NBA Playoff Format

[Anon1712931820]

Is it time for the league to go to a top 16 team seeding from the entire league instead of 8 from the West and 8 from the East?

Since Jordan's Bulls the West has won 12 titles to the East's 5 (two of those being the "super team" that had to be created for LeBron to get his title(s)).

In the West's 12 title seasons the East has only pushed them to a game 7 twice and a game 6 three times, so half of the series were over in 5 games.

Why reward mediocrity allowing East teams with sub .500 records to make it into the playoffs over West teams with winning records (this season was the exception where the #8 East team actually had a better record than the #8 West)? Does anyone actually think that the semi finals would have included anymore than 1 East team (Cleveland)?

I think it's time for a change. What say you?

 

[oldsports_]

NBA playoffs =WWE wrestling

 

[TruBluCatFan]

No. These things tend to be cyclical.

 

[MWes11]

No. These things tend to be cyclical.

This.

 

[Blue63Madison]

In the West's 12 title seasons the East has only pushed them to a game 7 twice and a game 6 three times, so half of the series were over in 5 games.

LOL ... 5 out of 17 isn't exactly "half". Your obsession with LeBron is hilarious.

 

[.S&C.]

SOMETHING NEEDS TO CHANGE. PROGRESSION PROGRESSION PROGRESSION!!! DONT LIKE SO CHANGE CHANGE CHANGE!!

OUTRAGE PROTEST!!

:sunglasses:

 

[weatherbird]

Is it time for the league to go to a top 16 team seeding from the entire league instead of 8 from the West and 8 from the East?

Since Jordan's Bulls the West has won 12 titles to the East's 5 (two of those being the "super team" that had to be created for LeBron to get his title(s)).

In the West's 12 title seasons the East has only pushed them to a game 7 twice and a game 6 three times, so half of the series were over in 5 games.

Why reward mediocrity allowing East teams with sub .500 records to make it into the playoffs over West teams with winning records (this season was the exception where the #8 East team actually had a better record than the #8 West)? Does anyone actually think that the semi finals would have included anymore than 1 East team (Cleveland)?

I think it's time for a change. What say you?

No, I'm thinking a 5 game series round robin style tournament, that lasts until football season is what they should do. At least I would have some sports to watch in the summer.

 

[bthaunert]

No. These things tend to be cyclical.

Exactly, Since the NBA Finals started, the East has won 36 and the West has won 29.

The 60's were one sided (East)
The 70's and 80's was balanced (10 titles each, no more than 2 in a rown by a conference)
Since 2004, the East has won 5 and the West has won 7

 

[Anon1712931820]

LOL ... 5 out of 17 isn't exactly "half". Your obsession with LeBron is hilarious.

WTF are you talking about? Don't think too hard on this...don't want you to hurt yourself:

NEVER SAID 5/17 was half

What I did say was OUT OF THE TWELVE TITLES the west has won in that span only half of them (that means 6 series since your so incompetent) went past game 5.

That stat tells me that the West has blown out the East in half of the title series they've won since MJ.

What in the hell does that have to do with LeBron and show me a single stinking post I've made about LeBron to be obsessed? Can't stand idiots like yourself who make statements with zero evidence to back it up. You speak out of your *** 100% of the time.

 

[Anon1712931820]

Exactly, Since the NBA Finals started, the East has won 36 and the West has won 29.

The 60's were one sided (East)
The 70's and 80's was balanced (10 titles each, no more than 2 in a rown by a conference)
Since 2004, the East has won 5 and the West has won 7

That includes the "super team" that had to be created in order to get LeBron his. Without that it would be 9-3 in favor of the West. Why pick out 2004 out of thin air? The best representation is to go off of after MJ left because he was the sole reason the East won 6 out of 8 years. After that the Lakers with Shaq and Kobe were the most dominant consecutively winning 3 straight.

How about saying since 2009 the West has won 5 out of 7?

