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Leveon Bell Stinks at Math

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DSmith21

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Bell sat out an entire year where he would have been paid $14.5 million and been the second highest paid running back. He did this so that he could "reset the market" for running backs and get more guaranteed money.

How did it work out? Not so well. Bell got slightly more money than the Steelers were offering and a little more of it is guaranteed. He will be the 3rd highest paid RB (wanted to be 1st). He lost out on a year's pay ($14.5 million) that he will never get back. He is going to a crappy team with a bad offensive line compared to a contender with one of the best OLs in the NFL. A good bit of his money is based on hitting certain on field target numbers (he better stay healthy which has been a problem). Even worse he is going from a low tax State (PA) to a high tax state where he will pay an extra 2%-3% of his salary to the state. Couldn't happen to a better fool.

https://triblive.com/sports/tim-benz-leveon-bell-can-blame-himself-for-contract-coming-up-short/
 
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LineSkiCat14

LineSkiCat14

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I'm still not overly thrilled with this.. even if we did save $20m+ on signing him.

You just can't sit out a year, playing a position with very little shelf-life. We'll see how it works out. I'm good with 4 year/$50m, the first year or two could potentially be great.. but those last two years, he might pull more antics.
 
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ManitouDan

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He was just waiting for the market to rise ala Rickey Henderson ... Levaon or levion or levathon or whatever this tool's name is ..... " He ain't no fool"
 
LineSkiCat14

LineSkiCat14

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jameslee32 said:
Maybe he feels being far far away from Big Ben is priceless!!!
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I still don't get the problem he had with Ben. AB was quoted as saying: He has a owner mentality like he can call out anybody including coaches.

Uh that's a bad thing? He's the Quarterback for one of the greatest franchises, winning them two Superbowls. he's doing what any other QB does. I would KILL for a QB to have an "owners mentality".
 
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KRJ1975

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He can thank James Conner for some of that. Dude went in and produced every bit as well as Bell did in his last season. There are very few really transcendent RBs in the NFL at a given time. So much of an RBs success or lack thereof is a byproduct of the offensive line, scheme, and overall skill on offense. You look at the Rams where CJ Anderson walked in off the street and put up good numbers when Gurley was out. Conner in Pittsburgh, Damien Williams in KC after Hunt was booted off the team - I don't know why any team would invest heavy at that position.
 
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ukalum01

ukalum01

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Sounds like he saved a year of wear and tear on his body, went where he wanted to go, and got a raise/more guaranteed money.

Good for him.
 
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DSmith21

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ukalum01 said:
Sounds like he saved a year of wear and tear on his body, went where he wanted to go, and got a raise/more guaranteed money.

Good for him.
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That is almost a Glen(n) worthy take. Bell lost $14.5 million by sitting out. His new deal doesn't come close to making that up and now he gets to play on a crappy team with a bad OL.
 
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ukalum01

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DSmith21 said:
That is almost a Glen(n) worthy take. Bell lost $14.5 million by sitting out. His new deal doesn't come close to making that up and now he gets to play on a crappy team with a bad OL.
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Except if he had gotten hurt playing under the tag he would’ve only gotten a fraction of guaranteed money going forward. He took on less physical risk, got more money guaranteed, and moved on from a situation he didn’t want to be in.
 
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DSmith21

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ukalum01 said:
Except if he had gotten hurt playing under the tag he would’ve only gotten a fraction of guaranteed money going forward. He took on less physical risk, got more money guaranteed, and moved on from a situation he didn’t want to be in.
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The Steelers final offer to Bell was a $70 million contract with $33 million guaranteed. Bell sat out a year and gave up $14.5 million in order to get an extra $2 million ($35 million total) in guaranteed money. So he lost $12.5 million by sitting out (That assumes he gets hurt).

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...-monstrous-70-million-deal-from-the-steelers/
 
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ukalum01

ukalum01

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If he signed the deal with Pitt he wouldn’t have gotten the $14.5 in addition to the $33m long term. The $33 would’ve replaced the tag. The only way he “lost” $14.5 is if he could’ve been guaranteed $33+ at the end of 2018 after playing under the $14.5 tag. That was simply not the case when taking into account injury and how the NFL chews up and spits out running backs.
 
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DSmith21

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Glenn's Take

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DSmith21 said:
That is almost a Glen(n) worthy take. Bell lost $14.5 million by sitting out. His new deal doesn't come close to making that up and now he gets to play on a crappy team with a bad OL.
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Now that hurts. I was the one that started the thread a few months ago saying he would never get the lost money back.
 
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AlbanyWildCat

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So the guy states he is not going to play under a second tag and kept his word. His word I guess was worth more than $14.5M.

How refreshing in a sport where is seems like everyone has issues with telling the truth.

And I am constantly amazed at how people on here are so worried about other people's money.
 
