Lineup vs Wake Forest
- Thread starter TRU CANE
- Start date
I hope to see that same lineup again. Once again I saw better defense, even on State made shots, they were contested.
Luke
Matt
Tatum (under new orders)
Amile
Bolden
Harry Grayson and Frank sub in for Luke, Tatum and Bolden, then a steady mix. I would like to see a two minute segment with Javin and one with Vrank. We don't need to have a lead to put those guys in. They know what they are doing, or at least as well as the other Frosh.
Matt
Tatum (under new orders)
Amile
Bolden
Harry Grayson and Frank sub in for Luke, Tatum and Bolden, then a steady mix. I would like to see a two minute segment with Javin and one with Vrank. We don't need to have a lead to put those guys in. They know what they are doing, or at least as well as the other Frosh.
Frank Jackson has to start and play as much as possible IMO. JMO but the team looks better when he's the main ball handler and this team will not reach its full potential without that young man taking on a prominent role. I'm going to reiterate my desire for the same lineup to start with MAYBE Matt Jones being replaced by Allen or Kennard.
Just curious, why does everyone seem to think a message needs to be sent to these players? Do you not think they practice all week and watch film and they must just sit there in silence while they watch it and no coaching is going on at all. Shi$ happens, just not playing well right now, will it get better....maybe not, but if Tatum and Grayson are on the team and not starting and playing 30 minutes, this team is not going to win a championship, sorry.
They talk about and dissect everything that is going on....the players just need to execute better and start playing together better. Grayson needs to shoot better for sure and Tatum needs to finish at the rack, but that hopefully will happen with being on the court. Lot's of year left and these things don't improve sitting on the bench, confidence is low right now as it is, why drag them through the dirt even more.
Watching the ball go in the hole solves a lot of the problems, this team just needs to get hot, every time they score the confidence will get better, Duke is just having a hard time scoring right now.
abu and the #23 just made some jumpers that you just gotta live with and at the end rowen and smith made a few bombs
benching tatum would seem like he is being blamed for the last second dribble t/o....to me tatum is the SF.....yes he has some things to fix, but guys watch him like guys watched austin rivers.........if he drives and everyone is just watching him and not cutting and moving, who does he pass to??
I agree with Boogie, Tatum shouldn't be benched at this point. He needs to have a shorter leash - hero ball shot = Capel trying to hockey sub for him. We need Tatum, but we need him to do some things much better. The same is true for Grayson - I don't think his mental state right now can take much more of a beating. The staff (and his teammates) need to be fully behind him.
I like:
If Grayson and Luke are on the floor together, Tatum and Giles are not.
Either Matt or Frank have to be on the floor at all times.
Either Amile or Bolden have to be on the floor at all times.
I like:
If Grayson and Luke are on the floor together, Tatum and Giles are not.
Either Matt or Frank have to be on the floor at all times.
Either Amile or Bolden have to be on the floor at all times.
Frank needs to hold down the 1for Duke to make a serious run
Grayson needs to get back to the Grayson of last year
Luke is one of our best scorer when he relaxes and lets the game come to him
Jason just quit trying to force the action and play better off the ball
M Bolden the last couple of games he is our best big,,keep playing hard
6th man Matty come in and be that spark plug Duke needs when we start slow
Giles needs playing time, he is looking better every minute he is on the floor.
Jefferson still does not look to be near 100% Get healthy buddy
Grayson needs to get back to the Grayson of last year
Luke is one of our best scorer when he relaxes and lets the game come to him
Jason just quit trying to force the action and play better off the ball
M Bolden the last couple of games he is our best big,,keep playing hard
6th man Matty come in and be that spark plug Duke needs when we start slow
Giles needs playing time, he is looking better every minute he is on the floor.
Jefferson still does not look to be near 100% Get healthy buddy
Has that ever proven to be a successful formula?
91 and 92 Hurley was the point
2001 Jay Williams was the point
2010 Sheyer and sometimes Nolan
2015 Tyus Jones was the point
Now I'm not sure, I would have to go back and check but during the aforementioned years, I do not believe there were many various lineup changes. I don't recall a time where it was successful to often allow the opposing team to dictate your best most cohesive unit. I'm no (HEEL) digger, yes pun intended lol, so I'm all ears if my take is not accurate.