 

[Anon1712931820]

SOMETHING NEEDS TO CHANGE. PROGRESSION PROGRESSION PROGRESSION!!! DONT LIKE SO CHANGE CHANGE CHANGE!!

OUTRAGE PROTEST!!

:sunglasses:

Nothing about not liking. All to do with over the last 20 years without LeBron joining with Dwayne and Bosh the West would have a 14-5 advantage in titles with blowouts happening in the series a majority of the time.

 

[rick64]

The playoffs drag on too long. No doubt about that. Getting two full days off between game 1 and game 2 playing in the same town. Please!!!!!!

 

[Blue63Madison]

So LeBron joining his best friend Wade in Miami, is frowned upon, but Shaq going to the Lakers to win titles with Kobe was ok? Explain that logic please.

 

[.S&C.]

Nothing about not liking. All to do with over the last 20 years without LeBron joining with Dwayne and Bosh the West would have a 14-5 advantage in titles with blowouts happening in the series a majority of the time.

I've just been in a protest mood lately. Wanna smash something that doesn't agree with me don't know why.

 

[Blue63Madison]

WTF are you talking about? Don't think too hard on this...don't want you to hurt yourself:

NEVER SAID 5/17 was half

What I did say was OUT OF THE TWELVE TITLES the west has won in that span only half of them (that means 6 series since your so incompetent) went past game 5.

That stat tells me that the West has blown out the East in half of the title series they've won since MJ.

What in the hell does that have to do with LeBron and show me a single stinking post I've made about LeBron to be obsessed? Can't stand idiots like yourself who make statements with zero evidence to back it up. You speak out of your *** 100% of the time.

The time frame of your post is 17 years. You cite 5 finals to make your point. My bad if I have you confused with one of the other LeBron haters, but I'm guessing I don't.

 

[MWes11]

I love when people say "take so and so off of a team and they wouldn't have won." Yeah no sh*t. If you take the best players off of the teams, they aren't going to win. Take Shaq off the Lakers during their three straight and they don't win. Take Jordan off the Bulls and they don't win. Take Steph off the Warriors and they don't win.

Why are people making their own sample sizes when we actually have the whole history of the league and all of its champions at our disposal? East has won 36 times and the West has won 29 from what someone above stated. Overall pretty even.

 

[Anon1712931820]

The time frame of your post is 17 years. You cite 5 finals to make your point. My bad if I have you confused with one of the other LeBron haters, but I'm guessing I don't.

You are confused and like I said...bring some evidence before you start speaking out of your *** again please. I did cite 17 years as my span but I also state OUT OF the 12 the west has won that 6 of them went to a game 6 or 7, so that means 6 did not...which is half.

 

[Big_Blue79]

That includes the "super team" that had to be created in order to get LeBron his. Without that it would be 9-3 in favor of the West. Why pick out 2004 out of thin air? The best representation is to go off of after MJ left because he was the sole reason the East won 6 out of 8 years. After that the Lakers with Shaq and Kobe were the most dominant consecutively winning 3 straight.

How about saying since 2009 the West has won 5 out of 7?

You're going with Jordan as the sole reason for East dominance, yet you ignore that your preferred time frame not so coincidentally coincides with the careers of two of the best ever - Kobe and Duncan (both top 12) - largely responsible for 10 titles. Wow, shocking that in an era dominated by two players on West teams, the West has more titles. Please do not limit your gifts to sports, the human race needs you!

show me a single stinking post I've made about LeBron to be obsessed?

LeBron has made 6 straight Finals...yeah we know. In a garbage East 4 times with the Miami All Stars and 2 straight times with 2 more of the most talented players in the East.

(two of those being the "super team" that had to be created for LeBron to get his title(s)).

That includes the "super team" that had to be created in order to get LeBron his.

All to do with over the last 20 years without LeBron joining with Dwayne and Bosh the West would have a 14-5 advantage in titles with blowouts happening in the series a majority of the time.