LineSkiCat14

LineSkiCat14

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KRJ1975 said:
He can thank James Conner for some of that. Dude went in and produced every bit as well as Bell did in his last season. There are very few really transcendent RBs in the NFL at a given time. So much of an RBs success or lack thereof is a byproduct of the offensive line, scheme, and overall skill on offense. You look at the Rams where CJ Anderson walked in off the street and put up good numbers when Gurley was out. Conner in Pittsburgh, Damien Williams in KC after Hunt was booted off the team - I don't know why any team would invest heavy at that position.
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O-Line continues to be a very underpaid and undervalued position but it seems teams are starting to come around on it more and more. You just can't tie up 40 million and more on Wideouts and RBs.. positions that rely too much on an O-line. Heck, I think even QBs are a bit overpriced. If you have a bad line on offense, all those positions suffer.

Jets didn't REALLY need Bell, what they need is to shore up the O-line and grab someone for cheaper. But, Bell is a great talent, and I'm glad we got him at a discount.
 
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KRJ1975

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LineSkiCat14 said:
O-Line continues to be a very underpaid and undervalued position but it seems teams are starting to come around on it more and more. You just can't tie up 40 million and more on Wideouts and RBs.. positions that rely too much on an O-line. Heck, I think even QBs are a bit overpriced. If you have a bad line on offense, all those positions suffer.

Jets didn't REALLY need Bell, what they need is to shore up the O-line and grab someone for cheaper. But, Bell is a great talent, and I'm glad we got him at a discount.
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I was thinking off the top of my head today, which elite RBs and WRs have actually won Super Bowls?

Faulk
Marcus Allen
Terrell Davis ?
Emmitt Smith (with the greatest O-Line in history.)
Probably a few from back in the day that I am missing

WRs
Rice
Lynn Swann?
Reggie Wayne?

Super Bowls nowadays are won and lost with either an elite QB or an elite defense (or both.) A team with a great QB, O-Line and above average offensive scheming can plug and play guys. There isn't THAT much difference between Emmanuel Sanders and AJ Green or Todd Gurley and Mark Ingram - these guys are pros for a reason.
 
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DSmith21

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KRJ1975 said:
I was thinking off the top of my head today, which elite RBs and WRs have actually won Super Bowls?

Faulk
Marcus Allen
Terrell Davis ?
Emmitt Smith (with the greatest O-Line in history.)
Probably a few from back in the day that I am missing
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Looks like about 50% of the top 16 or so all time leading rushers have a super bowl title on their resume.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/history/leaders/_/stat/rushlead
 
LineSkiCat14

LineSkiCat14

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DSmith21 said:
It will be interesting to see what kind of numbers Bell puts up running behind a bottom 5 ranked OL unit vs. a top 5 group.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/ne...ine-rankings-all-32-teams-units-entering-2018
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Jets making a lot of moves on the O-line front. Released Long, grabbed Kelechi from Oakland, and will for sure draft someone else for immediate O-line help.

I don't see them being top5 of course, but they will get better up front. It's now their last area of concern. I'd like to see them trade their 3rd pick down to grab Jonah Williams and someone else.

There's also the thought of how a dual-threat running back can make an offensive line look better. Jets have Bell (and added Crowder), who will undoubtedly improve the Jets run game in rush yards, YPC, Rushing TD, etc. It's not like the Jets O-line had offensive talent to rely on last year..
 
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KRJ1975

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DSmith21 said:
Looks like about 50% of the top 16 or so all time leading rushers have a super bowl title on their resume.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/history/leaders/_/stat/rushlead
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Oof. Lots of compilers on that list.

Just off the top of my head I'd have below thoughts on the year(s) those guys won Super bowls.

Emmitt - best OL of all time
Payton - legit stud, top 2 defense of all time
Bettis - goal line back in the last season of his career
Faulk - stud, one of the best offenses of all time
Marcus Allen - legit stud
Franco Harris - solid RB, Steel Curtain defense

Off the top of my head, none of the rest of the top 15 won a super bowl, or at the very least was not a meaningful contributor to a super bowl winner.
 
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jameslee32

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LineSkiCat14 said:
I still don't get the problem he had with Ben. AB was quoted as saying: He has a owner mentality like he can call out anybody including coaches.

Uh that's a bad thing? He's the Quarterback for one of the greatest franchises, winning them two Superbowls. he's doing what any other QB does. I would KILL for a QB to have an "owners mentality".
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But you're not a diva.
 
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DSmith21

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Bell Lost. He said they he was going to reset the market for running backs and he didn't. Bell didn't even get Gurley money. Bell lost $14.5 million in salary to get a little more guaranteed money going forward. Guaranteed money only means something if you get hurt bad enough to get cut by a team. Finally, Bell's new deal has millions of dollars of incentive money that he may not be able to achieve.

