Demps, Olah and BMac.
The top 3 may have been Demps, Olah and Cobb, but Cobb was struggling (once again) w/ his health, so took a step back (still was 5th on the team in ppg).
BMac was BMac from the very start - replacing an upperclassman at the point (Sobo) b/c he was more talented.
In terms of scoring efficiency, BMac's best 2 seasons were his 1st 2 (nearly identical).
Think having Sobo (and Cobb, to a lesser extent) helped BMac's efficiency his frosh season, as he didn't feel the need to do it all as the lead guard (plus didn't have to play as many minutes so was more fresh at the end of games).
The next season, the top 3 scorers were Demps, BMac and Olah.
Here, Olah took a step backwards due to health issues, but don't think that practicing against Alex before and during the season didn't help Pardon's preparation when he was called upon.
Lindsey improved from his frosh season (seeing limited time), but while he saw more minutes, wasn't able to beat out Demps.
Aside from Demps and Olah, had Lumpkin manning the 4 and had Tap as the 3 pt specialist coming off the bench - so, the Frosh+Pardon wasn't really all they had.
Aside from Pardon, everyone on the team is below 40% in shooting.
If 1-2 of the frosh were shooting in the 45-48% range, they'd be seeing more minutes.
Dook's 4 leading scorers are frosh despite the rest of their roster being filled w/ 5*/4* recruits.
An anomaly, you say? (Due to the freaky talent level of Dook's frosh class.)
Well, UMD's rotation is heavy on the frosh as well.
Really think a frosh (if they were playing better) couldn't have beaten out Taylor or Turner (the way they had been struggling for a good part of the season)?
And the 4-spot (along w/ the 1) was wide-open.
During the 2014-15 season, the top 3 scorers were Demps, Olah and BMac.
The top 3 may have been Demps, Olah and Cobb, but Cobb was struggling (once again) w/ his health, so took a step back (still was 5th on the team in ppg).
BMac was BMac from the very start - replacing an upperclassman at the point (Sobo) b/c he was more talented.
In terms of scoring efficiency, BMac's best 2 seasons were his 1st 2 (nearly identical).
Think having Sobo (and Cobb, to a lesser extent) helped BMac's efficiency his frosh season, as he didn't feel the need to do it all as the lead guard (plus didn't have to play as many minutes so was more fresh at the end of games).
The next season, the top 3 scorers were Demps, BMac and Olah.
Here, Olah took a step backwards due to health issues, but don't think that practicing against Alex before and during the season didn't help Pardon's preparation when he was called upon.
Lindsey improved from his frosh season (seeing limited time), but while he saw more minutes, wasn't able to beat out Demps.
Aside from Demps and Olah, had Lumpkin manning the 4 and had Tap as the 3 pt specialist coming off the bench - so, the Frosh+Pardon wasn't really all they had.
Aside from Pardon, everyone on the team is below 40% in shooting.
If 1-2 of the frosh were shooting in the 45-48% range, they'd be seeing more minutes.
All his points were in the second half. He played pretty well otherwise in the first half but I think he was 0-5
Maryland recruits at higher level than most of the conference.
The 2018 class was #7 in the country and tops in the BIG per 247.
Not a great example.
The thing that puts MSU, MICH and WIS at the top of the conference year after year is that their guys stay. MD recruits somewhat better but some of their guys go early to NBA
Agreed. Here’s a tidbit to piggyback on.
I was listening to the Maryland/Michigan game on the radio a few weeks back and during the pregame portion of the broadcast there was an interview featuring the Terp PxP guy and Bielein.
During the conversation, the play of freshman came up. John commented on how it was nice to have one that was ready from day one (Iggy B) and that unlike the Maryland kids, most of his recruits usually take two, if not three years before they are prepared to play at a level capable of competing for a conference title.
But was in large part due to Jalen Smith (5* C/F), and to a lesser extent, Wiggins.
UMD's top 2 scorers aren't frosh, so it's not like they were devoid of talent.
2 of the frosh in the rotation are Ayala (ranked 78th by 247) and the other Smith (3* and ranked 156th).
That's similar to where Nance (88th) and Kopp (116th) were ranked.
But OK, let's put it this way.
If Coble, Juice, Shurna, Crawford or Cobb were in the frosh class, would they be playing heavy minutes, if not starting?
Heck, Sobo would be starting.
Juice - defintely, but would be a major liability on defense. Lathon was supposed to be here and he would have started as well, likely over Juice.
Coble - probably/possibly. He was crafty and a great scorer that had an impact on a horrible team from day one, but wasn’t overly athletic and would struggle on defense. Stretch 4?
Crawford - unlikely. Maybe if CC got frustrated with Turner/Taylor. Young Drew was good, but raw...perhaps a spot starter role similar to Copp?
Shurna - no. He broke out his sophomore season and was a defensive liability early on. Would have a Nance/Falzon-like role.
Cobb - no. Too inconsistent/injury prone and NU doesn’t use the 1-3-1 anymore.
Sobo - no way. He was a system based PG only. Great kid though!
Last edited:
Lathon was never going to be here, so that's a moot point.
And whether Lathon would have started over Juice is debatable.
Juice avg'd more PPG as a frosh against tougher competition.
And despite his stature, Juice was less of a liability in D than BMac (Juice avg'd 1.1 steals per game; that's higher than Lathon).