I agree with Tru Cane. I think at this point in the season we need to define some clear roles for each player. I think a starting 5 barring no injuries needs to be established. Coach can then distribute minutes by who's playing well and dictate matchup problems throughout the game.
As far as starters, I like Frank, Luke Jayson, Amile, and Bolden.
As far as starters, I like Frank, Luke Jayson, Amile, and Bolden.
DukieJay, I get your point, but the coaches need to figure this out soon and make a decision and stick with it. We've got to establish some roles for this team to build some unity.
Let's start with the most important position, the point guard position. Maybe you don't agree but to me the best guy has been Frank Jackson and most potential to be exceptional at that position is Frank Jackson. He has started the last two games. Not as many minutes as I hoped to see and I suspect much of that is having to do with the awkward situation of ensuring significant minutes to Grayson, Luke and Matt. Amile is solidified and I know folks don't want to hear it but I think Tatum is solidified as well.
2001 started with Jay Will at point and Nate James at 2 guard. Sometime around the Stanford loss, Duhon became the starter at "point guard" though Jay Will created most of the assists all year. Duhon was a great facilitator that never needed to shoot despite being a darn good scorer. Either Allen or Frank needs to become Duhon. It's a shame we don't have a true point, but Frank and Grayson could benefit, as they will need to show off their creativity and vision to get drafted high.
It never ceases to amaze me the love affair with Jones from this fan base. Don't get me wrong, I like Matt as a person. I think he has poured his heart in to Duke basketball, and his effort is never less than 100%. He is a good defender but not the lock down some try and make him out to be. Offensively he is extremely limited. He cannot create off the bounce and his game is completely dependent on others giving him mostly wide open looks at 3's and his shooting percentage is still not good. If he continues to be a 30+ minute per game guy then Duke is going nowhere in March. He needs to play 20 minutes per game tops. In my opinion, Duke should roll out the following lineup on Saturday:
PG - Jackson...enough is enough. This teams needs a spark and this guy is the best bet to provide it. He can break down a defense and score/kick to open shooters and has the strength/speed to guard opposing point guards. He needs to play 30+ minutes every time out until he proves he just cannot do it. I think with consistent minutes he could easily average 12-15 points and 5 assists per game. Easy.
SG - Kennard. Capel benching him was a complete and utter embarrassment to basketball coaching. Yes he has his problems on defense (not as bad as some make it out to be, but definitely average at best) but he is Duke's most efficient scorer and also one of the best in the country when you look at the numbers. Should play 32-35 minutes plus each game and the offense needs to run through him...9 shots a game won't cut it.
SF - Tatum. Yes he is auditioning for the NBA more than he is playing for Duke but the cold hard reality is that Tatum is Duke's most talented all-around player. If they are going to make a run in March, Tatum will have to put up numbers and I think he can. Just needs to play within the team concept and make better decisions.
PF - Jefferson. Amile is still not healthy but prior to his injury, he was really, really good. Thing is, he is not a 5 and has been asked to do that way too much on this years team. He is a double double waiting to happen and there is not a player on the roster that is respected as a leader more than Amile.
C - Bolden. In my opinion, all this teams needs from Bolden is for him to defend the post. From strictly a body standpoint, he gives Duke it's best chance at an inside presence on defense. He needs to play strong and physical and not allow opposing big men to go off like they have pretty much all season. I really like what I have seen from Bolden of late. He just needs to play with intensity for 20 minutes per game, with Giles spelling him if he gets in foul trouble or is ineffective.
6th Man - Allen. How can anyone not feel for this young man? Coming in to the season he was pretty much the best bet for national player of the year and now in late January he is not even in the discussion for first team all conference. Just crazy how this year has played out for him. With that said, when Grayson is right, he still is one of the best offensive players in the country. He needs to come off the bench and replace Luke and Frank and look to score. He's not a point guard and the coaches need to get him back to slashing to the goal and hunting his shot. Grayson has tried really hard to be a distributor and it's just not his thing. Let Frank do that and get back to being Grayson.
7th man - Giles. He and Bolden should split the center rotation and he can also spell Amile at the 4. Look, Giles did not play basketball for two years. He is going to be a stud, just not going to happen his freshman year at Duke...too much time off and with Duke struggling to win, he just cannot be given the minutes he needs to truly play himself back in to being the player he was in high school before the injuries. He can be a very valuable piece of the puzzle though...just needs to be willing to take on a lesser role for the good of the team.