Last year Bell tweeted that $60 million wasn't enough money to come play for the Jets. His new deal will pay him $52.5 million before incentives. Hmmmm.
 
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ky8335

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DSmith21 said:
Bell Lost. He said they he was going to reset the market for running backs and he didn't. Bell didn't even get Gurley money. Bell lost $14.5 million in salary to get a little more guaranteed money going forward. Guaranteed money only means something if you get hurt bad enough to get cut by a team. Finally, Bell's new deal has millions of dollars of incentive money that he may not be able to achieve.

Last year Bell tweeted that $60 million wasn't enough money to come play for the Jets. His new deal will pay him $52.5 million before incentives. Hmmmm.
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Yeah that's not what that means. Bell gets $6 million more than Gurley in guarantees.
 
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AlbanyWildCat

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Get Bucket$ said:
Still waiting to hear where Bell recoups the 14.5 million he missed out on last year as well the lost return on that money moving forward.
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Sigh...according to the guy who decided to not play for the Steelers, Bell said way upfront he would not play under a second franchise tag and risk getting injured for $14.5M. He now has a guaranteed contract of $30M+.

I can see why this this doesn't line up with your skewed logic, but as I have said many times, why do you (and others) care so much about his money?

I would think if I was a Steelers fan, I would be questioning why my organization decided to throw away a possible Super Bowl run for approx. $20M at the end of the day.
 
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DSmith21

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AlbanyWildCat said:
Sigh...according to the guy who decided to not play for the Steelers, Bell said way upfront he would not play under a second franchise tag and risk getting injured for $14.5M. He now has a guaranteed contract of $30M+.

I can see why this this doesn't line up with your skewed logic, but as I have said many times, why do you (and others) care so much about his money?

I would think if I was a Steelers fan, I would be questioning why my organization decided to throw away a possible Super Bowl run for approx. $20M at the end of the day.
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The Steelers offered him a contract with a lot more guaranteed than just the $14.5 million under the tag. The deal the he ultimately got was not significantly better than the Steelers final multi-year offer and he failed to reset the running back market as promised. Bell is a first rate a-hole and I will enjoy rooting against him. Fortunately, the Steelers found another Pro-Bowl quality RB on their roster so they will be fine.

As far as people worried about other people's money, that is pretty rich coming from a liberal dem who wants to increase tax rates to spend more of other people's money. (apologies if I am confusing you with another poster with Albany in your user name).
 
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ky8335

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DSmith21 said:
Gurley got $45 million of his money guaranteed to $35 million for Bell. Bell failed to reset the running back market as he promised.

https://theramswire.usatoday.com/2019/03/13/leveon-bell-todd-gurley-rams-jets-contract-highest-paid/
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A lot of people are confusing "guaranteed" and "guaranteed for injury". You can go read the cba for the definition. Guaranteed for injury is a bullsh*t concept that isn't true guaranteed money.

For actual guaranteed money, Bell got $6 million more than Gurley, and I bet Gurley is happy for him. That's what this was about - taking the position with the shortest lifespan in the league and focussing on guaranteed money.
 
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dgtatu01

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Get Bucket$ said:
Who was it in the old thread that said sitting out was a good idea for him?
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I thought it was a good idea. If you look at the probability of all outcomes $31 million guaranteed for 5 years including last year is about what he could have expected. Of course he could have gotten more, but he also could have gotten less. This deal would have been bigger but David Johnson and Todd Gurley both crapped the bed to some extent after signing big RB deals last year. Neither of them gave GM's reason to believe they should dish out big guarantees to RB's. Also 2 different guys for the Steelers basically looked just as good as Bell in that same offense.
 
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Perrin75

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The second Bell chose to sit out the year, his market for potential teams dropped to probably around 4 or 5. There are way too many conservative owners who are not going to have someone who is viewed as a problem on their team. It doesn't matter how talented they are. That alone shrank his earning potential even before he fit free agency.

It is also very uncertain if an injury would have impacted Bell's contract status either. The best comparison is Earl Thomas, who was injured last season under the tag, and it didn't impact his value at all.

The Steelers are a team that don't offer a lot of guaranteed money in their contracts up front, but they end up paying out those contracts at a higher rate than any other team in the league. And that can happen regardless of injury. Ryan Shazier is still being paid despite the fact that he will probably never play again. His agent should have recognized that and convinced him to sign with the Steelers two years ago. He would be sitting on a lot more earned income at this point.

To me, when I look at Bell I believe he is done as a player. You can't play to 'not get hurt'. He has guaranteed money and little motivation. He seems more focused on launching his music career than on football. My guess is that he will be terrible for the Jets. He will probably get benched or hurt early in the season and he will be out of the league within two years.
 
LineSkiCat14

LineSkiCat14

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Glad to see it wasn't JUST the Jets he sucked on.

And also glad to see we finally started prioritizing the O-Line.

.. not glad that the O-line still sucks lolol.
 
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