 

[MWes11]

You're going with Jordan as the sole reason for East dominance, yet you ignore that your preferred time frame not so coincidentally coincides with the careers of two of the best ever - Kobe and Duncan (both top 12) - largely responsible for 10 titles. Wow, shocking that in an era dominated by two players on West teams, the West has more titles. Please do not limit your gifts to sports, the human race needs you!

↑
show me a single stinking post I've made about LeBron to be obsessed?
↑
LeBron has made 6 straight Finals...yeah we know. In a garbage East 4 times with the Miami All Stars and 2 straight times with 2 more of the most talented players in the East.
↑
(two of those being the "super team" that had to be created for LeBron to get his title(s)).
↑
That includes the "super team" that had to be created in order to get LeBron his.
↑
All to do with over the last 20 years without LeBron joining with Dwayne and Bosh the West would have a 14-5 advantage in titles with blowouts happening in the series a majority of the time.

 

[Blue63Madison]

Too funny. :smiley:

 

[bthaunert]

That includes the "super team" that had to be created in order to get LeBron his. Without that it would be 9-3 in favor of the West. Why pick out 2004 out of thin air? The best representation is to go off of after MJ left because he was the sole reason the East won 6 out of 8 years. After that the Lakers with Shaq and Kobe were the most dominant consecutively winning 3 straight.

How about saying since 2009 the West has won 5 out of 7?

Yes, you're getting the picture. I picked 2004 because I wanted to show you that you can skew stats however you want. It was also the end of the Duncan/Robinson and Shaq/Kobe era.

You say MJ is the sole reason the Bulls won it all. I would say that Shaq going to the Lakers from the eastern conference is THE reason they won 3 straight. If he stays in Orlando, there is a good chance they win a few of those titles between 1999-2003. Without him, no way Kobe leads them to 3 straight by himself.

It's so easy to play the "what if" game".

 

[Anon1712931820]

↑
show me a single stinking post I've made about LeBron to be obsessed?
↑
LeBron has made 6 straight Finals...yeah we know. In a garbage East 4 times with the Miami All Stars and 2 straight times with 2 more of the most talented players in the East.
↑
(two of those being the "super team" that had to be created for LeBron to get his title(s)).
↑
That includes the "super team" that had to be created in order to get LeBron his.
↑
All to do with over the last 20 years without LeBron joining with Dwayne and Bosh the West would have a 14-5 advantage in titles with blowouts happening in the series a majority of the time.

Ohh lol. Dude was meaning in obsessed in a negative way being a LeBron hater haha. I was taking it as him calling me a LeBron lover. And all of those quotes were in regard to the same exact situation...two of the East winning teams were the "super team".

Not obsessed, but do not care for his attitude and "I'm smarter than everyone in the room" persona he puts on. I think he is the greatest athlete to ever play the game and is close to being the most dominant, but to me his act has gotten annoying. Self proclaimed King....ran off to Miami to win 2 rings out of 4 tries when he was talking not 5...not 6....lol. And then he runs back to Cleveland to assemble his own super team and more than likely is going to be 0-2 in his attempts at a title.

Dude is one of the greatest of all time, but when it comes to the Finals he has benefited from a weak East and commands so much salary and ball possession that his teams more often than not lose to teams who play team ball and not one on one iso.

 

[MWes11]

Ohh lol. Dude was meaning in obsessed in a negative way being a LeBron hater haha. I was taking it as him calling me a LeBron lover. And all of those quotes were in regard to the same exact situation...two of the East winning teams were the "super team".

Not obsessed, but do not care for his attitude and "I'm smarter than everyone in the room" persona he puts on. I think he is the greatest athlete to ever play the game and is close to being the most dominant, but to me his act has gotten annoying. Self proclaimed King....ran off to Miami to win 2 rings out of 4 tries when he was talking not 5...not 6....lol. And then he runs back to Cleveland to assemble his own super team and more than likely is going to be 0-2 in his attempts at a title.

