Kyle Wiltjer and "what ifs"

[Atlanta Blue_rivals376781]

As has been discussed in this forum quite a bit, Kyle Wiltjer is having one hell of a year and I'm happy for him. Gary Parrish from CBS Sports has him listed at #8 on his national player of the year rankings. Willie Cauley-Stein is at #10. (See link) Kyle even made the ESPN Top 10 plays the other night with a nifty behind the back move for a driving layup.

Parrish makes the point that Kyle is flourishing at Gonzaga in a way that would have been impossible at UK. That's probably a true statement although I don't think it's a given (primarily since we lost Alex to injury).

It's pretty interesting to image Kyle as a member of the Blue Platoon (moving Trey Lyles back to the White Platoon). Kyle would give the Blues another great shooter (53.8% overall and 44.3% from 3 so far this year), another veteran player and his defensive limitations would get covered up pretty well by Willie and Karl Anthony Towns.

Some fun with numbers... Kyle is only playing 26 minutes a game at Gonzaga and is scoring 16.2 points and grabbing 5.2 rebounds. If you prorate those numbers to 20 minutes of playing time he'd get in platoons at UK then he'd still be at 12.5 points per game and 4 boards. He'd be our leading scorer! (Right now Aaron is at 11.5 points per game.)

No way that Kyle would know that we'd lose Alex to injury and so I completely understand why he would make the move to a school where he could be a bigger fish, but the "what ifs" say that he might have done just as well or better redshirting but staying at UK. What if Kyle was the leading scorer on the #1 undefeated Kentucky Wildcats? Not a bad option.



Gary Parrish POY List

 

[DCFseattle]

Kyle Wiltjer would get scored on every single time down the court, just like he did when he was here.
every. single. time.

on this team? that wouldn't fly.
we wouldn't be able to switch him on anybody. you want him out guarding on the 3 point line? me, neither.
and he's not strong enough to hold his ground in the post.

with his defensive liability (and i feel like that's putting it nicely), i just don't think he'd see the floor that much.

 

[preacherfan]

Originally posted by Atlanta Blue:
As has been discussed in this forum quite a bit, Kyle Wiltjer is having one hell of a year and I'm happy for him. Gary Parrish from CBS Sports has him listed at #8 on his national player of the year rankings. Willie Cauley-Stein is at #10. (See link) Kyle even made the ESPN Top 10 plays the other night with a nifty behind the back move for a driving layup.

Parrish makes the point that Kyle is flourishing at Gonzaga in a way that would have been impossible at UK. That's probably a true statement although I don't think it's a given (primarily since we lost Alex to injury).

It's pretty interesting to image Kyle as a member of the Blue Platoon (moving Trey Lyles back to the White Platoon). Kyle would give the Blues another great shooter (53.8% overall and 44.3% from 3 so far this year), another veteran player and his defensive limitations would get covered up pretty well by Willie and Karl Anthony Towns.

Some fun with numbers... Kyle is only playing 26 minutes a game at Gonzaga and is scoring 16.2 points and grabbing 5.2 rebounds. If you prorate those numbers to 20 minutes of playing time he'd get in platoons at UK then he'd still be at 12.5 points per game and 4 boards. He'd be our leading scorer! (Right now Aaron is at 11.5 points per game.)

No way that Kyle would know that we'd lose Alex to injury and so I completely understand why he would make the move to a school where he could be a bigger fish, but the "what ifs" say that he might have done just as well or better redshirting but staying at UK. What if Kyle was the leading scorer on the #1 undefeated Kentucky Wildcats? Not a bad option.

When he transferred, many of us thought that he was going to the PERFECT situation for HIM. Would I like to have him now? Of course! But, he had some liabilities that hampered his production here and those are not as relevant where he is now.

I think, in the end, it was a win win situation for everyone. We are undefeated and he is having a GREAT year for a great team.

