Non-compete

[VilleCat_rivals377292]

Do you have one and can you get around them?

I signed one 10 years ago not thinking of ever leaving my company. Now I have an opportunity to make a lot more $ at a competitor.

Any advice?

 

[wildcatadam6]

Get a really good attorney

 

[UKserialkiller]

The Verizon guy now works for Sprint because he got a better deal. Use that to break the contract.

 

[Bill - Shy Cat]

The Verizon guy now works for Sprint because he got a better deal. Use that to break the contract.

Willy is spot on. However, he probably had to refrain from competing for a "reasonable" amount of time once he severed ties with Verizon. I"m guessing a year. If the contract is too restrictive, your attorney might be able to void it. It will cost you some big bucks to litigate.

 

[UKserialkiller]

Willy is spot on. However, he probably had to refrain from competing for a "reasonable" amount of time once he severed ties with Verizon. I"m guessing a year. If the contract is too restrictive, your attorney might be able to void it. It will cost you some big bucks to litigate.

Exactly, Bill. I would think it would all come down to what is reasonable.

The Verizon Guy defense if successfully done could rank it toward the top along with the great Chewbacca defense.

 

[Kooky Kats]

Do you have one and can you get around them?

I signed one 10 years ago not thinking of ever leaving my company. Now I have an opportunity to make a lot more $ at a competitor.

Any advice?

Get fired. Start shitting yourself immediately.

 

[Kooky Kats]

Lick your desk uncontrollably.
Go barefoot, with load in pants.
Use the word 'literally' twice in every spoken sentence.
Put gummy worms into each nostril before a big meeting.

 

[LadyCat92]

Really depends on the state you are in as to how enforceable they are. In California, they're no issue. In KY, I believe it depends on how restrictive the contract is. I have one that prevents me from going to a competitor for 1 year after I leave. A lot of it is whether or not you have accepted money to be stay with the company. If you have not accepted equity such as part ownership or something like RSUs, then they're not as enforceable.

 

[UKGrad93]

I know people that have gotten around them by working just outside a defined geographic area for a year. Maybe the company that wants to hire you has an office or address in another town.

 

[Chuckinden]

I was a Manager at a company that had a two year non-compete contract. A couple of employees went out to open their own shop and was aggressively after our business. The company sued, went to court and the judge ruled the former employees had to pay the company $10K and only allowed the company to enforce one year of the contract. Of course, that year was already gone and the former employees were out $10K and allowed to do what they wanted from that day forward.

Most companies will not pursue it unless you are causing a lot of damage. It is mainly there as a deterrent.

 

[VilleCat_rivals377292]

Pooping my pants sounds like the best option, thanks everybody!

 

[bluelifer]

Are the terms of your agreement unreasonable?

 

[TruBluCatFan]

KY law tends to be employee friendly in regards to non-compete. They must be reasonable in both length and location. If it's one year or less courts generally find that reasonable. Geographic boundaries are not as clear cut because of the factors are so different based on where you are.

 

[ukalumni00]

Get a good attorney and see if you can get around it. As others have mentioned state laws, etc vary and you need legal advice to figure out your options.

 

[Saguaro Cat]

I quit my job and moved out of state for a new one. On my first day, signing all the tax info, they hand me a non compete. I pretty much had no choice but to sign. I was told by someone later this made it unenforceable. I have no clue if that is true or not.

 

[Dore95]

I litigate restrictive covenant cases for a living, mainly in Florida but in other states too. I can't tell you how many times I've seen an employee go to work for a competitor in blatant violation of a n/c agreement and then claim they "always thought" that non-competes are unenforceable. Yes, there may be defenses available but non-competes are enforceable in most states.

You should consult with a lawyer before you take the new job. You also should put the new employer on notice of the n/c. The last thing you want to happen is have your new employer fire you right after they get a cease and desist letter from your old employer.

 

[UKserialkiller]

Pooping my pants sounds like the best option, thanks everybody!

Debatable. Not sure shitting your pants will be grounds for breaking the contract.

 

[KingOfBBN]

How would they even know where you were working next?