Against inferior competition, Lathon is shooting at a .397 clip (.347 from 3pt).
Juice shot .434 and .433.
My $$ would be on Juice starting.
Coble - would be exactly what this team needs. Someone who can score a lot of points w/ efficiency. Sure, he wasn't a good defender, but this team can give that up at 1 position (stretch-4), the current options can't shoot/score and aren't exactly defensive juggernaughts either.
No doubt Coble would be starting and may even be the leading the scorer.
Crawford - are you seriously arguing that Drew wouldn't have eventually beaten out Turner or Taylor? lol
Shurna - as a frosh, basically Coble (w/ fewer minutes) and less crazy shots.
Playing 18.5 mpg, Shurna avg'd 7.3 ppg shooting at a .466 clip (Shurna was basically, the 6th man off the bench).
The other options at the 4.
Kopp - .370
Nance - .364
Falzon - .333
Cobb - was simply asking if Cobb would start; not asking about his health (plus, he was mostly healthy during his frosh season).
Cobb avg'd 7.4 ppg (sharing time w/ Hearn) and while he wasn't a good shooter from 3pt range until his last 2 years, he shot .450 inside the arc (Lathon is shooting .442 against much inferior competition).
Gaines - .385
Taylor - .392
Turner - .426
And like the others, you discount Sobo.
Sobo avg'd a very respectable 8.3 ppg.
Shot .399 from the field, .455 from 2 pt range.
Don't think there is any guard/wing on the team who is as efficient as Sobo was driving to the basket (and remember, Sobo didn't run the Princeton O in HS and the levels below that, so hardly a system player).
And whether Lathon would have started over Juice is debatable.
Juice avg'd more PPG as a frosh against tougher competition.
And despite his stature, Juice was less of a liability in D than BMac (Juice avg'd 1.1 steals per game; that's higher than Lathon).
Against inferior competition, Lathon is shooting at a .397 clip (.347 from 3pt).
Juice shot .434 and .433.
My $$ would be on Juice starting.
Coble - would be exactly what this team needs. Someone who can score a lot of points w/ efficiency. Sure, he wasn't a good defender, but this team can give that up at 1 position (stretch-4), the current options can't shoot/score and aren't exactly defensive juggernaughts either.
No doubt Coble would be starting and may even be the leading the scorer.
Crawford - are you seriously arguing that Drew wouldn't have eventually beaten out Turner or Taylor? lol
Shurna - as a frosh, basically Coble (w/ fewer minutes) and less crazy shots.
Playing 18.5 mpg, Shurna avg'd 7.3 ppg shooting at a .466 clip (Shurna was basically, the 6th man off the bench).
The other options at the 4.
Kopp - .370
Nance - .364
Falzon - .333
Cobb - was simply asking if Cobb would start; not asking about his health (plus, he was mostly healthy during his frosh season).
Cobb avg'd 7.4 ppg (sharing time w/ Hearn) and while he wasn't a good shooter from 3pt range until his last 2 years, he shot .450 inside the arc (Lathon is shooting .442 against much inferior competition).
Gaines - .385
Taylor - .392
Turner - .426
And like the others, you discount Sobo.
Sobo avg'd a very respectable 8.3 ppg.
Shot .399 from the field, .455 from 2 pt range.
Don't think there is any guard/wing on the team who is as efficient as Sobo was driving to the basket (and remember, Sobo didn't run the Princeton O in HS and the levels below that, so hardly a system player).
Last edited:
I don’t think the frosh are better than the upoerclassmen. But I think they would have shown more if they were on a team that didn’t have established vets. There are probably a couple dozen frosh in the country that are instant impact even on a veteran team—our frosh aren’t among them.
Some of this is right, some of it isn't. But it's neither useful nor relevant to the current team.
I was going to post a much longer response to this questioning the value of certain stats you bolded and putting into context things like system fit and athleticism, but I'd rather not be perceived as discrediting the former players you brought up. I like all of them and have touted their abilities on this site in the past .
We've already derailed the thread enough (my apologies Mike) and Medill90 summed up things very well in much less words than it would have took me to do so.
Agree to disagree.
Last edited:
I would disagree on Sobo. He was pretty highly regarded. While he brought some things Sobo didn't have, hard to say if BMac started over him his frosh year because he was significantly better or because he was CCCs guy
I didn't think he'd ever be a plus defender, but he's already getting close to that now. He and Gaines give us two starters we can be optimistic about.
It's not hard at all. My eyes told me BMac was better than Sobo even in Bryant's first year.
Sorry but Lathon was scheduled to be here. He had signed his LOI and had been cleared by admissions before the incident, whatever it was. He would have been here. My guess is he would have been pretty comparable to Juice with more upside.
All of this reminds me that most of my favorite NU players have never had anything approaching lateral quickness. Love em lots anyhow.
Yeah, Lathon was scheduled to be here, but ultimately, that incident prevented that.
And all the other P5 programs that had recruited Lathon also stepped back - which is why he ended up at UTEP.
And there's no need to guess.
Lathon has less impressive stats than a frosh Juice despite playing a much weaker schedule.
Was relevant to the post I was responding to; so if you have an issue w/ relevance, take it up w/ the CCF1.
To be fair Kat, I simply questioned your use of Maryland’s recruiting as an accurate representation of standard incoming classes.
It wasn’t my intent for a whole long winded, off thread thing, although I acknowledge I contributed.
Last edited: