Looking at the 2015 situation

frost1

All-Conference
Dec 21, 2001
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By not making a bowl might turn out to be a blessing for our football team, as we go forward. Hiring of Gran & Hinshaw are really good hires for our program. their coaching plus their recruiting, to me are a major upgrade to our program.
So like all true BBN fans, I would have like to have went bowling in 2015. Since we did not, I see a better run football program and more success on the field in 2016. GO CATS
 
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Anon1712931820

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Apr 11, 2008
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I honestly feel the same way, but it sucks seeming to always have to have that perspective with UK football. I believe that if given the time Stoops will have us competing in the East, but it would sure be nice to reminisce on a successful season instead of constantly having only positive "hopes" for the future.

Only negative for next season is the schedule gets tougher and we will have to have plenty of breaks go our way to see a bowl game.
 

docholiday51

Heisman
Oct 19, 2001
22,011
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Agree, it is amazing that we are here on the board on Jan 1 talking football at all. The fact that we can find as much positive stuff to talk about(seeing how the second half of the season went downhill) may bode well for next season. We all seem to agree that the new staff is trying to do the right things.
 

JPFisher

Heisman
Jul 24, 2013
6,112
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The thing about it is that Stoops made a good hire. Dawson is a gifted offensive mind who likes a high powered offensive attack. Stoops wanted sustained drives and Dawson wanted the home run, a lot of points, etc. When they clashed, Dawson dragged the whole team with him. There's no way to predict that sort of thing.

All the progress we built under Brown and the team unity and excitement from recruiting was pissed away. Now we have a solid defense being replaced with a lot of younger guys and we have an offense still getting older and two coaches proven to be solid recruiters and teachers.

Gran and Hinshaw will bring UK a ore success and I predict fairly quickly.
 

sluggercatfan

Heisman
Aug 17, 2004
35,953
29,631
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The thing about it is that Stoops made a good hire. Dawson is a gifted offensive mind who likes a high powered offensive attack. Stoops wanted sustained drives and Dawson wanted the home run, a lot of points, etc. When they clashed, Dawson dragged the whole team with him. There's no way to predict that sort of thing.

All the progress we built under Brown and the team unity and excitement from recruiting was pissed away. Now we have a solid defense being replaced with a lot of younger guys and we have an offense still getting older and two coaches proven to be solid recruiters and teachers.

Gran and Hinshaw will bring UK a ore success and I predict fairly quickly.
Anyone notice you don't hear so much talk about recruiting against the "big boys" anymore?
 

CB3UK

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Apr 15, 2012
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I agree, and I think we all do, that Stoops and Co are trying and giving 110% effort to right this ship. I think most are frustrated at some of the rookie mistakes the staff has made, but I don't think anyone can question their effort, commitment, or drive to have Kentucky succeed. That's why I think everyone wants Stoops to be the guy. Going in to year four its really time to expect results and for him to put up or shut up. Just a bowl game this year. That's the bar for success. Schedule is tougher but it's still year four. Years five and six and seven we'll see where we're at. But it is simply not going to be OK to fall short again this coming season.
 
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WildCard

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The thing about it is that Stoops made a good hire. Dawson is a gifted offensive mind who likes a high powered offensive attack. Stoops wanted sustained drives and Dawson wanted the home run, a lot of points, etc. When they clashed, Dawson dragged the whole team with him. There's no way to predict that sort of thing.

All the progress we built under Brown and the team unity and excitement from recruiting was pissed away. Now we have a solid defense being replaced with a lot of younger guys and we have an offense still getting older and two coaches proven to be solid recruiters and teachers.

Gran and Hinshaw will bring UK a ore success and I predict fairly quickly.
JP, I agree Gran was a good hire but I'm not sure that is a fair characterization of Dawson. To begin with, it remains to be seen if Dawson is a "gifted offensive mind". He certainly studied under one (Holgerson) for a few years. Gifted or not, at the time of his hire I thought he was a good fit to continue what Brown had started without too much offensive interruption. I do believe the QB position was handled poorly but it was also handled poorly before Dawson arrived.

To say Dawson dragged the whole team down is quite a stretch; there were plenty of issues. Without much question Stoops and Dawson were not on the same page but consistent "sustained drives" with UK's O-line was going to be a difficult undertaking. And yes, you actually can mostly avoid such "schematic differences" by carefully vetting your replacement candidates. JMO.

Peace
 

UKWildcats#8

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Jun 25, 2011
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I'm not buying that nonsense, sorry OP. There is no way to spin not going to a bowl game was a better outcome for UK football in 2015. I cringe as I expect similar threads this time next year.
 

TJS4UK

Junior
Jun 27, 2002
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Anyone notice you don't hear so much talk about recruiting against the "big boys" anymore?

I'd guess that is because the 2016 class is virtually full. We have a lot of kids with some pretty big offer sheets. Our last commit, Jordan Bonner, had a solid offer sheet (UT was after him pretty hard) & was a 5.7 3 star. Our most recent signee, Tate Leavitt had a solid offer sheet (including Alabama) as well & was a 5.9 4 star. Pringle & Johnson II may not have big offer sheets, but they are solid JUCO players at need positions. Many JUCO kids slip thru the cracks... No big deal. Pringle did have offers from Clemson & SC out of HS. OTOH, UK might be the favorite to land Tadaryll Marshal who does have a very nice offer sheet (just decommited from UT).
 
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merrimanm

Heisman
Dec 14, 2009
17,456
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113
I'd guess that is because the 2016 class is virtually full. We have a lot of kids with some pretty big offer sheets. Our last commit, Jordan Bonner, had a solid offer sheet (UT was after him pretty hard) & was a 5.7 3 star. Our most recent signee, Tate Leavitt had a solid offer sheet (including Alabama) as well & was a 5.9 4 star. Pringle & Johnson II may not have big offer sheets, but they are solid JUCO players at need positions. Many JUCO kids slip thru the cracks... No big deal. OTOH, UK might be the favorite to land Tadaryll Marshal who does have a very nice offer sheet (just decommited from UT).
Marshal can flat out play too.
 

JPFisher

Heisman
Jul 24, 2013
6,112
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WHAT???????
What part of our defense was solid last season?

The secondary, linebacker play was solid but not stellar.

Though the defense as a whole would have undoubtedly looked better if time of possession wasn't so horribly skewed.
 

JPFisher

Heisman
Jul 24, 2013
6,112
10,826
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JP, I agree Gran was a good hire but I'm not sure that is a fair characterization of Dawson. To begin with, it remains to be seen if Dawson is a "gifted offensive mind". He certainly studied under one (Holgerson) for a few years. Gifted or not, at the time of his hire I thought he was a good fit to continue what Brown had started without too much offensive interruption. I do believe the QB position was handled poorly but it was also handled poorly before Dawson arrived.

To say Dawson dragged the whole team down is quite a stretch; there were plenty of issues. Without much question Stoops and Dawson were not on the same page but consistent "sustained drives" with UK's O-line was going to be a difficult undertaking. And yes, you actually can mostly avoid such "schematic differences" by carefully vetting your replacement candidates. JMO.

Peace

I'm just wondering what part of the QB system was messed up before Dawson arrived. We used a 2-QB system the first year out of necessity while redshirting a potential future starter (Towles). Last year, Towles underperformed but the flashes of good play were apparent, so we kept the redshirt on Barker at all costs because he would have benefitted from an additional year.

This year, Towles performed horribly at times and well at times but until the last two games, Barker sat even though he was a viable option with no redshirt to keep him on the bench. It is painfully obvious that Dawson was the root cause of the offensive woes this past season seeing as how the QB's who left took his side and basically everyone else took Stoops's side in the post-season. Something was up.

Special teams did not help our cause this year, but any sort of cohesive offensive play-calling would've helped us win a few more games. Our line is a paper bag and you're going to run a deep pass play? Seriously? Piss poor OLine or not, Dawson had the scoring mindset while Stoops had the possession mindset. Dawson was lob it and score regardless of down whereas Stoops wanted smart football to be played with runs, short and intermediate passes, and first downs.

Dawson has a great offensive mind, but he needs to hone it and use it at an institution where the program is already developed. If we had the OLine or weren't in a conference known for NFL defensive line play, Dawson would've likely gotten us 35+ PPG.

I think Dawson belongs in Lubbock. He'd bring in the high octane they so desire at the expense of or without regard of the defense.

JMO.
 

Sevecat

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Jul 18, 2003
684
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JP, I agree Gran was a good hire but I'm not sure that is a fair characterization of Dawson. To begin with, it remains to be seen if Dawson is a "gifted offensive mind". He certainly studied under one (Holgerson) for a few years. Gifted or not, at the time of his hire I thought he was a good fit to continue what Brown had started without too much offensive interruption. I do believe the QB position was handled poorly but it was also handled poorly before Dawson arrived.

To say Dawson dragged the whole team down is quite a stretch; there were plenty of issues. Without much question Stoops and Dawson were not on the same page but consistent "sustained drives" with UK's O-line was going to be a difficult undertaking. And yes, you actually can mostly avoid such "schematic differences" by carefully vetting your replacement candidates. JMO.

Peace
No stretch at all. He was a Bum!
 
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Bluetick2100

All-Conference
Apr 15, 2007
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The secondary, linebacker play was solid but not stellar.

Though the defense as a whole would have undoubtedly looked better if time of possession wasn't so horribly skewed.
I just don't see last season defense as solid.
The secondary did have some flashes for solid play a few times, early in the season.

When Lewis went out, what little defense we had went with him.
He was the leader.

I'm just somewhat disappointed that Stoops defense's haven't lived up to the expectations I had when he too the job.
 

docholiday51

Heisman
Oct 19, 2001
22,011
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I'm just wondering what part of the QB system was messed up before Dawson arrived. We used a 2-QB system the first year out of necessity while redshirting a potential future starter (Towles). Last year, Towles underperformed but the flashes of good play were apparent, so we kept the redshirt on Barker at all costs because he would have benefitted from an additional year.

This year, Towles performed horribly at times and well at times but until the last two games, Barker sat even though he was a viable option with no redshirt to keep him on the bench. It is painfully obvious that Dawson was the root cause of the offensive woes this past season seeing as how the QB's who left took his side and basically everyone else took Stoops's side in the post-season. Something was up.

Special teams did not help our cause this year, but any sort of cohesive offensive play-calling would've helped us win a few more games. Our line is a paper bag and you're going to run a deep pass play? Seriously? Piss poor OLine or not, Dawson had the scoring mindset while Stoops had the possession mindset. Dawson was lob it and score regardless of down whereas Stoops wanted smart football to be played with runs, short and intermediate passes, and first downs.

Dawson has a great offensive mind, but he needs to hone it and use it at an institution where the program is already developed. If we had the OLine or weren't in a conference known for NFL defensive line play, Dawson would've likely gotten us 35+ PPG.

I think Dawson belongs in Lubbock. He'd bring in the high octane they so desire at the expense of or without regard of the defense.

JMO.
With what we think the relationship was between Stoops and Dawson (particularly as the year wore on) if stoops was convinced that Barker was a better choice he (Barker) would have played sooner than he did. Putting the supposed relationship between Dawson and Towles aside. Stoops must have thought he was the best option. When Barker did start or play in contested games(Vandy and UL) Towles got in at crunch time so if Stoops "meddled" in the offense as much as people say he wasn't 100% convinced that Barker was a better choice. He probably knew Towles was gone after the season but opted to get as much mileage out of him as he could.

All this to say that our QB position was/is in worse shape than we thought
 

WildCard

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I'm just wondering what part of the QB system was messed up before Dawson arrived. We used a 2-QB system the first year out of necessity while redshirting a potential future starter (Towles). Last year, Towles underperformed but the flashes of good play were apparent, so we kept the redshirt on Barker at all costs because he would have benefitted from an additional year.
When Stoops and Brown came in they presumably wanted to go with some kind of ball control passing game. At least that is what Brown's offensive background suggested. Smith could handle it but 2012 proved (at least to me) that Whitlow could not. I think all of us knew that Whitlow was a misfit in a passing offense. Yet Whitlow was installed as the #2 guy if Smith went down, which he did. When you are in the situation they were in (i.e., needing to show "improvement" from the past years) you simply cannot red shirt a guy that can help you win a game. My opinion at the time (and I still believe it) that they should have gone with Towles as the #2.