 

[legalbeagle123]

In Kentucky, they are generally enforceable. However, the length and geographic limitations are always subject to court review. The type of business involved is also a factor to consider. Courts have the power to use the "blue pencil rule," which means that even if a judge finds that the covenants are too restrictive, the terms can be modified rather than invalidated entirely to still provide the employer protection.

 

[Hank Camacho]

Go talk to an attorney before you say a word to the potential competitor or discuss it with any one at the current business.

In other words, keep your damn mouth shut until you talk to a lawyer and quit blabbing on a message board.

 

[Kooky Kats]

Debatable. Not sure shitting your pants will be grounds for breaking the contract.

********. The ripest of doodies nestled betwixt his bulbous *** cheeks will be the camel's straw.

I say, go for it!

 

[bluelifer]

How would they even know where you were working next?

If a company feels the need to have this type of contract, they will definitely concern themselves with where your next job is. It's not hard to get the info.

 

[KingOfBBN]

If a company feels the need to have this type of contract, they will definitely concern themselves with where your next job is. It's not hard to get the info.

I'd be surprised man power and resources would be spent on such a thing if this company was busy and successful.

If they suspect it, maybe. But I highly doubt they go searching where every ex employee is working.

 

[TruBluCatFan]

I'd be surprised man power and resources would be spent on such a thing if this company was busy and successful.

If they suspect it, maybe. But I highly doubt they go searching where every ex employee is working.

You do realize they don't make every employer sign non-competes, right. Only high level or employees with access to company confidential information or trade secrets usually sign.

And it isn't hard to find out for those type of people.

Plus if an employee subject to a non-compete leaves the first question HR or their manager is going to ask is where are you going to work next? If you refuse to tell them that will immediately set off the warning signal.

The cashier at Mickey D's and Wally World aren't being asked to sign.

 

[bluelifer]

I'd be surprised man power and resources would be spent on such a thing if this company was busy and successful.

If they suspect it, maybe. But I highly doubt they go searching where every ex employee is working.

You don't have to hire a P.I. to find out where someone works. All it takes is asking around or a quick check on social media in most cases. Like I said, if they didn't care enough to go looking, they wouldn't have made you sign one to begin with.

 

[KingOfBBN]

I litigate restrictive covenant cases for a living, mainly in Florida but in other states too. I can't tell you how many times I've seen an employee go to work for a competitor in blatant violation of a n/c agreement and then claim they "always thought" that non-competes are unenforceable. Yes, there may be defenses available but non-competes are enforceable in most states.

You should consult with a lawyer before you take the new job. You also should put the new employer on notice of the n/c. The last thing you want to happen is have your new employer fire you right after they get a cease and desist letter from your old employer.

Good post.

Am I wrong in thinking that the offer at the new place won't be on the table long enough to get the attorney to have everything sorted out with the non-compete clause?

I can't imagine the company letting it happen especially if word gets around. I think the possibility you pointed out about the new company possibly terminating him is reason enough to be very cautious.

Sucks though because it's BS to enforce those. I understand a confidentiality agreement but not dictating where someone can work.

 

[wildcatsboston1984_rivals]

Why poop your pants when you can just go piss in your boss's office right in front of him?

 

[legalbeagle123]

Sucks though because it's BS to enforce those. I understand a confidentiality agreement but not dictating where someone can work.

People are capital just like products and services. Companies have a right to protect that. Don't want to be subject to a non-compete? Don't sign it.

 

[KingOfBBN]

People are capital just like products and services. Companies have a right to protect that. Don't want to be subject to a non-compete? Don't sign it.

I get it but you're not given much of a choice. If the only way you get the job is if you sign it, then you sign it. I doubt the OP could foresee 10 years into the future.

With that said, his situation doesn't sound very optimistic, which I'm sure will cause resentment.

 

[bluelifer]

I doubt the OP could foresee 10 years into the future.

Maybe it sucks, but frankly, that's his fault. The company he works for had enough foresight to know that a well trained person in his position could be potentially harmful if he took all of that training and knowledge to a competitor down the street.

Companies spend years, decades even, developing their products, services, and maybe most importantly, relationships. When you go to work for them you gain access to those resources. Once the knowledge is passed along to you, you become an asset to the company. Non-competes are one of the ways they protect that asset.