Dude is one of the greatest of all time, but when it comes to the Finals he has benefited from a weak East and commands so much salary and ball possession that his teams more often than not lose to teams who play team ball and not one on one iso.

Haha I know. Just giving you a hard time with the gif. All in good fun.

 

[Big_Blue79]

The so-called super team argument shows you either don't know NBA history or care only about the Decision. It's been debunked as First Take level garbage for years. Not even debatable, really. For example, you realize Kobe has never won a playoff series without a legit (and not, say, Jamaal Magloire in 2004) All Star big man? That Bird never won titles w/out McHale and Parrish? Magic with KAJ/Worthy? Jordan/Pippen?

Also, phrases like "team ball" and "one on one iso?" Either so vague as to be meaningless (lol at Lebron being, somehow, not about team ball, yet heavily criticized for being too sharing throughout his career) or just wrong or both.

Remember Jordan selfishly earning $30m in the 19 effin' 90s? Magic with a record (at the time) contract? Surely you remember Kobe playing for peanuts - tens of millions of dollars of peanuts - over the years? Let's look at Lebron - playing far (as in almost certainly > $100m in his career) below actual market value for years thanks to max contracts, and yet he's the one crippling his team by taking a discount from that below market salary to fit in to Miami's cap space? Maybe Cleveland in 2005 could have afforded another Larry Hughes type player if he'd taken a discount below his already severely discounted rookie contract (another imposed salary ceiling), because we all know unlimited money always leads to titles - just look at the Dolan Knicks, champions of the world, and the Phrokorov Nets, second best in NYC area!

If you want to criticize Lebron, start with actual things that matter, like not developing a post game until 2012, or losing his jump shot this year. You know, things that matter.

 

[weatherbird]

Ohh lol. Dude was meaning in obsessed in a negative way being a LeBron hater haha. I was taking it as him calling me a LeBron lover. And all of those quotes were in regard to the same exact situation...two of the East winning teams were the "super team".

Not obsessed, but do not care for his attitude and "I'm smarter than everyone in the room" persona he puts on. I think he is the greatest athlete to ever play the game and is close to being the most dominant, but to me his act has gotten annoying. Self proclaimed King....ran off to Miami to win 2 rings out of 4 tries when he was talking not 5...not 6....lol. And then he runs back to Cleveland to assemble his own super team and more than likely is going to be 0-2 in his attempts at a title.

Dude is one of the greatest of all time, but when it comes to the Finals he has benefited from a weak East and commands so much salary and ball possession that his teams more often than not lose to teams who play team ball and not one on one iso.

I can't understand why you keep calling Miami a "super team". They had 3 great players surrounded by a bunch of role players. I got news for you, that is pretty much the formula on every title winning team. Now, had Paul joined them, then I would understand the "super team", but most of the title winning teams are constructed the same way. Was the Spurs a "super team"? Duncan, Parker, Ginobili (sp?). Did Jordan not have Pippen and Grant, along with adding Rodman for the second series of titles? The Warriors are constructed a little different, as they only have 2 all-stars, but they also have 3-4 players that are way more then role players.

I don't like or dislike Lebron, but the picture his haters paint is way shifted. Like indicating that he lost in the Finals last year, but failing to mention that it took 6 games to beat Cleveland, who was without 2 of their top 3 players.

 

[MWes11]

I love passionate, well thought out discussions like this. Keep up the great work fellas.

 

[Blueaz]

The so-called super team argument shows you either don't know NBA history or care only about the Decision. It's been debunked as First Take level garbage for years. Not even debatable, really. For example, you realize Kobe has never won a playoff series without a legit (and not, say, Jamaal Magloire in 2004) All Star big man? That Bird never won titles w/out McHale and Parrish? Magic with KAJ/Worthy? Jordan/Pippen?

Also, phrases like "team ball" and "one on one iso?" Either so vague as to be meaningless (lol at Lebron being, somehow, not about team ball, yet heavily criticized for being too sharing throughout his career) or just wrong or both.