8th man - Jones. As I mentioned above, needs to play 15-20 minutes per night and perhaps a little more if Duke holds a larger lead late and you want to close them out with a better defensive lineup.
That's my take on what gives Duke the best chance to win but the fact is, the biggest issue for Duke is playing team basketball. If these guys do not gel as a basketball team really soon this season will go down as the most disappointing in the history of Duke basketball and it won't be close. I'm not sure with so many of them wanting to be the alpha dog that they will ever reach their full potential and that's really disappointing. Go Duke!
PG - Jackson...enough is enough. This teams needs a spark and this guy is the best bet to provide it. He can break down a defense and score/kick to open shooters and has the strength/speed to guard opposing point guards. He needs to play 30+ minutes every time out until he proves he just cannot do it. I think with consistent minutes he could easily average 12-15 points and 5 assists per game. Easy.
SG - Kennard. Capel benching him was a complete and utter embarrassment to basketball coaching. Yes he has his problems on defense (not as bad as some make it out to be, but definitely average at best) but he is Duke's most efficient scorer and also one of the best in the country when you look at the numbers. Should play 32-35 minutes plus each game and the offense needs to run through him...9 shots a game won't cut it.
SF - Tatum. Yes he is auditioning for the NBA more than he is playing for Duke but the cold hard reality is that Tatum is Duke's most talented all-around player. If they are going to make a run in March, Tatum will have to put up numbers and I think he can. Just needs to play within the team concept and make better decisions.
PF - Jefferson. Amile is still not healthy but prior to his injury, he was really, really good. Thing is, he is not a 5 and has been asked to do that way too much on this years team. He is a double double waiting to happen and there is not a player on the roster that is respected as a leader more than Amile.
C - Bolden. In my opinion, all this teams needs from Bolden is for him to defend the post. From strictly a body standpoint, he gives Duke it's best chance at an inside presence on defense. He needs to play strong and physical and not allow opposing big men to go off like they have pretty much all season. I really like what I have seen from Bolden of late. He just needs to play with intensity for 20 minutes per game, with Giles spelling him if he gets in foul trouble or is ineffective.
6th Man - Allen. How can anyone not feel for this young man? Coming in to the season he was pretty much the best bet for national player of the year and now in late January he is not even in the discussion for first team all conference. Just crazy how this year has played out for him. With that said, when Grayson is right, he still is one of the best offensive players in the country. He needs to come off the bench and replace Luke and Frank and look to score. He's not a point guard and the coaches need to get him back to slashing to the goal and hunting his shot. Grayson has tried really hard to be a distributor and it's just not his thing. Let Frank do that and get back to being Grayson.
7th man - Giles. He and Bolden should split the center rotation and he can also spell Amile at the 4. Look, Giles did not play basketball for two years. He is going to be a stud, just not going to happen his freshman year at Duke...too much time off and with Duke struggling to win, he just cannot be given the minutes he needs to truly play himself back in to being the player he was in high school before the injuries. He can be a very valuable piece of the puzzle though...just needs to be willing to take on a lesser role for the good of the team.
8th man - Jones. As I mentioned above, needs to play 15-20 minutes per night and perhaps a little more if Duke holds a larger lead late and you want to close them out with a better defensive lineup.
That's my take on what gives Duke the best chance to win but the fact is, the biggest issue for Duke is playing team basketball. If these guys do not gel as a basketball team really soon this season will go down as the most disappointing in the history of Duke basketball and it won't be close. I'm not sure with so many of them wanting to be the alpha dog that they will ever reach their full potential and that's really disappointing. Go Duke!
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We have so much talent that it's tough to keep one of the top 8 guys on the bench.
With that said, I thought at the start of the season Frank was the key to winning a championship.
Now, it seems this team still doesn't have an identity and roles yet. With injuries and K being out this team is still in November mode with not much time to figure it out.
That 2nd half performance against Miami was amazing! The team finally made defense #1 priority and the offense flowed from the defense.
I think Frank needs to start. He is the closest we have to a pg. Let Grayson play off the ball and attack the rim like he does well. Let Luke be open for the shots. Matt is a great glue guy plater but no he doesn't need to run the point. So we end up with who starting spots with Frank, Luke, Matt and Grayson for 2 spots or 3 if Duke goes small. Who do you leave on the bench? It's a tough situation.
I say go Frank, Luke or Grayson - (one will have be 6th man), Tatum, Jefferson, and Bolden.