 

[katwest]

I'm happy for Wiltjer, has his defense improved or does Gonzaga play mostly zone, that was the reason he didn't get the playing time here, I remember one time Troy Mckinley scored 8 points in a short period of time and coach Hall took him out and someone ask coach why he took him out with him being hot, Hall said his man scored 12 in that period.

 

[akaukswoosh]

Originally posted by Atlanta Blue:
As has been discussed in this forum quite a bit, Kyle Wiltjer is having one hell of a year and I'm happy for him. Gary Parrish from CBS Sports has him listed at #8 on his national player of the year rankings. Willie Cauley-Stein is at #10. (See link) Kyle even made the ESPN Top 10 plays the other night with a nifty behind the back move for a driving layup.

Parrish makes the point that Kyle is flourishing at Gonzaga in a way that would have been impossible at UK. That's probably a true statement although I don't think it's a given (primarily since we lost Alex to injury).

It's pretty interesting to image Kyle as a member of the Blue Platoon (moving Trey Lyles back to the White Platoon). Kyle would give the Blues another great shooter (53.8% overall and 44.3% from 3 so far this year), another veteran player and his defensive limitations would get covered up pretty well by Willie and Karl Anthony Towns.

Some fun with numbers... Kyle is only playing 26 minutes a game at Gonzaga and is scoring 16.2 points and grabbing 5.2 rebounds. If you prorate those numbers to 20 minutes of playing time he'd get in platoons at UK then he'd still be at 12.5 points per game and 4 boards. He'd be our leading scorer! (Right now Aaron is at 11.5 points per game.)

No way that Kyle would know that we'd lose Alex to injury and so I completely understand why he would make the move to a school where he could be a bigger fish, but the "what ifs" say that he might have done just as well or better redshirting but staying at UK. What if Kyle was the leading scorer on the #1 undefeated Kentucky Wildcats? Not a bad option.

If you want to fantasize why not fanaticize about having Poythress here and healthy?

 

[Atlanta Blue_rivals376781]

Not really trying to argue that it wasn't a good decision for Kyle to transfer. He's doing well and UK is obviously just fine without him. Just having some fun with what might have happened had he redshirted a year but stayed at UK.

I actually don't think Kyle's defense would have hurt us as much as everyone is saying. I think staying at UK would have forced Kyle to continue to work on his one-on-one defending and he would have improved enough to mitigate that a bit. It's probably not helping his NBA dreams to hide in a zone and not learn how to defend one-on-one.

He's a really good offensive player and a great shooter. He'll have a pro career somewhere, although maybe overseas.

 

[Atlanta Blue_rivals376781]

Silly comment about Poy... Of course, I'd like Poy healthy. I'd rather have that than Kyle still on the roster, but what does that have to do with anything? I wrote a post about Kyle. That's how this works, see. You pick a topic and then write about it.

 

[gamalielkid]

Finally got to watch Kyle play the other night against St. Mary's. He was the star for Gonzaga and is having a great year. Totally different game and opponent level in my opinion. I fully believe, if we meet, we will crush Gonzaga - they just can't match up on the glass. I wished Kyle would have stayed and I can honestly say he may have been better to have stayed. His defense hasn't improved that much, but his confidence and "team" spirit is probably higher. Practicing and playing against better players here would have continued to help him get to the NBA, but I think Kyle lost some of his confidence here - which is something you can't really measure as well.

I think it was the right move for Kyle as he seems happy, he is still loved by the Big Blue Nation and will always be a Cat!

Go Big Blue!

 

[Blue Decade]

Wiltjer always was a good player, and still is. He was a key player in our March run to the 2012 national title. He transferred because he was a long way from home, and uncomfortable with the intense level of competition for playing time. Nothing wrong with that. He has well known defensive weaknesses that have not yet been exploited by the weak teams on Gonzaga's schedule. I am glad he is doing well, but I don't view Gonzaga as a threat. Gonzaga is good, but the Zags haven't been tested yet the way Kentucky and Duke have been tested. That will hurt them in March.