Remember Jordan selfishly earning $30m in the 19 effin' 90s? Magic with a record (at the time) contract? Surely you remember Kobe playing for peanuts - tens of millions of dollars of peanuts - over the years? Let's look at Lebron - playing far (as in almost certainly > $100m in his career) below actual market value for years thanks to max contracts, and yet he's the one crippling his team by taking a discount from that below market salary to fit in to Miami's cap space? Maybe Cleveland in 2005 could have afforded another Larry Hughes type player if he'd taken a discount below his already severely discounted rookie contract (another imposed salary ceiling), because we all know unlimited money always leads to titles - just look at the Dolan Knicks, champions of the world, and the Phrokorov Nets, second best in NYC area!

If you want to criticize Lebron, start with actual things that matter, like not developing a post game until 2012, or losing his jump shot this year. You know, things that matter.

are you and bluemadison the same?

 

[LineSkiCat14]

Maybe this should have been visited 5 years ago.. when the West was REALLY whitewashing the East. It's balanced out a lot since then, with the only difference being the West being stronger at the very top.

I think you'll see this even out further in the next 5 years. Spurs are leering over the edge of a downfall, GSWs roster is worth like $2 billion so that won't last either. Rockets are hell bent on trying to blow ***. Lakers still in the pits.

Meanwhile, Celtics have an absurd number of trade chips and are on the rise, Cavs will still improve for a few years.. and that conference can only stack so many top5 picks before some teams just have to be good by default.. like the 76ers.

 

[Anon1712931820]

I can't understand why you keep calling Miami a "super team". They had 3 great players surrounded by a bunch of role players. I got news for you, that is pretty much the formula on every title winning team. Now, had Paul joined them, then I would understand the "super team", but most of the title winning teams are constructed the same way. Was the Spurs a "super team"? Duncan, Parker, Ginobili (sp?). Did Jordan not have Pippen and Grant, along with adding Rodman for the second series of titles? The Warriors are constructed a little different, as they only have 2 all-stars, but they also have 3-4 players that are way more then role players.

I don't like or dislike Lebron, but the picture his haters paint is way shifted. Like indicating that he lost in the Finals last year, but failing to mention that it took 6 games to beat Cleveland, who was without 2 of their top 3 players.

I call it a "super team" (notice the quotations) sort of in jest due to how much they hyped themselves. Not 1...not 2....yeah just two lol. They created a side show like they were the second coming of the Bulls and ended up 2 out of 4.

 

[Glenn's Take]

Surprised I've only seen travel mentioned once. A team that had to criss cross the United States for 4 straight series would be at a serious disadvantage. I know they aren't exactly flying commercial (UK uses the Heat team plane when they aren't using it and the guy I know that's been on it says it's incredibly tricked out) but jet lag is a real thing.

 

[Big_Blue79]

are you and bluemadison the same?

At a high enough level of abstraction, we are all the same, eh? But no.

 

[TruBluCatFan]

I call it a "super team" (notice the quotations) sort of in jest due to how much they hyped themselves. Not 1...not 2....yeah just two lol. They created a side show like they were the second coming of the Bulls and ended up 2 out of 4.

Preach it brother. If they can win 1/2 of the NBA titles possible then they don't even deserve to be talked about.

I know that's not really what you said but LeBron's Heat had a hell of a run regardless of how much douche baggery they exhibited with The Decision.

 

[Blue63Madison]

are you and bluemadison the same?

I'll take that as a compliment. [thumb2]

 

[Anon1712931820]

Preach it brother. If they can win 1/2 of the NBA titles possible then they don't even deserve to be talked about.

I know that's not really what you said but LeBron's Heat had a hell of a run regardless of how much douche baggery they exhibited with The Decision.

No doubt they had a great 4 year stretch, but that last part is what made it hard for me to root for them. Love D-Wade regardless of the schlacking he put on us in 2003 because he plays the game and that's it. He doesn't get involved in the BS and he doesn't try and coach the team or try to sound like the GM.