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

I get it but you're not given much of a choice. If the only way you get the job is if you sign it, then you sign it. I doubt the OP could foresee 10 years into the future.

With that said, his situation doesn't sound very optimistic, which I'm sure will cause resentment.

I think they are perfectly reasonable, depending on the kind of work you are talking about. I own a consulting business. Why would I hire an employee and introduce that person to my clients and let them build a relationship without some protection against the person deciding they might be able to walk away at some point and take the clients with them that I introduced them to. I think any sales position, consulting business, etc., should have non-compete contracts with the employees that have relationships with customers. Those employees would not have the relationship or access to any of those clients if the company had not hired them and given them access to clients in the first place. People should not be able exploit that situation. I also think people who have sensitive information or proprietary information that could be used to compete against the company should also have to sign one. There is probably no reason for your typical employee to sign one.

 

[Ahnan E. Muss]

Do you have one and can you get around them?

I signed one 10 years ago not thinking of ever leaving my company. Now I have an opportunity to make a lot more $ at a competitor.

Any advice?

Is this Kevin Durant? I thought you already made your decision.

 

[TruBluCatFan]

I get it but you're not given much of a choice. If the only way you get the job is if you sign it, then you sign it. I doubt the OP could foresee 10 years into the future.

With that said, his situation doesn't sound very optimistic, which I'm sure will cause resentment.

OP didn't say this so it may not apply to him but I've seen it in other cases but how did this new job offer come about? Did a competitor recruit him to get access to his knowledge of how his competitor conducts operations, etc? Did OP actively look for a job with a competitor of his current employer knowing that he had a non-compete?

both of these matter a great deal.

 

[Get Buckets]

Are you taking clients? If you aren't causing them damages what could they sue you for? They can't keep you from working.

 

[TruBluCatFan]

Are you taking clients? If you aren't causing them damages what could they sue you for? They can't keep you from working.

Wow, you could not be more wrong. They can absolutely keep him from working per the terms of the non-compete. He can work in another industry or outside the geographical area designated in the agreement but otherwise they can keep him from working.

 

[KingOfBBN]

I think they are perfectly reasonable, depending on the kind of work you are talking about. I own a consulting business. Why would I hire an employee and introduce that person to my clients and let them build a relationship without some protection against the person deciding they might be able to walk away at some point and take the clients with them that I introduced them to. I think any sales position, consulting business, etc., should have non-compete contracts with the employees that have relationships with customers. Those employees would not have the relationship or access to any of those clients if the company had not hired them and given them access to clients in the first place. People should not be able exploit that situation. I also think people who have sensitive information or proprietary information that could be used to compete against the company should also have to sign one. There is probably no reason for your typical employee to sign one.

Good post and yeah, completely dependent upon the industry you're working in...

 

[Get Buckets]

Wow, you could not be more wrong. They can absolutely keep him from working per the terms of the non-compete. He can work in another industry or outside the geographical area designated in the agreement but otherwise they can keep him from working.

I would have to be paid a ridiculous amount of consideration to ever sign anything enforceable that would prevent me from working in my industry for another employer.

 

[Deeeefense]

Read the agreement. Non competes are written for a specific period of time. It's very unusual for one to go 5 year much less 10. Depending on how the agreement was written, there is a very good chance you are not obligated anymore since it has been such a great length of time. Even if it is written for 10 years if you have extenuating circumstances chances are you can challenge it and win.

 

[TruBluCatFan]

I would have to be paid a ridiculous amount of consideration to ever sign anything enforceable that would prevent me from working in my industry for another employer.

Nobody will make you sign one and that's your choice but typically employees who are asked to sign them are very well compensated for a reason.

 

[TruBluCatFan]

Read the agreement. Non competes are written for a specific period of time. It's very unusual for one to go 5 year much less 10. Depending on how the agreement was written, there is a very good chance you are not obligated anymore since it has been such a great length of time. Even if it is written for 10 years if you have extenuating circumstances chances are you can challenge it and win.

True but usually the time limit is from the time you LEAVE your current employer not when you start. Otherwise most non-competes would be useless.