Bring Giles and or Luke or Grayson in at the 16:00 minute mark.
I just keep looking back at that defense in the 2nd half Miami game and am reminded of what we all thought this team can and still can become.
With that said, I thought at the start of the season Frank was the key to winning a championship.
Now, it seems this team still doesn't have an identity and roles yet. With injuries and K being out this team is still in November mode with not much time to figure it out.
That 2nd half performance against Miami was amazing! The team finally made defense #1 priority and the offense flowed from the defense.
I think Frank needs to start. He is the closest we have to a pg. Let Grayson play off the ball and attack the rim like he does well. Let Luke be open for the shots. Matt is a great glue guy plater but no he doesn't need to run the point. So we end up with who starting spots with Frank, Luke, Matt and Grayson for 2 spots or 3 if Duke goes small. Who do you leave on the bench? It's a tough situation.
I say go Frank, Luke or Grayson - (one will have be 6th man), Tatum, Jefferson, and Bolden.
Bring Giles and or Luke or Grayson in at the 16:00 minute mark.
I just keep looking back at that defense in the 2nd half Miami game and am reminded of what we all thought this team can and still can become.
I don't think it matters who starts. What matters more is how players buy into moving the ball, moving without the ball, and working hard for all 30 seconds on defense, not 15 seconds. If a starter doesn't do that, he comes out. There's guys on the bench who will gladly take his place. You hang your head or stop to complain to the refs, out you come.
It does matter who starts. I believe the lineup should start with Grayson. He is the fuel that makes the engine run. Put that on him from a positive standpoint. Enough is enough with his lethargic play. Emphasize to him how important he is, and I don't care if feelings get hurt, tell the rest of the team the same thing. This team is going to come alive if Grayson comes alive. Go with Kenard, Jefferson, Tatum & Bolden, with Jackson and Jones off bench. A special message should be given to Tatum that he's not too good to go to the bench. He's not in NBA yet, and until then, play like you love Duke
If I was a Duke freshman ball player for K, I'd be diving all over the court in practice and in games, even if I didn't have to be. When ALlen dove on the floor against the badgers in 2015, the whole team ignited. Lance Thomas always played defense with white powder on his nose, all wide eyed and jerking all around the lane. That style makes opposing offenses uncomfortable. When Dennis Smith was sitting back and canning three balls in Matt's face, sure Matt was there with a hand up, but he could've been a little closer and poking at the ball. You don't have to over commit, you just act jumpy and unpredictable and keep your feet moving. It is exhausting playing defense this way, but it really works. When we blew out BC, we were very active on D. It leads to run outs and wide open shots.
I think the team we had w/o the Frosh playing is better than anything from the past month. Also feel that at least Tatum - and possibly Giles - needs to be sent a strong message re: Duke basketball. Their +/- on the season is about the worst on the team, so we can send that message while probably giving ourselves the best chance to win tomorrow. So I think we'll see: Jax/Grayson, Luke, Matt, Amile, Bolden.
IMO we need to commit to a lineup rather than trying to guess who's hot and who's not - it's like trying to time a stock purchase, usually better off just buying and holding. So @ PG I'd have Jax and at C I'd have Bolden. They'll continue making mistakes but are our best long-term players at those 2 positions.
IMO we need to commit to a lineup rather than trying to guess who's hot and who's not - it's like trying to time a stock purchase, usually better off just buying and holding. So @ PG I'd have Jax and at C I'd have Bolden. They'll continue making mistakes but are our best long-term players at those 2 positions.
I don't think Giles needs a message to be honest- if you want to say Tatum does I at least understand that. Giles hasn't played in 15 months and I don't think he will be 100% for a long time after his Duke career is over. I think he goes hard and is still learning how to play.
I largely agree with those sentiments. I think Allen needs to come off the bench right now. It is a surprising turn for a guy that was preseason POY, but it is where they are right now. Matt is better coming off the bench, but I don't necessarily agree with the notion that extended minutes for him preclude Duke from March success. For example, his minutes during the 2015 run were 29, 34, 21, 28, 28, and 23. The difference is that in 2015 he was a piece of the puzzle and he could just be what he is best at: good team defender and spot shooter. The problem this year is that he hasn't had that luxury because most of the rest of the team isn't pulling their weight. He is being forced into a bigger role that doesn't suit his game, and that isn't his fault. His effort has been commendable under the circumstances.