 

[Aike]

No reason for Eastern Conference owners to give up the current setup. As is, they know they will get one team in the finals.

Presumably, this setup also helps to balance the leagues. Free agents may be attracted to the East and the potentially easier road deep into the playoffs.

 

[weatherbird]

I call it a "super team" (notice the quotations) sort of in jest due to how much they hyped themselves. Not 1...not 2....yeah just two lol. They created a side show like they were the second coming of the Bulls and ended up 2 out of 4.

You mean like the Bulls that won 6 title in 13 years while Jordan was there?? You didn't think there was a good chance they would spend the first season learning how to play with each other?? That was basically a whole new team around Wade. And crying about the not 1, not 2, not 3 thing is like crying about UK fans who think they are gonna win the title most years. What did you expect them to do, say we will probably only win a couple? It was a press conference announcing the new signings. Just because ESPN and whoever decided to show that clip doesn't mean they were putting the rest of the league on notice or anything. Are you mad at our players when they say we are gonna win the title in the preseason press conferences?

I get it, we all get it. You hate lebron. Probably because you're a big Jordan fan, and he is/was the closest thing to knocking Jordan off the perch.

 

[Anon1712931820]

You mean like the Bulls that won 6 title in 13 years while Jordan was there?? You didn't think there was a good chance they would spend the first season learning how to play with each other?? That was basically a whole new team around Wade. And crying about the not 1, not 2, not 3 thing is like crying about UK fans who think they are gonna win the title most years. What did you expect them to do, say we will probably only win a couple? It was a press conference announcing the new signings. Just because ESPN and whoever decided to show that clip doesn't mean they were putting the rest of the league on notice or anything. Are you mad at our players when they say we are gonna win the title in the preseason press conferences?

I get it, we all get it. You hate lebron. Probably because you're a big Jordan fan, and he is/was the closest thing to knocking Jordan off the perch.

Your so far off I don't think you'll ever be able to come back to reality. My favorite player is/was/will always be Allen Iverson. Not a Jordan lover/hater and not a LeBron lover/hater. Has Cal ever made a statement like that about UK? No because he's not that stupid to set himself up. Jordan did win 6 in 13, but that is because his first few years in the league was spent adjusting and becoming the star he was on horrible teams. Jordan won SIX IN A ROW (half season in between doesn't count in anyone's eyes). Not only did he get there...he won. With a group including Pippen....and that's it....he won his first three and then won the last three with Pippen only again and Rodman rebounding and playing defense. Jordan never had the talent that LeBron has had around him in these 6 straight Finals appearances and he was playing against much better teams IMO. Jordan had three coaches his first three years and went to a horrible bulls franchise at the time. He really only played 12 seasons and won six straight titles and finals MVP awards his last six. LOL at trying to downplay Michael Jordan for ONLY winning 6 in 12 lol.

 

[HenryMuto]

NO

 

[hock15]

Would anyone really care if the Utah Jazz made the playoffs this year instead of the Pistons? I know It could have set up for a Warriors vs the Spurs or Thunder, but would that actually make the playoffs that much better? I dint think it would make that much of a difference in parity if that is what the league is trying to accomplish. The same teams would continue to win the championship.
Also, the argue that a great player doesn't need great teammates is an incredibly weak argument. Besides the 1994 Rockets with only Hakeem, all others teams to win the championship have had a star or at least two hall of fame players. Of course it takes multiple good players to win a championship.

 

[Saguaro Cat]

Would make the playoffs worse. Part of the excitement is when you get two teams that have met multiple times during the regular season in a series. Get some history and a temporary rivalry going. Like Pacers Knicks. Then add in ability to get some regional stuff like Dallas Oklahoma city, Houston San Antonio, bulls Pistons. Instead you'd have portland playing Miami in a seven game first round sites. That would be brutal to slog through.