 

[TheOtherGreatOne]

Gonzaga doesn't stick him out on the wing trying to guard 6'4'' wing players. They play him on inside players where he does a pretty good job. they also play him inside most of the time and also on the high post where he can step out and take some threes. this also allows him to use his passing skills and he slides inside where he can also score. Anyone that thjnks wiltjer couldn't help this team is stupid or jealous. he scored 32 points when the zags played Georgia,i bet nobody on our team scores 32 against them. the only difference is that few uses wiltjer that lets him play to his abilities, and cal never did.

 

[Jazzycat]

He is in the perfect place for him. UK is not the best scenerio. That proved itself pretty early. Calipari had to recruit over him because of his weakness on defense and that he was not shooting at a consistent clip.

Of course, he is going to star at Gonzaga. He is exactly the type of player Few recruits. You can also bet that they will put Gonzaga in UK's bracket.

They need stories to fuel viewership....

 

[anon_9qtxg60vqzy0y]

Theoretical situations are useless discussion topics. Why waste energy on something that can never be proven?

 

[rhstoess]

Wiltjer doesn't fit in on this team

 

[Blue Decade]

If Kentucky and Gonzaga are both #1 seeds, which looks like the most likely case, then Gonzaga won't be in Kentucky's bracket. If Gonzaga falls to a #2, then I would rather draw the Zags into our bracket than most of the other likely #2 seeds. I may be missing something, but I am not worried about a March match up with Gonzaga.

 

[zwynn10]

I am happy for Kyle that he is having success. However, does anyone really think he would score double digits against UK? WCS or Lee playing up on him so he can't shoot over and he certainly isn't going to put the ball on the floor and go by and he is not going to post up either one. Kyle's success at UK was based on Lamb and Miller being wing players with AD inside and Kyle could get open looks especially trailing in transition. The next season without that supporting cast, Kyle was a very average player. Kyle's issues at UK still exist - - he is an outstanding (maybe great) spot up shooter but has no offensive game beyond that and he couldn't guard a lamp post.

 

[RacerX.ksr]

Originally posted by Atlanta Blue:

I actually don't think Kyle's defense would have hurt us as much as everyone is saying.

Yes, it would have. Kyle can't play man defense, can't switch. His only defensive weapon was being in the way and causing the offensive player to have to run around him to get to the rim.


I think staying at UK would have forced Kyle to continue to work on his one-on-one defending and he would have improved enough to mitigate that a bit.


Kyle had over two and a half years to work on his body, which is what it takes to play man defense, and it was obvious that he didn't. Why would this year have been different?

 

[Joneslab]

The thing about Wiltjer is that he had a full year to work on his body. It helped immensely.

People who talk about his defense are discussing him as if he played at UK last season. That's not the case; the last time we saw him was in 2013.

That year made a substantial difference. In that Arizona game they picked on him a little with Brandon Ashley, but it wasn't anything outlandish.

I contend that Wiltjer would help this team and would have a role. But he's in a much better situation; he plays for a coach that will hide him a little, and the talent level on a nightly basis is a bit lower. The West Coast rewards skilled softness. And he's closer to home.

Kentucky's 18-0 and #1. It was a win for everybody.

 

[preacherfan]

Originally posted by Joneslab:
The thing about Wiltjer is that he had a full year to work on his body. It helped immensely.

People who talk about his defense are discussing him as if he played at UK last season. That's not the case; the last time we saw him was in 2013.

That year made a substantial difference. In that Arizona game they picked on him a little with Brandon Ashley, but it wasn't anything outlandish.

I contend that Wiltjer would help this team and would have a role. But he's in a much better situation; he plays for a coach that will hide him a little, and the talent level on a nightly basis is a bit lower. The West Coast rewards skilled softness. And he's closer to home.

Kentucky's 18-0 and #1. It was a win for everybody.

Many of us have seen him this year and his d hasn't really improved.

 

[UKWildcats#8]

He'd play about 10 minutes a game here this year...if that. No D would not cut it. WE don't need his 3 point shooting, have plenty of that.