Well, after Whitlow gets the majority of 2013 snaps and helps produce a 2-10 season they see the light and ask him to move to TE...and he transfers. With Smith still out and Whitlow gone the inexperienced Towles takes over at QB in 2014. Stud QB recruit Barker is red shirted despite a fairly modest season long performance by Towles (leading rusher that year). Hypothetical question here: might Towles have been better in 2014 if he had played in 2013 (which ended up being a throw away year anyway).

With a year in the saddle Towles is the obvious QB choice for 2015 but despite more pedestrian passing performance Barker and the supposedly good Phillips never sniff the field until Barkers gets 2 starts at the end of the year.. Why not give Barker or Towles a planned series in the first half of every game to see how they perform? If it is a planned approach it will not be the proverbial QB controversy and games are usually not won or lost in the 2nd quarter. Besides you have to get the #2 guy some legitimate experience if #1 goes down.

So Towles and Phillips both transfer out at the end of 2015 defaulting the job to the so far less than special Barker and creating the current situation of a very shallow QB roster.

To sum up, playing Whitlow early was a mistake which cascaded through the following year with his transfer. The QB problem was then exacerbated by the failure to play either Barker or Phillips as Towles struggled through 2015. I'm not sure how the staff could have messed up more. IMO, the problem was wayyy to much focus on red shirting for the future when the focus should have been "we have to do what we can to win a game or two now". Nobody red shirts a player that can help you now. All JMO.

Peace
 

docholiday51

Heisman
Oct 19, 2001
22,011
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When Stoops and Brown came in they presumably wanted to go with some kind of ball control passing game. At least that is what Brown's offensive background suggested. Smith could handle it but 2012 proved (at least to me) that Whitlow could not. I think all of us knew that Whitlow was a misfit in a passing offense. Yet Whitlow was installed as the #2 guy if Smith went down, which he did. When you are in the situation they were in (i.e., needing to show "improvement" from the past years) you simply cannot red shirt a guy that can help you win a game. My opinion at the time (and I still believe it) that they should have gone with Towles as the #2.

Well, after Whitlow gets the majority of 2013 snaps and helps produce a 2-10 season they see the light and ask him to move to TE...and he transfers. With Smith still out and Whitlow gone the inexperienced Towles takes over at QB in 2014. Stud QB recruit Barker is red shirted despite a fairly modest season long performance by Towles (leading rusher that year). Hypothetical question here: might Towles have been better in 2014 if he had played in 2013 (which ended up being a throw away year anyway).

With a year in the saddle Towles is the obvious QB choice for 2015 but despite more pedestrian passing performance Barker and the supposedly good Phillips never sniff the field until Barkers gets 2 starts at the end of the year.. Why not give Barker or Towles a planned series in the first half of every game to see how they perform? If it is a planned approach it will not be the proverbial QB controversy and games are usually not won or lost in the 2nd quarter. Besides you have to get the #2 guy some legitimate experience if #1 goes down.

So Towles and Phillips both transfer out at the end of 2015 defaulting the job to the so far less than special Barker and creating the current situation of a very shallow QB roster.

To sum up, playing Whitlow early was a mistake which cascaded through the following year with his transfer. The QB problem was then exacerbated by the failure to play either Barker or Phillips as Towles struggled through 2015. I'm not sure how the staff could have messed up more. IMO, the problem was wayyy to much focus on red shirting for the future when the focus should have been "we have to do what we can to win a game or two now". Nobody red shirts a player that can help you now. All JMO.

Peace
Some thought(me included) that Whitlow was the wrong choice to begin with and it cost a chance to win the WKU game .It seemed that very quickly it was decided that '13 would be a throw away season. Mismanagement of the QB position began right from the get go. If Brown had stayed this year might have gone better.

It is possible that Gran is a better match for this situation than was Brown, if he can find or manufacture a serviceable QB then Stoops and Co. may yet pull this out of the fire.