 

[buck8113]

WHO ??? oh you mean that player that left KY and plays for another team. never heard of him

 

[Comebakatz3]

I love Wiltjer, but he does not belong on a team that plays only man defense, especially a switching man to man defense. He needs to get into a zone and be able to get some help.

 

[Graves51]

Cal has "his" players and it had become clear that Kyle wasn't one of them. Whether he would deserve time is irrelevant to me as I don't think he would get any. Kyle made the right decision and we should be happy for him. Kentucky is undefeated and we are VERY happy about that. I will not underestimate Gonzaga like most on here do. I learned a pretty good lesson last year when I just KNEW we would beat UConn' but unfortunately it didn't turn out that way! GO CATS!!

 

[chattanoogawildcat]

If Wiltjer was on this team and getting lots of PT, we would drop like 10 spots in defensive efficiency.

 

[fs-ripcord65]

With the platoon system, Wiltjer would be playing and scoring -- and giving up defensive points. If Wiltjer were still at U.K. and if the 'Cats were not employing the platoon system, Wiltjer could not break into the top 8 because of this team's emphasis on defense and because of Wiltjer's defensive deficiencies.

 

[AnarchoNeoLuddite_rivals]

Originally posted by Graves51:
Cal has "his" players and it had become clear that Kyle wasn't one of them. Whether he would deserve time is irrelevant to me as I don't think he would get any. Kyle made the right decision and we should be happy for him. Kentucky is undefeated and we are VERY happy about that. I will not underestimate Gonzaga like most on here do. I learned a pretty good lesson last year when I just KNEW we would beat UConn' but unfortunately it didn't turn out that way! GO CATS!!

Kyle even commiting to UK was a surprise to Cal.Kyle didnt even visit UK prior to his commit. Was a very fast courtship. In hindsight he was obvioulsy better off with what he has now.

 

[cats#1again]

The year to work on his body isn't the reason he is doing better. He had 2 full years while in Lexington.
He very well may have started using his time wisely and hit the weight room after hearing so much negative about him. He sure didn't here

 

[BoulderCat_rivals187983]

I'm happy for him. He made the right decision for himself. He would not have been in the first 10 on this team when Alex was healthy, and instead he's starring on the 3rd ranked team in the country. Meanwhile we're undefeated and ranked #1. Definitely a win-win.

 

[bigblueinsanity_rivals250340]

Kyle did the perfect thing for him. He likely would barely see the floor. In fact Willis was much better as a freshman than Kyle as a sophomore.

He's in a perfect situation for him. All parties benefitted from the move.

 

[Chuckinden]

I'm glad Kyle is doing well. He wouldn't fit in our lineups and would be at end of the bench with Willis and the rest.

He did the right thing for him. UK isn't for everyone and Kyle has proven that.

 

[truebluewildcat_rivals34254]

I don't know what Cal's philosophy on redshirting is, but kids like Kyle and Derek could use an extra year to grow, mature, and develop while saving some eligibility...

not real sure what the plan with Derek has been...but he's still at least another season away from being where he can be...he may not really flourish until his senior season...like Kyle, he could have really used a year to really focus on practicing, developing physically, and finding his game with out all the pressure of having to play...

I think Kyle would have simply not gotten enough opportunity here...

Even if he had stayed around and improved every year...he'd still have been the 7th or 8th guy off the bench last year...and until AP went down this year he wouldn't have gotten significant minutes...

Just not a lot of opportunity with 6 pros ahead of you, and 6 coming in behind you every year...

Glad to see he is becoming the player I think we all knew he could be...

 

[Kats23]

I'm just not sure Kyle would of succeeded here ever. I don't think he ever would of been more than a role player off the bench. Kyle cannot create his own shot and he's doesn't have very good lateral quickness. To succeed under Cal you must create your own shot, and get open on your own. Other than high ball screens Cal's offense isn't built to screen you to get open. Even then, those high ball screens are there mostly for you to get some space in order to get to the rim. At Gonzaga, he didn't have to create his own shot. They are constantly screening and spreading out the permitter. They zone on defense. Everything they do there is to Kyle's strength.

 

[JimmyJimmy]

He is not the same kid physically as he was at UK. And with the nutritional program that has taken over all the sports programs and seeing the difference in appearances in players in all the sports programs Wiltjer might even be more effective if he had stayed. Who knows.

 

[Cats78]

I think in his 2nd year we were playing Vanderbilt maybe and some no name on Vanderbilt abused him about 4 or 5 times in a row. They clearly went at him and when he tried to guard someone different, same result. Glad he's doing well at Gonzaga but his defense would not fly here and even if his defense has improved(and I doubt it has), it was so bad that even improving it still would make him a liability.

 

[4UK]

Kyle is in the perfect place and I'm happy for him. But a well-coached team with any athletic ability at all will absolutely abuse him on the defensive end every single time. Kevin Stallings pretty much said their entire offensive game plan against UK was to put Wiltjer in situations where he had to guard someone on the dribble.

Fortunately for him, the conference that Gonzaga plays in is so subpar that he'll only get exposed in a couple of non-conference games and at NCAA Tournament time. The rest of the time he'll shine, which is why it's the perfect place for him.

 

[Cats78]

Originally posted by 4UK:
Kyle is in the perfect place and I'm happy for him. But a well-coached team with any athletic ability at all will absolutely abuse him on the defensive end every single time. Kevin Stallings pretty much said their entire offensive game plan against UK was to put Wiltjer in situations where he had to guard someone on the dribble.

Fortunately for him, the conference that Gonzaga plays in is so subpar that he'll only get exposed in a couple of non-conference games and at NCAA Tournament time. The rest of the time he'll shine, which is why it's the perfect place for him.

Exactly

 

[Kampus Korner_rivals164031]

Kyle made the right decision in transferring to Gonzaga, the perfect school with the perfect schedule for his abilities. He was never a Calipari type player just as Willis is not a Calipari type player. I thought he would try and get stronger and work on his defense after his freshman year but he did not. He apparently was in poor shape according to Mark Few, the Gonzaga coach when he enrolled. I am happy he is having success. However, he would have limited minutes on this team.

 

[KopiKat]

I can't wait to see Wiltjer play defense against Aaron or Booker or Andrew or even Ullis in transition. That will be like the most guaranteed 2 points in the entire NCAA tournament.

 

[wall2rondo]

The biggest " what if " about Wiltjer is what if he had dedicated himself while,he was here and what if he prided himself on defense


Pre season coaches round table. Stallings and Cal.joked about stallings running the same play 11 times in the pick and roll. Stalling laughed and said the guy couldn't defend it. cal,said " that's why I had to take home out". They were talking about Wiltjer in Nashville

 

[WayneDougan_rivals170043]

Pitino would be a better coach for Kyle than Cal. Pitino, in my opinion, is better at taking any group of players and getting the most out of them.

Cal needs the right players to be successful. He's not going to win without top of the line talent. But since he is absolutely the best guy since John Wooden at getting the best players, it works. I'll also say that Cal is the an excellent coach when he's got the right guys.

So my point is, Wiltjer couldn't play D in Cal's system. Booker's better anyway. And I'd rather have Cal than Pitino.

 

[wall2rondo]

Originally posted by WayneDougan:
Pitino would be a better coach for Kyle than Cal. Pitino, in my opinion, is better at taking any group of players and getting the most out of them.

Cal needs the right players to be successful. He's not going to win without top of the line talent. But since he is absolutely the best guy since John Wooden at getting the best players, it works. I'll also say that Cal is the an excellent coach when he's got the right guys.

So my point is, Wiltjer couldn't play D in Cal's system. Booker's better anyway. And I'd rather have Cal than Pitino.

Really. How much talent did Cal have at umass or memphis. Two great players in Camby and rose. TWO. ....